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Takanuro
The Forsworn Protectorate Imperial Protectorate
3
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Posted - 2013.01.08 11:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
Faction Warfare is for PVP, this is how CCP market it.
Scenario:
You see a Tristan on scan at a novice plex. You warp to said plex and activate the gate. You discover it's a valid war target, lock target, activate Scram or Disruptor but wait.....War Target warps off.
My suggestion is that Warp Core Stabilisers are not capatible with the Acceleration gates into FW Plexes. If we are all here to PVP then Warp Core Stabilisers have no place in the combat arena. Tristans, Caracals, Vexors, Dragoons, that's just the last few ships I've come across that have been 'stabbed-up' to avoid combat.
This is just another tool for farmers, a situation that CCP is allowing to get way too far out of hand.
Having to fit 3 Warp Disruptors on my Condor just to try and point a target is crazy and gimps my ships against anything that actually might want to fight.
Please help the PVP pilots as people are losing faith in FW as a PVP environment.
p.s If you do make this change, please make sure that Ventures cannot get into plexes either.
Thank you. Taka. |
Joelleaveek
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
181
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Posted - 2013.01.08 11:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Add an extra point, beat them at their own game. |
Colt Blackhawk
Forced Penetration Hopeless Addiction
35
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Posted - 2013.01.08 11:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
YES YES YES YES!!!! Ban warp core stabs in plexes!!!! I am really sick of it. Everywhere stabbed farmers. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce Brosefs.
92
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Posted - 2013.01.08 11:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
Really, so you are complaining that they have a fit that gimps their ship, and makes it so if you point them at all, you win. Faction Scrams count as a 3 strength warp disruption. Faction Scram + Point = 4. Chances of them fitting 4 Stabs, not likely. Sure, it's about PvP, and PvP is..... about fitting choices to beat the other guys ship. Stabs are part of that. Or should we also ban them having shields & armour mods because they mean you can't kill them fast enough. |
Colt Blackhawk
Forced Penetration Hopeless Addiction
35
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Posted - 2013.01.08 12:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Quote:Really, so you are complaining that they have a fit that gimps their ship, and makes it so if you point them at all, you win. Faction Scrams count as a 3 strength warp disruption. Faction Scram + Point = 4. Chances of them fitting 4 Stabs, not likely. Sure, it's about PvP, and PvP is..... about fitting choices to beat the other guys ship. Stabs are part of that. Or should we also ban them having shields & armour mods because they mean you can't kill them fast enough.
Want to see you doin fw with always faction scrams fitted. *rolleyes*
Probably you are only defending your farmer alt.
It is simply no fun entering a sys, scanning 5 plexes, 4 wt chickening out , managing to point the 5th and... it is stabbed. I lost hours (!!!!) because of that sh.... Let us face it: Best fw we had was after last inferno patch. In reti they ruined it again. Again everywhere these running stabbed farmers. Stabbed Vexors running away from 1 little hook!!! And that happens when you are the only one amarr militia guy in sys and 5 other minnies there! Ban stabs in plexes and give us fw of last inferno patch back. |
RavenTesio
Liandri Corporation Liandri Covenant
74
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Posted - 2013.01.08 12:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
Joelleaveek wrote:Add an extra point, beat them at their own game.
An excellent idea if it wasn't for the following glaring issues:
GÇó Most players use Armour Tanking (large numbers of low-slots) fitting a Damage Control Unit + 3 or More Warp Core Stablisers along with a Micro-Warp Drive GÇó Fitting a ship with 2+ Warp Scramblers is often impractical for any other reason than catching Stabbed Alt Farmers GÇó Most alt farmers sit 30+ km away from the Warp-in meaning Warp Disruptors are the only viable means without an incredibly fast ship... as such you need to fit 3 or more to often catch these people.
We've had some limited success when flying in groups warping in an catching a few of these farmers unaware, getting a few scrams off of them while they've been focused on another account - but trying to catch them when they're actively checking that account frankly is frustrating at the best of times.
I don't think banning Warp Stabs from Complexes is the solution, all these players will do is use their main to destroy the NPCs then run the complexes with unfitted alts, who should they get jumped they won't care if they die as they have no SP - they just go back to the station with 1,000 more unfitted cheap frigates to continue the dance once more.
We get meaningless Kill Reports and padding, which I'm sure is fine for those who care - but hardly what you'd call challenging or fun.
More importantly it doesn't solve the main issue that these null-sec carebears are destroying markets meant to cover the costs of OUR PvP ... not their costs of coming down whenever they're bored to squish us.
CCP needs to stop literally providing more means of handing out ISK to players to prevent this kind of ****!
