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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.06.03 15:41:00 -
[1]
Everyone who disagrees with medium beam (frigsized) taking up too much grid is a ******* muppet.
I don't really give a **** tbh but it's utterly broken. ________________________________________________________
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.06.03 15:53:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Meridius Everyone who disagrees with medium beam (frigsized) taking up too much grid is a ******* muppet.
I don't really give a **** tbh but it's utterly broken.
werd up yo -------------
Originally by: Gnauton It was purely accidental. We really don't have a sense of humour at all.
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.06.03 15:58:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Meridius Everyone who disagrees with medium beam (frigsized) taking up too much grid is a ******* muppet.
I don't really give a **** tbh but it's utterly broken.
Good argument, well versed. Exceptionally put across. -
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.06.03 16:29:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Meridius on 03/06/2005 16:29:46
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino
Originally by: Meridius Everyone who disagrees with medium beam (frigsized) taking up too much grid is a ******* muppet.
I don't really give a **** tbh but it's utterly broken.
Good argument, well versed. Exceptionally put across.
You actually need a well versed explination as to why the turret race of EVE's assault frigate cannot fit a full rack of it's largest long range gun without grid mods while the rest can? ________________________________________________________
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.06.03 16:30:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Meridius Everyone who disagrees with medium beam (frigsized) taking up too much grid is a ******* muppet.
I don't really give a **** tbh but it's utterly broken.
I actually agree with meridus for once o_O.
Although the wolf definately needs a grid boost so it can fit 280 IIs better as well. Its ridiculous that the harpy and enyo can easilly fit a full rack of 150 IIs.
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.06.03 16:35:00 -
[6]
No, this was already put across well Meridus. I just dont understand why you had to talk like a two year old when trying to explain your version of it old mate.
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"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.06.03 16:38:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino No, this was already put across well Meridus. I just dont understand why you had to talk like a two year old when trying to explain your version of it old mate.
I am two years old.
Impressive huh
I also enjoy yelling at idiots ________________________________________________________
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Tisti
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Posted - 2005.06.03 16:46:00 -
[8]
Actualy.. its perfectly balanced... As you don't need any ammo to fire lasers, just a freaking crystal, and your ammo change time is like 1 second..
ballanced, move on
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Julien Derida
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Posted - 2005.06.03 17:19:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tisti Actualy.. its perfectly balanced... As you don't need any ammo to fire lasers, just a freaking crystal, and your ammo change time is like 1 second..
ballanced, move on
Sarcasm? ----------------------------------------
Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK |
Shadowsword
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Posted - 2005.06.03 17:20:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Tisti Actualy.. its perfectly balanced... As you don't need any ammo to fire lasers, just a freaking crystal, and your ammo change time is like 1 second..
ballanced, move on
That's an stupid argument if I ever heard one.
mmh, the typhoon has a larger drone bay than the Raven (pre-nerf), so I suppose they're balanced, too?
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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2005.06.03 17:26:00 -
[11]
i think, for what im seeing on corpchat( 300+wreckings with 280`s) that a better weapon should req more pg
280t2>150t2
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.06.03 18:05:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists i think, for what im seeing on corpchat( 300+wreckings with 280`s) that a better weapon should req more pg
280t2>150t2
do some maths and work out the dot, then "zip it".
a hint: look at the rate of fire -------------
Originally by: Gnauton It was purely accidental. We really don't have a sense of humour at all.
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.06.03 18:08:00 -
[13]
well if you check medium beams & 150mm rails:(both t2) 150mm rail II: medium beam laser II: dmg mod: 3.3 3.6 tracking: 0.07 0.1 rof 4.25s 4s falloff 6000m 4km act. energy 3.34 7.22 optimal 14km 12km
Ok so medium beams are better. But problem is that they don't fit. Only ship that can actually fit them is retribution. Let's do some calculations: pg left after fitting guns & mapc(which is must have, pdu is not enough to add repper) pg left: 10.5 cpu left: 78.25 Add a web & small aru II & cap relay: pg left: 4.5 cpu left: 49.5 (6 for aru, 20 for best named web, 3 named relay) All that can be fitted now is: 1 hsII & 1 tracking enhancer II or maybe named hardener or adaptive nano membrane.
