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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
Mund Richard
235
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Posted - 2013.01.08 22:38:00 -
[121] - Quote
arbalesttom wrote:WOW
you guys think about the whole bc tiericide for a couple of months, and this is all you can come up with??? (i.e. nerfing the ships that where perfectly fine, and leave the **** ones as they are pretty much)
i am dissapoint You know... out of a balancing POW, if they wanted all the BCs to be equally good (or bad) and have people use more different ships, assuming it is as you describe, it could work! Wish there was a Rogue Drone Faction Battleship... Infested Domi! Including all the wiggly bits to tend to your swarm, droneboat role bonus, and ofc with turrets. |
Torri Bernard
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2013.01.08 22:38:00 -
[122] - Quote
John Valentine wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:4LeafClover wrote: Have you ever flown a typhoon? Don't worry if you haven't, nobody else does either...the reason is a split weapon system...you only get a bonus to 4 turret slots? And just try to fit 3 gyros, and 3 ballistic controls in the lows.....useless. Wouldn't be awesome if the devs were going to revamp battleships too? I think it would. For the love of God dont let them touch the Battleships..you know the gonna nerf the **** out of the maelstrom and probally make the Tempest a missile boat.
Get ready for your drone boat geddon. |
TijsseN
NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation
4
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Posted - 2013.01.08 22:38:00 -
[123] - Quote
It seems to me that the proposed new split weapons systems for BC's make it even longer to fly a ship effectively (T2 weapon grind for both different weapons systems) adding on top of that the split of destroyer and battlecruiser skills into racial versions making it even harder to maximize your skills on a wide set of ships.
The current slot layout of every ship means that you can only effectively boost 1 weapon system and the second one becomes very ineffective. With a split weapon system you can only do less damage than with a hull with only one weapon system. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
401
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Posted - 2013.01.08 22:39:00 -
[124] - Quote
4LeafClover wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote: Right now Gallente is the ONLY race that has mulutple ships with split weapon systems.
You're kidding right? Well after the rebalance, they will be the only one left Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
Mund Richard
235
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Posted - 2013.01.08 22:39:00 -
[125] - Quote
John Valentine wrote: For the love of God dont let them touch the Battleships..you know the gonna nerf the **** out of the maelstrom and probally make the Tempest a missile boat. Good news!
The plan was to have the Phoon a missile boat instead!
Wish there was a Rogue Drone Faction Battleship... Infested Domi! Including all the wiggly bits to tend to your swarm, droneboat role bonus, and ofc with turrets. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2574
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Posted - 2013.01.08 22:42:00 -
[126] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: Harbinger: Battlecruiser skill bonuses: 10% (+5%) bonus to Medium Energy Turret Damage 10% bonus Medium Energy Turret capacitor use Fixed Bonus: 99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules Slot layout: 7 H (-1), 4 M, 6 L, 6 turrets (-1) Fittings: 1325 PWG (-175), 350 CPU (-25) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3000(-516) / 5000(-469) / 4500(-188) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 3125 / 822s(+72s) / 3.8 (-0.366) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 150 / 0.704 / 13800000 (+300,000) / 9.1s (+0.2) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 75 (+25) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km (+5) / 210 / 6 Sensor strength: 17 Radar (+1) Signature radius: 270 (+5) Cargo capacity: 375 (+25)
Ok, a few comments: - I approve of dropping a turret for a bigger bonus. - I disapprove of dropping fittings. It's already the hardest BC to fit by a lot. - You're hitting those defenses kinda hard. I can see swatting the shield HP, but armor too? I never really considered the Harbinger a particularly tanky ship. - You're smacking the **** out of it's mobility and it was already a giant fat ass. Combining armor tanking with a giant fat ass even before you fit plates is... dubious.
Honestly I'd trade the extra drone space for better mobility.
PS: Cyclone. Guns. Keep them. You know you want to. :)
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Torri Bernard
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2013.01.08 22:45:00 -
[127] - Quote
Jerrek Peacelord wrote:... Harbs: less of everything except the damage bonus. Well that's just brilliant. Cant WAIT to fly that in our nex....NOT! Prophecy: is anyone REALLY looking forward to flying a drone boat of this size with 75m3 for drones? ...
