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Auvier Bauvon
Federation Navy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.01.12 15:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
>> CLEARED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE <<
OF1A0-3369-FN395-12-01-115
SUBJECT: Federal Defense Union State Of Affairs ORIGIN: The Office of Federation Navy Admiral of the Fleet, Anteson Ranchel LOCATION: Algogille XIII - Federation Navy Testing Facilities
Ladies and Gentlemen of the Federal Defense Union,
Today the Federation stands tall. Early this morning, news of the FDU's successful efforts to retake Ladistier reached my office.
I cannot help but express my elation, and most profound gratitude for the efforts of each and every one of our service personnel after hearing the news that the Gallente Federation now holds every system within the Caldari-Gallente Theater. This success is a shining example of the strength of the Federal people, and our dedication to ensuring the continued prosperity and success of our great nation's principles and values.
However, I will stress that the words of a great man, a former president of the people, must also echo through the hearts and minds of Federal Citizens everywhere:
"The Federation is not a defined region of space, of planets, of mountains, rivers, or woods. It is a vision." - Former President of the Gallente Federation, Arlette Villers.
That vision is what drives our people, our armed forces, and our objectives both economic, and military. The core and heart of that vision and the fire for it that burns within us all, must continue to beat in tune with the heart of every Federal Citizen across the cluster.
Despite the victory that is proclaimed today, we must never lose sight of the fact that we are still at war. We must continue to be vigilant, and we must continue to remain alert and aware of the Caldari threat to those values we hold so close to our hearts.
As Commanding Officer of the Federation Navy and Admiral of the Fleet, I offer my most sincere gratitude and respect to every one of our service personnel, and every pilot of the FDU for your continued efforts and bravery on the field of battle.
We must remember however, that we are engaged in this war not by choice, but by the will to protect our people and the founding principles of the Federation from an unprovoked attack by the Caldari. As such, I will conclude this address with a second quote that I have personally always held close to my own heart.
"The laws of the Federation were written for the good of the many. Not the good of the Gallente nor the good of the Caldari. Hopefully, we can help them remember this." - Gallente Senator Fronte Belliare, Senate session 23154/T3782.
With the most sincere respect and gratitude,
Anteson Ranchel Admiral of the Fleet Federation Navy Gallente Federation |
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Thoun Gaterau
Federal Intelligence Office Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2013.01.12 15:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
The Federal Intelligence Office, and Special Department of Internal Investigations also offer their most profound gratitute and congratulations to our servicemen and women across the cluster.
Sincerely,
Thoun Gaterau Lead Field Agent Special Department of Internal Investigations Federal Intelligence Office |
Texcoyo
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
0
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Posted - 2013.01.12 15:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
We will continue to sustain vigilance and challenge the State wherever they may be. Our pilots are motivated and are ready to bring freedom to those that have none.
Texcoyo Luminaire General, FDU Quantum Cats Syndicate Grandmaster |
Musaab Osman
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2013.01.12 15:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
Death to the Federation and all those who support them! |
Julianus Soter
Moira. Villore Accords
71
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Posted - 2013.01.12 15:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
The spectacular performance of the FDU has made it clear to all in the Cluster that the Federation will not be bowed before the forces of tyranny and oppression. Tibus Heth's dictatorship has been dealt a blow today, but his reactionary vision of the centralized control of power must be destroyed completely if the free peoples of the Federation and Cluster stand a chance of resting.
I have been honored to be able to serve with the fine men and women of the Federal Defense Union for most of this past year, and have been amazed by their ability to put aside differences of opinion and background to fight together and achieve our goals, the liberation of all systems within the warzone. It truly is a privilege to be able to fly alongside them, and I hope to continue doing so for the foreseeable future.
Good hunting, pilots, and congratulations, you deserve it!
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Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
1004
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Posted - 2013.01.12 15:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Will you be able to hold this territory, i don't think soo.
Texcoyo wrote:We will continue to sustain vigilance and challenge the State wherever they may be. Our pilots are motivated and are ready to bring freedom to those that have none.
Texcoyo Luminaire General, FDU Quantum Cats Syndicate Grandmaster
But do they want our "freedom" ?
This is a proxy war that leads nowhere, weird it didn't yet escalated to a total war. |
Mekhana
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
721
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Posted - 2013.01.12 15:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
I can safely say we're just proud for the opportunity to fight for our convictions and to represent the Federation in it's fight against opression.
Fellow liberators, I salute you. SP-DR is recruiting:http://spdr.enjin.com |
Texcoyo
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
0
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Posted - 2013.01.12 15:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:Will you be able to hold this territory, i don't think soo. Texcoyo wrote:We will continue to sustain vigilance and challenge the State wherever they may be. Our pilots are motivated and are ready to bring freedom to those that have none.
Texcoyo Luminaire General, FDU Quantum Cats Syndicate Grandmaster But do they want our "freedom" ? This is a proxy war that leads nowhere, weird it didn't yet escalated to a total war.
That is the beautiful thing about freedom, no one is forcing them to be here, or in the State. That is their own choice to decide. All we have done is given that choice back to them. |
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
418
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Posted - 2013.01.12 15:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
Funny how the "freedom fighters", who by all means were already free, wish to assimilate an entire people against there will. Sounds all too familiar if you ask me. wumbo |
Desiderya
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
163
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Posted - 2013.01.12 15:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
It's refreshing to see what counts as a liberation and what not. Reassuring control of a lost ancestral homeworld is vile and unprovoked aggression, taking control of an entire region worth of systems that never were sovereign territory is liberation.
An achievement is an achievement, and I'll readily acknowledge that. However, the amount of bias witnessed due to some stalwart defenders of federation ideals here is staggering. If you're still honestly questioning yourselves why not everyone is buying into your visions of freedom, liberty and peaceful coexistence you've got your answers in here.
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Recnarion
Lusitan Initiative Villore Accords
1
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Posted - 2013.01.12 15:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
YEAH BABY, now we need to keep it ours for a few more days until we get the medal for war victory. DEF PLEX. |
Alain Colcer
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
51
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Posted - 2013.01.12 15:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, as capsuleers loyal to the Federation, eternity is in our grasp.
