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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
Shepard Book
Underground Stargate
131
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Posted - 2013.01.10 13:01:00 -
[691] - Quote
Sad to see hurricane nerfed yet again and in many categories. |
Mund Richard
252
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Posted - 2013.01.10 13:11:00 -
[692] - Quote
dexington wrote:In relation to PvP and drones i think the myrmidon looks good, you need to choose between ewar or full dps, which i think is okay otherwise drone boats would be to flexible. Ok... Just looking at my sig you can tell I'm biased... But why do I have -1 slot on my drone ships, if I only have one primary damage drone flight (for which it's damage output was balanced in mind with), and my guns alone do sub-cruiser level damage?
Thus far I felt it was in return for the flexibility or something. Now I'm no longer sure. Wish there was a Rogue Drone Faction Battleship... Infested Domi! Including all the wiggly bits to tend to your swarm, droneboat role bonus, and ofc with turrets. |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
582
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Posted - 2013.01.10 13:21:00 -
[693] - Quote
El'Kaniery wrote:no guy
Old harbinger with skill V CPU 468.75 PWG 1875 New Harbinger with skill V CPU 437.5 PWG 1656.25
Heavy pulse II with skill CPU 26.3 PWG 187.2
You less -4.95 CPU and -31.55 PWG
And before the modification it's was already difficult to fits the ship
Hmm, I forgot to apply skills to those base fitting changes, it seems I'm the idiot afteral in that regard.
Still, if you compare the new ships with realistic fits they've all lost a ton of tank and where the drake gets the most HP while having the lowest dps and the Cane getting the lowest HP while getting good dps the Harb that you can fit with these stats has HP exactly in the middle, same for dps, and can gain an advantage if it can make use of its larger dronebay.
HP wise the cane is still sitting sub 50k, the harb is sub 60k and the Drake is just over 60k (again, in realistic fits). I'm not seeing the issue much (other than me being wrong on the fitting thing), **** got nerfed which I'm fine with but I LIKE the buffs the Harb got regardless of it. Amat victoria curam. Excellence in everything.
Some guides that may be useful to you: http://www.youtube.com/user/OrdoArdish |
Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
124
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Posted - 2013.01.10 13:31:00 -
[694] - Quote
Edward Pierce wrote:Isn't a turret high on a missile bonus ship the ultimate utility high?
I have yet to see a single Raven fit a gun, even though it has that capability. :) Problem with Cyclone is that without the two turrets, itGÇÖll do less damage than Drake even against non-kinetic targets. ItGÇÖs only with those two turrets that it pulls ahead (more on this down with my Cyclone comment)
Anyway, let's see:
Prophecy: yay, a drone boat :) I really like how youGÇÖre giving Amarr a sort of, but not quite T1 missile line through the drone boats to prepare the Amarr player for the eventual Khanid line. I wonder if that means Khanid ships will get bigger drone bays too?
Harbinger: love it. More damage, bigger drone bay and less cap hungry, though it gets extra mass and slightly less tank.
Ferox: Most of the changes are cool (no more split weapon, yay!), though I'm not yet sure what to think of the unchanged bonuses. I mean, on the one hand, I love the optimal bonus, but on the other, lack of damage bonus kinda sucks. Then again, I'm not willing to part from the resist bonus either :D How will this translate into Rokh, which already gets outdamaged by Naga?
Frankly, I think you shot yourselves in the leg when you made Moa a brawler - if that were turned into a kiter, Ferox could then be made into a shield brawler without directly competing. Now you have to juggle between medium rails having no purpose and Ferox competing both against the Moa and the Naga. I wouldnGÇÖt want to be in your position.
Drake: I would have honestly prefered the "mini Raven" version that you initially played around with. I'll need to run numbers to see if this can still get cap stable with perma MWD - killing that would go a long way to killing drake blobs. Losing utility high sucks, but then I was always of the opinion that the utility highs should be placed on dedicated close range or kiter ships. Drake is neither. Also, brick is now even more brick.
I'm putting this into the undecided cathegory - if the ship's passive tank is still viable and the Podla drake can still work, but you managed to kill the perma-MWD, I'll give it a thumbs up, else it gets a thumbs down.
