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Solai
Jolly Codgers Get Off My Lawn
34
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Posted - 2012.12.30 18:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have Industry V, not really anything else. I may grow Indy skills further, a bit down the road, but in the meantime I need to increase my SP in different areas to deal with the here-and-now.
But lets say I I'm in a corp, and on good terms with others who can do it all. If I wanted to help their operation, and still get paid, is there realistically any way that I could assist the more experienced guys? Is there a win-win here? |
Kira Kasumi
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2012.12.30 18:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
As I don't know your skills or you situation I suggest you ask the big boys you plan to manufacture with. They will most likely find a good use of your slots.
I'm guessing you will be the one building T1 modules, drones and components off their blueprint copies.
Train production efficiency to V and then focus on getting as many factory slots. Or you can build T2 where PE5 is not really needed but 50k-100k SP into science is.
Fly safe |
Beckie DeLey
Living From Scraps
268
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Posted - 2012.12.30 20:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Without Production Efficiency to V you are not going to be that much of a help. There are things that can be manufactured for a profit with P.E. to IV, but that's mostly the lowend stuff that has low ISK/hour, but higher margins. Like certain types of ammo, charges and other consumables. Not really something the 'big boys' are likely to mess around with, but you might be able to help fill your corp stock of those consumables.
Once you do have PE V, your options are much wider. T1 manufacturing only needs few skills, with less than a month of training you could potentially be building battleships at an efficcient rate for your corp. If that's whatyou want and what the corp needs, we can't know. So... i started an industry blog at www.derbk.com/eve There i am preparing a guide to all things related to manufacturing. Check it out!
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Solai
Jolly Codgers Get Off My Lawn
34
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Posted - 2012.12.30 22:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thanks folks.
But it sounds like you're saying that either way, there's no team-up synergy that's possible, even with those skills; That it's all independent manufacturing. That high SP manufacturers don't really benefit from outsourcing tasks to lower SP manufacturers. Is this correct?
BTW, I have already been watching your blog. Thanks for making it. =) |
Beckie DeLey
Living From Scraps
268
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Posted - 2012.12.30 23:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yes and no. Sadly, simple T1 manufacturing as such doesn't offer much in the ways of teamwork. Until you get to capital construction, of course, where everyone can assemble some of the parts necessary to construct the capital in the end.
Teamwork becomes interesting when you stop talking about providing one specific item for the corp and start to think about complete fittings. I am sure that the 'big boys' would be delighted to see the newer guys get into the production of T1 hulls (frigs, cruisers, BCs, whatever your corp likes to whelp en masse ) while they provide the T2 guns and modules. So you do the manufacturing on your own, but piece everything together in the end to get to a team effort.
Just an idea of how that could be set up, of course i have no idea how your corp does things. So... i started an industry blog at www.derbk.com/eve There i am preparing a guide to all things related to manufacturing. Check it out!
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Solai
Jolly Codgers Get Off My Lawn
34
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Posted - 2012.12.30 23:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nor I yet, but this is a good place to start finding out. This is enough to illustrate how to get started on figuring out cooperation in the manner you describe. Thanks again. =) |
Styth spiting
Ion Corp. NightSong Directorate
242
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Posted - 2012.12.30 23:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Solai wrote:I have Industry V, not really anything else. I may grow Indy skills further, a bit down the road, but in the meantime I need to increase my SP in different areas to deal with the here-and-now.
But lets say I I'm in a corp, and on good terms with others who can do it all. If I wanted to help their operation, and still get paid, is there realistically any way that I could assist the more experienced guys? Is there a win-win here?
If you're a miner you can always mine and sell the ore to the corp mate. that way you don't need to deal with refining, grinding npc corp standings or hauling.
Filling NPC stations with BPO's to be researched doesn't take very much time. Yes there is a wait time for the jobs to start but even with just 1 day training you can setup 4 copy / PE jobs.
Running around doing price checks, meaning going to surrounding regions and getting buy/sell order prices on item(s) so they can sell them. You could also do price checks, buy the items and sell them yourself. |
Vallista
ICOI Research Space Mongolians
7
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Posted - 2013.01.01 06:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Yes.