It was and will continue to be an honor flying along fellow pilots contributing on this collective effort to secure our nation's borders and ensure the continuation of our way of life. |
Seriphyn Inhonores
Soltueur Company
322
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Posted - 2013.01.12 16:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Something inside me makes me wish I was still out there with you guys. Alas, that's not to be. Congratulations all the same. This might be a platform for peace talks, but given the Caldari Providence Directorate didn't take the initiative for an end to a war back in their victory in 111, I doubt it. |
pyronatic
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
14
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Posted - 2013.01.12 16:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
We from Mecha Enterprise Fleet are happy to have participated in kicking the caldari out of the area. we enjoy seeing the caldari explode in their failing attempt's to fight us. Caldari looking forward to seeing you in space, Trying to take back systems.
Pyronatic Director of XMETA |
John Vanus
Vanus Technical Solutions Corp Covert Intervention
0
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Posted - 2013.01.12 16:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
Press Release: Covert Intervention Alliance Makes statements in response to the Federal Defense Union Address
11 January, Old Man Star fell. Thanks to You.
"The Old Man Star system was a Caldari Bastion of their forces and symbolic of their power, for years a blight on Gallente Federation sovereignty, and we finally broke it like we have broken the Caldari will to defend what they have left."
"Billions of citizens were liberated from their oppressive business tribunal overlords overnight. What few Caldari loyal forces were left were reduced to skulking in the shadows of adjacent systems running small guerrilla attacks to slow reinforcements moving in."
"Fractures within the Caldari side started months ago, our forces successfully inserting spies into their leadership and trusted ranks, negotiations in smoky rooms with trade suppliers to reduce the supplies available, and finally introducing a set of complex evolving viruses into the Caldari hyper-net to cause their forces to no longer be able to use EWAR systems by their own Navy. no longer supported by large compliments of passive attackers who captured sites at little to now risk and is now culminating in a final battle. 11 January will forever be known as "Liberators Day" in tribute to those forces who gave freedom to those who could not."
"Our team salutes those who trusted us, allowed us to take part in the successful operations, and even followed occasionally when we led. To us, the Gallente Militia in its current form will be remembered as a great team. We hope to continue finding success and share the struggle to defend freedom long into the future" -John Vanus
John Vanus -CEO VANUS Covert Intervention Alliance www.covertintervention.com Recruiting Solid Corporations, Pilots, and Soldiers
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James Syagrius
Ice Incorporated
129
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Posted - 2013.01.12 21:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
Desiderya wrote:It's refreshing to see what counts as a liberation and what not. Reassuring control of a lost ancestral homeworld is vile and unprovoked aggression, taking control of an entire region worth of systems that never were sovereign territory is liberation.
An achievement is an achievement, and I'll readily acknowledge that. However, the amount of bias witnessed due to some stalwart defenders of federation ideals here is staggering. If you're still honestly questioning yourselves why not everyone is buying into your visions of freedom, liberty and peaceful coexistence you've got your answers in here.
Yes yes.. And the only thing more grand than the Federations current hubris is States hypocrisy. Desiderya try to be nobler in defeat than you ever were in victory. Oh, I am so glad the audit went well. Is Master Heth pleased with you now? "We are what we do." |
Desiderya
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
170
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Posted - 2013.01.13 01:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote: Yes yes.. And the only thing more grand than the Federations current hubris is States hypocrisy. Desiderya try to be nobler in defeat than you ever were in victory. Oh, I am so glad the audit went well. Is Master Heth pleased with you now?
The only hypocrisy contained in my statement was the one I've pointed out. If you feel the need to comment that with further ad hominem attacks do go on, I've allocated five minutes of my time just for you coming afternoon. As far as defeat goes: We're not done yet. |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
1545
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Posted - 2013.01.13 03:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
Congratulations are in order. This is certainly a kick in the teeth for the Caldari and a demonstration that the Federation is not easily trifled with, and that any grievance inflicted upon the Federation will be repaid in kind. To all the pilots who participated in this endeavour - my most heartfelt gratitude and admiration. You are truly heroes of the Federation.
To Auvier Bauvon and Anteson Ranchel, to Corbolla Palmezine and Allisa Audere, to Thoun Gaterau and Apaset Orviegnoure I say this - remember that the security and prosperity of the Federation will not be served by this war continuing in perpetuity. Hopefully we'll be able to hold most of the systems we've captured for a prolonged period, but Federal authorities should consider steps that will definitively end this war, rather than simply keep it off our doorstep. We saw three years ago the devastating impact that the war could have on our home territories, and in the occupation of Black Rise we have one of the most excellent bargaining chips in years - if the State wants its region back and its homeworld secure from future occupation attempts, they'll have to negotiate on our terms, not theirs.
We can't keep fighting this war forever, even if we can keep winning it. Something's got to change. Mane 614
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Aquila Shadow
Templis Dragonaors
37
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Posted - 2013.01.13 03:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
Citizens of Black Rise, we have not abandoned you. Even now we are fighting back, even now we are retaking our systems. We will drive the sword of retribution through the heart of the enemy and free those that have been occupied.
We Will Return
Lt Colonel Aquila Shadow State Protectorate
-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á "Let Vigilance Be Your Sword" |
Scherezad
Lai Dai Research Spacelane Security
439
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Posted - 2013.01.13 05:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
Lai Dai Research Spacelane Security reaffirms its commitment to the liberation and defense of Lai Dai and Caldari State employees and their families. We ask our compatriots to steel themselves and show the resolve of our ancestors as we fight to bring a new light to these dark days. You are not forgotten, kirjuun. We return.
Director Scherezad, Lai Dai Research Spacelane Security |
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Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
1546
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Posted - 2013.01.13 05:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
Although, to the Caldari militia, I say only this - you lit this fire, and you are responsible for the people it burns. Mane 614
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Vikarion
Liandri Corporation Liandri Covenant
159
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Posted - 2013.01.13 05:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Although, to the Caldari militia, I say only this - you lit this fire, and you are responsible for the people it burns.
So much for "the Caldari should have their homeworld back", eh? I didn't figure it would last. We lit this fire when it became clear that we weren't getting it back by any other means. |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
1549
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Posted - 2013.01.13 05:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
Vikarion wrote:So much for "the Caldari should have their homeworld back", eh? I didn't figure it would last. We lit this fire when it became clear that we weren't getting it back by any other means.
That's your opinion, and your inference on my opinions - which, despite the fact that you seem dedicated to dictating them for me, have not changed. Trust me, I still think that the best peaceful resolution to this conflict is for the Caldari to get their planet back, but it is the responsibility of the Federal militia to ensure that if the Caldari believe the only way to get it back is to do violence against our people, they will never get it back, and they will lose a lot more than just their homeworld in the process of trying.
