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Hidden Snake
Genco Fatal Ascension
245
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Posted - 2013.01.18 09:28:00 -
[91] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Hidden Snake wrote:u haven't read my post ... this will not even reduce farming by a bit .... if you chase away farmer from plex he usually does not return. He just goes to other distant system.... It will reduce it, simply because the profits from it will plummet. Farming works because defender (PvP'er) does not want to waste time babysitting timers, especially with extra time on them so the farmer can have several 'active' plexes to work with and just warp around with the only time lost being the time it takes to warp+accel. gate. Resetting timers would make offensive plexing something to do in blobs so make sure you don't suddenly 'lose' 15 minutes and is to me an exceedingly poor idea. Auto-run timers on the other hand lets the PvP'er penalise the farmer for running without having to stop, if he runs the time it takes him to get back is effectively lost to him. End result will be a shift towards missions again, but they 'only' affect the markets (which have been crashed for 1+ year so 'meh') and not the all important docking and/or WZC .. while not all that needs to be done to bring balance to the risk/reward of FW it would be a solid step in the right direction. PS: And yes, farmer can just pull stakes and go far, far away .. but as control stabilizes, people spread out and that ninja wannabe gets a brand new group of followers --> missions.
backwater systems .... no change to farming .... Based on CCPs conflict of interests I propose all who protest agains CCP Fozzie behaviour ad this to your sig.-á HIGH FIVE is LOW FIVE CCP.-á |
dexington
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
541
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 10:23:00 -
[92] - Quote
If you have chased of the attacker, why don't you not just run down the timer?
Merdaneth wrote:1. The timer is immediately reset to its neutral state if an opposing side is alone in the plex If you are attacking, and you invested 13 minutes into a 15 minute timer, and you are run off, then you the timer resets and when you return, you'll again need 15 minutes to capture the plex. This way someone chasing off a farmer has actually gained 13 minutes time for his faction, for a 1 minute investment (the warp to the plex). He can chose to stay and invest 15 minutes of his time to run the timer all the way down and take the plex for his side, or he can move on chasing others out of plexes: you've thrown the attacker off the wall.
This means that a medium/large gang can defend every plex is a large number of systems, by forcing the attackers to warp out resetting the timer and moving on.
GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥ |
Hidden Snake
Genco Fatal Ascension
245
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Posted - 2013.01.18 11:50:00 -
[93] - Quote
dexington wrote:If you have chased of the attacker, why don't you not just run down the timer? Merdaneth wrote:1. The timer is immediately reset to its neutral state if an opposing side is alone in the plex If you are attacking, and you invested 13 minutes into a 15 minute timer, and you are run off, then you the timer resets and when you return, you'll again need 15 minutes to capture the plex. This way someone chasing off a farmer has actually gained 13 minutes time for his faction, for a 1 minute investment (the warp to the plex). He can chose to stay and invest 15 minutes of his time to run the timer all the way down and take the plex for his side, or he can move on chasing others out of plexes: you've thrown the attacker off the wall. This means that a medium/large gang can defend every plex is a large number of systems, by forcing the attackers to warp out resetting the timer and moving on.
well nanoatron is faster then most of the crap flying around now ... or nanoslasher ... so he will just burn out and back .... and also cloaky farmers will cause more problems. CCP is not solving rootcause just patching the hole and making new holes. Based on CCPs conflict of interests I propose all who protest agains CCP Fozzie behaviour ad this to your sig.-á HIGH FIVE is LOW FIVE CCP.-á |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
33
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Posted - 2013.01.18 14:39:00 -
[94] - Quote
If ccp did 2 things plexing would be an awesome pvp game and there would be no more farming:
1) If you warp off when an enemy (or neutal?) is on your grid or on grid with your accell gate then the timer goes 3 minutes in your enemies favor. Not just to zero. So If you are plexing a minor for 1 minute and get chased off your enemy now only has 8 minutes to close the plex. If you leave a plex with no enemies around then the timer stays where it is at. (we don't want to punish people for leaving a plex to fight in another nearby plex) Perhaps we could even say if your ship blows up in the plex and you warp out in your pod you still don't lose the 3 minutes. Again encouraging people to stay and fight.
2) Notify us when plexes are entered and left. Just when where and plextype so we can go fight them. They are supposedly our military complexes ffs. How can the militias not know when they are attacked?
