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SinTeryx
Grzzly Industrial Solutions Disturbed Attributes
0
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Posted - 2013.01.10 07:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
I just started playing. The game is incredibly overwhelming but insanely addictive and I can see myself playing for years (wish I had started earlier). My question is training Cybernetics V and then buying +5's worth it this early on? I have +3's now and will be finishing Cybernetics IV tomorrow night. I am not worried about the ISK investment for the +5's as they aren't very unreasonable. I also have the Cerebral accelerator online for the next 33 days. Any response or advice would be wonderful! -Sin |
Skurga
Cooperative Industries Corium Fission
10
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Posted - 2013.01.10 08:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
Faster skilltime is always nice....as someone who started to max all learning skills (removed skills, which improved your attributes) as a new player I understand your desire.
But be carefull: Cybernetics 5 is at the beginning of a career a boring long skill to train. Be sure not to kill your fun for the game while waiting for it to complete.
It won't kill you to wait some weeks longer for it to complete. So skill cybernetics 5 and when you are getting bored of shipspinning in the station skill some new other skills, then return to cybernetics 5.
Edit: And also be careful - you lose your implants when podded. So if you are going for some pvp action, don't use implants you can't afford to lose. |
Frank Millar
100
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Posted - 2013.01.10 10:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
I found +5s hideously expensive, because I was a lazy sod and never made enough ISK to be able to afford them.
Depending on your income/playstyle, start with +3s and upgrade to +4s later on, preferably for INT and PER first. CHA isn't that important, so can be kept at +3, if at all.
If you're into PVP, make sure you have at least one Jumpclone. Put the cheap Implants in your PVP clone, and the expensive ones in your station-sitting clone; so when you log off for a longer period of time, jump to your station-sitting clone and train faster that way. Remember, clone-jumping can only occur once every 24 hours. |
xXxNIMRODxXx
DYNAMIC INTERVENTION ORPHANS OF EVE
27
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Posted - 2013.01.10 10:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
If you plan on playing for a long period, well, lvl 5 is a must....till you stick to high-sec |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
6901
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Posted - 2013.01.10 10:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
SinTeryx wrote:I just started playing. The game is incredibly overwhelming but insanely addictive and I can see myself playing for years (wish I had started earlier). My question is training Cybernetics V and then buying +5's worth it this early on? I have +3's now and will be finishing Cybernetics IV tomorrow night. I am not worried about the ISK investment for the +5's as they aren't very unreasonable. I also have the Cerebral accelerator online for the next 33 days. Any response or advice would be wonderful! -Sin
Define "worth it". If you're not worried about the ISK investment, then yes, you'll get that extra 90 SP per hour and you'll gain an advantage from that.
Just remember that pods aren't indestructible, and you're not operating with any garauntee of safety, even in hi-sec. What you might find worthwhile is creating a jump clone or two with cheaper or even no implants, so that if you want to do something risky, you can jump out of your expensive +5 clone and operate in a cheaper one.
One thing I would definitely warn you against is the "+5 trap" - where people get so obsessed with their SP/hr and their expensive implants that they become totally averse to taking any risks or using a jump clone with lesser implants. Becoming obsessed with getting a few more skillpoints, they lose sight what they're training those skills for, and they forget to actually have fun.
Your skills are a tool to achieve your goals with. They're not the only tool you'll need, and they're not themselves the goal. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
337
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Posted - 2013.01.10 11:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:SinTeryx wrote:I just started playing. The game is incredibly overwhelming but insanely addictive and I can see myself playing for years (wish I had started earlier). My question is training Cybernetics V and then buying +5's worth it this early on? I have +3's now and will be finishing Cybernetics IV tomorrow night. I am not worried about the ISK investment for the +5's as they aren't very unreasonable. I also have the Cerebral accelerator online for the next 33 days. Any response or advice would be wonderful! -Sin Define "worth it". If you're not worried about the ISK investment, then yes, you'll get that extra 90 SP per hour and you'll gain an advantage from that.
