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Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2005.06.02 12:19:00 -
[1]
There is currently a problem with sucide pirates in high sec space. There is a problem with pirates moving though high sec space being protected by CONCORD on the way to set up the next gate gank. There is a simple fix for this.
Create an "outlaw tag" that is applied to any player that attacks another player with out being in a "war" condition. The only change this would cause is that the "outlaw" player is no longer defended by CONCORD or any of the NPC units. The rules for CONCORD and the rest of the NPCs still apply but now player can attack "outlaws" without waiting for the outlaws getting the first shot. This adds PvP for the pirates, lets the empire players defend, and evens the playing field for everyone.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Typherin laidai
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Posted - 2005.06.02 12:21:00 -
[2]
You just posted virtually the exact same thing in a different thread
is this really needed ?
Typh Typherin LaiDai Care Negotitations Expert level 5
'Give me a position of power and I'l abuse it in an instant' |
Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2005.06.02 12:22:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Typherin laidai You just posted virtually the exact same thing in a different thread
is this really needed ?
Typh
Yes, because I am submitting that this as a stand alone change would do much to add risk to empire piracy, help bounty hunters, and even the game out.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Pagefault
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Posted - 2005.06.02 12:25:00 -
[4]
What u are asking for is called "security rating", and when it drops below -5.0 u can be attacked always and everywhere. And after attacking a player u can be attacked for 15minutes by everyone, no matter of sec rating. what else do u want?
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MutationZ
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Posted - 2005.06.02 12:28:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Pagefault What u are asking for is called "security rating", and when it drops below -5.0 u can be attacked always and everywhere. And after attacking a player u can be attacked for 15minutes by everyone, no matter of sec rating. what else do u want?
That combined with criminal flagging.
/me hugs the dev's - they fixed it already
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Typherin laidai
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Posted - 2005.06.02 12:29:00 -
[6]
I personally see no problem in it as I cant go in high sec anyway. But im not sure how the rest of the playerbase will see it..
Pirating is allready a proffesion in the game that is lacking in available features. this idea might be all well and good for older players but how about noobs ?
Noob wants to be pirate and is flying around belts and has a pop at someone ... he's in a frig.
You want him now to be open cannon fodder to everyone in the game as well as the 15 minutes he has to wait for sentrys ?
Seems a little harsh.
Dont flame im 'attempting' to b constructive
Typherin LaiDai Typherin LaiDai Care Negotitations Expert level 5
'Give me a position of power and I'l abuse it in an instant' |
Typherin laidai
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Posted - 2005.06.02 12:30:00 -
[7]
Originally by: MutationZ
Originally by: Pagefault What u are asking for is called "security rating", and when it drops below -5.0 u can be attacked always and everywhere. And after attacking a player u can be attacked for 15minutes by everyone, no matter of sec rating. what else do u want?
That combined with criminal flagging.
/me hugs the dev's - they fixed it already
I think he means an indefinate 'you can kill me now' flag untill the ship is lost or whatever
Typh Typherin LaiDai Care Negotitations Expert level 5
'Give me a position of power and I'l abuse it in an instant' |
Avon
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Posted - 2005.06.02 12:33:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Miri Tirzan There is currently a problem with sucide pirates in high sec space. There is a problem with pirates moving though high sec space being protected by CONCORD on the way to set up the next gate gank. There is a simple fix for this.
Create an "outlaw tag" that is applied to any player that attacks another player with out being in a "war" condition. The only change this would cause is that the "outlaw" player is no longer defended by CONCORD or any of the NPC units. The rules for CONCORD and the rest of the NPCs still apply but now player can attack "outlaws" without waiting for the outlaws getting the first shot. This adds PvP for the pirates, lets the empire players defend, and evens the playing field for everyone.
How long does this tag last? How does it combat war declarations as a form of piracy? Does it apply to miners who shoot ore thieves in low sec space? Does it apply to people who attack eachother in 0.0?
Game mechanics are a poor solution because they are unable to apply judgement, only rules. ______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2005.06.02 12:36:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Pagefault What u are asking for is called "security rating", and when it drops below -5.0 u can be attacked always and everywhere. And after attacking a player u can be attacked for 15minutes by everyone, no matter of sec rating. what else do u want?