Incursions and Faction Warfare have frankly become ISK printers, with the majority involved not even remotely interested in the PvP aspect or the warzone as a whole. Just look at the Caldari-Gallente warzone, while the Caldari were on top; there were thousands (I wish to god I was lying) of characters farming, the second the Gallente started to get the upper hand they instantly flip-flopped.
Seriously just look at the numbers. In October, Caldari has 9000+ enlisted... today 3000+
The changes to Faction Warfare, some of the ideas have been good; but frankly this focus on LP and ISK honestly has pissed me off since Inferno launched. I will guarentee as well the second the Gallente complete their final push to secure the last remaining systems under Caldari 'control' ... the LP farmers will again move somewhere else, likely the Minmatar or Amarr where they will once again apply their locus trade - destroy their warzone as well (far more than their current LP farmers have).
They are little more than locusts destroying the economy of the game and exploiting mechanics intended to help fund the Faction Warfare PvP. I guarentee within the next couple of months, probably before Fanfest we're going to be back at the situation we were originally (if we aren't already) where for the pilots who actually care about FW rather than those who are just trying to make a quick ISK; that Warzone control is effectively meaningless past bragging rights. |
Colt Blackhawk
Forced Penetration Hopeless Addiction
35
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Posted - 2013.01.08 12:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
@RavenTesio
Yep you are right. But the fw version pre retribution, I mean from the last inferno patch was great. During these few weeks you needed pvp fleets to farm. I want it back. |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
715
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Posted - 2013.01.08 14:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Warp core Stabilizers are part of the "everything has a counter" in Eve Online. They are the counter to points, and they significantly gimp the ship fitting them in terms of potential DPS.
There are at least four ways to counter WCS in game: 1. Fit another point. (Obvious, but not always practical.) 2. Bubbles (Obviously this only works in nullsec, and so probably doesn't apply to this situation) 3. Fit the infinite point script to a Hictor. (There's a reason these ships make super cap pilots wet their pants) 4. Bring friends. (This being a war, I assume you have some)
A hictor's infinite point has a 28km range (last I bothered to check). Add in a MWD and a scan res scripted sebo (or two), and you stand a fairly good chance of pointing these guys, even if they're 30k off the gate. It also doesn't matter how many WCS they fit (that's the infinite part).
Combining options 3 and 4 seems to be the most viable way of "fixing" the WCS problem in the OP, and thus no mechanics changes are necessary. Bumping, leave it alone. |
Takanuro
The Forsworn Protectorate Imperial Protectorate
5
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Posted - 2013.01.08 14:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:Warp core Stabilizers are part of the "everything has a counter" in Eve Online. They are the counter to points, and they significantly gimp the ship fitting them in terms of potential DPS.
There are at least four ways to counter WCS in game: 1. Fit another point. (Obvious, but not always practical.) 2. Bubbles (Obviously this only works in nullsec, and so probably doesn't apply to this situation) 3. Fit the infinite point script to a Hictor. (There's a reason these ships make super cap pilots wet their pants) 4. Bring friends. (This being a war, I assume you have some)
A hictor's infinite point has a 28km range (last I bothered to check). Add in a MWD and a scan res scripted sebo (or two), and you stand a fairly good chance of pointing these guys, even if they're 30k off the gate. It also doesn't matter how many WCS they fit (that's the infinite part).
Combining options 3 and 4 seems to be the most viable way of "fixing" the WCS problem in the OP, and thus no mechanics changes are necessary.
You clearly know nothing of Faction Warfare and the issue I am attempting to address, yet provide the conclusion that 'no mechanics changes are necessary' . Thanks for your non-contribution. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2185
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Posted - 2013.01.08 15:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
The only issue I see here, is you not bringing enough broskies to help you actually tackle & gank players in FW sites...
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
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Rancor Kane
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2013.01.08 15:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
maybe we could make them useless just after jumping gates as well, so nasty ravens with 5 stabs that get away from a gate camp.
Shields and armor should also be deactivated when I try to shoot someone they keep my damage from it's true potential.
If he leaves the plex he's done farming that one and can only continue when you leave the plex again. good job.
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Takanuro
The Forsworn Protectorate Imperial Protectorate
5
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Posted - 2013.01.08 15:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Rancor Kane wrote:maybe we could make them useless just after jumping gates as well, so nasty ravens with 5 stabs that get away from a gate camp.
Shields and armor should also be deactivated when I try to shoot someone they keep my damage from it's true potential.
If he leaves the plex he's done farming that one and can only continue when you leave the plex again. good job.
I am not suggesting anything about the effectiveness of warp core stabilisers or stargate mechanics. Please comprehend the OP.