I have an arrangement with a fellow corp mate who has PE5. She builds T1 ships for me, and I turn them into T2 ships. |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
268
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Posted - 2013.01.01 07:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
I too tend to outsource my t1 ship construction to other members of my corp. im not exactly what you mean by synergy because for the most part you will be filling a role that one of their alts could be doing. I currently do not feel like gathering minerals even though i do gather t2 materials, so that is something that i would ask a newer corp member to do for me.
Were you in my corp the biggest help you could be is to do the t1 manufacturing that i do not want to waste slots doing. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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Neugeniko
Insight Securities
4
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Posted - 2013.01.01 11:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
You can help without spending a single SP. Heres a few Suggestions.
Use programs like IPH and keep a snapshot of the output in google docs for the big boys to use as reference. Make up copy lists to drive T2 manufacturing for the whole corp. If members are making a limited range of products help ease the work load of diversifying by offering to calculate material buy lists.
Neug |
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Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
880
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Posted - 2013.01.01 19:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
The only way they'll pay you is if they're feeling charitable, and even then it's unlikely. If your indy guy only has low-end skills, that also means it's far easier to just roll an alt to do the same thing. Not only does this mean they won't have to pay you, but they won't have to rely on someone else to keep their machine running.
The only exception to this might be doing bulk hauling in highsec, but it'd likely involve the same collateral and pay as any standard courier contract. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
300
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Posted - 2013.01.01 21:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
Solai wrote:I have Industry V, not really anything else. I may grow Indy skills further, a bit down the road, but in the meantime I need to increase my SP in different areas to deal with the here-and-now.
But lets say I I'm in a corp, and on good terms with others who can do it all. If I wanted to help their operation, and still get paid, is there realistically any way that I could assist the more experienced guys? Is there a win-win here?
You can help him move stuff around. In most cases, that means getting your ass in a Freighter, and moving bulky stuff either AFK or at-the-keyboard. Some industrial processes may benefit from you hauling stuff around in a T1 Industrial, but be prepared for having to use one of the big ones like Badger MkII or Iteron MkV. In some cases there may also be a need to move very high-value tiny items around, e.g. researched Blueprints. You'd use any frigate for that, or possibly an Interceptor for something really valuable but the main point is to be fast and not be AFK.
Another option is to help him maintain Buy Orders or Sell Orders. This means you fly around between a small number of systems (usually either hubs like Jita and Dodixie, or else obscure out-of-the-way places), and update Buy/Sell Orders on his behalf to make sure others don't outbid them (and to renew sold-out orders), maybe corporate orders, or else you buy stuff for him with your own Orders and then Contract it to him when you have a certain minimum, and you do this either as a favour for him, or else he pays you a small fee.
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Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
300
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Posted - 2013.01.01 21:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
Another possibility is to flit around (you want a fast ship for this, T1 frigate, eventually an Interceptor) and look for bargain. Manly bargain sales of large amounts of low-price minerals or ores, but also opportunities for selling stuff, i.e. high-price Buy Orders, probably mostly in Regions that don't have market hubs. |
Fango Mango
University of Caille Gallente Federation
74
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Posted - 2013.01.03 02:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Its was said earlier, but T2 Module production, can be done with "low" skills
Start with BPC copies - invention needs lots of copies
Then train up some science skills to level one for the most popular modules.
You can then start inventing (at 40% but still profitable) and building T2 modules
You don't need PE V because all the expensive components are "extra material" and therefore fixed quantity.
Bam!!! You're there, you're now a "big boy" capable of supporting yourself independently. Start rounding out your skills to build more stuff and make your invention more profitable.
-FM
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Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
59
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Posted - 2013.01.03 15:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
As was mentioned earlier, the hard part of Eve industry involves no in game skill at all. The hard part is figuring out what to build, where to sell it, where to buy the cheapest materials, establishing contacts with both upstream and downstream suppliers, making lots of spreadsheets, setting up job logistics such that the chars that actually have the in game skills to install job xyz know what job to install and have the materials required at the desired location ready to go.
If it wasn't for the above, I could make several billion more a month doing industry. "Clicking install" is the easy part, well except for the whole carpal tunnel danger. QCATS is recruiting https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=146180
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Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
91
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Posted - 2013.01.03 17:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Your situation and the cooperative attitude of corp mates will determine the level of synergy you are going to have with experienced high skill manufacturers.
