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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
94
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Posted - 2013.01.09 00:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
If I post a thread saying nerf point/scram as its unfair a 5 million dollar isk rifter can lock my 200 mil isk ship I'd be told:
A. waaaah, suck it up, l2p, etc B. fit a warp stab
What exaclty is wrong with what the plex runner is doing? They opted for plan B. The much better option than dying like a muppet under plan A.
CBA assed to e-stalk you op for time played but you do know ccp have over patches boosted the pve bene's of FW to get people into it, right?
The older days pickings were slim. If a player wnet 0.0 he got his pvp and his 30 mil a tick average payouts when carebearing. Went WH'ing, sleeper poop pays well. And there was FW...lots of work, less payout. So ccp over time has been fixing this.
If you want pure pvp action you will have to go piewat or look at non sov wanting crews like RK. They generally only pvp. Its how they make their isk. Anything else and yes you will get you people who like their pve and pvp mixed to varying degrees.
Unless a feature was added I missed, typing amarr victor or whatever role play saying the other FW RP neckbeards use in the window to buy a ship doe not get it for free when they are buying replacement ships. And it sure as hell does not buy plex at the current wtf high prices (I remember plex being 300 mil or lower).
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Felsusguy
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
25
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Posted - 2013.01.09 02:00:00 -
[32] - Quote
No. If they want to use warp stabilizers, that's fine. What's next, no MWDs in Plexes because it's for PVP, and if it's PVP there are warp jammers? Warp core stabilizers are to allow you to warp away even if jammed, not to prevent PVP. If you don't want to die, don't die. Besides, warp core stabilizers are underpowered as is. They horribly reduce your ability to lock onto targets and require multiple of them to work against scramblers. Farming is bad, but warp core stabilizers are a completely legitimate and viable option to escape from an unwinnable fight. Try-Cycle Mining Industry recruiting! |
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears
83
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Posted - 2013.01.09 02:57:00 -
[33] - Quote
Felsusguy wrote:No. If they want to use warp stabilizers, that's fine. What's next, no MWDs in Plexes because it's for PVP, and if it's PVP there are warp jammers? Warp core stabilizers are to allow you to warp away even if jammed, not to prevent PVP. If you don't want to die, don't die. Besides, warp core stabilizers are underpowered as is. They horribly reduce your ability to lock onto targets and require multiple of them to work against scramblers. Farming is bad, but warp core stabilizers are a completely legitimate and viable option to escape from an unwinnable fight.
Please define "unwinnable fight".
Have you ever participated in Faction Warfare? Do you know anything about Faction Warfare Plexes?
Warp stabs have a place and that place is on small, high-value haul ships, not in the low-slots of FW farmers. I agree with the following assessment of the Mining Barge Buff and as a reformed "Greed-fit", High-sec AFK miner, I think that is saying something. -áMining Barge buff: CCP has acknowledged that miners in general are too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
Samuel Wess
Happy Folks Happy Cartel
9
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Posted - 2013.01.09 06:03:00 -
[34] - Quote
I don't know much about fw, but i have a friend that quit eve/fw, and was just because of spending 1 week in it and only finding stabbed frigates :) Stabs are good, fw mechanics could be improved it seems. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2189
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Posted - 2013.01.09 06:19:00 -
[35] - Quote
Alaekessa wrote:
Warp stabs have a place and that place is on small, high-value haul ships, not in the low-slots of FW farmers.
Lol. Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
Titus Veridius
Calamitous-Intent
9
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Posted - 2013.01.09 06:56:00 -
[36] - Quote
The only reason stabs became so prevalent in FW space was because Faction Warfare got buffed and made profitable. Because orbiting plexes for 5-10min in stabbed merlins was easy, people did it.
But.........
We wouldn't be having this discussion if FW didn't get changed. FW rarely got mentioned before 2012. It wasn't important and few people did it. Now that there are hundreds of people flying around FW all day, you are complaining that alot of them are stabbed.
If it wasn't for the changes that made stabbing merlins popular you wouldn't have the problem of finding so many people in every system flying around in ships to complain about.
