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Jasminica
Praedo Profundum
0
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Posted - 2013.01.12 12:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Are you devs trying to lose subscribers? I have spent years training up 2 accounts for Caldari missile pilots and now you nerf them again for the second time ?
I will be thinking hard about paying when my two subs run out in a few months. Already caldari was almost useless for any form of PVP, before the nerf...
Why should I have to respec into ships and weapons I have no interest in ? just to regain some enjoyment. |
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
540
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Posted - 2013.01.12 12:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Confirming that this is a great new idea. Also, anyone got a bucket to catch these tears in? |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
374
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Posted - 2013.01.12 13:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Why did you use years to train only one weapon system?
Clearly shows how out of line heavy missiles were. |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Heavy Industries Sick N' Twisted
210
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Posted - 2013.01.12 13:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jasminica wrote:Are you devs trying to lose subscribers? I have spent years training up 2 accounts for Caldari missile pilots and now you nerf them again for the second time ?
I will be thinking hard about paying when my two subs run out in a few months. Already caldari was almost useless for any form of PVP, before the nerf...
Why should I have to respec into ships and weapons I have no interest in ? just to regain some enjoyment. Would you mind clarifying exactly what these two seperate nerfs are that you are refering to? MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
411
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Posted - 2013.01.12 13:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jasminica wrote:Are you devs trying to lose subscribers? I have spent years training up 2 accounts for Caldari missile pilots and now you nerf them again for the second time ?
I will be thinking hard about paying when my two subs run out in a few months. Already caldari was almost useless for any form of PVP, before the nerf...
Why should I have to respec into ships and weapons I have no interest in ? just to regain some enjoyment.
....
What?
There Caracal is arguably the best cruiser out of the rebalance and the drake is top 3 bc. You clearly don't have a clue...
And for battleships torps are ******* awesome now..
HML's may have been nerfed but the ENTIRE missile weapon tree has been buffed MASSIVELY. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
374
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Posted - 2013.01.12 13:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:Jasminica wrote:Are you devs trying to lose subscribers? I have spent years training up 2 accounts for Caldari missile pilots and now you nerf them again for the second time ?
I will be thinking hard about paying when my two subs run out in a few months. Already caldari was almost useless for any form of PVP, before the nerf...
Why should I have to respec into ships and weapons I have no interest in ? just to regain some enjoyment. Would you mind clarifying exactly what these two seperate nerfs are that you are refering to?
Torpedo nerf years ago? |
Griffin Omanid
Knights of the Zodiac
20
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Posted - 2013.01.12 13:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Jasminica wrote:Are you devs trying to lose subscribers? I have spent years training up 2 accounts for Caldari missile pilots and now you nerf them again for the second time ?
I will be thinking hard about paying when my two subs run out in a few months. Already caldari was almost useless for any form of PVP, before the nerf...
Why should I have to respec into ships and weapons I have no interest in ? just to regain some enjoyment. .... What? There Caracal is arguably the best cruiser out of the rebalance and the drake is top 3 bc. You clearly don't have a clue... And for battleships torps are ******* awesome now.. HML's may have been nerfed but the ENTIRE missile weapon tree has been buffed MASSIVELY.
This
Also if Caldari would be nerfed to doom, as you wrote. What do you need to respec for another race?
You already should have learned all the electronic, engineering, mechanic , drone and defensiv skills, so you could easily use it in other ship. The only think you really need to learn now are the other turrets, some Ewar-Skills and a few racial ship skills. When you already have Hybrid turrets maxed for some Caldari ships, the rest should not be a real problem, I think it is less then around one and a half month to fit each kind T2 Turret. And because of the skill rebalance you really should train NOW all racial Frig and Cruiser Skills up to 4, which is one week per race. Proposal T2 BS Class Juggernaut |
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Black Dawn Rising
13
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Posted - 2013.01.12 16:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Actually they've nerfed the Caldari ships and Faction about 8 times over the years, Amarr also.
They have nerfed -
Torpedos, Cruis missiles, Heavy Missiles, Launchers, ships turret and missile slots, etc.
As I have said before breaking **** is not fixing ****. Instead of Nerfing ships which work just fine, why don't you BUFF the weaker ships so they are comparable.
If you have several broken ships, you don't break the ones that work well in order to fix the ones that are broken...
YOU FIX THE ONES THAT ARE BROKEN! |
Daichi Yamato
Swamp Bucket Swamp Bucket Empire
495
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Posted - 2013.01.12 16:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:Actually they've nerfed the Caldari ships and Faction about 8 times over the years, Amarr also.
They have nerfed -
Torpedos, Cruis missiles, Heavy Missiles, Launchers, ships turret and missile slots, etc.
As I have said before breaking **** is not fixing ****. Instead of Nerfing ships which work just fine, why don't you BUFF the weaker ships so they are comparable.