Fortunately, from the looks of things, they seem to be doing a fairly good job of that at the moment. The Provists began this war with an act of unprovoked and barbaric aggression, and in doing so soiled the honour of all Caldari almost irreparably. With every passing day, however, it seems more and more like the Federation will end it. Hopefully they will do so in a manner that creates a lasting peace and an atmosphere of mutual trust and co-operation between our two peoples - which is the goal I am presently working towards - but failing that I would accept a manner that serves the core ideals and the contemporary interests of the Federation.
Maybe you should educate yourself and read the other post I made in this thread. Just because I am sensitive to the grievances of the Caldari State does not in any way mean that I believe the Federation should simply roll over and accept abuse. For all the Caldari talk of indomitable will to succeed and unceasing vigilance, some of you seem to have forgotten that you aren't the only ones possessed of these qualities. The Federation has survived for centuries, and its core ideals for much longer - do you believe that we are not, in our hearts, as dedicated to our beliefs as you? Mane 614
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Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
719
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Posted - 2013.01.13 06:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
Eli Green wrote:Funny how the "freedom fighters", who by all means were already free, wish to assimilate an entire people against there will. Sounds all too familiar if you ask me.
Yes, yes it does sound all to familiar.
EvE Forum Bingo |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
1549
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Posted - 2013.01.13 06:10:00 -
[25] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:Yes, yes it does sound all to familiar.
Go and discuss Amarr-Minmatar affairs in a thread where they're relevant, Katran. Perhaps slather some more of that signature boomerang bigotry you're so famous for in there for good measure. Mane 614
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Hans Nardieu
Federal Nationalist Party
36
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Posted - 2013.01.13 06:45:00 -
[26] - Quote
What a grand achievement! I heartily congratulate all the fine warriors involved.
Now, to Luminaire VII and all occupied territory is returned to the hands of the Federation. Col. Hans Nardieu (ret.) Chairman, National Party of the Federated Union of Gallente Prime Office of the Party Headquarters, Villore VII-6 Senate Bureau Station |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
1549
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Posted - 2013.01.13 06:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Hans Nardieu wrote:What a grand achievement! I heartily congratulate all the fine warriors involved.
Now, to Luminaire VII and all occupied territory is returned to the hands of the Federation.
And do you honestly think this will solve matters? Mane 614
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Hans Nardieu
Federal Nationalist Party
36
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Posted - 2013.01.13 06:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
And do you honestly think this will solve matters?
Not at all, I'm a realist that way, but ends are not the proper way to decide the correct course of action. Col. Hans Nardieu (ret.) Chairman, National Party of the Federated Union of Gallente Prime Office of the Party Headquarters, Villore VII-6 Senate Bureau Station |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
1549
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Posted - 2013.01.13 06:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
Hans Nardieu wrote:Not at all, I'm a realist that way, but ends are not the proper way to decide the correct course of action.
Then why should we take a course of action that will not assist us in any manner and will make the war worse? Seizing Caldari Prime will only serve to ensure that the Caldari will continue fighting us. The aim of every right-thinking man in the Federation should be to find a way to end the conflict on terms that are agreeable to our nation. Mane 614
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Hans Nardieu
Federal Nationalist Party
36
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Posted - 2013.01.13 07:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
Because the planet is Federal territory by rights and will remain so until the people of the Federation or their rightfully elected representatives decide otherwise.
Col. Hans Nardieu (ret.) Chairman, National Party of the Federated Union of Gallente Prime Office of the Party Headquarters, Villore VII-6 Senate Bureau Station |
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Vikarion
Liandri Corporation Liandri Covenant
160
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Posted - 2013.01.13 07:20:00 -
[31] - Quote
Hans Nardieu wrote:Because the planet is Federal territory by rights and will remain so until the people of the Federation or their rightfully elected representatives decide otherwise.
By what right, precisely? |
Henry Montclaire
42nd Devils and Dragons Dalek Asylum
31
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Posted - 2013.01.13 08:18:00 -
[32] - Quote
That the Federal Defense Union and Federation Navy haveachieved this much, despite their current lack of proper funding or political support is a testament to the quality of its leadership and vision. From my comfortable abode far from the conflict, I applaud you. |
Vikarion
Liandri Corporation Liandri Covenant
160
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Posted - 2013.01.13 08:49:00 -
[33] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote: That's your opinion, and your inference on my opinions - which, despite the fact that you seem dedicated to dictating them for me, have not changed. Trust me, I still think that the best peaceful resolution to this conflict is for the Caldari to get their planet back, but it is the responsibility of the Federal militia to ensure that if the Caldari believe the only way to get it back is to do violence against our people, they will never get it back, and they will lose a lot more than just their homeworld in the process of trying.
I don't believe I've been dictating your opinions. Indeed, by definition, a question, however incorrectly phrased - if mine was - cannot be a dictation. It's useful to have a better understanding of one's enemies, and also to understand the degree to which another is an enemy. Your explanation is useful to me, although, I think, somewhat inconsistent.
Andreus Ixiris wrote: Fortunately, from the looks of things, they seem to be doing a fairly good job of that at the moment. The Provists began this war with an act of unprovoked and barbaric aggression, and in doing so soiled the honour of all Caldari almost irreparably. With every passing day, however, it seems more and more like the Federation will end it. Hopefully they will do so in a manner that creates a lasting peace and an atmosphere of mutual trust and co-operation between our two peoples - which is the goal I am presently working towards - but failing that I would accept a manner that serves the core ideals and the contemporary interests of the Federation.
Ah, the inconsistency. I do not understand how you can claim that the Caldari should possess their homeworld, but deny the morality of their attempt at claiming it. It is fairly well known that the State made it's desire for the return of the Homeworld quite clear long before the current war, and also well known that the Federation was utterly unwilling to even consider the subject. Given such, if a right is violated, and other redress is not possible, is it not reasonable for the injured party to pursue the redress anyway?
I find - I think - another inconsistency in your commitment to both a personal goal of mutually beneficial interaction, and Federation ideals. The Federation is an expansionist power, that is to say, it has been and is continuing a policy of incorporating or conquering other cultures and states. This is not inherently an evil process, but a core Federation ideal is that the values of an individualistic lifestyle, democracy, and cosmopolitanism must be extended to all humans, preferably (and to Nationalists, absolutely) under the banner of the Federation. These goals cannot be reconciled with the existence of the Caldari State and the Caldari culture. Therefore, while I might agree with your ideals, I cannot agree with the idea that your ideals can be implemented along with the preservation of classical Federation values without the utter destruction of the Caldari State and people in every respect.