Its really that simple. If a militia is immediately notified and still can't cover the distance in 3 minutes to chase out rabbits (and thereby make farming impossible) then they likely need to spread out their blob. |
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
160
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Posted - 2013.01.18 14:41:00 -
[95] - Quote
ground ctrl wrote:If ccp did 2 things plexing would be an awesome pvp game and there would be no more farming:
1) If you warp off when an enemy (or neutal?) is on your grid or on grid with your accell gate then the timer goes 3 minutes in your enemies favor. Not just to zero. So If you are plexing a minor for 1 minute and get chased off your enemy now only has 8 minutes to close the plex. If you leave a plex with no enemies around then the timer stays where it is at. (we don't want to punish people for leaving a plex to fight in another nearby plex) Perhaps we could even say if your ship blows up in the plex and you warp out in your pod you still don't lose the 3 minutes. Again encouraging people to stay and fight.
2) Notify us when plexes are entered and left. Just when where and plextype so we can go fight them. They are supposedly our military complexes ffs. How can the militias not know when they are attacked?
Its really that simple. If a militia is immediately notified and still can't cover the distance in 3 minutes to chase out rabbits (and thereby make farming impossible) then they likely need to spread out their blob.
1) I will close large plexes in a minute.
2) We will make you receive so many notifications, you will get 0 information. |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
33
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Posted - 2013.01.18 14:48:00 -
[96] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote: 1) I will close large plexes in a minute.
2) We will make you receive so many notifications, you will get 0 information.
1) Good point. The three minutes couldn't be repeating. it could alternate though. Perhaps one time its three minutes then it just rolls back to zero if you warp off when an enemy is on grid.
2) Not so. There are not that many plexes open. But if that became the problem then we could ask for a filter such that we see only plex activity within x jumps. |
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
162
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Posted - 2013.01.18 14:58:00 -
[97] - Quote
ground ctrl wrote:Cynthia Nezmor wrote: 1) I will close large plexes in a minute.
2) We will make you receive so many notifications, you will get 0 information.
1) Good point. The three minutes couldn't be repeating. it could alternate though. Perhaps one time its three minutes then it just rolls back to zero if you warp off when an enemy is on grid. 2) Not so. There are not that many plexes open. But if that became the problem then we could ask for a filter such that we see only plex activity within x jumps.
What you fail to see is that farming is not encouraged by game mechanics. It is encourage by you, and people like you who would rather spend their "precious" time on posting, than fighting for their chosen militia. And people like meditril, or whatever, the lead shitposter of triad. His time is so valuable, farming isk AND having pvp fights is out of question. Farming for 15 minutes, fighting for 45, logging off is out of question. Chatting on TS for 2 hours while blobbing around, scaring away 99% of targets is perfectly acceptable.
In all 4 militias: less than 150 systems, more than 150 pilots 90% of the time. One pilot can defend multiple systems, theoretically there should be almost no farming. Do you need to fix mechanics or fix people? |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
33
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Posted - 2013.01.18 15:11:00 -
[98] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:ground ctrl wrote:Cynthia Nezmor wrote: 1) I will close large plexes in a minute.
2) We will make you receive so many notifications, you will get 0 information.
1) Good point. The three minutes couldn't be repeating. it could alternate though. Perhaps one time its three minutes then it just rolls back to zero if you warp off when an enemy is on grid. 2) Not so. There are not that many plexes open. But if that became the problem then we could ask for a filter such that we see only plex activity within x jumps. What you fail to see is that farming is not encouraged by game mechanics. It is encourage by you, and people like you who would rather spend their "precious" time on posting, than fighting for their chosen militia. And people like meditril, or whatever, the lead shitposter of triad. His time is so valuable, farming isk AND having pvp fights is out of question. Farming for 15 minutes, fighting for 45, logging off is out of question. Chatting on TS for 2 hours while blobbing around, scaring away 99% of targets is perfectly acceptable. In all 4 militias: less than 150 systems, more than 150 pilots 90% of the time. One pilot can defend multiple systems, theoretically there should be almost no farming. Do you need to fix mechanics or fix people?
Actually what you and sasawong do is encouraged by the mechanics. Multibox alts everywhere and if you get chased out then just hide in another system and keep running plexes. You are doing it right under the current mechanics but that does not sound fun to many. That is why - as you correctly point out - not many people care to do this activity.
You can keep telling everyone do this activity but if they don't think its fun they wont. People would rather pvp or even just talk to friends on comms.