Keep in mind though, that you have to invest about 10 days to train cybernetics to Level V first... and that-¦s while training at 2610 SP/hour so the pay-off will only start to show if you are in for the very long run (at least half a year?).
On the other hand, Cybernetics V enables you to wear a lot of nice implants on their own. Most of them make simple +5 Implants look like a cheap occasion, of course, but if money is no problem for you..... Forum-unbanned since 2011.10.20.
Mangala Solaris for CSM 8 |
Oovarvu
Iron Skies Ethereal Dawn
4
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Posted - 2013.01.10 12:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:SinTeryx wrote:I just started playing. The game is incredibly overwhelming but insanely addictive and I can see myself playing for years (wish I had started earlier). My question is training Cybernetics V and then buying +5's worth it this early on? I have +3's now and will be finishing Cybernetics IV tomorrow night. I am not worried about the ISK investment for the +5's as they aren't very unreasonable. I also have the Cerebral accelerator online for the next 33 days. Any response or advice would be wonderful! -Sin Define "worth it". If you're not worried about the ISK investment, then yes, you'll get that extra 90 SP per hour and you'll gain an advantage from that. Just remember that pods aren't indestructible, and you're not operating with any garauntee of safety, even in hi-sec. What you might find worthwhile is creating a jump clone or two with cheaper or even no implants, so that if you want to do something risky, you can jump out of your expensive +5 clone and operate in a cheaper one. Quote:One thing I would definitely warn you against is the "+5 trap" - where people get so obsessed with their SP/hr and their expensive implants that they become totally averse to taking any risks or using a jump clone with lesser implants. Becoming obsessed with getting a few more skillpoints, they lose sight what they're training those skills for, and they forget to actually have fun. Your skills are a tool to achieve your goals with. They're not the only tool you'll need, and they're not themselves the goal.
now thats a quality answer! |
Inkarr Hashur
Sine Nobilitatis R.E.P.O.
121
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Posted - 2013.01.10 15:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
It takes so very long for +5 to pay for itself in training time, and they are so expensive, that a new player is generally better just sticking to +4 at best. |
Annunaki soldier
Segmentum Solar Nulli Legio
60
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Posted - 2013.01.10 15:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
i will contribute to this thread saying this: Whatever implant clone you have its an investment that goes with the character. Get yourself a +4 first to give a head start then make a second clone with a +5. Learning clones really worth the time and increase the value of the character . The money you will be giving , you can take it back since clones with implants raise the value of the character. You can even win some money because of the fw nerf and implants (dont know if they have stabilized i upgraded all characters that didnt have a +5 clone when they where selling like 80 mil the +5 implant ) .
You can discover the difference on training time using evemon Ride hard, live with passion-á |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
308
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Posted - 2013.01.10 16:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
I trained for +5's on a second account and in the end I NEVER used them. At first it was a cost issue, later it was a fear factor issue, because I do PvP and I DO lose a pod now and then. My comfort level is in +4's for everything.
+10 for Malcanis's post. It is spot on advice.
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Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
46
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Posted - 2013.01.10 16:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
They're more "worth it" the earlier you put them in, obviously. As others have pointed out, the real "cost" to them is that if you PvP you run the risk of losing a $200-500m investment. This is why people often set up two clones with +5s, one that has only Per/Wil implants and one that only has Int/Mem. Since most skills will rely on one or the other of those pairs of attributes, you just swap to the clone that matches what you're training, and you only risk half the loss you would if you had all four implants in, where two of them are probably not needed at any given moment.
The one "cost" people often miss is the training time for Cybernetics V itself. The time cost of training the skill means that it will take about a year for you to reach SP break even on getting the implants in your head. So, if you don't plan to be playing (or training) at least a year from now, it's probably a complete waste of time and ISK. The other thing about this is that the better your implants are, the more time it will take for +5s to pay off; so going from +4s to +5s will take even longer to break even.