Andreus Ixiris wrote: Maybe you should educate yourself and read the other post I made in this thread. Just because I am sensitive to the grievances of the Caldari State does not in any way mean that I believe the Federation should simply roll over and accept abuse. For all the Caldari talk of indomitable will to succeed and unceasing vigilance, some of you seem to have forgotten that you aren't the only ones possessed of these qualities. The Federation has survived for centuries, and its core ideals for much longer - do you believe that we are not, in our hearts, as dedicated to our beliefs as you?
This was the post that interested me. I perfectly understand that you are not willing to see the Federation burn. Indeed, even supposing - hypothetically - that you believed that the State was justified in every respect in its war, I would still understand a desire not to see one's home and culture destroyed. This is one tragedy of war. But there are considerations, too, that may be made. I remember Verin Hakatain advocating that the State should not occupy more than its own territory in the faction war.
As for the will to succeed, I make no judgment about the quality of the will of the Federation. My opinion is that the State must simply do whatever it is necessary to do in order to break it. I am aware of how much devastation the Federation is usually willing to inflict on its enemies, whether they are bombarding cities on Caldari Prime, or burning traitors in front of crowds. And that's why I hold that the State must win this war, because we may be assured that, despite moderates like yourself, the will of the Gallente people is too often homicidal to risk anything else. It is possible, even very likely, that a Federation victory would result in no less devastation and destruction to the Caldari people than the Federation originally sought to visit on them.
Therefore, I will do, and am committed to do, whatever it takes to preserve the Caldari people, nation, and culture. If that means defending Black Rise only, I will defend Black Rise only. If that means occupying Placid to break Federate will, I will fight to occupy Placid. If it meant - and I do not think for a minute that it does - but if preserving my nation, culture, and people required the orbital bombardment of every Federation planet and station until they were radioactive cinders, I would do so, with reluctance, but without regret. Indeed, if the survival of the Caldari people required me to do so to every empire, sleeper, and criminal world, I would attempt the task. Because that is what love and loyalty to ones own means.
You may notice that I answered your question about "will" with a reference to my own. This is because I cannot truly know the will of the Federation as it actually exists, or that of the Caldari people. I can only use my own, and my observations, as a guide |
Pieter Tuulinen
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
222
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Posted - 2013.01.13 09:04:00 -
[34] - Quote
As I said in response to the other communique trumpeting victory - congratulations to the FDU and its pilots for a hard-fought campaign in which they ably demonstrated their talents and determination.
As I said in response to the other communique trumpeting victory - you have won nothing lasting. Your control of the region was never uncontested, your dominance of the systems was never uncontested. Your success in fleet battles was never uncontested.
And even if it had been. Even if you had, as you claimed, broken the Caldari will to fight on - where would your next system capture have been? I'll tell you - nowhere. Not one foot outside the arena that has been created for you by CONCORD. You trumpet your victories in Black Rise - but the Leviathan still orbits Caldari Prime. You trumpet your victories in Black Rise - but Caldari Navy ships are mere minutes from your cultural capital.
This struggle, as I said, is not about Systems or Killmails or Isk burned or made. It is about reminding you of one thing.
There is no place that your vast and vaunted Federation can drive us from that we cannot return to. Not Caldari Prime, not Okagaiken. We will return. We will always return.
Podded pilots can be recloned. Destroyed ships can be rebuilt. Conquered system can be recaptured. The State is secure, the Caldari people retain their independence. |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
1550
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Posted - 2013.01.13 09:49:00 -
[35] - Quote
Your command of history is worryingly inaccurate. For a start, the Treaty of Tierijev the Caldari signed at the end of the first Gallente-Caldari war rescinded their claim to the planet, and left if under Federal jurisdiction. Now, I've heard a lot of Caldari talk about how unfair this clause of the treaty was, and we can run a debate literally forever on that particular subject but the simple fact remains is that unlike the treaty that was signed a century later when the Federation ceded control of the planet back to the State, the State did not sign that treaty under coercion - a member homeworld of theirs was not under threat of annihilation. In fact, if you were to read any history book in the State printed prior to major revisions ordered by the Heth administration, you'd know the final decision to leave the planet in the hands of the Federation was actually made by the CEP, who believed there was little sense in trying to hold the world.
Now, again, we can debate literally forever as to whether that clause was fair or just, and still not reach an agreement. What we do not need to debate on is that the State signed the Treaty of Tierijev and agreed to its terms. Now, I'm by no means an expert in Heiian culture, but I do believe one of the most dishonourable acts a Caldari can commit in his culture is breaking a formal agreement he's made with someone else. Now, the fact that the State did break this agreement would imply one of two equally unpleasant things:
1. The peace agreement was not made in good faith, and the State negotiators signed it in the spirit of deception. 2. The peace agreement was made in good faith by those who signed it, but that confidence was duly spat upon by those who invaded Luminaire in YC110.
I for one prefer the second explanation, as it doesn't bring the honour of the entire State into question - only those who undertook an unprovoked invasion of what was at the time, by the State's own admission, sovereign Federal territory. This is for largely the same reason I ask people not to judge the entire Federation by the acts of Luc Duvailer and the Ultranationalists.
One of the reasons the Federation has never been able to accept any subsequent Caldari solution to the Caldari Prime problem is that the Caldari have never offered any reasonable solution as to what precisely we're supposed to do with the hundreds of millions of Federal citizens living on it. Apparently, the State still hasn't come up with one yet, as the communications blackout on the planet's surface attests - clearly, whatever's happening to the civlians, Heth doesn't want us to know about it. Another reason it was loathe to do so is most solutions would posit a bubble of Caldari military influence deep inside Federal territory. Federation officials were deeply concerned that the State would use the first chance after obtaining this it got to inflict some form of retributive damage upon us for past sins - and I don't think the events of the past few years, nor attitudes like yours, have helped particularly in convincing them this isn't the case.