Nope, I am talking not talking about what it takes for the NPC's to take action, I am talking about what allows the lawful players to defend against sucide pirates and regular empire pirates that dont have a -5 rating. Right now there is no defense against sucide pirates and it gets old watching regular gate gankers traveling though the empire space being protected by CONCORD on the way to set up thier next gate ganking and knowing that if you fire on them... we CONCORD is going to gank you.
So, let them be an outlaw... but put them outside of the laws protection also! That way the lawful players (role playing you understand) can defend and bounty hunters and track them down and kill them!
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Mattduk
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Posted - 2005.06.02 12:37:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Typherin laidai You just posted virtually the exact same thing in a different thread
is this really needed ?
Typh
You're a bit of a wally aren't you?
So what if (s)he did?!
I've been reading these forums all lunchtime, and so far I have yet to hear anything constructive from you! I've ignored it so far, but your arrogance and retardness is getting beyond a joke.
One could almost accuse you of posting the same thing in every thread you visit.
Let people just question the questionable
End rant.
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Gerome Doutrande
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Posted - 2005.06.02 12:42:00 -
[11]
alternatively you could have cans of your ship you loose in 0.5+ locked to yourself (you could be able to manually allow others to access them) or concord confiscate the items for you.
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Typherin laidai
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Posted - 2005.06.02 12:48:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Mattduk
Originally by: Typherin laidai You just posted virtually the exact same thing in a different thread
is this really needed ?
Typh
You're a bit of a wally aren't you?
So what if (s)he did?!
I've been reading these forums all lunchtime, and so far I have yet to hear anything constructive from you! I've ignored it so far, but your arrogance and retardness is getting beyond a joke.
One could almost accuse you of posting the same thing in every thread you visit.
Let people just question the questionable
End rant.
umm even my posts in this thread are constructive...
It was a question to him ... which he answered. And which i pointed out views of without any flames/abuse.
explain to me how that isn't constructive ?
what exactly have you added to the post ?
Typherin Typherin LaiDai Care Negotitations Expert level 5
'Give me a position of power and I'l abuse it in an instant' |
Meutrich
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Posted - 2005.06.02 12:52:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Gerome Doutrande alternatively you could have cans of your ship you loose in 0.5+ locked to yourself (you could be able to manually allow others to access them)
I support this idea. If not .5, at least .8+
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2005.06.02 12:57:00 -
[14]
Erm, you're suggesting something that is already in the game. It's called a criminal flag. Unless I misread/understood what you wrote, that's exactly what you're asking for, and it's already ingame. -
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2005.06.02 13:12:00 -
[15]
The guy is a little bit confused about EVE - probably a new player that was ganked 1-2 days ago.
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Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2005.06.02 13:42:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Viceroy Erm, you're suggesting something that is already in the game. It's called a criminal flag. Unless I misread/understood what you wrote, that's exactly what you're asking for, and it's already ingame.
No, I am asking for something different. The criminal flag sends CONCOND after the offender and as a side benifit, the vic can also go after the attackee. Let that remain, but mainly that is the NPC response to an "outlaws" action. What is needed is a long term flag that says this player is not protected by the NPCs, not that the NPCs will attack them. This lets (and we are talking RPing here) the lawful citizens defend themselfs from the muggers and pirates. It means that while your a pirate, you don't get the benifits of protection from the NPC cops from the citizens while you get ready to mug them.
So, these are not the same thing. The criminal flag is the NPC response to an illegal act regardless of what a player vic does. The "outlaw flag" says that any action on an outlaw player is outside the security/NPC process when initiated by one of the "lawful" citizens.
So, be a pirate, the first shot is free since no one knows your going to be a pirate, but after that your flagged as an outlaw and those that don't want outlaws around can "run you out of town" if they are able. But this put the end to multiple sucide pirating in high sec space with no defense. Lets the profession of bounty hunter actually be a profession, and makes being a pirate in "secure" space what it should be... risky.
So, pirates make a lot of ISK. This just makes the reward = the risk!