My point exactly. Armor based drone boats dont work. |
4LeafClover
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2013.01.08 22:48:00 -
[128] - Quote
Torri Bernard wrote:Jerrek Peacelord wrote:... Harbs: less of everything except the damage bonus. Well that's just brilliant. Cant WAIT to fly that in our nex....NOT! Prophecy: is anyone REALLY looking forward to flying a drone boat of this size with 75m3 for drones? ...
My point exactly. Armor based drone boats dont work.
Don't you know Torri....EVE players are supposed to adapt to the ships they fly.........only to have the ships get screwed and then have to try and adapt again......and again....
CCP, for the love of all that's holy, please leave the hurricane alone, unless you want to return it to it's pre-neutered state? That would be a great change. Thanks. |
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
139
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Posted - 2013.01.08 22:48:00 -
[129] - Quote
Wasn't the Harby already tight on CPU? I don't get making the lowest CPU BC even lower (and yes, I see you dropped a turret, but the CPU drop > 1 medium turret.) You shouldn't be nerfing Harby CPU more than 15.
(And iirc I've never flown a Harby fwiw.)
I liked EVE better when it had iconic ships like the rifter, the hurricane and the drake. As long as best in class ships were spread amongst all races (and not I-win buttons, just not insignificantly better than their peers,) it's not necessarily a bad thing (I'd argue it's a good thing that encouraged players to stick around and cross-train.) Ship balancing should have focused on making all ships useful, not equal, and certainly shouldn't have been used as an excuse to make previously best-in-class ships like the dramiel pretty terrible. |
Edward Pierce
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6
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Posted - 2013.01.08 22:50:00 -
[130] - Quote
TijsseN wrote:It seems to me that the proposed new split weapons systems for BC's make it even longer to fly a ship effectively (T2 weapon grind for both different weapons systems) adding on top of that the split of destroyer and battlecruiser skills into racial versions making it even harder to maximize your skills on a wide set of ships.
The current slot layout of every ship means that you can only effectively boost 1 weapon system and the second one becomes very ineffective. With a split weapon system you can only do less damage than with a hull with only one weapon system.
CCP Fozzie wrote:Dear Capsuleers. Two utility highslots is not the same as split weapons. All the best. -Love Fozzie
:Writing up a reply to more questions now:
He already answered this question, they are utility highs, it could be a turret, it could be a nos/neut, it could be a smartbomb, it could be a gang link, it could be a drone range extender, it could be a salvager, it could be a remote repper.
Can we move past this non-issue now? |
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Mund Richard
235
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Posted - 2013.01.08 22:51:00 -
[131] - Quote
Torri Bernard wrote: My point exactly. Armor based drone boats dont work. Before the Drone Damage Amplifier, they weren't too bad. Now you want both DDAs and heatsinks/magstabs/BCU() even on the base versions. Prophecy having 3 different weapons when fit for max damage is weird.
Wish there was a Rogue Drone Faction Battleship... Infested Domi! Including all the wiggly bits to tend to your swarm, droneboat role bonus, and ofc with turrets. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
401
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Posted - 2013.01.08 22:52:00 -
[132] - Quote
Edward Pierce wrote:TijsseN wrote:It seems to me that the proposed new split weapons systems for BC's make it even longer to fly a ship effectively (T2 weapon grind for both different weapons systems) adding on top of that the split of destroyer and battlecruiser skills into racial versions making it even harder to maximize your skills on a wide set of ships.
The current slot layout of every ship means that you can only effectively boost 1 weapon system and the second one becomes very ineffective. With a split weapon system you can only do less damage than with a hull with only one weapon system. CCP Fozzie wrote:Dear Capsuleers. Two utility highslots is not the same as split weapons. All the best. -Love Fozzie
:Writing up a reply to more questions now: He already answered this question, they are utility highs, it could be a turret, it could be a nos/neut, it could be a smartbomb, it could be a gang link, it could be a drone range extender, it could be a salvager, it could be a remote repper. Can we move past this non-issue now? maybe they should just remove the turret hard points Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
Sarmatiko
846
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Posted - 2013.01.08 22:57:00 -
[133] - Quote
John Valentine wrote: Belicose = Missile boat, Talwar = Missile Boat, Breacher = Missile Boat, and now the cyclone as well? WTF?
You forgot one thing. Just before rebalance it was just like this: Belicose = useless, Talwar = non existant, Breacher = useless. Cyclone = overshadowed by Hurricane. Sorry to mention this, but even your character flew only Hurricane, Rifter/Wolf, Thrasher (according to KB losses). So why you complaining about ships totally unrelated to your playstyle?
