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deviantC
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Posted - 2005.06.02 19:48:00 -
[31]
Originally by: chillz Only allow characters with 0.0 or above security status be recycled.
Boy, that would really torque some people!
I still like the idea of showing the age of the account, not the relationships between the account characters.
Alts rock, but what about the children?
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Alain Josviar
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Posted - 2005.06.02 19:56:00 -
[32]
"So what does alt genocide really accomplish?"
It brings a glaring lack of accountability of one's actions into the game. You want to be an ore thief/pirate/market scammer/ . . . . then live with your choices. But of course the hypocritical sociopaths will always balk at the notion.
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SinBin
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Posted - 2005.06.02 20:02:00 -
[33]
Originally by: aeti just have an extra tab when you show info on people next to bio/standings/employment history etc that lists all the alts on that account
problem solved :|
100% agree ccp should use some kind of massive ingame votes to sort decicition like this 1 very fast.
" people would randomly suicide the alts or wardec them if possible just to hurt the main "
Yes thats the point your using your alt to aviod the trouble your started your still the same person, blow storyline ccp do it all the time. _______________________________________
Ill shutup the day CCP remove bookmarks |
SinBin
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Posted - 2005.06.02 20:06:00 -
[34]
wow iv had a moment of clarity.
Lets go back to being able to train skill on all ya alts at the same time then your have 3 worth wile players per account & wont wanna refine um down.
BUT big but to save ccp a fortune no more movnig alts to other accounts, allways stay together in 1 account or people will ebay like mad. _______________________________________
Ill shutup the day CCP remove bookmarks |
Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.06.02 21:56:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Claude Leon
Originally by: Corvus Dove As much as I hate alts, I can't trash them anymore.
I say this because as I'm getting lower and lower sec, it's getting irritating having to send my corpm8s to do shopping in high sec.
The problem with this is that people who use shuttle/hauler alts to do their shopping, since they can't reach the market otherwise, would be screwed. If you ID'd the alts to everyone's main, people would randomly suicide the alts or wardec them if possible just to hurt the main.
The problem for this is not only gameplay, but plotline. That's like offing some random guy in Brazil because you think he's the reincarnation of the guy who knocked up your sister in Rhode Island.
Waa? Face the actions of your choices. If you can't shop in empire space then tough.
Again, I don't disagree with your point that you should have to take all aspects of your lifestyle and deal with them. Miners should deal with the fact that they pretty much exist to people like me for the purpose of paying me ISK or being horribly killed, and we should accept the fact that we can't shop in high-sec.
The problem is, you people only ever sell anything worth having in high-sec. Even on the Market channels. "Malls" like Yulai are the worst of the problem, because they dominate the regional market.
So, while the idea itself is sound, the implementation is not. You'd end up with all this stuff for sale, but only 1/3rd of the people that used to buy it still buying. We PvPers go through named and T2 shield mods and ships like they come out of PEZ dispensers; losing us on the market would totally kill your business.
I'd say that's a good thing, because then you'd HAVE to leave high-sec, but the carebears won't. They'd rather be flat broke, safe, and quit the game because it isn't working their way than risk something to make the real money. "You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!" |
Noriath
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Posted - 2005.06.02 22:05:00 -
[36]
Get rid of alts and especially those damn trial accounts. Or at least limit the number of trial accounts someone can make, since the internet today doesn't exactly place a limit on the amount of email adresses someone has...
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Moghwai
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Posted - 2005.06.02 22:12:00 -
[37]
it wouldnt kill Market, in fact it could refresh some of the Dead parts of it. Finaly there would be a use for Corps that deliver stuff to deep Space. And finaly it could be possible to somewhat revenge as a carebear by cutting of Supply lines.
Face it, there is no legit usage for alts. Their only usage is for Spying, circumventing the Sec Rating Penalitys, Ripping of Corps, Flamming/Trolling Anonym, Scamming People, Steal Ore ore High Sec Ganking....
And shouldnt People interact more with other People. I heard many of your professional PvP`ers suggest People to interact more with others, sounds like a good suggestion. For ALL the Playerbase.
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Jackyl
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Posted - 2005.06.02 22:14:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Alain Josviar Why they included them in the first place is beyond my understanding.
That first line said it all. Im going to guess that you had a problem and didnt understand how to either solve it or deal with it. Alt.s have their place, good and bad; just like you.