Next, your characterisation of the Federation as "conquering" other cultures and states is willfully deceptive, and we have only "incorporated" in as much as we've offered them the option of joining us. Unlike the Empire, there has not, in the history of the Federation, been a situation in which we have forcibly integrated an unwilling culture into the Federation - indeed, on some worlds within Federation borders, you can go to various temperate worlds and find examples of cultures who rejected integration or even contact with the rest of the Federation. Admittedly, they're not particularly well-developed in terms of technology or culture, but since they don't want anything to do with us, that really isn't our problem. I will also remind you that the Caldari assisted in the founding of the Federation by choice.
The Federation couldn't really even be described as a Gallentean cultural hegemony because member states by and large retain their own cultures. In fact, the Jin-Mei caste system violates a lot of the basic, fundamental requirements of a Federal member state, but we let them keep in literally everything but name (and even then the names remain) because, honestly, it seems to work for them and they aren't trying to make anyone else live by it. It's really not our problem. Justifying a continued opposition of the Federation's core values based on a faulty understanding of them doesn't stand as a valid argument. Likewise, bringing up two pretty damn isolated examples of extremism - the bombing of Caldari Prime (executed under an unelected, illegitimate far-right government) and the execution of Eturer (occuring during a period of intense political and economic strife) - and painting them as indicative of a "homicidal" nature within the Federation's people is deeply disingenuous - not to mention deeply hypocritical, especially for a man who vowed that the "skies of Placid will burn."
Lastly, occupying Placid didn't break our will the last time. In fact, if you look at the map right now, it did precisely the opposite, not to mention it put Roden in power, who, despite his corporate background, has proven even less ameanable to the Caldari than his precedecessors. When one considers broken wills, in fact, one must observe that this is the first time in the history of the conflict in which the Caldari militia has not held numerical supremacy over the FDU. Clearly, some of your pilots have lost the will to fight. Mane 614
|
Atlas Zao-tsu
University of Caille Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 11:38:00 -
[36] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:In fact, the Jin-Mei caste system violates a lot of the basic, fundamental requirements of a Federal member state, but we let them keep in literally everything but name (and even then the names remain) because, honestly, it seems to work for them and they aren't trying to make anyone else live by it.
Psh. Like hell you 'let us'. The provisions for undermining the caste system were part of our charter, but the will of the rest of the Federation failed before us and you ultimately decided that trying to change us wasn't worth pushing us to secede. Good choice, by the way!
It's why you like having us (and the Mannar) around. We like a good scrape and provide a solid counterpart to Intaki and Gallentean 'water' ideals. And we have, in turn, gained much from your flexibility and will to change. A most favorable union indeed.
Oh, also remember that the Caldari sense of upholding their word really only extends as far as other Caldari. State Caldari aren't quite the team players they're portrayed to be. |
Tiny Dynamine
Animatar Foundation
2
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 11:39:00 -
[37] - Quote
A very brief communique of congratulations to those who fought with great merit and tenacity for the Federation. A Federation who have always extended a hand of friendship to the diverse peoples of the Ani Constellation in Metropolis, yesterday and today.
And, yes, do shut up, Katran. |
Desiderya
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
173
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 12:13:00 -
[38] - Quote
I knew it wouldn't take long for Ixiris to show his true colours again. Hubris is contagious, after all. In regards of the Tierjiev treaty you should consider another possibility:
3) It was signed out of necessity.
Also consider this a great opportunity that caldari, by all means, are not homogenous in their opinions and goals. It was a decision by the CEP at that time and was followed. Back then the prime concern was retaining independance. The survival was solved by the exodus the federation has forced on the caldari. It is no wonder that a practical decision favored an end of hostilities over an empty planet, especially with the largely unknown interests and capabilities of the amarr empire at this time.
Today, there are more and more who consider this decision a mistake, and the balance of power has shifted towards those groups. Rising tensions with the federation were expected, since after war has failed to subjugate the State, cultural imperialism was in full swing, and the Caldari Prime question is a paramount example for the way the federation negotiates on this basis. Claiming that there haven't been any reasonable offers on behalf of the State is veiling, since the caldari interest in this planet is much higher than its importance for the federation, despite having settled it after the exodus. Enclaves or, preferably, resettlement to other federal worlds are such an obvious solution together with a DMZ that it shouldn't take you too long to figure it out for yourselves.
The situation is simple. The State did not accept any terms that challenge our chosen system of goverment to make it more similar to the federation, and the federation did not make any other suggestions, seeing as Caldari Prime was the perfect tool and monument of cultural subjugation.
I also want to impart a certain piece of information with you. For [i]us[/+¡], the gallente population on this planet is of no importance. There is nothing to gain from mistreating them, nor is there
|
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
1555
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 12:29:00 -
[39] - Quote
Desiderya wrote:I knew it wouldn't take long for Ixiris to show his true colours again.
Baseless and utterly unsupported personal attacks? And here I thought WHG represented a new paradigm in a STPRO that's been craven and honourless for almost two years. How disappointing.
Desiderya wrote:In regards of the Tierjiev treaty you should consider another possibility:
3) It was signed out of necessity.
Also consider this a great opportunity that caldari, by all means, are not homogenous in their opinions and goals. It was a decision by the CEP at that time and was followed. Back then the prime concern was retaining independance. The survival was solved by the exodus the federation has forced on the caldari. It is no wonder that a practical decision favored an end of hostilities over an empty planet, especially with the largely unknown interests and capabilities of the amarr empire at this time.
No - in fact, I fairly aptly demonstrated that it was not. The State was under no form of coercion, and it was by no means a neccessity that the Caldari stopped the war - Kaalakiota, in fact, was making a mint off of it. However, both sides wisely saw that the war was benefiting no-one other than the weapons manufacturers and the gravediggers. Besides, even if the Caldari had signed the treaty out of neccessity, that doesn't make the fact that they broke it any less dishonourable, especially since it was over a matter which the CEP had largely been responsible for deciding the handling of in the first place.
Desiderya wrote:Today, there are more and more who consider this decision a mistake, and the balance of power has shifted towards those groups. Rising tensions with the federation were expected, since after war has failed to subjugate the State, cultural imperialism was in full swing, and the Caldari Prime question is a paramount example for the way the federation negotiates on this basis. Claiming that there haven't been any reasonable offers on behalf of the State is veiling, since the caldari interest in this planet is much higher than its importance for the federation, despite having settled it after the exodus. Enclaves or, preferably, resettlement to other federal worlds are such an obvious solution together with a DMZ that it shouldn't take you too long to figure it out for yourselves.
Disingenuous in the extreme. Show me a news article, a diplomatic transcript, a minutes of these reasonable offers you claim the Federation has rejected out of hand.