Brutix: I don't have enough experience with hybrid gallente boats to really comment on it, so passing the judgement to someone more competent in this regard.
Myrmidon: I like it, a bit more drone damage, this is the damage variant, while prophecy is the more tanky of the two.
Cyclone: I love it that it's a missile boat now, but I'm not sure about the split weapon systems. With 5 lows and preference to active shield tanking, I'm guessing the cyclone will be fit for max gank, which should put its dps between 352 (4x BCUII + 5 HM launchers) and 565 (4x BCUII, 5 HAM launchers, 2 425mm ACs). Add about 100 for drones if using Hammerhead IIs. For comparison, a 6 launcher Cyclone would have HAM dps of 589 (plus drones). I would have prefered the 6-launcher version, but I can live with this version too. I'm also guessing there will be plenty of people who will skip the turrets for utility, then complain how bad the Cyclone's dps is. Further testing required, but generally favourable.
EDIT: I just read one of the responses above and realized that two turrets here could be used for exploration for only about 70 dps less. With this in mind, I'm liking Cyclone a lot :D
Hurricane: ouch, cap sure got axed. And I was just thinking the other day how much easier Cane is to get cap stable with armor tank compared to Harbi - well, there goes that :p It seems you really decided to nerf the hell out of Cane and Drake, didn't ya? :D
Overall:
Favorites - Prophecy, Harbinger, Cyclone (need to test it) Undecided - Ferox, Drake |
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
394
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Posted - 2013.01.10 13:36:00 -
[695] - Quote
7 blasters on a ferox... yeeeeeeyy |
El'Kaniery
Aries Engineering Quasar Generation
0
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Posted - 2013.01.10 13:36:00 -
[696] - Quote
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Hmm, I forgot to apply skills to those base fitting changes, it seems I'm the idiot afteral in that regard.
Still, if you compare the new ships with realistic fits they've all lost a ton of tank and where the drake gets the most HP while having the lowest dps and the Cane getting the lowest HP while getting good dps the Harb that you can fit with these stats has HP exactly in the middle, same for dps, and can gain an advantage if it can make use of its larger dronebay.
HP wise the cane is still sitting sub 50k, the harb is sub 60k and the Drake is just over 60k (again, in realistic fits). I'm not seeing the issue much (other than me being wrong on the fitting thing), **** got nerfed which I'm fine with but I LIKE the buffs the Harb got regardless of it.
Yes and no
The buff of DPS is interesting clr. Your decrease the tanking why not. But in this case the ship most be more agile.
Remember the problem with the gallente : No speed but heavy dps and medium tank that was simply not really playable because you can put your dps on the target.
Now the harbinger look excaclty the same the range and dps look good only.
Because you not have the agility and speed to put your ammo short range, you certainly must be to use only the long range t2 ammo. the dps is not really the same and the range is not terrible about 24 km.
The harbinger look like the drake but in armor. But you have more problem with fitting, range , and capa.
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Recoil IV
Air The Unthinkables
80
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Posted - 2013.01.10 13:45:00 -
[697] - Quote
for the love of god at least give cyclone 7 launchers. |
Mund Richard
252
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Posted - 2013.01.10 13:50:00 -
[698] - Quote
Recoil IV wrote:for the love of god at least give cyclone 7 launchers. Tone that down to 6 and I'll agree. Wish there was a Rogue Drone Faction Battleship... Infested Domi! Including all the wiggly bits to tend to your swarm, droneboat role bonus, and ofc with turrets. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
253
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Posted - 2013.01.10 13:51:00 -
[699] - Quote
dexington wrote:Cyaron wars wrote:NEW AI? So you are talking only about PVE version? Or am I missing something? Yes i was talking about PvE, but i guess the same applies to PvP where bringing heavies means you lose the utility from ewar drones.
You wouldn't carry heavies in PvP you have to be in blaster range and have a scramed target for them to catch/hit anything. ...and in return you loose your EC- drones and frigate swatters.
100MB bandwidth is cool for PvE, kinda or possibly a sentry fleet a la Ishtar mass drone drop.....