Returning back on topic, I would love to see +1 launcher on Cyclone.
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Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon
620
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Posted - 2013.01.08 22:59:00 -
[134] - Quote
They all look fine to me. Great balancing. Cyclone looks interesting, prophecy looks less useless.
(Ferox is mehhhhh still, but its a step in the right direction.) |
Kogh Ayon
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
69
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Posted - 2013.01.08 22:59:00 -
[135] - Quote
Brutix
The boost on brutix may not enough to make it a good solo ship, the problems : 1, odd damage type 2, damage type problem can be solved by drones, but there's dilemma at choosing ecm drones or Infiltrators/Valkyries (implies more drone bay) 3, No utility high to fit neut to kill mission ships, nor being able to fit cloak to travel into hostile space. (implies an utility high)
So the usage of armor brutix will still be restrict to ~5 man small gang, can't solo, can't join bigger fights.
Harbinger
Don't get the logic to nerf this ship, isn't it **** enough already that people even use omen rather than harbinger?
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Edward Pierce
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8
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Posted - 2013.01.08 23:00:00 -
[136] - Quote
Mund Richard wrote:Torri Bernard wrote: My point exactly. Armor based drone boats dont work. Before the Drone Damage Amplifier, they weren't too bad. Now you want both DDAs and heatsinks/magstabs/BCU( ) even on the base versions.
Or you could do like all other Amarr drone boats are doing and fit some nos/neut.
The prophecy looks like it could do well with 4 HM/HAM and a medium neut. The 75 bandwidth is exactly what the Myrmidon has now but with an extra low and a better tank bonus. |
Tsubutai
The Tuskers
146
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Posted - 2013.01.08 23:01:00 -
[137] - Quote
Is it intentional that the damage bonuses on the cyclone and drake don't affect rapid light missile launchers despite them nominally being cruiser-sized weapons? |
blackpatch
Eighty Joule Brewery Goonswarm Federation
17
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Posted - 2013.01.08 23:01:00 -
[138] - Quote
These changes are really underwhelming in comparison to the excellent T1 frigate/cruiser changes. The T1/T2 battlecruiser hulls are still far inferior to the T3 hulls for most practical applications.
The frigate/cruiser changes changed the game in a very good direction. They placed more power in the hands of newbees and opened up some of the exciting new T1 cruiser compositions we've been seeing recently. These proposed changes aren't going to do much of anything. T1/T2 battlecruisers will continue their slow slide into obsolescence.
In my opinion you need to go back to the drawing board, and use the T3 battlecruisers as a standard of comparison. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2578
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Posted - 2013.01.08 23:02:00 -
[139] - Quote
Sarmatiko wrote:John Valentine wrote: Belicose = Missile boat, Talwar = Missile Boat, Breacher = Missile Boat, and now the cyclone as well? WTF?
You forgot one thing. Just before rebalance it was just like this: Belicose = useless, Talwar = non existant, Breacher = useless. Cyclone = overshadowed by Hurricane. Sorry to mantion this, but even your character flew only Hurricane, Rifter/Wolf, Thrasher (according to KB losses). So why you complaining about ships totally unrelated to your playstyle? Returning back on topic, I would love yo see +1 launcher on Cyclone. Split system is bad.
The Cyclone was not overshadowed by the Hurricane. I'd have taken a Cyclone against a Hurricane any day, and that Cane was gonna die.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
3756
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Posted - 2013.01.08 23:04:00 -
[140] - Quote
4LeafClover wrote: How many missile snipe ships do you see out there......? "crickets"
How many cyclones do you see sniping out there.......? "crickets"
Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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FistyMcBumBasher
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
31
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Posted - 2013.01.08 23:05:00 -
[141] - Quote
After having reviewed these changes a little bit more.
The prophecy is going to be a much better drone boat than the myrm because of resist bonus and wonderfully massive drone bay. The prophecy is how I have always envisioned a drone boat. My experience with drone boats is that anyone would easily trade that extra 25 bandwidth for more variation in drones.
The drake is relatively unchanged from it's current version, as it rarely utilized the utility high.
Why the extra CPU on the Ferox? It has more than enough in it's current form.
Brutix and myrm having the same bonus is a bit silly because only one of them will be used for the active tanking ship. Give one of them another offensive bonus in my opinion, as two of the same niche bonus is a little uninspiring.
