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Dark Gogg
Diablo Lobos
1
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Posted - 2013.01.15 19:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
This has probably been said earlier, but I will say it again. The hulk needs a boost. it doesnt give the better yield compared to all the other barges that it deserves. Also the fact that you cannot run 2 cycles with T1 strip miners without the ore hold clogging up ure whole opreration. For all us relaxed miners out there it is very annoying.
The skiff have a nice EHP
The Mackinaw have a big orehold that can take 35 ice cubes divide by 2 and you have 16.5 cycles of icemining without anything stopping you. The Mackinaw have 4200 m3 mining yield per cycle. The ore hold are 35000 m3 at exhumer lvl 5.
The Hulk have yield at roughly 4800 m3 with T1 strip miners and have an ore hold at 8500 m3.
The skiff is for merx mining and always have. thats ok. Then CCP removed the dedication for ice mining for the mackinaw and gave all of them ore holds which boosted the mackinaw and nerfed the hulk.
I dont have a problem with the Hulks mining yield. if its bigger, the belts would just empty out and the ore war would be upon us. But please consider having the Hulk's ore hold boosted. it is bigger and require more skills to use.
I saw a post where Ore hold mods/rigs should be implemented is also a great idea. that could fix some of the problems. But as it stands, the hulk is bigger than the mack, and therefor should have a better yield and a bigger ore hold.
When people use the Retriever instead of the hulk, because the hulk is to expensive and too risky to use towards the result. and the richer ppl use the mackinaw cuz its easier to use. the Hulk will not be used anymore and the problem still persist with low usage of mining ships.
The orca is also so slow that it should have a much bigger ore hold. thats whats its for. and there are no major need for a a big cargohold. the Orca is also designed as the rorqual and should be able to stand in the field and give bonuses for a longer time. And the only way to do that is to boost its capability to store the ore.
Please r |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
593
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Posted - 2013.01.15 19:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
+1
If CCP thinks mineral faucet is too big and needs to be decreased, it should do so through legitimate means like flat out decreasing stripper yield, not indirectly through broken mechanics like this, ruining gameplay in the process. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
36
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Posted - 2013.01.15 20:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
I dont agree...
Skiff... used fordangerous operations, amacing tank
Mackinaw... used for solo mining, huge orehold
Hulk... used for fleet mining, best m3 out put
you want best ore hold get a Mack |
Michael Loney
Skullspace Industries
74
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Posted - 2013.01.15 20:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Quote:I dont agree...
Skiff... used fordangerous operations, amacing tank
Mackinaw... used for solo mining, huge orehold
Hulk... used for fleet mining, best m3 out put
you want best ore hold get a Mack
100% agree, Hulk is for fleet ops, not for solo work unless you want to jet can and haul... oh wait, that's still not solo...
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
593
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Posted - 2013.01.15 20:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Fey Ivory wrote:I dont agree...
Skiff... used fordangerous operations, amacing tank
Mackinaw... used for solo mining, huge orehold
Hulk... used for fleet mining, best m3 out put
you want best ore hold get a Mack
Wrong. Hold large enough to hold only one cycle is broken. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
418
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Posted - 2013.01.15 20:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Fey Ivory wrote:I dont agree...
Skiff... used fordangerous operations, amacing tank
Mackinaw... used for solo mining, huge orehold
Hulk... used for fleet mining, best m3 out put
you want best ore hold get a Mack Wrong. Hold large enough to hold only one cycle is broken. It needs to be at least 2, to make flipping viable without macro. How many hulks are you trying to run? The hulks hold is fine as is and it works great for fleet tops. Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
418
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Posted - 2013.01.15 20:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:+1
If CCP thinks mineral faucet is too big and needs to be decreased, it should do so through legitimate means like flat out decreasing stripper yield, not indirectly through broken mechanics like this, ruining gameplay in the process. This makes NO sense what so ever, if they thought the mineral faucet was too high then why would they have increased the mining yield on the the skiff procurer mackinaw and retriever. Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
593
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Posted - 2013.01.15 20:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:sabre906 wrote:Fey Ivory wrote:I dont agree...
Skiff... used fordangerous operations, amacing tank
Mackinaw... used for solo mining, huge orehold
Hulk... used for fleet mining, best m3 out put
you want best ore hold get a Mack Wrong. Hold large enough to hold only one cycle is broken. It needs to be at least 2, to make flipping viable without macro. How many hulks are you trying to run? The hulks hold is fine as is and it works great for fleet tops.
As great as gun that holds one round of ammo. It needs to hold 2, not 1, to be workable. Bare minimum. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
418
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Posted - 2013.01.15 20:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:sabre906 wrote:Fey Ivory wrote:I dont agree...