But anyway. Thanks for your first post where you actually address issues with what I propose. I think the issues you raise were adequately addressed. What do you think? |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
485
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Posted - 2013.01.18 15:13:00 -
[99] - Quote
ground ctrl wrote:...Its really that simple. If a militia is immediately notified and still can't cover the distance in 3 minutes to chase out rabbits (and thereby make farming impossible) then they likely need to spread out their blob. Cearain tried convincing me with the exact same thing and it is still erroneous to say the least. Chasing rabbits is all well and good, but without a shotgun and/or snares the chase is all you will ever get until you collapse from exhaustion and starvation.
A notification system does not solve the problem, all it does is give the hunter a mountainbike so he doesn't deflate as quickly and saves him some time .. the farming issue itself will remain. It is needed for those reason, but don't think it will be the magic bullet.
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:...In all 4 militias: less than 150 systems, more than 150 pilots 90% of the time. One pilot can defend multiple systems, theoretically there should be almost no farming. Do you need to fix mechanics or fix people? And when 125 of the 150 people are in actuality farming the snot out of it you are left with a couple of dusin people to Benny Hill them around .. besides, it is easier to sort mechanics than people .. we've been trying the latter for millennia and we are all still twats when all is said and done.
Chasing farmers is loosing proposition as long as they are not penalized for running .. Auto-run timers and appropriate NPC's .. push the bastards into the missions where they can not rock the boat. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
943
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 17:16:00 -
[100] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote: Chasing farmers is loosing proposition as long as they are not penalized for running .. Auto-run timers and appropriate NPC's .. .
Yup.
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kraiklyn Asatru
T.R.I.A.D
190
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 17:20:00 -
[101] - Quote
@Veshta ground control is cearain.
@ Cynthia, I play for my amusement. Same goes for most TRIAD players. That's why we don't have 400 or more kills a month, and why we fly together with friends and derp about. instead of being online the entire day and using multiple alts to plex. Come after Eszur and we won't play nice. We are willing to help the rest of the militia as long as we enjoy it. I know you hate us and all but I can't bring myself to care. Keep in mind that you are abnormal and I don't think you can be fixed.
Ps> I now I am too soft and nice for eve. whatever.
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marketjacker
Mafia Redux
46
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 17:30:00 -
[102] - Quote
Hidden Snake wrote:dexington wrote:If you have chased of the attacker, why don't you not just run down the timer? Merdaneth wrote:1. The timer is immediately reset to its neutral state if an opposing side is alone in the plex If you are attacking, and you invested 13 minutes into a 15 minute timer, and you are run off, then you the timer resets and when you return, you'll again need 15 minutes to capture the plex. This way someone chasing off a farmer has actually gained 13 minutes time for his faction, for a 1 minute investment (the warp to the plex). He can chose to stay and invest 15 minutes of his time to run the timer all the way down and take the plex for his side, or he can move on chasing others out of plexes: you've thrown the attacker off the wall. This means that a medium/large gang can defend every plex is a large number of systems, by forcing the attackers to warp out resetting the timer and moving on. well nanoatron is faster then most of the crap flying around now ... or nanoslasher ... so he will just burn out and back .... and also cloaky farmers will cause more problems. CCP is not solving rootcause just patching the hole and making new holes. And conservating the actual state of the battlefield, because offensive plexing will become much more tougher in populated systems (there will be no tactics of ships sitting in more plexes and comming for fight etc. - just blob or nothing).
It's ironic that you think CCP forces you to do the blob or nothing tactic, it's the loss averse nerds like yourself that encourage that more than anything.
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marketjacker
Mafia Redux
46
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Posted - 2013.01.18 17:34:00 -
[103] - Quote
Look another thread full of brilliant ideas and great topics. Oh wait it's another **** flinging thread about a game mechanic that ends up boiling down to a handful of people that will NEVER stop playing the game the same way no mattter how much it really changes. Shut down FW for good, the war was over once anyone interesting left years ago. |
Dan Carter Murray
375
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 00:01:00 -
[104] - Quote
ground ctrl wrote:Dan Carter Murray wrote:I just want to say to the morons who put alts into opposing militia (Amarr putting alts in FDU or TLF) that my dplexing alt who is Amarr has made me 8 bil isk to date since they made LP changes for dplexing. This isk is from dplexing both high and low contested systems.