So think about the chicken and egg logic there.
Imagine what you will know tomorrow. |
Rancor Kane
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2013.01.09 07:50:00 -
[37] - Quote
Takanuro wrote:Rancor Kane wrote:maybe we could make them useless just after jumping gates as well, so nasty ravens with 5 stabs that get away from a gate camp.
Shields and armor should also be deactivated when I try to shoot someone they keep my damage from it's true potential.
If he leaves the plex he's done farming that one and can only continue when you leave the plex again. good job.
I am not suggesting anything about the effectiveness of warp core stabilisers or stargate mechanics. Please comprehend the OP. I am just proposing an idea as FW has severe problems with plex farming that go against the spirit and purpose of the FW feature of EVE. Please troll somewhere else.
And I was quite serious, sarcastic maybe, but quite serious.
If a system is broken, because of 1 mod, the system wasn't right in the first place.
But the system isn't broken.
FW community wanted a way to earn a buck, as well as doing FW, aside from the missions since they would redirect you from the taking of plexes-> systems. A sollid request, I can remember having a hard time in my early FW period, to keep the ISk crane running, while the hull where shot from under my Pod.
Second request was to bring more meaning to the capture of systems, they did this by station block and by placing datacores to the LP stores of factions.
Now from and endless sea of empty systems FW lowsec turned to a rather high populated area, because people could earn a buck, people would need the Datacore's for their industrial alt's ect ect.
And people started to use the new options to their best intrest, mind not your best intrest, just as the rest of EVE.
NO where in FW is it stated that you need to engage the enemy, when he arives, and even way beore FW was profitable people would flee a plex when someone entered, no change is going to make people engage you if they think they have the disadvantage, nor should it.
You want to get rid of the farmers, remove the profit, though mind that instead of people fleeing you have a hard time inding any people at al, not to mention more than half the FW players claimimg to be Die hards (not saying they aren't) have farming alts them self.
Reconsider your tactics, fly in packs, and take your hits and quit yapping about people using the best tactic to counter your attacks. |
Aemonn Ikari
Black Rise Guerilla Forces
0
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Posted - 2013.01.09 09:24:00 -
[38] - Quote
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:Keep in mind also that warping around ON GRID is a valid and sometimes very successful tactic in PVP. In a plex, I might set up a bunch of bounce points all 200km from one another ahead of time, then as soon as you get there, I can engage you, and essentially dictate the range of battle without having to entirely rely on prop mods
You can't warp around in plexes and on grid with the acceleration gate. The mechanics of FW plexes completely eliminate tactical warping, you always land directly at the acceleration gate when warping and not at your actual target.
Even without warp core stabs, if you pay attention to d-scan an enemy pilot won't be able to catch you inside a plex, as you usually have sufficient time to align and warp out before they enter. This is a valid tactic, you don't have to take the fight if the enemy comes with vastly superior numbers or shiny ships.
Fitting warp core stabilizers in almost all cases means that you don't intend to ever fight. There are some exceptions, especially if you are using weapons that don't need targeting, but this change would still hit almost exclusively farmers, mostly those that don't pay enough attention to d-scan, and not pilots that intend to fight. |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Heavy Industries Sick N' Twisted
206
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Posted - 2013.01.09 09:44:00 -
[39] - Quote
There's also the option of getting in a Tornado and waiting away from the acceleration gate and giving said farmer some alpha. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
nikon56
UnSkilleD Inc. Reverberation Project
21
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Posted - 2013.01.09 09:51:00 -
[40] - Quote
Alaekessa wrote:Felsusguy wrote:No. If they want to use warp stabilizers, that's fine. What's next, no MWDs in Plexes because it's for PVP, and if it's PVP there are warp jammers? Warp core stabilizers are to allow you to warp away even if jammed, not to prevent PVP. If you don't want to die, don't die. Besides, warp core stabilizers are underpowered as is. They horribly reduce your ability to lock onto targets and require multiple of them to work against scramblers. Farming is bad, but warp core stabilizers are a completely legitimate and viable option to escape from an unwinnable fight. Please define "unwinnable fight". Have you ever participated in Faction Warfare? Do you know anything about Faction Warfare Plexes? Warp stabs have a place and that place is on small, high-value haul ships, not in the low-slots of FW farmers. wcs place is on any ship provided the pilot is willing to scrifice his trageting range and sig radius for an additional warp strenght point.