If you don't where you're going, any road will take you there. |
Wendat Huron
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Posted - 2005.06.02 22:14:00 -
[39]
There's market alts, those 25 extra orders sure come in handy.
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.06.02 22:29:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Moghwai it wouldnt kill Market, in fact it could refresh some of the Dead parts of it. Finaly there would be a use for Corps that deliver stuff to deep Space. And finaly it could be possible to somewhat revenge as a carebear by cutting of Supply lines.
Face it, there is no legit usage for alts. Their only usage is for Spying, circumventing the Sec Rating Penalitys, Ripping of Corps, Flamming/Trolling Anonym, Scamming People, Steal Ore ore High Sec Ganking....
And shouldnt People interact more with other People. I heard many of your professional PvP`ers suggest People to interact more with others, sounds like a good suggestion. For ALL the Playerbase.
Spies, corp thieving, scamming, stealing ore, and high-sec gankings are all legit by EVE mechanics and Dev decisions.
Market is a dangerous thing to frack with. We learned this with Lvl4 Missions. If you kill off alts, incorporate an NPC delivery service that ups the cost of the purchase (shipping). PC's just can't be trusted not to run off with the goods and I'd certainly pay the extra and wait 2 hours to know that my module will automatically make it both safely to me and without me having to do 13 jumps to get it. "You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!" |
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Et alii
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Posted - 2005.06.02 22:36:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Moghwai
Face it, there is no legit usage for alts. Their only usage is for Spying, circumventing the Sec Rating Penalitys, Ripping of Corps, Flamming/Trolling Anonym, Scamming People, Steal Ore ore High Sec Ganking....
So these things are not legit in your opinion then ? Build all t1 items perfect. Build about any t2 item ingame. Do perfect refines. Mine in a BS or Barge. Do lvl 3 missions with ease.
As that is what this 9m SP ALT can do / does.
Seriously think before u speak or u might end up looking stupid.
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Embattle
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Posted - 2005.06.02 22:43:00 -
[42]
I would like to see alts removed so you could only use one character per account........although I should point out that CCP is unlikely to do so ;) Your Miner II perfectly blows up in its mount, wrecking for 900000000 damage. |
Cylynex
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Posted - 2005.06.02 22:49:00 -
[43]
I would like to see something happen too....these "ban alts" threads stop appearing.
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Mrissa Easeah
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Posted - 2005.06.02 23:01:00 -
[44]
Um ... no thankyou.
I can afford only one account atm, and the current situation is peachy. Multiple accounts in my case would be pointless as I multitask very badly. Voice, typing in 3 chat windows, flying my ship, and managing mail and other contacts is about my limit.
My main, even with 21million skillpoints, isn't even my best combat pilot, oddly enough, so if you nuked my alts you'd basically destroy my 70% PVP capability outright, so guess how your bright idea sounds to me?
Losing alts for purposes of nuking dumb forum posts? Well, second accounts (mining accounts, etc.) can do pretty much the same thing anyways.
Losing alts for purposes of cutting back on cheap, disposable character ganks? Well, if its not a main doing the 1.0 space gank, then its an exploit. If not, then its fair game (and though I believe its a lame tactic, its still a legit lame tactic).
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NanoRunner
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Posted - 2005.06.02 23:37:00 -
[45]
In a game like this, where your 1 character can be ANYTHING ALL THE TIME, there is no need for alts, the only feasible reason and the reason CCP prolly added more than 1 slot is if more than 1 people play on 1 account. IE me and my kid play the game, he can have his character i have mine.
Other than that there is no reason at all. Like the big mouth said earlier he has alts with 9mill/4mill/4mill SP, you cannot train at the same time so what is the point? You dont need to make a "miner" alt because your main could train mining just the same as an alt blah blah blah. You can save a trivial amount of time with starting stats, but then loose trivial time if you train the learning skills on all alts so it prolly offsets itself.
Alts are a big problem in this game only because of what the players want the game to be. IE You want hardcore pirate or pvp rulesets and limited protected area and people to be in 0.0 space, but you want to avoid all accountabilty by being able to get the good safe stuff with an alt. Or you wanna be a pirate or thief but use an alt to protect your main.