That said, I use +4s in my main, which I have been playing for a while and intend to keep playing for a while. I will probably get around to putting +5s in about a year from now, when I switch back to an Int/Mem map. I have used +5s in alts than I train up just to sell, because I can roll the cost of the imps into the sale price of the toon, and they're a good selling point for a character that might be someone's new main and will continue to train for a long while. |
Flakey Foont
201
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Posted - 2013.01.10 17:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
So basically you would be unable to progress as a pilot as you wait...and wait for Cyb 5. Not much fun if you ask me.
To each their own I guess. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
741
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Posted - 2013.01.10 17:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
maybe you should consider getting two accounts. one 'test" account where you train anything you want and just try everything out and another focused account where you concentrate on +5 implants, then the core skills like electronics, engineering etc. and then branch out to whatever you found most fun on your test account.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
155
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Posted - 2013.01.10 17:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
I find that +4s are definately worth the initial investment, but +5s are so expensive that they probably aren't worth it until you have several years in the game and 10+ bil sitting in your bank account.
Some will go for them sooner, some never will.
I find myself in the latter. Especially considering that many players find that due to med clone costs, they have a specific SP ammount that they plan to stop training their main pvp char at.
Being that my main has over 100m SP, that is getting rather close for me.
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Kapitalina F
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2013.01.10 20:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
My advice is get 4s and wait until your accelerator dies THEN train for 5s if you want. Otherwise the 5s would waste the time from your accelerator. You have to keep in mind that cybernetics 5 takes 15 days. If you have evemon see how much time it takes before your 5s start paying back.
Example Maruader 4 Tech 2 Artillery 4 Controlled bursts 5 Motion Prediction 5 Rapid Firing 5
Takes 177 days with all +4 and The appropriate remap.
Adding all +5s Makes it 171 days. And with a perception will power remap cybernetics 5 takes 17 days.
With plus 3s this would take 183days and cybernetics 4 would take 2-3days. So really it takes ALONG time before cybernetics 5 gives you pay back. Other uses for all +5s would be say your doing marauder 5 but also want mission running skills which take charisma bonuses. Well then it might be helpful.
Over all though DO NOT CONSIDER +5 until the accelerator is gone.
P.S. Get EveMon from the appropriate eve online thread. This helps map things out and see if things are worth the time. |
SinTeryx
Grzzly Industrial Solutions Disturbed Attributes
0
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Posted - 2013.01.10 21:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
Thanks for all the responses guys. I still haven't decided what to do but the advice is helping push towards some other decisions. Unfortunately I can't use evemon because I have a mac FML especially because I would play with it for an hour and know exactly what I was going to do |
Canabi
Frontier Explorer's League Sadistica Alliance
30
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Posted - 2013.01.10 23:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
SinTeryx wrote:Thanks for all the responses guys. I still haven't decided what to do but the advice is helping push towards some other decisions. Unfortunately I can't use evemon because I have a mac FML especially because I would play with it for an hour and know exactly what I was going to do
SinTeryx wrote:Unfortunately I can't use evemon because I have a mac FML especially because I would play with it for an hour and know exactly what I was going to do
SinTeryx wrote:Unfortunately I can't use evemon because I have a mac FML
SinTeryx wrote:I have a mac
The end. |
SinTeryx
Grzzly Industrial Solutions Disturbed Attributes
0
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Posted - 2013.01.10 23:49:00 -
[18] - Quote
Canabi wrote:SinTeryx wrote:Thanks for all the responses guys. I still haven't decided what to do but the advice is helping push towards some other decisions. Unfortunately I can't use evemon because I have a mac FML especially because I would play with it for an hour and know exactly what I was going to do SinTeryx wrote:Unfortunately I can't use evemon because I have a mac FML especially because I would play with it for an hour and know exactly what I was going to do SinTeryx wrote:Unfortunately I can't use evemon because I have a mac FML SinTeryx wrote:I have a mac The end.
