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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Dave stark
1507
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Posted - 2013.01.13 10:37:00 -
[31] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:A dread when in siege mode cannot be affected by e-war or assistance mods...
you cannot jam/scram/rsd/ecm or use ET/rr/eccm/rsb...
So why can you use a nuet on them?
because a neut isn't e-war. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
606
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Posted - 2013.01.13 10:39:00 -
[32] - Quote
Roime wrote:Vilnius Zar wrote:Roime wrote:Vilnius Zar wrote:"DC only goes in low slots"
WHY CAN'T I FIT IT IN A MEDIUM SLOT, A SLOT IS A SLOT RIGHT????? I MEAN, COME ON!!!
"hey guys, is there a reason why neuts work but other EWAR not because this sucks?" "lol roflcopter, gb2wow you fckn clown, I R teh poon" Ok. Someone's butthurt. :D Someone is terribly inconsistent even when badposting
Therr's a difference, one of us (you) is raging like a mad clown at some newbie who asks a genuine question, for zero reason. The other (me) is calling out a troll post for what it is. Amat victoria curam. Excellence in everything.
Some guides that may be useful to you: http://www.youtube.com/user/OrdoArdish |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
1605
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Posted - 2013.01.13 11:01:00 -
[33] - Quote
wut :D
That's a gross exaggeration there mate! His toon is over 5 year old for first, and I just made a comment that he should leave the tutorial area to experience the game without restrictions instead of hoping for a new ship. I even wrote it politely, unlike your ALL CAPS MAD RAGE post. Maybe a smiley would have helped, cause you surely didn't catch my intended tone.
Which wasn't all that serious.
Anyway enough of this o7 Shiva Furnace is recruiting! Small gang PVP in wormholes and lowsec. |
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ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3937
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Posted - 2013.01.13 11:09:00 -
[34] - Quote
Forum Rules wrote:
6. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another. Text of this nature is not beneficial to the community spirit and will not be tolerated. Corporation, faction and alliance members and other players are cautioned to avoid allowing GÇ£in characterGÇ¥ disputes from becoming "out of character" personal attacks. The game is designed for role-playing and/or portraying a role and it is sometimes easy for tempers to flare when the lines between the virtual world and the real world are crossed. Please keep in-game disputes in the game and off the forum unless it is clearly a mutual, in-character exchange.
7. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is the word used to describe a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting the players. Posts of this nature are disruptive and do not contribute to the sense of community we want for our forums.
Posts have been removed from this thread for breaching the above rules. Warnings and/or bans can be issued to people who repeatedly break the rules of these forums, so please keep the trolling and personal attacks away from here, thank you - ISD Type40. ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Mizhir
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
2556
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Posted - 2013.01.13 13:24:00 -
[35] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Mizhir wrote:But how are RNK supposed to fight if they cant neut the dreads? adapt? i still would like to see capital neuts and nos plus capital cap injector... the cap nuet/nos would have a sig radius restriction that would make it so they dont work on sub caps...
I was just joking. But Lady Naween has some good points.
But capacitor warfare is one of the few counters a group of subcap ships has against caps. By allowing a cap blob to do the neuting as well you just end up with 1 less reason to field a subcap support fleet. Caps aren't supposed to be able to do everything on their own.
While neuting is an effective way to counter sieged dreads, it might be a bit too powerful. But as stated before, cap sized capacitor boosters will become too powerful. Maybe cap sized capacitor batteries (with enough neut protection to make it worth it) is the solution.
If you are having Smurf problems I feel bad for you son I got 99 problems but a Blue aint one. |
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
126
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Posted - 2013.01.13 18:58:00 -
[36] - Quote
Does the ECM Bomb affect sieged/triaged caps too? |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2631
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Posted - 2013.01.13 20:02:00 -
[37] - Quote
No. Remote ECM Burst used to, but I'm pretty sure it was ruled a bug and removed.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
812
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Posted - 2013.01.13 20:18:00 -
[38] - Quote
Mizhir wrote:
While neuting is an effective way to counter sieged dreads, it might be a bit too powerful. But as stated before, cap sized capacitor boosters will become too powerful. Maybe cap sized capacitor batteries (with enough neut protection to make it worth it) is the solution.
hmm i like that idea because they made cap bats somewhat nueting immunity a while ago right? Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Jerick Ludhowe
The Nyan Cat Pirates The Retirement Club
347
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Posted - 2013.01.13 20:28:00 -
[39] - Quote
Vilnius Zar wrote:No, a capital sized cap booster would create more problems than you realise as it effectively means caps can jump around MUCH faster. We need LESS projected power from capitals, not more.