We had this happen one time some guy used an alt to join a noobie corp, would use it to locate these people then use another character to come and pk them. Sure this can be done with second accounts, but it is more limited. We cant limit how many accounts people have but again not many people are gonna keep 5 accounts active just to do most of the stuff these arses do with alts.
Again I have yet to see someone post a REAL reason for needing an alt, that keep swithin the spirit of the game. IE posting you use an alt to check prices somewhere etc your short cutting an aspect of the game being regional markets thus your point is no valid.
IF you say you have an alt miner you park in high sec space, again you are circumventing a part of the game, being you dont want to have ot mine in dangerous areas even if you choose that to be the area you exist in, and are too lazy to fly back and forth. So your point don;t count, and infact you exemplify the problem.
Will it ever be fixed? Uhm doubt it it is far to late. Maybe the best you can hope is account wide accountabilty, like shared SecStatus across the account not per character, the idea being the account = the player not the character. Longer delete time can help and should be there really IMHO.
This is not a game that has limits on what any character can do so it make no sense to have alts to experience different aspects of the game.
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MadGaz
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Posted - 2005.06.02 23:38:00 -
[46]
Leave alts, just stop them from posting on the forum, you designate 1 char per account to be able to post and you cant change it unless that char gets deleted. ------------------------------------------
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Cmdr Sy
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Posted - 2005.06.02 23:52:00 -
[47]
What is the backstory role-play explanation for the existence of alts, anyway? I heard once that there was supposed to be one somewhere, like capsuleers creating servants for themselves or something. Anyone know where I can find this, or is it just a rumour?
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Sharilyn
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Posted - 2005.06.03 01:02:00 -
[48]
First one to go should be Alain Josviar an Obvious alt if there ever was one
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Neurotic Cat
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Posted - 2005.06.03 01:37:00 -
[49]
Don't kill the Alts. They have uses.
But CCP should include the name of all 3 characters on the show-info bio. Keep the alts, but don't let people hide behind them. It's the anonymity that makes alts the evil scourge of the universe.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it. One day maybe CCP will listen.
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Riddari
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Posted - 2005.06.03 01:37:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Riddari on 03/06/2005 01:37:59
Originally by: NanoRunner Like the big mouth said earlier he has alts with 9mill/4mill/4mill SP, you cannot train at the same time so what is the point? You dont need to make a "miner" alt because your main could train mining just the same as an alt blah blah blah. You can save a trivial amount of time with starting stats, but then loose trivial time if you train the learning skills on all alts so it prolly offsets itself.
...
This is not a game that has limits on what any character can do so it make no sense to have alts to experience different aspects of the game.
Each of them explores different facets of the game, unconnected to each other.
Riddari is the versatile character who can do just about everything (including being called.. a big mouth) with his 28m skill points.
My other characters allow me to enjoy EVE in different groups doing different things.
I don't care if one of them is an absolutely pathetic fighter and another a horrible horrible candidate for mining and industry.
They live their own lives, not connected to each other and not connected to Riddari.
That makes the game even more enjoyable to me.
¼©¼ a history |
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Riddari
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Posted - 2005.06.03 01:38:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Neurotic Cat But CCP should include the name of all 3 characters on the show-info bio. Keep the alts, but don't let people hide behind them. It's the anonymity that makes alts the evil scourge of the universe.
No
¼©¼ a history |
Neurotic Cat
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Posted - 2005.06.03 01:40:00 -
[52]
Quote: No
You argument is weak. You offer nothing to enhance game play.
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Riddari
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Posted - 2005.06.03 01:42:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Neurotic Cat
Quote: No
You argument is weak. You offer nothing to enhance game play.
Read the post above my No
¼©¼ a history |
Neurotic Cat
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Posted - 2005.06.03 01:44:00 -
[54]
Quote: Read the post above my No
No. Doesn't help. Your argument remains weak. Alt anonymity is a major problem for many people in the game. It is an obvious flaw in the game design.
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Riddari
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Posted - 2005.06.03 01:49:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Neurotic Cat
Quote: Read the post above my No
No. Doesn't help. Your argument remains weak. Alt anonymity is a major problem for many people in the game. It is an obvious flaw in the game design.
Who are you to judge about the gameplay of others and what they find enhances it?
When I answered the 53498th post about "make alts vanish" I also asked the question:
How many alts are used for EVIL and how many are not?
I'm fairly confident that the old 80-20 rule (it's a real rule...) applies here, 80% of alts are good, 20% are evil.