If you have several broken ships, you don't break the ones that work well in order to fix the ones that are broken...
YOU FIX THE ONES THAT ARE BROKEN!
power creep
also, missiles are better than they have ever been and HML's are now balanced. someone give me their stuff god damnit! |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
420
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Posted - 2013.01.12 16:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:Actually they've nerfed the Caldari ships and Faction about 8 times over the years, Amarr also.
They have nerfed -
Torpedos, Cruis missiles, Heavy Missiles, Launchers, ships turret and missile slots, etc.
As I have said before breaking **** is not fixing ****. Instead of Nerfing ships which work just fine, why don't you BUFF the weaker ships so they are comparable.
If you have several broken ships, you don't break the ones that work well in order to fix the ones that are broken...
YOU FIX THE ONES THAT ARE BROKEN! power creep also, missiles are better than they have ever been and HML's are now balanced. someone give me their stuff god damnit!
Yes, HML's are now balance. Which is exactly why everyone is either moving away from them, or not replacing them once a ship is lost.
Most missile boats in the game are craptastic.
Sure, they made some missile systems better, but that doesn't go anywhere if the ships they're on such. |
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Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2193
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Posted - 2013.01.12 18:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP didn't want your 2 accounts anyway.... Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
576
|
Posted - 2013.01.12 19:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote:Jasminica wrote:Are you devs trying to lose subscribers? I have spent years training up 2 accounts for Caldari missile pilots and now you nerf them again for the second time ?
I will be thinking hard about paying when my two subs run out in a few months. Already caldari was almost useless for any form of PVP, before the nerf...
Why should I have to respec into ships and weapons I have no interest in ? just to regain some enjoyment. Would you mind clarifying exactly what these two seperate nerfs are that you are refering to? Torpedo nerf years ago?
Torpedo nerf month ago. Why CCP thinks Rage torps need even larger exp radius then they had, I'll never know...
But I guess you think in term of EFT, thus, nothing except the hml's 10% direct dmg nerf counts as nerf. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Seranova Farreach
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
408
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Posted - 2013.01.12 20:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
a second nerf? any one care to point the thread out to me? |
Seranova Farreach
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
408
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Posted - 2013.01.12 20:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:Actually they've nerfed the Caldari ships and Faction about 8 times over the years, Amarr also.
They have nerfed -
Torpedos, Cruis missiles, Heavy Missiles, Launchers, ships turret and missile slots, etc.
As I have said before breaking **** is not fixing ****. Instead of Nerfing ships which work just fine, why don't you BUFF the weaker ships so they are comparable.
If you have several broken ships, you don't break the ones that work well in order to fix the ones that are broken...
YOU FIX THE ONES THAT ARE BROKEN!
i believe ccp said they rather nerf stuff to avoid the "power creep" which can occur when buffing stuff all the time.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
1810
|
Posted - 2013.01.12 21:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Torpedo nerf month ago. Why CCP thinks Rage torps need even larger exp radius then they had, I'll never know... Because in exchange for higher damage you must pay a penalty? Void, Tremor, and Conflag all have tracking penalties built into them in exchange for their higher potential damage output.
Also... "power creep" is bad and causes more balancing issues than simply nerfing/"bringing in line" the few things that are "better than everything." Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
576
|
Posted - 2013.01.12 21:21:00 -
[16] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:sabre906 wrote:Torpedo nerf month ago. Why CCP thinks Rage torps need even larger exp radius then they had, I'll never know... Because in exchange for higher damage you must pay a penalty? Void, Tremor, and Conflag all have tracking penalties built into them in exchange for their higher potential damage output. Also... "power creep" is bad and causes more balancing issues than simply nerfing/"bringing in line" the few things that are "better than everything."
Perfect EFT logic right there. So Rage torp exp radius isn't already large enough and range low enough to be considered penalty? I wonder why nobody uses them... I'll bet you don't either. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
375
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Posted - 2013.01.12 21:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote:Jasminica wrote:Are you devs trying to lose subscribers? I have spent years training up 2 accounts for Caldari missile pilots and now you nerf them again for the second time ?
I will be thinking hard about paying when my two subs run out in a few months. Already caldari was almost useless for any form of PVP, before the nerf...
Why should I have to respec into ships and weapons I have no interest in ? just to regain some enjoyment. Would you mind clarifying exactly what these two seperate nerfs are that you are refering to? Torpedo nerf years ago? Torpedo nerf month ago. Why CCP thinks Rage torps need even larger exp radius then they had, I'll never know... But I guess you think in term of EFT, thus, nothing except the hml's 10% direct dmg nerf counts as nerf.
Posts I found about torpedoes and Raven were from 2008/2009.