Spool up times and mass limits on cynos would do a much better job compared to third row balancing practices like this.
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fukier
RISE of LEGION
682
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Posted - 2013.01.13 20:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:Vilnius Zar wrote:No, a capital sized cap booster would create more problems than you realise as it effectively means caps can jump around MUCH faster. We need LESS projected power from capitals, not more. Spool up times and mass limits on cynos would do a much better job compared to third row balancing practices like this.
wow make the cyno like a wh where you have a mass limit?
Brilliant idea there...
no seriously... thats a really really really good idea...
no longer can you jump 40 sc and 20 titans with just one cyno...
you would need like 8 for that or something reasonable... heck i would do the same for titan bridges too...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |
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Vigo Carpath
Barr Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
5
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Posted - 2013.01.14 23:24:00 -
[41] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:Vilnius Zar wrote:No, a capital sized cap booster would create more problems than you realise as it effectively means caps can jump around MUCH faster. We need LESS projected power from capitals, not more. Spool up times and mass limits on cynos would do a much better job compared to third row balancing practices like this.
I don't often like posts on EVE-O forums.
This one got a like! |
Rajere
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
8
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Posted - 2013.01.15 07:31:00 -
[42] - Quote
fukier wrote:Jerick Ludhowe wrote:Vilnius Zar wrote:No, a capital sized cap booster would create more problems than you realise as it effectively means caps can jump around MUCH faster. We need LESS projected power from capitals, not more. Spool up times and mass limits on cynos would do a much better job compared to third row balancing practices like this. wow make the cyno like a wh where you have a mass limit? Brilliant idea there... no seriously... thats a really really really good idea... no longer can you jump 40 sc and 20 titans with just one cyno... you would need like 8 for that or something reasonable... heck i would do the same for titan bridges too... mass limit might work for capital ships but would need a different mechanic for bridging. The minimum mass limit would have to be around 2.4bil kg to enable a single erebus to jump to a cyno. Also with a mass limit that low each cyno could only move a single titan or single sc, so realistically you'd need a much higher mass limit to allow something like 5 titans or 8-9 sc's. However for bridging even with the minimum mass limit you'd still be able to bridge a fleet of around 200 zealots/guardians to a single cyno. |
Maeltstome
Mentally Assured Destruction
268
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Posted - 2013.01.15 14:14:00 -
[43] - Quote
I blaster moros can overpower a carriers tank easily. In a DPS wormhole it can straight up solo logistics fleets. Cap warfare in capital vessels is essential. Changing neuts effect on a dreadnought means changing capital warfare to off-set it. |
Jerick Ludhowe
The Nyan Cat Pirates The Retirement Club
360
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Posted - 2013.01.15 14:35:00 -
[44] - Quote
Rajere wrote: mass limit might work for capital ships but would need a different mechanic for bridging. The minimum mass limit would have to be around 2.4bil kg to enable a single erebus to jump to a cyno. Also with a mass limit that low each cyno could only move a single titan or single sc, so realistically you'd need a much higher mass limit to allow something like 5 titans or 8-9 sc's. However for bridging even with the minimum mass limit you'd still be able to bridge a fleet of around 200 zealots/guardians to a single cyno.
Then you have 2 limits, mass, and maximum number of ships. Whichever you hit first, the cyno dies.
The reality is that cyno cap warfare is easily the worst example of pvp I've ever seen, in any mmo and needs to be nerfed asap. |
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition Insurance Fraud.