So given those numbers, you wish to neuter 80% for the deeds of the 20%?
Actually I would go so far as to say maybe 5-10% of alts are used for EVIL!!!!11!
I certainly don't encounter a lot of them.
The simplest way to get rid of alt abuse is the lengthening of the timer which makes alt creation and deletion take ever longer until it takes you several months to delete a disposable alt (due to the frequence you delete them).
Throwing a tantrum because of a scam or ore theft is so not what CCP would consider a gameplay problem anyways so this thread is just like the THOUSANDS of others before him, a really really mute point.
Oh and of course, DEFINE AN ALT!
Is it my 9m dude? Is it my 4m dude? Is it my other 4m dude?
ARGH NO DELETE THEM ALL! YOU ARE MESSING UP THE ONE CHARACTER SYSTEM! BAD MAN BAD MAN!
¼©¼ a history |
alt11112
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Posted - 2005.06.03 01:50:00 -
[56]
alts4tw
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alt11112
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Posted - 2005.06.03 01:52:00 -
[57]
Edited by: alt11112 on 03/06/2005 01:53:53 Edited by: alt11112 on 03/06/2005 01:53:21 Edited by: alt11112 on 03/06/2005 01:52:44
Originally by: Riddari
Originally by: Neurotic Cat
Quote: Read the post above my No
No. Doesn't help. Your argument remains weak. Alt anonymity is a major problem for many people in the game. It is an obvious flaw in the game design.
Who are you to judge about the gameplay of others and what they find enhances it?
When I answered the 53498th post about "make alts vanish" I also asked the question:
How many alts are used for EVIL and how many are not?
I'm fairly confident that the old 80-20 rule (it's a real rule...) applies here, 80% of alts are good, 20% are evil.
So given those numbers, you wish to neuter 80% for the deeds of the 20%?
Actually I would go so far as to say maybe 5-10% of alts are used for EVIL!!!!11!
I certainly don't encounter a lot of them.
The simplest way to get rid of alt abuse is the lengthening of the timer which makes alt creation and deletion take ever longer until it takes you several months to delete a disposable alt (due to the frequence you delete them).
Throwing a tantrum because of a scam or ore theft is so not what CCP would consider a gameplay problem anyways so this thread is just like the THOUSANDS of others before him, a really really mute point.
Oh and of course, DEFINE AN ALT!
Is it my 9m dude? Is it my 4m dude? Is it my other 4m dude?
ARGH NO DELETE THEM ALL! YOU ARE MESSING UP THE ONE CHARACTER SYSTEM! BAD MAN BAD MAN!
riddari, ¦· ert g¾ur drengur!
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Neurotic Cat
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Posted - 2005.06.03 02:22:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Neurotic Cat on 03/06/2005 02:24:17 Mr. Ridari. Much better. If you are going to respond to someone at least show some effort. Your original response of "NO" shows an extreme arrogance and lack of respect. I did not like that at all.
I see you brought some numbers to the argument. But you made them up, so I'm going to make some up too. 80% of alt use is evil. Only 20% is good.
Because the game does not provide any police or legal method of addressing a grievance with a fellow player's actions we only have one recourse: hunting them down and killing them.
I'm ok with that. It's so much simpler to code for blasters than it is to code a legal system.
But the problem is anonymity. If you don't know the real identity of the person causing you harm how can bring them to justice?
Alts are used to: Scam, steal, spy, loot, forum troll, and provide safe logistics to the enemy. A realistic simulation would give us methods to punish folks for any of these evil deeds.
Possible methods of removing anonymity: show relationship on the bio, provide a 'detective service' or agent, or provide a financial audit method.
I am not, and have never advocated the deletion or removal of all alts. But I would like a method to determine their relationship to other characters.
And that method would greatly enhance the game play for most of us.
Edit: Ridari - haven't we had this argument before?
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.06.03 02:48:00 -
[59]
Spying, scamming, corp thievery, highsec ganking, ore stealing and whatever else are all legitimate gameplay practices.
Making a character to do them, then delete it so your main has all the benefit with none of the consequences is not.
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Riddari
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Posted - 2005.06.03 03:06:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Neurotic Cat Edit: Ridari - haven't we had this argument before?
I have a hunch it was in the 3459th thread
¼©¼ a history |
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