Torps got buffed a month ago. Just like rockets and HAMs too. Even light missiles got buffed. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
576
|
Posted - 2013.01.12 21:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:sabre906 wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote:Jasminica wrote:Are you devs trying to lose subscribers? I have spent years training up 2 accounts for Caldari missile pilots and now you nerf them again for the second time ?
I will be thinking hard about paying when my two subs run out in a few months. Already caldari was almost useless for any form of PVP, before the nerf...
Why should I have to respec into ships and weapons I have no interest in ? just to regain some enjoyment. Would you mind clarifying exactly what these two seperate nerfs are that you are refering to? Torpedo nerf years ago? Torpedo nerf month ago. Why CCP thinks Rage torps need even larger exp radius then they had, I'll never know... But I guess you think in term of EFT, thus, nothing except the hml's 10% direct dmg nerf counts as nerf. Posts I found about torpedoes and Raven were from 2008/2009.
Once something's so bad that nobody uses them, there's no more whine. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Sigras
Conglomo IMPERIAL LEGI0N
328
|
Posted - 2013.01.12 21:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:sabre906 wrote:Torpedo nerf month ago. Why CCP thinks Rage torps need even larger exp radius then they had, I'll never know... Because in exchange for higher damage you must pay a penalty? Void, Tremor, and Conflag all have tracking penalties built into them in exchange for their higher potential damage output. Also... "power creep" is bad and causes more balancing issues than simply nerfing/"bringing in line" the few things that are "better than everything." Perfect EFT logic right there. So Rage torp exp radius isn't already large enough and range low enough to be considered penalty? I wonder why nobody uses them... I'll bet you don't either. you mean other than the fact that the torpedoes get the bonus from guided missile precision now?
20% nerf to explosion radius + 25% buff to explosion radius = nerf somehow?
oh, and all the OTHER torpedoes got that much better while you were whining . . . clearly youre an idiot who doesnt know what actual changes took place. |
Sigras
Conglomo IMPERIAL LEGI0N
328
|
Posted - 2013.01.12 21:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:Actually they've nerfed the Caldari ships and Faction about 8 times over the years, Amarr also.
They have nerfed -
Torpedos, Cruis missiles, Heavy Missiles, Launchers, ships turret and missile slots, etc.
As I have said before breaking **** is not fixing ****. Instead of Nerfing ships which work just fine, why don't you BUFF the weaker ships so they are comparable.
If you have several broken ships, you don't break the ones that work well in order to fix the ones that are broken...
YOU FIX THE ONES THAT ARE BROKEN! power creep also, missiles are better than they have ever been and HML's are now balanced. someone give me their stuff god damnit! Yes, HML's are now balance. Which is exactly why everyone is either moving away from them, or not replacing them once a ship is lost. this is exactly correct, before there were far too many people using missiles, now a bunch of people are moving away from that to even the distribution back out to where it should be
Joe Risalo wrote:Most missile boats in the game are craptastic.
Sure, they made some missile systems better, but that doesn't go anywhere if the ships they're on such. There are a few ships that would like a word with you . . . Namely
The Caracal The Tengu The Kestrel The Breacher The Drake The Cyclone The Bellicose The Corax The Talwar |
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
1813
|
Posted - 2013.01.12 21:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:sabre906 wrote:Torpedo nerf month ago. Why CCP thinks Rage torps need even larger exp radius then they had, I'll never know... Because in exchange for higher damage you must pay a penalty? Void, Tremor, and Conflag all have tracking penalties built into them in exchange for their higher potential damage output. Also... "power creep" is bad and causes more balancing issues than simply nerfing/"bringing in line" the few things that are "better than everything." Perfect EFT logic right there. So Rage torp exp radius isn't already large enough and range low enough to be considered penalty? I wonder why nobody uses them... I'll bet you don't either. There is a reason very few people use Void, Tremor, and Conflag too. One has to be at VERY close range because those ammos also cut range... making the tracking penalty they give worse. Basically, you barely hit (or don't hit at all) anything of the same class or lower using Void, Tremor, and Conflag.
Now bigger ships... that's a different story. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Daichi Yamato
Swamp Bucket Swamp Bucket Empire
495
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 00:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:sabre906 wrote:Torpedo nerf month ago. Why CCP thinks Rage torps need even larger exp radius then they had, I'll never know... Because in exchange for higher damage you must pay a penalty? Void, Tremor, and Conflag all have tracking penalties built into them in exchange for their higher potential damage output. Also... "power creep" is bad and causes more balancing issues than simply nerfing/"bringing in line" the few things that are "better than everything." Perfect EFT logic right there. So Rage torp exp radius isn't already large enough and range low enough to be considered penalty? I wonder why nobody uses them... I'll bet you don't either.
phoon and bombers...yeah i do. if i flew caldari BS i might try the raven in a shield fleet for that 'extra' range and neuts. im aware of its flaws, but its worth a try. |
Ines Tegator
Towels R Us
211
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Posted - 2013.01.13 01:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Why CCP thinks Rage torps need even larger exp radius then they had, I'll never know...