I am just proposing an idea as FW has severe problems with plex farming that go against the spirit and purpose of the FW feature of EVE. Please troll somewhere else.
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Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
309
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Posted - 2013.01.08 15:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
Takanuro wrote:the spirit and purpose of the FW feature of EVE.
What you are suggesting is rules of war and how it should be conducted. That is against the spirit of EVE. DirectX 11, it's not rocket appliance! |
Colt Blackhawk
Forced Penetration Hopeless Addiction
36
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Posted - 2013.01.08 17:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
It would be nice if people who don-¦t know anything about fw would stop posting here.
Main issue is that you really don-¦t know how idiotic it is to chase one ship after the other out of plex and everything you point is stabbed. Sometimes Vexors or Algos are stabbed and running away from my lonely hook!!! And the next time you think: Okay it is a plexer and you point that algos you realize: OH sh.... it is a pvper and you are dead. FW is actually farmville again. FIX IT CCP |
Astroniomix
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
308
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Posted - 2013.01.08 17:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:It would be nice if people who don-¦t know anything about fw would stop posting here.
Main issue is that you really don-¦t know how idiotic it is to chase one ship after the other out of plex and everything you point is stabbed. Sometimes Vexors or Algos are stabbed and running away from my lonely hook!!! And the next time you think: Okay it is a plexer and you point that algos you realize: OH sh.... it is a pvper and you are dead. FW is actually farmville again. FIX IT CCP So sit in the plex and deny him the ability to run it. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
13446
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Posted - 2013.01.08 17:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
You already have options open to you, time to change your modus operandi I guess.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2186
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Posted - 2013.01.08 17:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote: Sometimes Vexors or Algos are stabbed and running away from my lonely hook!!! FIX IT CCP
There's your problem.
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
13447
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 18:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:Colt Blackhawk wrote: Sometimes Vexors or Algos are stabbed and running away from my lonely hook!!! FIX IT CCP
There's your problem. Now now Asuka, let's not have facts get in the way of a good whine.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
717
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Posted - 2013.01.08 18:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
Astroniomix wrote:Colt Blackhawk wrote:It would be nice if people who don-¦t know anything about fw would stop posting here.
Main issue is that you really don-¦t know how idiotic it is to chase one ship after the other out of plex and everything you point is stabbed. Sometimes Vexors or Algos are stabbed and running away from my lonely hook!!! And the next time you think: Okay it is a plexer and you point that algos you realize: OH sh.... it is a pvper and you are dead. FW is actually farmville again. FIX IT CCP So sit in the plex and deny him the ability to run it.
Better. Sit in the plex and cloak, and kill him when he comes back. Bumping, leave it alone. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
412
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Posted - 2013.01.08 18:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
Perhaps the issue isn't warp core stabs, but instead the ease to which sites can be completed.
Perhaps instead of removing warp core stabs, or really making any other changes towards fittings and balance. Instead maybe CCP could go through and make sites more difficult so that it requires more ships, and/or larger ships and/or logistics so that there are more targets, slower targets, more fights, less warp core stabs, and less QQ on the forums from those who want easy kills.
Though, this kind of change may bring about QQ from those that enjoy sites the way they are.
That said, someone is always gonna be pissy, but from what I understand, running sites in FW is entirely too profitable and easy to leave them the way they are... |
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Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Relativity Alliance
1017
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Posted - 2013.01.08 18:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
Still laughing over this thread.
The idea that one player could anticipate the tactics of an attacker, fit a ship proactively to counter this, and be considered unfair....
...awesome....
Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Crimeo Khamsi
AirHogs Zulu People
231
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Posted - 2013.01.08 18:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
Keep in mind also that warping around ON GRID is a valid and sometimes very successful tactic in PVP. In a plex, I might set up a bunch of bounce points all 200km from one another ahead of time, then as soon as you get there, I can engage you, and essentially dictate the range of battle without having to entirely rely on prop mods
So banning stabs would not only prevent escaping battle, but also limit techniques used during battle. Which defies the OPs logic (which of course wasn't very good anyway. I'm just throwing another problem onto the pile) |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Relativity Alliance
1017
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 18:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:Keep in mind also that warping around ON GRID is a valid and sometimes very successful tactic in PVP. In a plex, I might set up a bunch of bounce points all 200km from one another ahead of time, then as soon as you get there, I can engage you, and essentially dictate the range of battle without having to entirely rely on prop mods
So banning stabs would not only prevent escaping battle, but also limit techniques used during battle. Which defies the OPs logic (which of course wasn't very good anyway. I'm just throwing another problem onto the pile) Wait, you prepare strategic BMs ahead of time?