There was a reason that beyond baiting and multi-repper solo fist you didn't see many myrms. |
Jerick Ludhowe
The Nyan Cat Pirates The Retirement Club
337
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Posted - 2013.01.10 13:54:00 -
[700] - Quote
Connall Tara wrote:Woo! Brutix: hrm... I'm torn here. On one hand I'm not a fan of the 7.5% active tank bonus because of the current state of active armour repping... HOWEVER there is a lot of hinting from fairly credible sources that active armour tanking might be on the books pretty damn soon.
The problem with the 7.5% bonus, regardless of the strength of armor reppers is thatit's simpyl relatively worse than a resistance bonus. There have been countless threads discussing the short comings of 7.5% rep compared to 5% resistance, the biggest being the very minimal difference in active tanking between ships equiped with said bonuses.
What needs to happen, independent of an armor repper pass, is an increase of the active bonus on the brutix, and all active hulls to 10% per level. Or to simply nerf resistance bonuses to 4% per level. Currently a 7.5% rep amount ship has like 3% more active tank than a 5% resistance ship while receiving weaker logi support, and having much less ehp. The active bonus needs to be buffed to make it at least stand out in it's niche, 3% advantage is not enough compared to the tradeoffs.
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Vince Grant
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
7
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Posted - 2013.01.10 13:57:00 -
[701] - Quote
Why not just leave the tier 2 battlecruisers as they are now, and just apply the changes to tier 1's? The tier 1's look interesting, but tier 2 looks useless.. |
Jerick Ludhowe
The Nyan Cat Pirates The Retirement Club
337
|
Posted - 2013.01.10 14:00:00 -
[702] - Quote
Vince Grant wrote:Why not just leave the tier 2 battlecruisers as they are now, and just apply the changes to tier 1's? The tier 1's look interesting, but tier 2 looks useless..
Negative
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Mund Richard
253
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Posted - 2013.01.10 14:01:00 -
[703] - Quote
Vince Grant wrote:Why not just leave the tier 2 battlecruisers as they are now, and just apply the changes to tier 1's? The tier 1's look interesting, but tier 2 looks useless.. My guess would be that they want both battleships and cruisers become more appealing by toning down the prominence of BCs.
I mean, when new players ask what they should skill for, what was the default answer (At least where I saw them)? BC (and maybe cheap destroyers) in the T1 lineup, T2 frigs, T3 cruisers.
Destroyer and BC skilling is getting nerfed, now BC hulls. Closing the gap between BCs and Cruisers on both sides makes cruisers more interesting. Making BCs less manouverable (and former tier2 somewhat less tanky) lets Battleships deal with them easier. Wish there was a Rogue Drone Faction Battleship... Infested Domi! Including all the wiggly bits to tend to your swarm, droneboat role bonus, and ofc with turrets. |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
583
|
Posted - 2013.01.10 14:06:00 -
[704] - Quote
El'Kaniery wrote:Vilnius Zar wrote:
Hmm, I forgot to apply skills to those base fitting changes, it seems I'm the idiot afteral in that regard.
Still, if you compare the new ships with realistic fits they've all lost a ton of tank and where the drake gets the most HP while having the lowest dps and the Cane getting the lowest HP while getting good dps the Harb that you can fit with these stats has HP exactly in the middle, same for dps, and can gain an advantage if it can make use of its larger dronebay.
HP wise the cane is still sitting sub 50k, the harb is sub 60k and the Drake is just over 60k (again, in realistic fits). I'm not seeing the issue much (other than me being wrong on the fitting thing), **** got nerfed which I'm fine with but I LIKE the buffs the Harb got regardless of it.
Yes and no The buff of DPS is interesting clr. Your decrease the tanking why not. But in this case the ship most be more agile. Remember the problem with the gallente : No speed but heavy dps and medium tank that was simply not really playable because you can put your dps on the target. Now the harbinger look excaclty the same the range and dps look good only. Because you not have the agility and speed to put your ammo short range, you certainly must be to use only the long range t2 ammo. the dps is not really the same and the range is not terrible about 24 km. The harbinger look like the drake but in armor. But you have more problem with fitting, range , and capa. Try to use the harbinger in mwd you loose the advantage of the signature. you have more problem with your capa. In afterburner, you are really very slow (add a plate 1600mm ). And the inertia is really bad. the tracking of the medium laser is not good. Really you look like a sentry.