Waste of time. Move along. |
Name Family Name
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
114
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Posted - 2013.01.11 00:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kapitalina F wrote:Example Maruader 4 Tech 2 Artillery 4 Controlled bursts 5 Motion Prediction 5 Rapid Firing 5
Maybe that is just a completely random example you just made, but I'm wondering why anyone would pick that skillset.
Controlled bursts V with T2 arty but marauders only to IV?
Projectiles and Controlled Bursts in the same Package doesn't make any sense, whereas Marauders only remotely makes sense if trained to V and you're a roleplayer unwilling to crosstrain for a pirate ship for RP reasons.
Anyway - not meaning to derail the thread. If you're really using the pilot a lot (i.e. it's your first character and you don't have isk in overbundance), it's not worth it.
For an alt I made, I trained it, but that character didn't undock in his first year and I planned to use high grade pirate implants on the character later on anyway since isk doesn't matter to me anymore. Largely depends on the purpose you're using it for. If you stay in high/lowsec it's quite unlikely you'll lose your pod if you know what you're doing, if you plan to move to null, it's quite likely you'll lose it eventually.
Also, considering you're using a mac, you should read this article - it's a bad site posting utter nonsense 95% of the time, but according to mac users I personally know, this article holds some truth. |
Kirkwood Ross
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
30
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Posted - 2013.01.11 01:14:00 -
[20] - Quote
If you are going to do activities in Eve that are safe to your pod then +5s are well worth it. |
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Crash Lander
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
30
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Posted - 2013.01.11 05:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
Time to settle this with some bad math! Assuming you are properly remapped and currently have +4's.
Switching 2x +4 implants to +5
Average SP/Hour Diff from 2610 SP/Hr => 2700 SP/Hr => Gain of 90SP/HR
SP Gain with +4's in a month: 1906563.24 SP Gain with +5's in a month: 1972306.8 => SP gain over 1 Month: 65743.56 SP
1 Month = ~ 730.484 hours = 1 Plex = ~$20 USD
price of 2x +5 implants: ~240mil ISK = ~$8.51 = ~313.06 hours
So where is the break even point? What should +5's cost? So the return rate is 1/29th or (i.e: 90/2610) ==> 25 hours per month = 19.16mil ISK 240mil / 19.16mil = 12.52 Month
In other words the 2x implants would pay for themselves after 12.5 Month in the amount of time they have saved your char in training.
That's not including the time for Cybernetics 5. Or the opportunity cost of investing 240mil ISK. Or the chance of you getting blown up with them!
Side fact from above: 1906563.24 SP / 90 (SP/HR) = 21184.036 hours = ~882.667 days = ~29 Month! ==> By switching to +5 from +4s after 29 month you will have gained one month of training vs +4's.
TLDR: Really waste of ISK unless you are in it for at least a year and are not going to remap and not going to get podded.
Disclaimer: Its late and I didn't feel like double checking this. |
Justin Valentine
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
45
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Posted - 2013.01.11 12:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
+5s are very worth it look at it this way 2x+5 implants primary/second 180m isk after 3 months you will have an extra 180k sp.. 180 000 sp for 180m isk? Bargain. After 6 months it is 360k sp..
You cant compare the cost of implants with plex due to the fact time is priceless.
Also Cybernetics 5 for slot 6 Omega implants. |
Crash Lander
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
30
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Posted - 2013.01.11 15:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
Justin Valentine wrote:+5s are very worth it look at it this way 2x+5 implants primary/second 180m isk after 3 months you will have an extra 180k sp.. 180 000 sp for 180m isk? Bargain. After 6 months it is 360k sp..
You cant compare the cost of implants with plex due to the fact time is priceless.
Somebody sell this man some implants. Time has a price. Its called character bazaar.