it's like the cloacking device, can be fitted to any ship, giving you a serious advantage provided you accept the drawback.
everything has a counter in eve, disrupt / scram have WCS.
guess what, wcs can be countered too, learn to do it, if they are smart enought to counter you, then be smart and counter them.
add point, whether it is using more mods, faction mods, specific ships (lachesis / arazu anyone?) or the perfect counter, hictors.
there are solution, no need to ban anything from anywhere.
i often "miss" kills because of WCS, but that's how the game works.
i adapted, and changed fitting, or asked friend to use his seboed hictor -> problem solved
what will it be next time, ban ECM drones / mods, because even when i point him, he managed to ECM me and warp off?
or nano fiber and polycarbon mods, cause man, this stabber is sooo fast against my armor vexor i cannot get in range? |
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Zappity
Kurved Space
20
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Posted - 2013.03.30 00:10:00 -
[41] - Quote
Signed. WCS in plexes are used 99% for farming. And farming is not good for the game. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Neal Altol
desolate fools
6
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Posted - 2013.03.30 00:54:00 -
[42] - Quote
I would say ban them but the number of times that just orbiting the beacon at 29km going 4km/sec and people fail to get into range of me makes me think that not having them wouldn't change anything.
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Tara Tyrael
Dark Requiem K.626
63
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Posted - 2013.03.30 01:54:00 -
[43] - Quote
REMOVE HIGHSEC.... oh wait, wrong thread...
REMOVE COVOPS... oh wait, its not about this...
REMOVE LOCAL CHAT!!! .... hm... still not correct topic...
Ah, yea, REMOVE WARP CORE STABS !!!
Also, CCP can you please make if I establish lock on enemy and if I have more DPS and tank then he insta blows up, seems only fair... Service: Corp creation (Amarr/Caldari) |
Jacid
Sacrificial Lambs The Devil's Warrior Alliance
19
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Posted - 2013.03.30 02:58:00 -
[44] - Quote
Arazu / Lachisis / Hictor / Keres / Interceptor of the point range variety .. nope definatly no counters to stabs at 30 K away going to quit eve now.. anybody thats interested in my stuff meet me on the rancer gate in low sec ill jet can it for you. |
Alxea
Unstable Pirate Sharks Of The Damed Sea
117
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Posted - 2013.03.30 03:01:00 -
[45] - Quote
Takanuro wrote:Faction Warfare is for PVP, this is how CCP market it.
Scenario:
You see a Tristan on scan at a novice plex. You warp to said plex and activate the gate. You discover it's a valid war target, lock target, activate Scram or Disruptor but wait.....War Target warps off.
My suggestion is that Warp Core Stabilisers are not capatible with the Acceleration gates into FW Plexes. If we are all here to PVP then Warp Core Stabilisers have no place in the combat arena. Tristans, Caracals, Vexors, Dragoons, that's just the last few ships I've come across that have been 'stabbed-up' to avoid combat.
This is just another tool for farmers, a situation that CCP is allowing to get way too far out of hand.
Having to fit 3 Warp Disruptors on my Condor just to try and point a target is crazy and gimps my ships against anything that actually might want to fight.
Please help the PVP pilots as people are losing faith in FW as a PVP environment.
p.s If you do make this change, please make sure that Ventures cannot get into plexes either.
Thank you. Taka.
Or you can fly a HIC with a T2 scripted point. |
Seranova Farreach
Friendship is Missles
439
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Posted - 2013.03.30 03:11:00 -
[46] - Quote
LOLMAD stab haters, double point > 2x stab. "know your enemy" if the enemy uses stabs you use double scram or scram+disrupt instead of whining about it! |
Zappity
Kurved Space
20
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Posted - 2013.03.30 03:11:00 -
[47] - Quote
Alxea wrote:Takanuro wrote:Faction Warfare is for PVP, this is how CCP market it.