Yup, and that is why I'm fully expecting an upcoming change to plates/mass and rigs (or conversely, shield extenders getting a speed/agility penalty).
Amat victoria curam. Excellence in everything.
Some guides that may be useful to you: http://www.youtube.com/user/OrdoArdish |
Shingorash
S T R A T C O M THORN Alliance
35
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Posted - 2013.01.10 14:14:00 -
[705] - Quote
The armor repair bonus crap needs to go, its a waste of time, resists bonus would be better.
Also on the Brutix wouldnt it be better to have + Damage and + Tracking like the Mega and Thorax, its natural progression surely? |
Tiberius Funk
Capital Gents Persona Non Gratis
0
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Posted - 2013.01.10 14:20:00 -
[706] - Quote
First of all, and I think this has been said a 100 times in this thread but just to reiterate, BCs (other than tier 3s) have a role bonus for gang links therefore every BC should have at least one utility high slot. SO WHY ON GODS GOOD EARTH HAVE THE HIGHS GENERALLY BEEN REMOVED?!!?!?!? (EPICMOST FACE PALM). Common Fozzie, you've done an awesome job so far so don't fail on the BCs please. Also, please keep in mind that CCP Devs have a horrible habit of nerfbatting back to the bronze age anything that is well used by the players/considered overpowered e.g. Nos. So just because people like the Drake and the Cane please do not NERFHAMMER the arse off them. Admittedly, the Drake changes arenGÇÖt too bad but the Cane... (sigh). Both took a bit of a beating with the last patch what with heavies getting a clobbering and the cane losing its grid so please leave well be. The only thing you could do with the Drake is maybe lose the resists bonus and give it double damage a la the binger and cane or give it a missile velocity bonus and combine that change with a speed increase. Having said that we're looking at COMBAT battlecruisers that are supposed to get stuck in and stay on field not run in, smash u in the face and run away again.
Also DON'T remove any slots on the tier 2s just add slots to the tier 1s FTW. All BCs should have 18 slots. The tier 3s only have 17 on the basis that they have overpowered guns and are lightweight and speedy. Oh, and the fact they're already AWESOME :)
So here's my 2 penneth on each ship:
Prophecy - I like the drone boat idea but it needs 2 extra highs and at least one if not two extra turrets/launchers. Possibly a little extra speed and not sure why the grid has been hammered. So you'd have a slot layout of 7/4/7.
Harbinger - Is fine barring the cpu/grid nerf and the high slot that's been taken. Although I haven't fitted a binger since the change to medium energy weapons so not sure how well it fits. Ideally you want to get the same as a shield cane but be able to fit 2 Nos say in highs (CUE FLAME AT MENTION OF NOS on any ship other than a frigate)** Also a slight speed buff so it can get in and out and kite as it doesn't have an kind of bonus to tanking. Oh, please leave shield level alone or round it to say 3500.
Ferox - FOR GOD'S SAKE GIVE THE POOR THING A DAMAGE BONUS INSTEAD OF OPTIMAL!!!!!!! It will need an extra high slot as a utility slot. If you give it a damage bonus you might have to lose a turret i.e 6 turrets. Also, it needs to be able to get into range quickly so a bit of extra speed please.
Drake - Fine, just don't lose the high slot and leave the cpu and grid alone OR do as suggested in my first paragraph (which I know everyone will hate!)
Brutix GÇô OMGWTF POINTLESS ARMOUR REP BONUS!!! Either double damage it like the cane and binger or give it an optimal range bonus. A bit extra speed for kiting purposes as well wouldnGÇÖt go amiss. Also, needs an extra high as a utility slot and agreed with extra low. Maybe 3750 or 4000 shields, maybe.
Myrmidon GÇô Needs 7 highs, otherwise happy with the changes, notably the extra drone bandwith (and now for the Eos? 125 bandwith PLEASE!) People have winged about the armour rep bonus on the myrm but if youGÇÖve ever flown a triple repper myrm you know how good they are. On that point, maybe leave the grid alone or donGÇÖt kick it in the nuts as much.