Because Guided Missile Precision and Rigor rigs affect torps now.
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
420
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Posted - 2013.01.13 06:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sigras wrote:
There are a few ships that would like a word with you . . . Namely
The Caracal The Tengu The Kestrel The Breacher The Drake The Cyclone The Bellicose The Corax The Talwar
Ok...
Caracal - rebalanced and still not seeing that much usage
Tengu - OP and will get nerfed during t3 rebalance...
Kestrel - Apart from RvB I don't know that anyone uses this ship in pvp even after rebalance
Breacher - ??? I didn't even know this was a ship, let alone know that is was a missile boat until now.
Drake - Seeing less and less usage, crap with hmls, and no one is replacing them once they get destroyed unless they have nothing else they can fly
Cyclone - Turret boat with turret bonuses.. Only uses missiles because it has extra launcher hardpoints
Bellicose - can't say as I've ever seen one used
Corax - Ehh, it's a decent little ship, I'll give you that...but it's more of a gimick than a comparable ship
Talwar - Again, the new missile destroyers are more of a gimick..CCP gave these out just so they could say they introduced something new. |
Commander Ted
Sudden Buggery Swift Angels Alliance
404
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Posted - 2013.01.13 08:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:
Ok...
Caracal - rebalanced and still not seeing that much usage
Tengu - OP and will get nerfed during t3 rebalance...
Kestrel - Apart from RvB I don't know that anyone uses this ship in pvp even after rebalance
Breacher - ??? I didn't even know this was a ship, let alone know that is was a missile boat until now.
Drake - Seeing less and less usage, crap with hmls, and no one is replacing them once they get destroyed unless they have nothing else they can fly
Cyclone - Turret boat with turret bonuses.. Only uses missiles because it has extra launcher hardpoints
Bellicose - can't say as I've ever seen one used
Corax - Ehh, it's a decent little ship, I'll give you that...but it's more of a gimick than a comparable ship
Talwar - Again, the new missile destroyers are more of a gimick..CCP gave these out just so they could say they introduced something new.
The caracal ***** out 400 dps with no accuracy falloff and goes 2km/s I see them all the time and they rock.
Tengu- t3 rebalance in a few years lol
Kestrel-Faction warfare I see them everywhere. Its not a tackle frig for 0.0 blobs, its an excellent combat frigate.
Breacher- did you read the damn patch notes for frigs? It has a shield booster bonus and does a decent level of dps making it a comparable frig to the kestrel.
Drake- The ham drake is an unstoppable monster. It ***** out gobs of dps and has a monster tank to boot.
Cyclone- Did you read the battlecruiser rebalance? Its going to be a missle boat.
Bellicose- a caracal with target painter bonuses and less range
Corax/talwar- New dessies blow whatevs. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
418
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 13:14:00 -
[26] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:Joe Risalo wrote:
Ok...
Caracal - rebalanced and still not seeing that much usage
Tengu - OP and will get nerfed during t3 rebalance...
Kestrel - Apart from RvB I don't know that anyone uses this ship in pvp even after rebalance
Breacher - ??? I didn't even know this was a ship, let alone know that is was a missile boat until now.
Drake - Seeing less and less usage, crap with hmls, and no one is replacing them once they get destroyed unless they have nothing else they can fly
Cyclone - Turret boat with turret bonuses.. Only uses missiles because it has extra launcher hardpoints
Bellicose - can't say as I've ever seen one used
Corax - Ehh, it's a decent little ship, I'll give you that...but it's more of a gimick than a comparable ship
Talwar - Again, the new missile destroyers are more of a gimick..CCP gave these out just so they could say they introduced something new.
The caracal ***** out 400 dps with no accuracy falloff and goes 2km/s I see them all the time and they rock. Tengu- t3 rebalance in a few years lol Kestrel-Faction warfare I see them everywhere. Its not a tackle frig for 0.0 blobs, its an excellent combat frigate. Breacher- did you read the damn patch notes for frigs? It has a shield booster bonus and does a decent level of dps making it a comparable frig to the kestrel. Drake- The ham drake is an unstoppable monster. It ***** out gobs of dps and has a monster tank to boot. Cyclone- Did you read the battlecruiser rebalance? Its going to be a missle boat. Bellicose- a caracal with target painter bonuses and less range Corax/talwar- New dessies blow whatevs.
Talwar is fine! don't dis my talwar.. =<
But yea all the ships mentioned there are great and see a bunch of use.
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Sean Parisi
Meridian Commonwealth
116
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Posted - 2013.01.13 13:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
Caracal = Versatile target selection / Fitting. Can either specialize in brawling, long range or anti frigate duty. Sounds pretty good to me. |
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