Let the haters hate, I look forward to flying the Cyclone especially since the cyclone is getting a buff to CPU and a new low (probably going to be filled with a co-pro). The damage projection will be larger and it will deal more consistent dps to larger targets when using HAMS. Is it possible to get the bonus to also apply to Rapid Light Assault Missile's? The two utility highs (or split weapon system as some people are saying) should give it some defense against lighter ships. I can see this ship replacing the Hurricane of old.
Hurricane is still the hurricane but without the possibility of two neuts. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
3756
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Posted - 2013.01.08 23:05:00 -
[142] - Quote
4LeafClover wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote: Right now Gallente is the ONLY race that has mulutple ships with split weapon systems.
You're kidding right?
List some.
Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Mund Richard
237
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Posted - 2013.01.08 23:07:00 -
[143] - Quote
Edward Pierce wrote:Mund Richard wrote:Torri Bernard wrote: My point exactly. Armor based drone boats dont work. Before the Drone Damage Amplifier, they weren't too bad. Now you want both DDAs and heatsinks/magstabs/BCU( ) even on the base versions. Or you could do like all other Amarr drone boats are doing and fit some nos/neut. The prophecy looks like it could do well with 4 HM/HAM and a medium neut. The 75 bandwidth is exactly what the Myrmidon has now but with an extra low and a better tank bonus. I suppose. So one neut, loosing two guns and one heavy's worth of bandwidth, for a better tanking bonus. Not quite sure... I'm inclined to try it though. Wish there was a Rogue Drone Faction Battleship... Infested Domi! Including all the wiggly bits to tend to your swarm, droneboat role bonus, and ofc with turrets. |
Lili Lu
659
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Posted - 2013.01.08 23:11:00 -
[144] - Quote
Oh Fozzie, I'm sorta underwhelmed and disappointed. Admittedly, I'm not yet crunching numbers to see what fits, but here are my impressions and worries -
Stupid 7.5 armor repairer bonus still on both gallente BCs? This is useless unless you imprve MARs, or massively up the grid, and if you do that then lots of people will just fit plates for fleet work. Then they will still be left with a ship with one used bonus.
The overdone 10% optimal still on the longest range guns in the game for the Ferox Can you not see the problem with giving rails the most base optimal and then topping it off with a 10% per level bonus on all the Caldari ships? Tone it down to 7.5%. And why are both Caldari BCs retaining a resist bonus? It is so much better than the peice of **** 7.5 armor repairer bonus on the gallente BCs. At least you didn't massively buff the Drake with a rof bonus. But, where is the "rebalancing" I was expecting when I opened this thread page?
Why is the Cyclone so much more blessed in fitting than the Cane now? ASB sure, but with all that grid I suppose you could fit a better armor tank on the damn thing than on the Cane as well. You already took a high away from the Cane. The dual neut phenomenon will be a thing of the past (unless someone wants to sacrifice a turret). So why is the cane going to be starved for grid (are 720s, a mwd, and a 1600 still possible?)?
Ugh, that prophecy. So it's now a vexor with more tank. Not very exciting tbh. And the Harby, still the 10% cap use reduction bonus. Nothing innovative here. Lasers are not all that that this ship can still do anything special. At least you are removing the irritating offset turret from below the nose. But what does this ship really have going for it? Still nothing special and the resist bonused Drakes and Feroxes will still be much preferred over it.
Laslty, you do not mention anything about fixing the BC shield regen imbalance. Still giving almost a BS sized shield an almost cruiser sized shield regen time leads to not enough nerf on the passive shield BC ubiquity. If some poor ******* has to still self nerf his own grid to fit a cap injector(s) and multiple MARs to make anything of the stupid armor repairer bonus on the gallente ships, but there is no increase in shield regen time on BCs overall the passive shield regen will still be better tank for pve in BCs than any cap charge nomnoming multi-MAR or milktoast single MAR tank on an armor BC.
Please start shaking these ships up some more. After so much relatively good work with Cruisers and Frigs, I am disappoint.
Edit - Having just read Sigras' post, lol so true. Now instead of 425 dual med neut canes I suppose we'll see HAM dual neut Cyclones instead. |
Sigras
Conglomo IMPERIAL LEGI0N
308
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Posted - 2013.01.08 23:12:00 -
[145] - Quote
so wait . . . you all seem upset that they took away the second high slot from the hurricane because you wanted that utility high . . .