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GreenSeed
149
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Posted - 2013.01.11 19:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
if you really want a faster skill up, get a cerebral accelerator and upgrade implants as you get more levels of cybernetics. i think you start with +3s, then plug 2 +4s and finally 5 +5s.
on the long run you WILL be saving a lot of training time, just be sure of what you want the character to be, and train him on that path only.
and again... BE SURE of what you want the character to be, and max THAT only. you wont regret having highly specialized characters. max leadership, max frigs/dessies, max cruisers/hacs, etc etc.
having one spec means you can go for those lvl5s skills that people always leave for last, which usually means never. |
McRoll
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
73
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Posted - 2013.01.12 00:49:00 -
[25] - Quote
In my opinion not worth it unless it is a highly specialized alt planned for a long time. Almost never worth it for the first char.
As others have pointed out, it is helpful to train certain long skills to V or stick to a skillset depending on your mapped attributes. However you will want to try out many skills from different categories and you will want to have them earlier, because unless you are pretty hardcore into this game, the interest will start do decline after some time and you probably won't be playing enough after the time it took you to reach the break even point. It is more fun to try out different stuff than getting 2% more efficiency in a certain area, which you probably won't even notice in practice.
You also need to consider that after years of playing it won't really matter if you have some more million SP with 5's. I am in such a situation, I play since 2008 and I am training Marauders V because I don't really know what else I could train that would really benefit me (I don't plan training for capital ships). Also, after a long time you probably only play occasionally and dont give a damn if you have some specializations to V instead of IV, generally speaking.
So I wouldn't make long plans into the future because they will never fullfill themselves as planned :) |
SinTeryx
Grzzly Industrial Solutions Disturbed Attributes
1
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Posted - 2013.01.13 08:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
Crash Lander wrote:Justin Valentine wrote:+5s are very worth it look at it this way 2x+5 implants primary/second 180m isk after 3 months you will have an extra 180k sp.. 180 000 sp for 180m isk? Bargain. After 6 months it is 360k sp..
You cant compare the cost of implants with plex due to the fact time is priceless.
Somebody sell this man some implants. Time has a price. Its called character bazaar.
Time does have a price. When you go to school full time (18 credits) and have a full time job 38+ hours a week, waiting an extra 9 days 18 hours (according to ingame skill que) to have +5's while I sit in station and get a bit of trading done while I train core skills to IV or V seems worth it to me.
I would really like to thank everyone for their responses. Some have been incredibly helpful while others have been helpful but almost pushed me in the wrong direction. Thanks again. -Sin |
Scuzzy Logic
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2013.01.14 14:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
Kirkwood Ross wrote:If you are going to do activities in Eve that are safe to your pod then +5s are well worth it.
*MY SIDES*
There is no such thing in EVE. Well, maybe shipspinning. Dock up in jita and speculate on Spreadsheets Online, if that's your thing. |
Ace Realist
Black Star Elite Guard
6
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Posted - 2013.01.15 22:38:00 -
[28] - Quote
Canabi wrote:SinTeryx wrote:Thanks for all the responses guys. I still haven't decided what to do but the advice is helping push towards some other decisions. Unfortunately I can't use evemon because I have a mac FML especially because I would play with it for an hour and know exactly what I was going to do SinTeryx wrote:Unfortunately I can't use evemon because I have a mac FML especially because I would play with it for an hour and know exactly what I was going to do SinTeryx wrote:Unfortunately I can't use evemon because I have a mac FML SinTeryx wrote:I have a mac The end.
I ended up laughing and crying since I just had a back tooth cut out, those damn mac's alwayse make me cry. |
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
235
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Posted - 2013.01.16 20:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
Short answer: NO
Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
Slightly more nuanced answer: Cybernetics V is good to have, +5s are a waste of your time (or money if you're buying them with PLEX money). +4s are fine for basically whatever and if you're in a situation where you might actually be podded you probably wanna stick with +3s, since they can be replaced basically instantly form pocket change. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
738
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 13:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
Pros: +5 implants across the board is a Very Good Thing as they're the best investment you can make - i.e., your toon itself, and SP the one thing you can be sure of having forever unless you really screw up on your clone upgrades.
Cons: Jump clone is mandatory if going anywhere out of hisec, and pod flying is verbotten even in hisec - buy a dozen shuttles spread them everywhere as needed. EvE Forum Bingo |
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