162
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Posted - 2013.01.15 17:50:00 -
[45] - Quote
Technically, neuts are both secondary ewar and a primary weapon system, and at the same time are kinda neither (or just unconventional). No, making the "neut... therefore energy trans isn't remote" yadda yadda isn't a logical connection.
Speaking of illogical connections...
MeBiatch wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:I know what energy neutralizers are. That doesn't have anything to do with "nuet". ah you are talking about a spelling error please see my sig
Typical. There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency. |
Vigo Carpath
Barr Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
5
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Posted - 2013.01.15 17:52:00 -
[46] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:Rajere wrote: mass limit might work for capital ships but would need a different mechanic for bridging. The minimum mass limit would have to be around 2.4bil kg to enable a single erebus to jump to a cyno. Also with a mass limit that low each cyno could only move a single titan or single sc, so realistically you'd need a much higher mass limit to allow something like 5 titans or 8-9 sc's. However for bridging even with the minimum mass limit you'd still be able to bridge a fleet of around 200 zealots/guardians to a single cyno.
Then you have 2 limits, mass, and maximum number of ships. Whichever you hit first, the cyno dies. The reality is that cyno cap warfare is easily the worst example of pvp I've ever seen, in any mmo and needs to be nerfed asap.
I don't think it would change much though. Everyone would just have to have a cyno fit then swap it out once the fleet lands and the fight begins. |
Not a Troll
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.01.15 22:37:00 -
[47] - Quote
From a logical point of view: It make no sense that neuts work and energy xfers dont. From a balance point of view: It's pretty nice. There is still ways to kinda counter this.
Now, we are talking about internet spaceships, i dont think logic have much to do here. |
Goldensaver
Marsuud And Sons Industries
122
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Posted - 2013.01.15 23:14:00 -
[48] - Quote
Oh god, the Triage Carriers. Brick tanked mega-triage Carriers. If they could energy transfer to each other then that would be ridiculous. Both just run the Triage modules and run the local reps (with a full tank setup since they don't need cap mods) allowing them to tank almost anything, meanwhile giving out remote reps constantly to everyone else while sharing cap between each other. |
Maeltstome
Mentally Assured Destruction
270
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Posted - 2013.01.16 00:37:00 -
[49] - Quote
Goldensaver wrote:Oh god, the Triage Carriers. Brick tanked mega-triage Carriers. If they could energy transfer to each other then that would be ridiculous. Both just run the Triage modules and run the local reps (with a full tank setup since they don't need cap mods) allowing them to tank almost anything, meanwhile giving out remote reps constantly to everyone else while sharing cap between each other.
And with 100+ sens strength :/ |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
813
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Posted - 2013.01.16 02:31:00 -
[50] - Quote
Goldensaver wrote:Oh god, the Triage Carriers. Brick tanked mega-triage Carriers. If they could energy transfer to each other then that would be ridiculous. Both just run the Triage modules and run the local reps (with a full tank setup since they don't need cap mods) allowing them to tank almost anything, meanwhile giving out remote reps constantly to everyone else while sharing cap between each other.
sounds like guardians...
a ddd can alpha a carrier right?
Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
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Goldensaver
Marsuud And Sons Industries
123
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Posted - 2013.01.16 02:48:00 -
[51] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Goldensaver wrote:Oh god, the Triage Carriers. Brick tanked mega-triage Carriers. If they could energy transfer to each other then that would be ridiculous. Both just run the Triage modules and run the local reps (with a full tank setup since they don't need cap mods) allowing them to tank almost anything, meanwhile giving out remote reps constantly to everyone else while sharing cap between each other. sounds like guardians... a ddd can alpha a carrier right? I think I've heard of Archons being able to brick against a single DD, but that's a single fit designed to do almost nothing else. DD's should one-shot any carrier, but they can't be used in low-sec. I know that a dread or two should overcome their tank, it's just that you could have two triage carriers having infinite local and remote rep due to cap transfers between them, in addition to not needing cap mods to keep their cap alive until they come out of triage to recieve remote cap transfer.