That's an awesome strategy!
The OP probably wants you banned from the game for thinking ahead though, this could be even more effective than a stab.... Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
413
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 18:59:00 -
[24] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Crimeo Khamsi wrote:Keep in mind also that warping around ON GRID is a valid and sometimes very successful tactic in PVP. In a plex, I might set up a bunch of bounce points all 200km from one another ahead of time, then as soon as you get there, I can engage you, and essentially dictate the range of battle without having to entirely rely on prop mods
So banning stabs would not only prevent escaping battle, but also limit techniques used during battle. Which defies the OPs logic (which of course wasn't very good anyway. I'm just throwing another problem onto the pile) Wait, you prepare strategic BMs ahead of time? That's an awesome strategy! The OP probably wants you banned from the game for thinking ahead though, this could be even more effective than a stab....
Nooo, he won't have him banned.
He'll just start another thread about how warping around in a site shouldn't be allowed
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Seranova Farreach
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
405
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Posted - 2013.01.08 19:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
Takanuro wrote:Faction Warfare is for PVP, this is how CCP market it.
Scenario:
You see a Tristan on scan at a novice plex. You warp to said plex and activate the gate. You discover it's a valid war target, lock target, activate Scram or Disruptor but wait.....War Target warps off.
My suggestion is that Warp Core Stabilisers are not capatible with the Acceleration gates into FW Plexes. If we are all here to PVP then Warp Core Stabilisers have no place in the combat arena. Tristans, Caracals, Vexors, Dragoons, that's just the last few ships I've come across that have been 'stabbed-up' to avoid combat.
This is just another tool for farmers, a situation that CCP is allowing to get way too far out of hand.
Having to fit 3 Warp Disruptors on my Condor just to try and point a target is crazy and gimps my ships against anything that actually might want to fight.
Please help the PVP pilots as people are losing faith in FW as a PVP environment.
p.s If you do make this change, please make sure that Ventures cannot get into plexes either.
Thank you. Taka. smells like butthurt cause they were denied a kill. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
413
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 19:23:00 -
[26] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:Takanuro wrote:Faction Warfare is for PVP, this is how CCP market it.
Scenario:
You see a Tristan on scan at a novice plex. You warp to said plex and activate the gate. You discover it's a valid war target, lock target, activate Scram or Disruptor but wait.....War Target warps off.
My suggestion is that Warp Core Stabilisers are not capatible with the Acceleration gates into FW Plexes. If we are all here to PVP then Warp Core Stabilisers have no place in the combat arena. Tristans, Caracals, Vexors, Dragoons, that's just the last few ships I've come across that have been 'stabbed-up' to avoid combat.
This is just another tool for farmers, a situation that CCP is allowing to get way too far out of hand.
Having to fit 3 Warp Disruptors on my Condor just to try and point a target is crazy and gimps my ships against anything that actually might want to fight.
Please help the PVP pilots as people are losing faith in FW as a PVP environment.
p.s If you do make this change, please make sure that Ventures cannot get into plexes either.
Thank you. Taka. smells like butthurt cause they were denied a kill.
Still, I'd rather hear QQ from FW players that want kills they so rightly deserve than to listen to QQ from high sec gankers, griefers, and deccers that think they earn every kill they get as if it were any more difficult than blowing up NPCs... |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1390
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 19:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
ccp should motivate people to stay in plexes and fight, i don't think that banning items helps.
alternative proposal: timer reset if you warp off. This will make everyone think twice if its still worth it to play the pve game in FW
this is a fix which tries to address the root of the problem, if stabs where bannded pve players would just warp earlier. a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears
83
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Posted - 2013.01.08 21:46:00 -
[28] - Quote
FW is what it is, there are people who were in it before you were, who dealt with the same ****. You've pretty much only got two options:
1) Take the pirates way out and don't run plexes, gate camps with some friends will provide you with your WT kills.
or
2) Quit Crying and just Suck It Up. I agree with the following assessment of the Mining Barge Buff and as a reformed "Greed-fit", High-sec AFK miner, I think that is saying something. -áMining Barge buff: CCP has acknowledged that miners in general are too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
Guns nButter
Rim Collection RC Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2013.01.08 23:31:00 -
[29] - Quote
Maybe i'm a little naive but... t2 hictor points with a focus script have a 30km range. Isn't that enough? |
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears
83
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 23:46:00 -
[30] - Quote
lol, this is very true, though IDK if that would be considered overkill or not I agree with the following assessment of the Mining Barge Buff and as a reformed "Greed-fit", High-sec AFK miner, I think that is saying something. -áMining Barge buff: CCP has acknowledged that miners in general are too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
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