Ok so actually we ended up with decent setup, but: no AB, no scram... means you need instas, any inty will escape you(ganking won't work here)... basicly it is good for station camping, but then pulses are better.
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Bubba Fett
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Posted - 2005.06.03 19:12:00 -
[14]
If they drop the fitting req's of lasers, then to be fair they should increase the crystal change time to 10 seconds and require you to do it every 40 shots.
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Hast
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Posted - 2005.06.03 19:18:00 -
[15]
anyone tried fitting a Crusader lately?
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Skylar Keenan
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Posted - 2005.06.03 19:21:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Bubba Fett If they drop the fitting req's of lasers, then to be fair they should increase the crystal change time to 10 seconds and require you to do it every 40 shots.
Here we go again... Dear sir - plz explain to me how this figures into this discussion ???
Requiring a MAPC on the frigate in the game with the most PG to fit 4 med beam IIs is just not right. I'd much sooner fit 280ies atm, and disregard the retributions ship bonusses than fit med beams.
Lower PG for medium beams /signed
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.06.03 19:29:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 03/06/2005 19:29:40
Originally by: Meridius Everyone who disagrees with medium beam (frigsized) taking up too much grid is a ******* muppet.
I don't really give a **** tbh but it's utterly broken.
I disagree...
Because if they change one gun, they change the gun SERIES, and we're discussing changes to one or a few SHIPS. Change the ships, NOT THE GUNS.
Or you get nasty knock-on effects on other-sized guns.
My opinion, anyway.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Meridius
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Posted - 2005.06.03 19:40:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
I disagree...
Because if they change one gun, they change the gun SERIES, and we're discussing changes to one or a few SHIPS. Change the ships, NOT THE GUNS.
Or you get nasty knock-on effects on other-sized guns.
My opinion, anyway.
That is incorrect. Powergrid and CPU attributes are not linked between different weapon sizes.
IE. Large hybrids recently got a powergrid adjustment, that change did not affect small or medium blasters.
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Julien Derida
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Posted - 2005.06.03 19:42:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Julien Derida on 03/06/2005 19:44:05
Originally by: Maya Rkell
I disagree...
Because if they change one gun, they change the gun SERIES, and we're discussing changes to one or a few SHIPS. Change the ships, NOT THE GUNS.
Or you get nasty knock-on effects on other-sized guns.
My opinion, anyway.
This seems to be true for other gun stats, but not fitting requirements. For example, large blasters recently got a PG reduction while small blasters were unaffected.
Edit: Meridius beat me to it ----------------------------------------
Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK |
Meridius
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Posted - 2005.06.03 19:55:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Hast anyone tried fitting a Crusader lately?
You can fit 2 medium beam IIs on a crusader without any mods To put on 4 you'd need 2 MAPCs...and thats without using MWD.
They basically do not fit at all on a Crusader, period.
Meanwhile, you can go joyriding in a Claw with 3x 280 IIs and structure inties in one volley ________________________________________________________
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Nomen Nescio
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Posted - 2005.06.03 20:27:00 -
[21]
To be honest all assault are broken in terms of firepower. they should have 5 guns for top hitter WITH the current bonuses (better twice of the damage bonuses).
But take amarr assaults - they dont do ANY significant damage over interceptors. But interceptors can effectively use short range guns for more damage and assaults are slot, heavy and... (lol at 1 med slot ret) can't hold the target. So you have to fit them with long range for long range = low damage.
Gallente get damage bonus and can fit full rack of big guns, caldari get huge range and again full rack of guns. Minmatar have huge damage per volley and amarr... YES BEAMS TAKE bull grid to fit. And you got what? Just 4 guns, no damage bonus at all.
I would fit blasters, but I need a hauler to tow me to the firing range.