In fact 2 cap energy transfers can keep each Archon cap stable at 100% with no cap mods. And for ***** and giggles, you can put a couple SeBo's on them to make them lock even faster, since you don't have cap rechargers blocking up the mids.
I like the thought of ships being neutable should also be able to be capped up by allies. But I just can't help but think of these carriers, you know? |
Cambarus
Aliastra Gallente Federation
247
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Posted - 2013.01.16 03:26:00 -
[52] - Quote
Goldensaver wrote: I know that a dread or two should overcome their tank, it's just that you could have two triage carriers having infinite local and remote rep due to cap transfers between them, in addition to not needing cap mods to keep their cap alive until they come out of triage to recieve remote cap transfer.
In fact 2 cap energy transfers can keep each Archon cap stable at 100% with no cap mods. And for ***** and giggles, you can put a couple SeBo's on them to make them lock even faster, since you don't have cap rechargers blocking up the mids.
I like the thought of ships being neutable should also be able to be capped up by allies. But I just can't help but think of these carriers, you know? So carriers would be like capital logistics ships then? Last I checked a basi/guardian does pretty much exactly what you just described, only on a smaller hull and without the ewar immunity (so like the relationship between a dread and a BS, for example) |
Rajere
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
8
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Posted - 2013.01.16 04:55:00 -
[53] - Quote
Cambarus wrote:Goldensaver wrote: I know that a dread or two should overcome their tank, it's just that you could have two triage carriers having infinite local and remote rep due to cap transfers between them, in addition to not needing cap mods to keep their cap alive until they come out of triage to recieve remote cap transfer.
In fact 2 cap energy transfers can keep each Archon cap stable at 100% with no cap mods. And for ***** and giggles, you can put a couple SeBo's on them to make them lock even faster, since you don't have cap rechargers blocking up the mids.
I like the thought of ships being neutable should also be able to be capped up by allies. But I just can't help but think of these carriers, you know? So carriers would be like capital logistics ships then? Last I checked a basi/guardian does pretty much exactly what you just described, only on a smaller hull and without the ewar immunity (so like the relationship between a dread and a BS, for example) Carriers are capital logistic ships. What they are talking about is in triage where carriers not only become super logi, but more to the point, achieve insane local reps akin to old school dual rep sieged dreads, limited only by their capacitor. If they were able to receive remote cap xfer from other carriers while in triage they would be rediculously overpowered. |
Goldensaver
Marsuud And Sons Industries
123
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Posted - 2013.01.16 06:00:00 -
[54] - Quote
Rajere wrote:Cambarus wrote:Goldensaver wrote: I know that a dread or two should overcome their tank, it's just that you could have two triage carriers having infinite local and remote rep due to cap transfers between them, in addition to not needing cap mods to keep their cap alive until they come out of triage to recieve remote cap transfer.
In fact 2 cap energy transfers can keep each Archon cap stable at 100% with no cap mods. And for ***** and giggles, you can put a couple SeBo's on them to make them lock even faster, since you don't have cap rechargers blocking up the mids.
I like the thought of ships being neutable should also be able to be capped up by allies. But I just can't help but think of these carriers, you know? So carriers would be like capital logistics ships then? Last I checked a basi/guardian does pretty much exactly what you just described, only on a smaller hull and without the ewar immunity (so like the relationship between a dread and a BS, for example) Carriers are capital logistic ships. What they are talking about is in triage where carriers not only become super logi, but more to the point, achieve insane local reps akin to old school dual rep sieged dreads, limited only by their capacitor. If they were able to receive remote cap xfer from other carriers while in triage they would be rediculously overpowered. ^What he said. I was just screwing around with an Archon that didn't need cap management. 2 Archons slinging 2 cap transfers each between them get 2 outgoing reps apiece, and have a local tank of over 17k. They have over 1600 mm sig res, allowing them to instalock almost anything, and they're both cap stable at 100%. They're immune to Ewar, so you can't ECM them to remove those perma-reps/cap, and with that kind of cap-boosting power you can't even neut them short of bringing out a dozen Bhaalgorns, costing them over twice the value of the carriers, at least. And this wasn't some fancy deadspace fit. It was all t1/t2 stuff. With an EHP of over 2m. Not even including implants.