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Tananda Vaakaja
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Posted - 2005.06.02 13:45:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Tananda Vaakaja on 02/06/2005 14:02:46 IMHO - If you achieve the much vaunted "Wanted" status with a bounty on your butt, then you should be fair game to anyone in .5 and up. It's only fair, people with good standings are open season when we go to .4 and below, lets share the love and let those with the beautiful "Skull and Crossbonezz" tags on their characters feel the love of the playerbase. Would spice things up tremendously, even the playing field and stop a LOT of people whining. Lets face it, if you've gotten the "wanted" status with a bounty... you've bloody well EARNED it and should reap the just rewards. Makes perfect sense in gameplay... quick edit... IF the player with the wanted tag is ineed attacked in .5 and up space then they can fight back without concord responding. All other PvP rules apply, WHEN they are attacked. If no one attacks a wanted character then nothing happens as per normal. The only chance is that they CAN be hunted when they take the risk of going to .5 and up space.
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Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2005.06.02 13:49:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Lifewire The guy is a little bit confused about EVE - probably a new player that was ganked 1-2 days ago.
So speaks the clueless.
Dude,
I have been around in this game since Beta 4. Done most professions in the game. Spent my time in O.O had my wars with m0o and SI. Done alliance wars, done PvP, done PvE, mined, produced, run missions... and piracy is the least risk activity in the game.
The last good pirate I played agaist was SI. The best were The Gang. m0o was impressive but most of you just exploited the game mechanics until CCP had to change the game into something that does not begin equal what it started as. So whine me a river, but your in the most carebear, low risk profession in the game, but I do thank you for taking the time to log in and insult me.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Karrimdra
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Posted - 2005.06.02 13:51:00 -
[19]
He means vigilanties.
From nothing to something in just one corp! |
Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2005.06.02 16:49:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Tananda Vaakaja Edited by: Tananda Vaakaja on 02/06/2005 14:02:46 IMHO - If you achieve the much vaunted "Wanted" status with a bounty on your butt, then you should be fair game to anyone in .5 and up. It's only fair, people with good standings are open season when we go to .4 and below, lets share the love and let those with the beautiful "Skull and Crossbonezz" tags on their characters feel the love of the playerbase. Would spice things up tremendously, even the playing field and stop a LOT of people whining. Lets face it, if you've gotten the "wanted" status with a bounty... you've bloody well EARNED it and should reap the just rewards. Makes perfect sense in gameplay... quick edit... IF the player with the wanted tag is ineed attacked in .5 and up space then they can fight back without concord responding. All other PvP rules apply, WHEN they are attacked. If no one attacks a wanted character then nothing happens as per normal. The only chance is that they CAN be hunted when they take the risk of going to .5 and up space.
Yeah! Someone got it!
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Bhaal
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Posted - 2005.06.02 17:02:00 -
[21]
Quote: Originally by: Lifewire -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The guy is a little bit confused about EVE - probably a new player that was ganked 1-2 days ago. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So speaks the clueless.
Dude,
I have been around in this game since Beta 4. Done most professions in the game. Spent my time in O.O had my wars with m0o and SI. Done alliance wars, done PvP, done PvE, mined, produced, run missions... and piracy is the least risk activity in the game.
The last good pirate I played agaist was SI. The best were The Gang. m0o was impressive but most of you just exploited the game mechanics until CCP had to change the game into something that does not begin equal what it started as. So whine me a river, but your in the most carebear, low risk profession in the game, but I do thank you for taking the time to log in and insult me.
can you say spankage? ------------------------------------------------ "for piece sakes!" |
DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.06.02 17:06:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Meutrich
Originally by: Gerome Doutrande alternatively you could have cans of your ship you loose in 0.5+ locked to yourself (you could be able to manually allow others to access them)
I support this idea. If not .5, at least .8+
Of course you would, coming from the guy who claimed he logs in 0.0 when a hostile comes in system
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=186761
Originally by: Gerome Doutrande alternatively you could have cans of your ship you loose in 0.5+ locked to yourself (you could be able to manually allow others to access them) or concord confiscate the items for you.
Um, so if im at war with someone, and i kill them in .5+, I dont get their loot?
Worst idea ever, whats the point? If you attack someone in .5+, concord kills you. You already have an "outlaw status."
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Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2005.06.04 21:42:00 -
[23]
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Originally by: Meutrich
Originally by: Gerome Doutrande alternatively you could have cans of your ship you loose in 0.5+ locked to yourself (you could be able to manually allow others to access them)
I support this idea. If not .5, at least .8+
Of course you would, coming from the guy who claimed he logs in 0.0 when a hostile comes in system
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=186761
Originally by: Gerome Doutrande alternatively you could have cans of your ship you loose in 0.5+ locked to yourself (you could be able to manually allow others to access them) or concord confiscate the items for you.