Scenario:
You see a Tristan on scan at a novice plex. You warp to said plex and activate the gate. You discover it's a valid war target, lock target, activate Scram or Disruptor but wait.....War Target warps off.
My suggestion is that Warp Core Stabilisers are not capatible with the Acceleration gates into FW Plexes. If we are all here to PVP then Warp Core Stabilisers have no place in the combat arena. Tristans, Caracals, Vexors, Dragoons, that's just the last few ships I've come across that have been 'stabbed-up' to avoid combat.
This is just another tool for farmers, a situation that CCP is allowing to get way too far out of hand.
Having to fit 3 Warp Disruptors on my Condor just to try and point a target is crazy and gimps my ships against anything that actually might want to fight.
Please help the PVP pilots as people are losing faith in FW as a PVP environment.
p.s If you do make this change, please make sure that Ventures cannot get into plexes either.
Thank you. Taka. Or you can fly a HIC with a T2 scripted point.
Yay, well done for not having a clue! You won't get into the frigate plexes with these ships. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Seranova Farreach
Friendship is Missles
439
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Posted - 2013.03.30 03:20:00 -
[48] - Quote
RavenTesio wrote:[quote=Joelleaveek]
More importantly it doesn't solve the main issue that these null-sec carebears are destroying markets meant to cover the costs of OUR PvP ... not their costs of coming down whenever they're bored to squish us.
The changes to Faction Warfare, some of the ideas have been good; but frankly this focus on LP and ISK honestly has pissed me off since Inferno launched. I will guarentee as well the second the Gallente complete their final push to secure the last remaining systems under Caldari 'control' ... the LP farmers will again move somewhere else, likely the Minmatar or Amarr where they will once again apply their locus trade - destroy their war zone as well (far more than their current LP farmers have).
They are little more than locusts destroying the economy of the game and exploiting mechanics intended to help fund the Faction Warfare PvP. I guarentee within the next couple of months, probably before Fanfest we're going to be back at the situation we were originally (if we aren't already) where for the pilots who actually care about FW rather than those who are just trying to make a quick ISK; that Warzone control is effectively meaningless past bragging rights.
didn't this actually start when CCP let alliances sign up to FW? and then the goons came and messed it up made minmatar into the farmers place of choise for quite a while and gallente prospered by proxy.
id think remove alliances from FW once again could help fix or curb this trend or maybe if they have/hold SOV they cannot sign up to FW, that way smaller non SOV holders can join FW keeping it healthy(ish) |
Aglais
Liberation Army Li3 Federation
194
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Posted - 2013.03.30 04:30:00 -
[49] - Quote
Solution: Bend your fit to include two points, or use a stronger, more expensive one.
Easier, cheaper solution: Bring a friend. Or multiple friends. Many points will overwhelm a WCS, and in fact, the WCS will then be the millstone around the neck of your target making them an easier kill, IIRC.
Easiest, cheapest solution: Whine on the forums. |
Zappity
Kurved Space
20
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Posted - 2013.03.30 04:37:00 -
[50] - Quote
Great idea. Faction point on a cheap T1 frigate built to be lost in droves. Don't know why I didn't think of that before. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
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Aglais
Liberation Army Li3 Federation
194
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Posted - 2013.03.30 04:44:00 -
[51] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Great idea. Faction point on a cheap T1 frigate built to be lost in droves. Don't know why I didn't think of that before.
See option two. Share the PvP with friends. It's not that hard. |
Zappity
Kurved Space
20
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Posted - 2013.03.30 04:48:00 -
[52] - Quote
Aglais wrote:Zappity wrote:Great idea. Faction point on a cheap T1 frigate built to be lost in droves. Don't know why I didn't think of that before. See option two. Share the PvP with friends. It's not that hard.