Oh noes! I can't make 16 bil. 8 bil isk is fine though. probably 2 bil of that was @ tier 1.
quit crying about the mechanics and put your alt back into Amarr so it can be awoxed. I mean...put it back into Amarr to dplex so your main gets awoxed for being a traitor...I mean just quit crying and your main back into Amarr.
Again, the formula for FW is:
enter plex
enemy came to fight? no - you made isk yes - you got pvp did you win? no - you got pvp yes - you got isk and pvp
stfu I am glad you enjoy spending hours of your life multiboxing alts deplexing systems for isk. That does not sound fun to me. I would prefer to actually get pvp on my main that have some context in the war at large. And don't assume that alts in other militias are doing plexing.
I am pvping on my main. and i wouldn't call it multiboxing. once i hear the shield alarm i alt tab and move alt to new plex to dplex.
but no i don't pvp on my main THIS IS GOLD FLEET BROTHER. WE DON'T NEED NO ******* THRASHERS/SFIs/CANES. @DanCarterMurray |
Kazim Scumling
Judge Enterprises
13
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Posted - 2013.01.19 01:23:00 -
[105] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:After all 4 militias could do the same thing, it was perfectly balanced.
IMO Balance should not be the only concern on a game design. All the games I played which had some kind of faction PvP, had some systems which are against the snowball effect for the winning side. I never seen that "Faction Pride" was enough for a loosing faction to get back from ruins to recover without any kind of game mechanic encouraging them. Without such mechanics war generally sticks into a state that people choose/switch sides depending on if they want to be underdog or winner. After all it's fairly easy to switch sides or even better get the best of both sides like many do right now.
I can say that FW we have now, is more attractive, lucrative and full of action compared to what it was. And I definitely can say it's an improvement, as it encourages people to leave high-sec, to get involved in a bit more "sandbox" side of EVE. In that sense I'm glad.
However it's far from being complete. And the attitude CSM and CCP claiming it's close to be complete, is a mistake. It would be pretty surprising if we see Amarr or Caldari pushing back to get the upperhand on following years (not months but years) with the current rule-set. I hope I'm wrong on that matter as otherwise faction sovereignty would be a very dull part of this game.
Anyways my corp leaving FW next downtime and moving to 0.0 and I want to say "Amarr Victor!" for one last time :) Thanks to both friends and enemies as last 2 months were full of fun and PvP.
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Wiedzmin 3
Affinity Fan Club
0
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Posted - 2013.01.20 11:27:00 -
[106] - Quote
Kazim Scumling wrote:Cynthia Nezmor wrote:After all 4 militias could do the same thing, it was perfectly balanced. IMO Balance should not be the only concern on a game design. All the games I played which had some kind of faction PvP, had some systems which are against the snowball effect for the winning side . I never seen that "Faction Pride" was enough for a loosing faction to get back from ruins to recover without any kind of game mechanic encouraging them.
Why not? It is enough for nullbears. And what else is in this game? Farming ISK? Farming killmails? With enough experience the latter is actually less fun. |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
33
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Posted - 2013.01.20 18:49:00 -
[107] - Quote
Wiedzmin 3 wrote:Kazim Scumling wrote:Cynthia Nezmor wrote:After all 4 militias could do the same thing, it was perfectly balanced. IMO Balance should not be the only concern on a game design. All the games I played which had some kind of faction PvP, had some systems which are against the snowball effect for the winning side . I never seen that "Faction Pride" was enough for a loosing faction to get back from ruins to recover without any kind of game mechanic encouraging them. Why not? It is enough for nullbears. And what else is in this game? Farming ISK? Farming killmails? With enough experience the latter is actually less fun.
Faction pride does not really keep any null bears frighting for the losing side. In fact nothing keeps people fighting for the losing side. That is why losing sides stop existing and are replaced with new alliances. Unless ccp plans on making new races every time one loses I don't think that will work well in fw.
Plus I don't think Null sec is a very good model. Ever since BOB was taken out and the mittani has been head of goons Null sec couldn't be more dull. Since BOB left the basic premise of null sec is "lets be friends and carebear together." |
Kazim Scumling
Judge Enterprises
14
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Posted - 2013.01.20 20:52:00 -
[108] - Quote
Btw it seems Amarr is T3 and Minmatar is T2 now. I think they waited for me to leave the FW ;p If things turn out like this my proposition of "Faction Pride is not enough" will go to the sewers :D Amarr Victor!!!! |
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