Desiderya wrote:I also want to impart a certain piece of information with you. For [i]us[/+¡], the gallente population on this planet is of no importance. There is nothing to gain from mistreating them, nor is there
Then why can't we talk to them? In fact, since your leadership is so desperate to expunge people who've been living there for their entire lives, why won't you the people who want to leave go? What's happening on Caldari Prime that's so important that you simply don't have enough time to let refugees leave? Mane 614
|
Seriphyn Inhonores
Soltueur Company
327
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 14:06:00 -
[40] - Quote
I've always found it amazing how an interstellar empire composed of billions across many star systems and planets continues to base its domestic and foreign policies around one world, a world which they have no tangible claim to other than "Because we said so". No wonder they're allied with the Amarrians; both put significant stock in acting according to ancient principles. Some would call that backwards. In comparison, Federation policies are a bit more grounded in the here-and-now; the population of Caldari Prime do not identify with the State, and thus the union acts according to that principle. In theory, at least. Reactionary versus pre-emptive politics is another debate.
At any rate, I doubt the occupying junta on Caldari Prime see any sense in uprooting the population of the planet. Moving billions of unwilling people? Good luck. They were the ones that were born there, not anyone in the contemporary State. Unless you seriously want to dump the entire State population onto that world, if you're so obsessed about it.
But apparently it's about the symbolism. So much for Caldari pragmatism. |
|
Desiderya
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
173
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 14:26:00 -
[41] - Quote
Ixiris wrote: Baseless and utterly unsupported personal attacks? And here I thought WHG represented a new paradigm in a STPRO that's been craven and honourless for almost two years. How disappointing.
If you think calling you out as a someone willingly beating the war drums after all counts as a personal attack I can't help you. Your aggressive response proved my point well enough, and I thank you for this.
Regarding the details of negotiations about the homeworld let's simply exchange notes. I'll show you the State's secret diplomatic transcripts and you show me the federation's secret messages. The simple fact that there is and always was a sizeable interest in the homeworld and the fact that, by now, we've even seen no other way but going to war over the issue should show you how important this question is and was domestically. Heth's rise to power was based on this very sentiment. Of course, past history of dealings with the federation have nothing to do with ressentiments that fueled this political situation.
The reclaiming of the homeworld should be seen as dishonorable - ludicrous. Foiritian accepted the terms on the eve of the invasion, which did not include more than sovereign control over the homeworld. The fact that there was such an eagerness to continue the war is the reason why Caldari Prime is still under martial law. Questioning why people, especially those belonging to the entity one is at war with, are not allowed to move or communicate freely is a waste of time since the reasons are that obvious.
|
Desiderya
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
173
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 14:28:00 -
[42] - Quote
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:I've always found it amazing how an interstellar empire composed of billions across many star systems and planets continues to base its domestic and foreign policies around one world, a world which they have no tangible claim to other than "Because we said so". No wonder they're allied with the Amarrians; both put significant stock in acting according to ancient principles. Some would call that backwards. In comparison, Federation policies are a bit more grounded in the here-and-now; the population of Caldari Prime do not identify with the State, and thus the union acts according to that principle. In theory, at least. Reactionary versus pre-emptive politics is another debate.
At any rate, I doubt the occupying junta on Caldari Prime see any sense in uprooting the population of the planet. Moving billions of unwilling people? Good luck. They were the ones that were born there, not anyone in the contemporary State. Unless you seriously want to dump the entire State population onto that world, if you're so obsessed about it.
But apparently it's about the symbolism. So much for Caldari pragmatism.
No tangible claim other than 'We say so'. Your insight is remarkable, captain Inhonores.
|
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
1559
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 15:34:00 -
[43] - Quote
Desiderya wrote:If you think calling you out as a someone willingly beating the war drums after all counts as a personal attack
It does if you're making commentary as to my character, and more importantly it does if you're lying. Mane 614
|
Desiderya
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
173
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 15:39:00 -
[44] - Quote
It's a hit dog that barks. |
Mekhana
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
725
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 16:00:00 -
[45] - Quote
Bitter Caldari loyalists chest beating in places where they should just stay quiet and not make themselves look bad.
IGS never changes. SP-DR is recruiting:http://spdr.enjin.com |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
1562
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 18:35:00 -
[46] - Quote
Desiderya wrote:It's a hit dog that barks.
Continue to spout inaccurate aphorisms. The time you're using to do that is time you're not using to reclaim Caldari territory in Black Rise, which, by logical extension, is time you're not spending getting any closer to Federal territory. Regardless of my opinions on peace, the State Protectorate being far away from our holdings is objectively a good thing. Mane 614
|
Pieter Tuulinen
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
228
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 18:41:00 -
[47] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Desiderya wrote:It's a hit dog that barks. Continue to spout inaccurate aphorisms. The time you're using to do that is time you're not using to reclaim Caldari territory in Black Rise, which, by logical extension, is time you're not spending getting any closer to Federal territory. Regardless of my opinions on peace, the State Protectorate being far away from our holdings is objectively a good thing.
Andreus, if I can just point out that you yourself used the language 'Reclaiming Caldari territory in Black Rise' mere moments after you suggested that the Gallente Federation had never used force to integrate new territory into the Federation. Whilst speaking to people whose homeworld was blockaded, bombarded from space and invaded forcibly to reintegrate it into the Federation. Whilst speaking in a thread celebrating the forcible integration of Caldari Black Rise into the Federation.
You're usually not like this, Andreus. What's gotten into you? |
Henry Montclaire
42nd Devils and Dragons Dalek Asylum
31
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 18:41:00 -
[48] - Quote
I should mention Desiderya, that as someone who has gone to great lengths to extricate himself from Gallentian politics and as someone who has assisted the Caldari Navy many times in the past in dealing with legitimate threats to Caldari security, it is my estimation that you are coming across as the loser in your verbal clashes with Mr. Ixiris.
I would suggest that you disengage and allow someone with more tact and a firmer grasp of diplomacy take up the fight.
I do not think there is anyone sensible, on either side of the conflict, who approves of the current situation. So long as the state maintains a titan in Luminaire, this situation will only continue to escalate. The FDU has proven in this conflict that the Caldari Navy no longer enjoys the supremacy it once had, and if Heth does not choose to adopt a more diplomatic approach, I fear this will end as a tragedy for us all.