Sure. What if I want to fly solo? Why do you feel the need to defend a pure farming tactic? Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Aglais
Liberation Army Li3 Federation
195
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Posted - 2013.03.30 05:31:00 -
[53] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Aglais wrote:Zappity wrote:Great idea. Faction point on a cheap T1 frigate built to be lost in droves. Don't know why I didn't think of that before. See option two. Share the PvP with friends. It's not that hard. Sure. What if I want to fly solo? Why do you feel the need to defend a pure farming tactic?
I may be missing some context here. How is being on the side of small gang PvP encouraging farming? I'm not trying to defend a 'pure farming tactic', I'm just saying that there are ways around cowards fitting WCS to their expendable frigates that they're sending into warzones, if you really want kills. |
DataRunner Attor
Independent Confederacy of Worlds
77
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Posted - 2013.03.30 05:42:00 -
[54] - Quote
I honestly think warp stabs should get a buff....Like, a buff that if you have enough warp stability you can warp out of bubbles, or even through them....Then again deep space transports would so abuse that with their 7+ warp stability ability =) |
Zappity
Kurved Space
20
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Posted - 2013.03.30 09:05:00 -
[55] - Quote
Aglais wrote:Zappity wrote:Aglais wrote:Zappity wrote:Great idea. Faction point on a cheap T1 frigate built to be lost in droves. Don't know why I didn't think of that before. See option two. Share the PvP with friends. It's not that hard. Sure. What if I want to fly solo? Why do you feel the need to defend a pure farming tactic? I may be missing some context here. How is being on the side of small gang PvP encouraging farming? I'm not trying to defend a 'pure farming tactic', I'm just saying that there are ways around cowards fitting WCS to their expendable frigates that they're sending into warzones, if you really want kills.
OK, that's a reasonable response. I guess coming onto the forums straight after running into half a dozen WCS fit farmers isn't a good idea. :) Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Onomerous
Shockwave Innovations Shockwave Sovereign Industries
50
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Posted - 2013.03.30 14:40:00 -
[56] - Quote
FW:
Does that mean freaking whiners?
Between this and the 'anyone neutral who enters a FW plex should automatically go suspect" idea... I suspect it is just a minor number of players in FW with these ideas but maybe not?
There are plenty of counters as mentioned already. Counter the stabs and prosper!! |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1623
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Posted - 2013.03.30 15:16:00 -
[57] - Quote
My point on this topic: instead of making it harder to run, add a reason to stay.
backwards running timers if nobody is in the plex a eve-style bounty system (done)-á dust boarding parties You fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14642
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Posted - 2013.03.30 16:48:00 -
[58] - Quote
Onomerous wrote:FW:
Does that mean freaking whiners?
Between this and the 'anyone neutral who enters a FW plex should automatically go suspect" idea... I suspect it is just a minor number of players in FW with these ideas but maybe not?
There are plenty of counters as mentioned already. Counter the stabs and prosper!! Indeed.
Nice necro Zappity. How about using the tools CCP provides? L2P Malcanis for CSM 8. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Zappity
Kurved Space
86
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Posted - 2013.05.17 10:16:00 -
[59] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Onomerous wrote:FW:
Does that mean freaking whiners?
Between this and the 'anyone neutral who enters a FW plex should automatically go suspect" idea... I suspect it is just a minor number of players in FW with these ideas but maybe not?
There are plenty of counters as mentioned already. Counter the stabs and prosper!! Indeed. Nice necro Zappity. How about using the tools CCP provides? L2P
Thanks Mag's. Here's another, just for you!
I just stumbled across a player in the Minnie TLF called "Plexy McAltAlt". Great name. I guess he's using the tools CCP is providing - maybe I should L2P his way. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
539
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Posted - 2013.05.17 10:20:00 -
[60] - Quote
I would say its emergent gameplay. CCP changed FW the way that your presence in plex is enough to achieve something, no shooting, no pvp, nothing at all, just your presence. So people fit their ships to fulfill FW purpose, being there while minimizing their losses and avoid any pvp (which isnt required for FW). All fine, at the current sheme of things, fitting stabs for farming FW is all right and makes sense. |
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