Then in the same breath you scream that a split weapon system sucks on the cyclone because it has two utility highs?
forgive me if this sounds dumb but the hurricane has 2 missile launcher slots that it can fill those highs up with . . . why not complain about the hurricane's former split weapon system? |
Edward Pierce
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9
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Posted - 2013.01.08 23:15:00 -
[146] - Quote
Mund Richard wrote:Edward Pierce wrote:Mund Richard wrote:Torri Bernard wrote: My point exactly. Armor based drone boats dont work. Before the Drone Damage Amplifier, they weren't too bad. Now you want both DDAs and heatsinks/magstabs/BCU( ) even on the base versions. Or you could do like all other Amarr drone boats are doing and fit some nos/neut. The prophecy looks like it could do well with 4 HM/HAM and a medium neut. The 75 bandwidth is exactly what the Myrmidon has now but with an extra low and a better tank bonus. I suppose. So one neut, loosing two guns and one heavy's worth of bandwidth, for a better tanking bonus. Not quite sure... I'm inclined to try it though.
The extra low is pretty important since the drone damage amps are low slots. The extra 5% armor resist is effectively giving you an extra low with massive resists that don't incur diminishing returns.
On the Myrmidon you have an extra heavy drone (4 instead of 3) so 33% more damage, but one drone damage amp less. You get a 37.5% better repair efficiency, but this pales compared to 25% to all resists with no diminishing returns.
Unless they fix the armor rep bonus to be useful with remote reps, the Myrmidon is pretty terrible with an armor tank, while the Prophecy looks like what the Myrmidon has always wanted to be. |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon
620
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Posted - 2013.01.08 23:19:00 -
[147] - Quote
Kogh Ayon wrote:Brutix
The boost on brutix may not enough to make it a good solo ship, the problems : 1, odd damage type 2, damage type problem can be solved by drones, but there's dilemma at choosing ecm drones or Infiltrators/Valkyries (implies more drone bay) 3, No utility high to fit neut to kill mission ships, nor being able to fit cloak to travel into hostile space. (implies an utility high)
So the usage of armor brutix will still be restrict to ~5 man small gang, can't solo, can't join bigger fights.
Harbinger
Don't get the logic to nerf this ship, isn't it **** enough already that people even use omen rather than harbinger?
so, 6 turrets with a 50% bonus (9 turrets) isnt as good as 7 turrets with a 25% bonus (8.75 turrets)? Sounds fine to me. You even get to keep your utility high, unlike the drake, and the harby lost one of its utility highs as well. Harby is probably keeps the most of its current goodness out of all tier 2 BCs, along with the myrm. |
Mund Richard
237
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Posted - 2013.01.08 23:22:00 -
[148] - Quote
Edward Pierce wrote:Unless they fix the armor rep bonus to be useful with remote reps, the Myrmidon is pretty terrible with an armor tank, while the Prophecy looks like what the Myrmidon has always wanted to be. And it wasn't me, who said it!
Well, one thing the Myrm is still possibly better at (depending on the unlisted shield recharge rate), is passive shield tanking (), and using the lows for damage mods.
Though quite a bit of shield was taken away... ...Reminds me, why take away armor, buffing hull above it's amount, if so dead-set on keeping armor repair bonuses. Gallente ships? Has a thousand less armor than the Prophecy AND a low less AND no resist bonus. Wish there was a Rogue Drone Faction Battleship... Infested Domi! Including all the wiggly bits to tend to your swarm, droneboat role bonus, and ofc with turrets. |
Isengrimus
Rave Technologies Inc. C0VEN
4
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Posted - 2013.01.08 23:24:00 -
[149] - Quote
Loki Vice wrote:why are you nerfing the harb across the board? it already barely gets flown
This. I mean, seriously? It's the weakest all the tier 2 BCs at the moment already, why nerfing it any further? Losing 1 turret means 12,5% decrease in DPS, the lame +5% bonus increase will not compensate it. |
Edward Pierce
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9
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Posted - 2013.01.08 23:25:00 -
[150] - Quote
Mund Richard wrote:Edward Pierce wrote:Unless they fix the armor rep bonus to be useful with remote reps, the Myrmidon is pretty terrible with an armor tank, while the Prophecy looks like what the Myrmidon has always wanted to be. And it wasn't me, who said it! Well, one thing the Myrm is still possibly better at (depending on the unlisted shield recharge rate), is passive shield tanking ( ), and using the lows for damage mods.
With 400 CPU? Unlikely. |
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