Cyclone GÇô LOVING THIS!!!! BUTGǪ at least 6 launchers needed please! Keep the 8 highs. Oh, whilst IGÇÖm here, maybe slightly buff ASBs so that they can carry a couple more charges. They were ridiculous before admittedly. Or put them back almost as they were but make it so you can only fit 1 per ship. Anyway, Cyclone new darling of the pvp and pve crowd GO!!!!
Hurricane GÇô LEAVE IT ALONE!!! ItGÇÖs a great ship, itGÇÖs had itGÇÖs nerf but itGÇÖs still good to fly. Nuff said.
As a final word, please try and keep the ships varied. If we end up with ships for different races doing pretty much exactly the same thing its gonna be boring. Hence not 100% sure about the double damage bonus on the binger as is a little too canesque for my liking.
TibbeH!
**Nos SSHHHHHERIOUSHLY needs a buff after it took a right royal nerf hammering. Please buff it so you can drain a ship dry but you will only get cap for your own ship up to say 33%-50% of your cap.
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Mund Richard
253
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Posted - 2013.01.10 14:21:00 -
[707] - Quote
Shingorash wrote:Also on the Brutix wouldnt it be better to have + Damage and + Tracking like the Mega and Thorax, its natural progression surely? The Talos also has it, so it's getting a bit cluttered, plus the Mega/Thorax, like the Talos are Attack ships, while the Brutix a Combat ship.
Now... Either one getting a falloff, and the other a tracking, I wouldn't oppose.
On the other hand, having two Active tanking BCs I kinda do. Only the Caldari have two tanking BCs as well, and theirs are 1) Shield 2) Passive. And BOTH were rumored BY CCP to loose their tanking bonus at one point or another (For RoF on Drake, for Damage on Ferox). What happened to that? Wish there was a Rogue Drone Faction Battleship... Infested Domi! Including all the wiggly bits to tend to your swarm, droneboat role bonus, and ofc with turrets. |
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
138
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Posted - 2013.01.10 14:25:00 -
[708] - Quote
Vilnius Zar wrote:Yup, and that is why I'm fully expecting an upcoming change to plates/mass and rigs (or conversely, shield extenders getting a speed/agility penalty).
This is why it would be helpful if Fozzie would announce any relevant module changes before or at the same time as ship changes. If there are tweaks in the works for plates, we should know about that before we whip out the calculators. If something exciting is going to happen to active armor tanking, we need to know more than "wink wink Santa's coming". Until we hear what the nudge nudge wink wink changes are, I'm going to assume that this will just follow CCP's usual plan of "we're doing this now because eventually we're going to do something that will make it cool".
If we don't have accurate information about the whole picture they have in mind, then there's little point in telling us what the ship changes are. If they want early feedback, we need more than half an idea of what's going on. |
Allandri
Liandri Industrial Liandri Covenant
20
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Posted - 2013.01.10 14:25:00 -
[709] - Quote
Turn the Ferox into a big Moa! |
Kraschyn Thek'athor
Asgard Ammunitions
6
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Posted - 2013.01.10 14:39:00 -
[710] - Quote
To use the Brutix with Blasters, it has to come close. Why not doing the same trick, like the Assault Frigs?
Swap the active repper bonus with an 12% MWD Signature reduction/Level. This would give them an MWD Signature similiar to an Cruiser. |
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Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
30
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Posted - 2013.01.10 14:52:00 -
[711] - Quote
Royal Hammer wrote:With the recent bonuses to medium laser turrets, I was looking forward to my Harbinger being a competitive ship, even though it's slightly outclassed by two other popular battlecruisers. But now...ouch. Amarr can't get no love. Maybe make the nerf a teensy bit less bad?
Welcome to the Caldari Club. |
Mund Richard
253
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Posted - 2013.01.10 14:53:00 -
[712] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote: Welcome to the Caldari Club. Wait. If everyone claims his side is worse off, whom are we supposed to be rallying against?