This isn't going to the level of cap logistics. This is god tier logistics. This is taking the basi/guardians and making them completely invincible, short of dropping twice the amount of dreads for each one, or super-caps. They also give un-blockable outgoing reps at ridiculous amounts. |
eddie valvetino
Snuff Box
148
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Posted - 2013.01.16 10:50:00 -
[55] - Quote
the clue is in the name
E-War (Electronic Warfare) and ECM/ECCM (Electronic Counter Measures).
See, the key here is the word Electronic.
Neuts are not and have never been Eletronic, they are Engineering mods...
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Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
32
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Posted - 2013.01.16 11:58:00 -
[56] - Quote
Kirkwood Ross wrote:Instead of fitting Cap Recharger IIs in your mids you should replace them with Large Cap Battery IIs. Gives some protection against neuting until you exit siege then can get cap from your fleetmates.
I think cap batteries only add a fixed amount, so semiconductors are better i guess.
And no, the only way to kill a cap with a small subcap-fleet is to suck him dry in 90% of the cases. If that'd be done, flying a capital means you're invulnerable until people get some serious dps on gird. |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
859
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Posted - 2013.01.16 13:28:00 -
[57] - Quote
I don't think capitals need an extra level of defense from subcap fleets. Capital sized cap boosters/batteries, or invulnerability to neuts would just make subcaps considerably less relevant for fights which is a bad thing |
Cambarus
Aliastra Gallente Federation
247
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Posted - 2013.01.16 13:47:00 -
[58] - Quote
Goldensaver wrote: This isn't going to the level of cap logistics. This is god tier logistics. This is taking the basi/guardians and making them completely invincible, short of dropping twice the amount of dreads for each one, or super-caps. They also give un-blockable outgoing reps at ridiculous amounts.
First bit is wrong. Triage carriers can't rr each other, so, for example, 5 dreads would blap 5 carriers quite quickly and easily, because carrier triage reps don't stack on each other. Second bit is true, tbh I've always found it odd that the capital logi ships are designed to be logi support for sub cap fleets. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
7070
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Posted - 2013.01.16 14:36:00 -
[59] - Quote
Cambarus wrote:Goldensaver wrote: This isn't going to the level of cap logistics. This is god tier logistics. This is taking the basi/guardians and making them completely invincible, short of dropping twice the amount of dreads for each one, or super-caps. They also give un-blockable outgoing reps at ridiculous amounts.
First bit is wrong. Triage carriers can't rr each other, so, for example, 5 dreads would blap 5 carriers quite quickly and easily, because carrier triage reps don't stack on each other. Second bit is true, tbh I've always found it odd that the capital logi ships are designed to be logi support for sub cap fleets.
Or supercap fleets... Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
Justin Cody
Tri-gun C0NVICTED
35
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Posted - 2013.01.16 14:44:00 -
[60] - Quote
Goldensaver wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Goldensaver wrote:Oh god, the Triage Carriers. Brick tanked mega-triage Carriers. If they could energy transfer to each other then that would be ridiculous. Both just run the Triage modules and run the local reps (with a full tank setup since they don't need cap mods) allowing them to tank almost anything, meanwhile giving out remote reps constantly to everyone else while sharing cap between each other. sounds like guardians... a ddd can alpha a carrier right? I think I've heard of Archons being able to brick against a single DD, but that's a single fit designed to do almost nothing else. DD's should one-shot any carrier.
No. Most carriers and even some dreads can be set up with a rep setup that can take a single DD. This mainly comes down to skills and isk. Spending enough isk...I can get a phoenix for example to roughly 11M ehp. That is an omni tank not specific to one race...so yeah multiple DD's there. With a chimera with enough hardeners probably something similar and just as much so if not more so for the archon and rev. Thanatos and Nidhoggur might have more trouble with the Nid having possible a stronger shield buffer and the thanatos having more armor buffer.
Play around a bit in EFT/Pyfa or whatever other tool you wish. You may be surprised.
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