Luminaire is the home to both of our home worlds. It should be a peaceful place for trade and cultural exchange, not a war zone or monument to fear and genocide. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
230
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 18:47:00 -
[49] - Quote
Msr Montclaire, if I could point out that the Caldari Navy and the Federal Navy have never clashed in the Capsuleer Proxy war?
The strategic collapse in Black Rise was predicated by some Rules of Engagement changes promulgated by CONCORD leading to a mass exodus of offended Caldari Militia supporters. It was exacerbated by the better organisation and coordination of FDU member organisations.
Quite frequently one sees Federation pilots in Minmatar or Caldari ships. Or Caldari pilots in Gallente or Amarr ships.
The current situation in Black Rise has absolutely no bearing on the Caldari Navy or the Federation Navy. It will not affect the situation over Home in the slightest. Nor will it cause any expansion of Federation Territory at the expense of the State outside of the borderzone. |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
1563
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 18:59:00 -
[50] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Andreus, if I can just point out that you yourself used the language 'Reclaiming Caldari territory in Black Rise' mere moments after you suggested that the Gallente Federation had never used force to integrate new territory into the Federation. Whilst speaking to people whose homeworld was blockaded, bombarded from space and invaded forcibly to reintegrate it into the Federation. Whilst speaking in a thread celebrating the forcible integration of Caldari Black Rise into the Federation.
I actually have it on good authority from a credible source - that would be Allisa Audere, of the FDU - that the Federation has no intent to launch planetary occupations of the kind that the Caldari perpetrated on our planets when they occupied our systems, so what's actually happening here is that Black Rise is subject to more of a space-based interdiction. It would seem that the Federation learned from your mistakes, and doesn't intent to repeat them itself.
So you don't need to worry about the fate of your citizens.
In the new region you opened up.
Solely for the purpose of presenting another front in the war.
That you started.
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:You're usually not like this, Andreus. What's gotten into you?
Perhaps I'm tired.
Perhaps I'm tired of having my sincere efforts at peace laughed at and scorned by the people I'm trying to protect.
Perhaps I'm tired of having the people I do my best to advocate for spit in my face.
Perhaps I'm tired of having the CEP itself tell me that the political realities in the State make the people who want peace the most utterly powerless.
Or perhaps it was just that the nutrition pack I got today was lobster.
Perhaps I hate lobster. Mane 614
|
|
Henry Montclaire
42nd Devils and Dragons Dalek Asylum
32
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 19:03:00 -
[51] - Quote
I do not believe that is entirely true, but even if it is it may have more importance than you assume. If the Federation zeitgeist turns to war, the story of our two civilizations will grow ever more tragic. What has happened in Black Rise may grant those within the Federation who seek war more public support. This will translate into more political and financial support for the Federation Navy. The best thing the State could do now would be to show itself to be a reasonable actor, and to openly commit itself to seeking a diplomatic resolution.
Hold your ground, sure, retake systems, fine, but for all of sakes don't go chest-beating and threatening to burn skies. The reaction of the media and public perceptions within the Federation are far more important than the tactical situation within Black Rise. The success of the FDU has given people hope that the Federation could defeat the infamous Caldari military machine.
Passions have a power in the Federation that they lack in other Empires. This needs to be kept in mind. |
Simon Louvaki
Sengokuvaa Corporation
13
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 19:15:00 -
[52] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote: No - in fact, I fairly aptly demonstrated that it was not. The State was under no form of coercion, and it was by no means a neccessity that the Caldari stopped the war - Kaalakiota, in fact, was making a mint off of it. However, both sides wisely saw that the war was benefiting no-one other than the weapons manufacturers and the gravediggers. Besides, even if the Caldari had signed the treaty out of neccessity, that doesn't make the fact that they broke it any less dishonourable, especially since it was over a matter which the CEP had largely been responsible for deciding the handling of in the first place.
Mr. Ixiris,
I humbly suggest you re-read known historical documents in regards to your accusation that the Caldari State relinquished rights over Caldari Prime after the treaty of Iyen-Oursta; This is factually incorrect, Caldari Prime was never ceded and only remained under Gallente control i.e. occupation.
To your main point: anyone with an neutral understanding of the conflict would recognize that the Caldari State in it infancy had no chance of humbling the Federation or landing a victory that would firmly put the Federation at the mercy of the States will. I realize and respect your obligation to your nation and military, but neither of those require historical ignorance.
The coercion you overlook comes in the form of hopeless continuation of war with no prospect of victory, and I'd be very pleased if you would show me proof to your accusation that the State and its corporations (KK as you named them specifically) were simply making nothing but profit off the conflict. While the Federation never anchored a Titan over Caldari Prime and threatened to liquidate the populace they made it clear that peace would not be achieved with the Caldari sitting firmly on the doorstep of their homeworld. It's very plainly stated in fact.
So lets be perfectly honest here. Caldari Prime, even had the Caldari won any real decisive victory, would have never been ceded with its proximity so close to Gallente Prime. Especially with the bad blood between our two people over the course of a bloody and unnecessary war. We've each done terrible things to each other and I doubt we will ever see eye to eye but denying our individual wrongs will never extinguish the fires of hatred between us, and neither will the out right belligerent behavior.
Aside from that, formal peace was never achieved and a ceasefire was instated. Our war never ended and Caldari Prime for all intensive purposes remained an occupied asset of the Caldari State, that is again unless you come up with any documents stating to the contrary.
Respectfully,
Simon Louvaki "Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu." |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
1565
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 19:45:00 -
[53] - Quote
Oh, and tired of refuting historical inaccuracies that people should know are wrong.
You can bet your sweet ass I'm tired of that. Mane 614
|
Simon Louvaki
Sengokuvaa Corporation
16
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 20:40:00 -
[54] - Quote
Yes im sure whatever they tell you in the federation is of the utmost accuracy. Do be as so kind to enlighten me then on my innacuracy (sources would be most prudent) and it wouldnt hurt to be a bit more suferable. Its most unatractive when you answer eveything with a snide.
"Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu." |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
1565
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 20:53:00 -
[55] - Quote
Tired of people lecturing me about my poor attitude towards intentional disingenuity?
Oh, you ****ing bet. Mane 614
|
Simon Louvaki
Sengokuvaa Corporation
17
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 21:18:00 -
[56] - Quote
and its unfortunate you feel that way, but I was being sincere despite your tactless assumptions to the contray. If your incapable or unwilling of polite and respectful discussion I'll happily withdraw, but lets not live in a fantasy world where the Federation is unresponsible for its own machinations. "Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu." |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
1565
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 21:21:00 -
[57] - Quote
Basic Federation History 101. Go read it.