When I first started this game, I was our corp industrialists hauling monkey because I wanted to learn, I then went into a mining barge, then into an exhumer, then with PE V, began making corp ammo and T1 ships, then with some more skills started making components for T2 items, and so on and so forth. It was a great relationship and about 5 of us all working together to be a productive unit building cap ships. I learned a lot, and by producing the lower end stuff allowed them to focus their available jobs on other stuff.
Today, I have 1 manufacturing/lab assistant. He makes BPC's for invention runs, and manufacturers all of the T1 parts. I build all of the T2 products, and do invention runs. The relationship works great and we share in the profits. |
Solotta Erquilenne
0
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Posted - 2013.01.03 18:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
All the posts here have been pretty spot on. The amount you can help varies by the relationship you have, the market, the setting, and the product. An industrialist in a t1 market won't tell you what's profitable to build, because he'll be introducing competition, so your helpfulness is mostly *****-work, and chances are you won't get much benefit except experience. Otherwise you could be a miner, but that's not quite what you're looking for. Pricechecks and hauling can be helpful, but are bitchwork. However, if you're willing to sink SP into things that won't be benefiting you immediately, things start looking up. Over the long term, having research and copy slots available can be a real help to someone not wanting to manage another alt, particularly if the business is looking to diversify its blueprint collection. Production Efficiency 5 isn't a long train considering how vital it is, and t1 production can be a solid side business (high margin, low isk/hour/job), especially if your corp makes use of those t1 things, or your corp bases somewhere with a poorly seeded market (or lowsec/nullsec). Making the t1 components of the t2 production is often a sideshow to the t2 producer, and can be done without requiring too much SP. You can also contribute through coordinating a PI network together. Station traders and builders benefit from standings, so while you manage a few t1 production lines, you could also work on your standings or help another industrialists alt get standings through fleeting together while mission grinding. Lastly, I mentioned mining as something auxiliary to pure industry, but many industrialists mine while managing other things. If you do exploration, a hisec gravimetric belt may be preferable to mining in a standard asteroid belt, and may be worth traveling a few jumps.
All in all, find some good people and see what they think. Don't expect to get handed the keys to an isk-printing-machine, and do expect that you'll only be helping here-and-there, not full time. Also, get production efficiency 5 and make a few crude profit calculators and |
Iosue
Black Sky Hipsters
135
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Posted - 2013.01.03 20:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
if you really want to help the big boys, you might try to going the compression route. if you can get PE to V and obtain a well researched compression bpo, you may be able to offer an industrialist some much needed support. gl. |
Huttan Funaila
Terminal Radioactivity Honey Badger Coalition
153
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Posted - 2013.01.03 20:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
Solai wrote:But lets say I I'm in a corp, and on good terms with others who can do it all. If I wanted to help their operation, and still get paid, is there realistically any way that I could assist the more experienced guys? Is there a win-win here? Find out what the manufacturers in your corp are making. In the following theoretical scenario, some of the planning involves thinking several months out (with skills like Command Center Upgrades 5 taking about 3 weeks of training just by itself).
For example, let's pretend I'm making a lot of Buzzards and Scourge Fury missiles and fuel blocks.
For each of those, I need PI materials: Construction Blocks for the ship, Rocket Fuel for the missiles, bunches of stuff for fuel blocks. Do I have enough planets running? Nope, which one can you help with? Our "strategic" plans call for at least 1k Broadcast Nodes in 2013, how many can you make?
For each of those T2 items, some subcomponents are needed, can I make them all (duh! no), can you make some?
The final T2 items need pretty high skill levels, but the subcomponents usually need minimal skills. |
Mark Munoz
Schwarzschild Casimir Collective STR8NGE BREW
69
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Posted - 2013.01.04 00:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
I found I was the most help in the beginning hauling ore from the orca to the station continuously. As long as the fleet was around 6-8 I could keep up with just an itty V. I was usually rewarded with 10% of the haul that I took in.
Granted this isn't about production but it got me on the good graces of those that did it and spawned lots of other opportunities. |
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