Wish there was a Rogue Drone Faction Battleship... Infested Domi! Including all the wiggly bits to tend to your swarm, droneboat role bonus, and ofc with turrets. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
30
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Posted - 2013.01.10 14:53:00 -
[713] - Quote
I'm going to miss the utility slots that are disapeering from some BC as for small gangs they are really useful. It will make people who like to spider tank or carry reppers for post combat repairs in the field think twice about fitting them as to do so will invariably lower their dps. In balance I think it's a good thing. |
Vince Grant
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
7
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Posted - 2013.01.10 14:54:00 -
[714] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:Vince Grant wrote:Why not just leave the tier 2 battlecruisers as they are now, and just apply the changes to tier 1's? The tier 1's look interesting, but tier 2 looks useless.. Negative
Very constructive.. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
30
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Posted - 2013.01.10 14:56:00 -
[715] - Quote
Mund Richard wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote: Welcome to the Caldari Club. Wait. If everyone claims his side is worse off, whom are we supposed to be rallying against?
I was just making the point that in the 300 page+ heavy missile nerf thread., loads of people were posting that CCP hates Caldari and to be fair a great deal of posters were very unsympathetic to yet another Caldari nerf. Hence the sarcasm evident in my post. I don't bother me though as I do Amarr, as far as I can see we're starting to see some love. I cant wait to try out the rebalanced Harbinger. |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
288
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Posted - 2013.01.10 15:17:00 -
[716] - Quote
The active tanks actually can be very nice, however the ships need to have enough buffer for the reps to make a difference... I do however think it's a shame for both the Brutix and the Myrmidon to have an active rep bonus as well as I really hoped the Drake would lose the resist bonus for a more aggressive role creating more diversity in flavour for both Gallente and Caldari. |
Eliza DoLots
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.01.10 15:32:00 -
[717] - Quote
Give the Applicable Gallente ships (Brutix, especially) MORE then just a 5% weapons bonus. Now that Caldari is starting to recieve those bonuses too Gallente needs a reaffirmation of there upclose and personal DPS. It would make the 7.5% repair more tolerable since the ship would have something else to make it shine.
Since Caldari and Gallente both use Hybrid guns...the ship bonuses is what needs to be tweaked harder to make them more unique to fly. |
Gypsio III
Chemikals Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
487
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Posted - 2013.01.10 15:36:00 -
[718] - Quote
Allandri wrote:Turn the Ferox into a big Moa!
Then what would be the point of the Moa? |
Gypsio III
Chemikals Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
487
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Posted - 2013.01.10 15:41:00 -
[719] - Quote
Tiberius Funk wrote:First of all, and I think this has been said a 100 times in this thread but just to reiterate, BCs (other than tier 3s) have a role bonus for gang links therefore every BC should have at least one utility high slot. SO WHY ON GODS GOOD EARTH HAVE THE HIGHS GENERALLY BEEN REMOVED?!!?!?!?
To force a choice between weapons and gang links. Battlecruisers have long suffered from being too good at too many things. There's no point in fitting requirements if you can just fit whatever you like all of the time.
Quote:**Nos SSHHHHHERIOUSHLY needs a buff after it took a right royal nerf hammering. Please buff it so you can drain a ship dry but you will only get cap for your own ship up to say 33%-50% of your cap.
Then what would be the point of neuts? The mechanism of nos is perfect, it just needs tweaks to fitting requirements and drain amount. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
30
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Posted - 2013.01.10 15:42:00 -
[720] - Quote
Eliza DoLots wrote:Give the Applicable Gallente ships (Brutix, especially) MORE then just a 5% weapons bonus. Now that Caldari is starting to recieve those bonuses too Gallente needs a reaffirmation of there upclose and personal DPS. It would make the 7.5% repair more tolerable since the ship would have something else to make it shine.
Since Caldari and Gallente both use Hybrid guns...the ship bonuses is what needs to be tweaked harder to make them more unique to fly.
Don't forget though that CCP don't like you having unique ships to fly at least not in their version of 'balance' what they are actually aiming for is for everyone to be the same so that you can just train a given race and have at it. Diversity is on the way out, 'Balance (read uniformity) is on the way in'.
Pretty soon it won't even matter what skills you have, let alone what ship you fly... |
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