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Nomen Nescio
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Posted - 2005.06.03 20:27:00 -
[22]
To be honest all assault are broken in terms of firepower. they should have 5 guns for top hitter WITH the current bonuses (better twice of the damage bonuses).
But take amarr assaults - they dont do ANY significant damage over interceptors. But interceptors can effectively use short range guns for more damage and assaults are slot, heavy and... (lol at 1 med slot ret) can't hold the target. So you have to fit them with long range for long range = low damage.
Gallente get damage bonus and can fit full rack of big guns, caldari get huge range and again full rack of guns. Minmatar have huge damage per volley and amarr... YES BEAMS TAKE bull grid to fit. And you got what? Just 4 guns, no damage bonus at all.
I would fit blasters, but I need a hauler to tow me to the firing range.
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Nomen Nescio
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Posted - 2005.06.03 20:32:00 -
[23]
By the way if you put aside all "tech2 ship, looks good" stuff. And fit a cruiser with same purpose you will get better machine for much less money.
Enyo = thorax with 1600 plate, 4 hards, 5 150 II rails. Plus you have extra med slot and 8 ogres. And faster with mwd.
Ishkur = vexor, 14 med drones, 4 rails II, 1600 armor.... you know... insurable, full package under 8 mil.
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Nomen Nescio
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Posted - 2005.06.03 20:32:00 -
[24]
By the way if you put aside all "tech2 ship, looks good" stuff. And fit a cruiser with same purpose you will get better machine for much less money.
Enyo = thorax with 1600 plate, 4 hards, 5 150 II rails. Plus you have extra med slot and 8 ogres. And faster with mwd.
Ishkur = vexor, 14 med drones, 4 rails II, 1600 armor.... you know... insurable, full package under 8 mil.
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xenorx
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Posted - 2005.06.03 20:32:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Skylar Keenan
Originally by: Bubba Fett If they drop the fitting req's of lasers, then to be fair they should increase the crystal change time to 10 seconds and require you to do it every 40 shots.
Here we go again... Dear sir - plz explain to me how this figures into this discussion ???
Requiring a MAPC on the frigate in the game with the most PG to fit 4 med beam IIs is just not right. I'd much sooner fit 280ies atm, and disregard the retributions ship bonusses than fit med beams.
Lower PG for medium beams /signed
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Yeah and you had better figure on 2 MAPC if you want to fit an afterburner on there too.
Signed. Reduce the PG and CPU requirements.
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xenorx
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Posted - 2005.06.03 20:32:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Skylar Keenan
Originally by: Bubba Fett If they drop the fitting req's of lasers, then to be fair they should increase the crystal change time to 10 seconds and require you to do it every 40 shots.
Here we go again... Dear sir - plz explain to me how this figures into this discussion ???
Requiring a MAPC on the frigate in the game with the most PG to fit 4 med beam IIs is just not right. I'd much sooner fit 280ies atm, and disregard the retributions ship bonusses than fit med beams.
Lower PG for medium beams /signed
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Yeah and you had better figure on 2 MAPC if you want to fit an afterburner on there too.
Signed. Reduce the PG and CPU requirements.
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hylleX
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Posted - 2005.06.03 20:58:00 -
[27]
Edited by: hylleX on 03/06/2005 20:58:25 Signed
Give amarr af some love too, give the retri a second midslot remove on of the high slots since its useless anyway. the vengeance is crap too btw it really needs love.
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hylleX
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Posted - 2005.06.03 20:58:00 -
[28]
Edited by: hylleX on 03/06/2005 20:58:25 Signed
Give amarr af some love too, give the retri a second midslot remove on of the high slots since its useless anyway. the vengeance is crap too btw it really needs love.
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.06.03 21:14:00 -
[29]
i'd love 4/2/5 layout on retri :) If they intend to change it, better buy some, as prices will go higher than harpy/enyos
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.06.03 21:14:00 -
[30]
i'd love 4/2/5 layout on retri :) If they intend to change it, better buy some, as prices will go higher than harpy/enyos
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