Now **** off. Mane 614
|
Simon Louvaki
Sengokuvaa Corporation
17
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 21:37:00 -
[58] - Quote
Perhapse you should do the same, given it simply reiterates the links i posted and maintains that Caldari Prime remained under Gallente CONTROL, but then theirs nothing about the State relinquishing claims to the planet itself. Return was inevitable and remained a core goal for future generations. If your Federation was taken aback by a resuming of hostilities then its their own fault for being unprepared for the inevitable, which no in the State tried to hide.
I assume you have something more substantial correct? and really, theres no need to be rude. "Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu." |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
1571
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 21:41:00 -
[59] - Quote
No. Apparently, whatever standard of proof I give you would be insufficient to convince you that the Caldari signed a treaty which acknowledged Federal sovereignty over Caldari Prime - it seems I could drag a serving member of the CEP out here (I'm actually on last-name terms with one now, you see) and have them attest to such a thing and you'd still consider it insufficient evidence. And yes, it was a surprise to the Federation that the State violated pretty much every single treaty it ever signed with both the Federation and CONCORD, ending a peace between our two nations that had stood for more than a century.
The thing about ****ing insanity is that it's by nature unpredictable. Mane 614
|
Scherezad
Lai Dai Research Spacelane Security
441
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 21:56:00 -
[60] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:No. Apparently, whatever standard of proof I give you would be insufficient to convince you that the Caldari signed a treaty which acknowledged Federal sovereignty over Caldari Prime - it seems I could drag a serving member of the CEP out here (I'm actually on last-name terms with one now, you see) and have them attest to such a thing and you'd still consider it insufficient evidence. And yes, it was a surprise to the Federation that the State violated pretty much every single treaty it ever signed with both the Federation and CONCORD, ending a peace between our two nations that had stood for more than a century.
The thing about ****ing insanity is that it's by nature unpredictable.
I hadn't read that document before; thank you for supplying it. I will have to consider it before publicly changing position, but it's given me something to think about.
And, Mr. Ixiris. You are getting upset, and slinging around phrases that support you but are either meaningless or incorrect. Insanity is, generally, predictable. That's why we can categorize, diagnose and assist in treating it.
Surely you can't expect any of us to be happy about recent events, or to retreat in silence. Calmness, sir. The peace you desire will not be found on this battlefield. It will be formed on another. |
|
Simon Louvaki
Sengokuvaa Corporation
17
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 22:01:00 -
[61] - Quote
Given you have only given a reiteration of the very information i included i think your being extremly judgmental and ignorant in regards to my character. I simply asked to rebuff your claim with expressed fact. if you could get your friend to testify then Id be more than happy to acknowledge your claim. "Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu." |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
1158
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 22:39:00 -
[62] - Quote
Look here at the people trumpeting victory in a fight with no stated victory objectives, or end in sight. |
Mammal Tafren
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
43
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 00:24:00 -
[63] - Quote
The wounded animal will often bite the hand that feeds them. Andreus repudiates the Ultra-Nationalists and calls for an end to the war and is insulted in return. Calamulav.
|
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
1580
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 04:19:00 -
[64] - Quote
Mammal Tafren wrote:The wounded animal will often bite the hand that feeds them. Andreus repudiates the Ultra-Nationalists and calls for an end to the war and is insulted in return. Calamulav.
You see this guy right here?
This guy gets it.
Mane 614
|
Simon Louvaki
Sengokuvaa Corporation
17
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 04:28:00 -
[65] - Quote
redacted : Nonconstructive. "Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu." |
Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
326
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 05:14:00 -
[66] - Quote
As long as we're quoting, let me quote someone that was blamed for something that might have provoked the "unprovoked attack by the Caldari".
"I have long worked to bring total peace between the State and Federation. Once we were joined as brothers. And though those days have long passed, there is nothing that should keep us from being friends."
"We must always remain diligent against the specter of war. It is only through constant vigilance, not empty words and paltry gestures, that we can ensure that our children grow up in a world without war. I hope the leaders on all sides can follow my example and work toward peace."
-Admiral Alexander Noir
To my knowledge, the Federation Navy has never answered the question about what would drive Noir to ram his Nyx into the Ishukone HQ. I therefore am not completely convinced that some in the Navy did not provoke this attack, and simultaniously frame Noir to remove an influencial opponent of war. Contraband Smuggling: Player Assisted Customs |
Simon Louvaki
Sengokuvaa Corporation
17
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 19:17:00 -
[67] - Quote
Our nations have done terrible things to each other, and in fact the actions by Noir undoubtedly fanned the flames of hatred amoungst my brothers and sisters. Caldari Prime's liberation was just another mark in the long tug of a war between our people and the Gallente. It's about time we start recognizing that there is no single right in this war other than in our own justifications.
"Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu." |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
1161
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 19:22:00 -
[68] - Quote
Information I am receiving says that the Caldari currently hold 8 systems, starting to make a push back.
Goodness, this is exciting! |
Evi Polevhia
N.E.R.O. Inc.
17
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Posted - 2013.01.17 05:05:00 -
[69] - Quote
Militia. Like watching paint dry.
Except it's not paint, but rather the blood of a million needless deaths. |
Eric 'Swiftmind' Siraron
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.01.18 18:49:00 -
[70] - Quote
I am ecstatic to hear of the federal victory! My gratitude and respect goes out to all those who fought for our great federation, helping protect and spread freedom for all! --áEric 'Swiftmind' Siraron A young idealist student in a crazed universe. |
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Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
1201
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Posted - 2013.01.18 18:50:00 -
[71] - Quote
Eric 'Swiftmind' Siraron wrote:I am ecstatic to hear of the federal victory! My gratitude and respect goes out to all those who fought for our great federation, helping protect and spread freedom for all!
You're a tad bit late to the "party". |
Pieter Tuulinen
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
248
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Posted - 2013.01.18 19:14:00 -
[72] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Eric 'Swiftmind' Siraron wrote:I am ecstatic to hear of the federal victory! My gratitude and respect goes out to all those who fought for our great federation, helping protect and spread freedom for all! You're a tad bit late to the "party".
To be fair to him, claims of the Federal victory aren't that much less warranted now than they were when all the self-congratulatory press releases hit this channel. |
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