Um, so if im at war with someone, and i kill them in .5+, I dont get their loot?
Worst idea ever, whats the point? If you attack someone in .5+, concord kills you. You already have an "outlaw status."
No what I am suggesting is that if you are not at war with someone, and they are not a pirate or criminally tagged, and you attack them within empire space, then you earn a pirate tag. The pirate tag would do nothing with CONCORD, but what it would do would be to allow any other player attack you without a sec hit within EMPIRE and them getting a criminal flag.
So if your at war and kill some one and take their stuff, more power to you.
I also think that the sec rating of the place you attack some one should vary the lenght of time that the pirate tag stays with you. On top of that, I think that the pirate tag stays with the character slot, so recycling the character only gets a new character with a pirate tag.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Zerodragoon
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Posted - 2005.06.04 21:55:00 -
[24]
And what about someone who accidently hits someone from a miss target? Pretty common occurance when your in a empire war, little bit of lag on the overview and what you thought you clicked on isn't what you end up shooting. -------
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Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2005.06.04 22:45:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Zerodragoon And what about someone who accidently hits someone from a miss target? Pretty common occurance when your in a empire war, little bit of lag on the overview and what you thought you clicked on isn't what you end up shooting.
Sounds like a really good reason to make sure about who your firing on.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Unbeleever
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Posted - 2005.06.05 02:14:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Unbeleever on 05/06/2005 02:17:07 Edited by: Unbeleever on 05/06/2005 02:15:31
Originally by: Miri Tirzan
Originally by: Lifewire The guy is a little bit confused about EVE - probably a new player that was ganked 1-2 days ago.
So speaks the clueless.
Dude,
I have been around in this game since Beta 4. Done most professions in the game. Spent my time in O.O had my wars with m0o and SI. Done alliance wars, done PvP, done PvE, mined, produced, run missions... and piracy is the least risk activity in the game.
The last good pirate I played agaist was SI. The best were The Gang. m0o was impressive but most of you just exploited the game mechanics until CCP had to change the game into something that does not begin equal what it started as. So whine me a river, but your in the most carebear, low risk profession in the game, but I do thank you for taking the time to log in and insult me.
"The most carebear, low risk proffesion in the game"
Wow did they put t2 rails on the veld roids in the last patch? Becouse from where i sit it aint low risk m8
To your idea, in theory sounds good if this where a dif mmorpg. The mechanics you are refering to are there already, and your idea of the "outlaw tag" imho would further segragate the eve community of empire huggers and low sec peeps. This is not a flame but dont think it would work and imho dont think that the suicide attacks are a epedemic situation.
Question have you ever tried to pirate?
P.S I cant spell for doo doo
For me... Group therapy is a 30 pack of BEER!! Then all of the voices are satisfied. |
Bubba Fett
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Posted - 2005.06.05 03:56:00 -
[27]
That's a crazy idea. What you're suggesting would be like getting a biker gang tatoo and going into a bar owned by a competing gang.
EVE combat is more on par with schoolyard bullys. You pick on someone smaller and weaker. If someone your size or bigger shows up you run and hide under the teachers skirt yelling that you're being picked on. An of course once the criminal flag wears off you're the teachers little angel again.
Why would pirates want it any different?
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Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2005.06.05 12:22:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Bubba Fett That's a crazy idea. What you're suggesting would be like getting a biker gang tatoo and going into a bar owned by a competing gang.
EVE combat is more on par with schoolyard bullys. You pick on someone smaller and weaker. If someone your size or bigger shows up you run and hide under the teachers skirt yelling that you're being picked on. An of course once the criminal flag wears off you're the teachers little angel again.
Why would pirates want it any different?
Because there is no way to currently deal with pirates in side of empires. You cannot shoot them or you, the "honest citizen" loose security standing and get ganked by CONCORD. The pirates dont care about security standing, they just gank citizen then go spend a few days chaining NPCs to raise the sec rating so they can do it again. It is even worse with the sucide pirates. You cannot defend at all against them.... and like we saw in one thread, trading a few 5 mill ships for a 250 mill cargo is good for the pirates.
So let the pirates earn a tag that keeps CONCORD from protecting them. I am all for there being pirates in the game but to quote "risk vs reward" and so far, I see no risk in being a pirate in the empire.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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