Skiff... used fordangerous operations, amacing tank
Mackinaw... used for solo mining, huge orehold
Hulk... used for fleet mining, best m3 out put
you want best ore hold get a Mack Wrong. Hold large enough to hold only one cycle is broken. It needs to be at least 2, to make flipping viable without macro. How many hulks are you trying to run? The hulks hold is fine as is and it works great for fleet tops. As great as gun that holds one round of ammo. It needs to hold 2, not 1, to be workable. Bare minimum. Mine work fine as is, so I still fail to see the problem. Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
595
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Posted - 2013.01.15 20:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:sabre906 wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:sabre906 wrote:Fey Ivory wrote:I dont agree...
Skiff... used fordangerous operations, amacing tank
Mackinaw... used for solo mining, huge orehold
Hulk... used for fleet mining, best m3 out put
you want best ore hold get a Mack Wrong. Hold large enough to hold only one cycle is broken. It needs to be at least 2, to make flipping viable without macro. How many hulks are you trying to run? The hulks hold is fine as is and it works great for fleet tops. As great as gun that holds one round of ammo. It needs to hold 2, not 1, to be workable. Bare minimum. Mine work fine as is, so I still fail to see the problem.
Good for you. Now leave and find your problem somewhere else. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
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Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
36
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Posted - 2013.01.15 20:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
Alright, lets keep it civil, thanks... oki im rather new, so maybe i dont understand... you get 4.8k m3 from your three stripminers... new cycle starts, and you got three mins, to drop a can, and move your ore into the can, what is it that dont work ? |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
419
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Posted - 2013.01.15 20:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote: How many hulks are you trying to run?
Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
Dark Gogg
Diablo Lobos
2
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Posted - 2013.01.15 21:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
Prior to the updates of the barges, the hulk could run 2 cycles of T2 strip miners with theyre correct T2 crystals. After the update they cannot hold 2 runs with T1 strip miners.
That is basicly too poor. while you are looking at other things suddenly ure strips have deactivated. And with orca bonuses, you only have 2 minutes without HW implants. And 2 minutes arent really that long. espacially if you got a hauler as well that are going back and forth full speed to keep the orca from not filling up |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
420
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Posted - 2013.01.15 21:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
If you are actually watching the game 2 minutes is plenty of time. the hulk went from a solo ship to a fleet ship, you should be able to move that much ore every 2 minutes (though more realistically 3.5~3.75) around. Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
1819
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Posted - 2013.01.15 21:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Dark Gogg wrote:But please consider having the Hulk's ore hold boosted. it is bigger and require more skills to use. Err... the Hulk requires the same amount of skills as all the other Exhumers. Exhumers level 1.
Dark Gogg wrote:the hulk is bigger than the mack, and therefor should have a better yield and a bigger ore hold. This was already the case before the mining barge rebalance. The Hulk was superior to every other barge out there.
CCP wanted to make all the barges viable so they would all get used. So they took away the Hulk's ability to store ore and gave it to the Mackinaw. The Hulk is still the ultimate mining barge as it has the highest mining yield, but it requires a fleet to be truly effective. The other barges cannot mine as much, but make up for it in other ways.
Dark Gogg wrote:When people use the Retriever instead of the hulk, because the hulk is to expensive and too risky to use towards the result. and the richer ppl use the mackinaw cuz its easier to use. the Hulk will not be used anymore and the problem still persist with low usage of mining ships. "Low usage" is not always the fault of the ship. The Hulk works best when it is part of a team... sadly most people (especially miners) don't like working together because "it's MY ore... mine, mine mine!! Preciousssssssss...."
Quote:The orca is also so slow that it should have a much bigger ore hold. Ummm... 50k ore hold... 40k corporate hanger space... ~30 to 50k cargo hold...
That's about 120k to 140k m3 of space for ore storage. Sure, it's not all dedicated space... but it's not like you can't store the ore in those other holds. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Mole Guy
Xoth Inc Unclaimed.
43
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Posted - 2013.01.15 21:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
have cake AND eat it too?
nawt.
if u wanna cut rock, then cut rock...use a hulk. just make sure you have someone to haul it for u.
if you wanna tank rats, tank rats...use a skiff. just doesnt hold as much.
if u wanna store ore so u dont have to haul as much, then pack it in...use a mack. just dont expect to cut as much as a hulk or tank as much as a skiff. plus u have the option to cut 2 different ores where as my skiff only cuts 1 at a time.
i think they rawk just as they are...but then again, i still remember cutting rock in a thorax on my main and a vexor on my alt. alt-tabbing every 45 seconds because the cargo on the rax was full. only being able to run 3 miner II's on 1/2 of the cycle and then the other 2 on the 2nd 1/2.
if u were around in the old days, you will be happy to receive the bone ccp threw us with the barges and exhumers. and holding 35k at once? i can deal with 400m3 less to hold 35k ore.
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Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
282
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Posted - 2013.01.15 22:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
I agree that there should be at least two cycles of T2 Strip w/ Crystal yield space in the ore hold on the Hulk. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Heavy Industries Sick N' Twisted
217
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Posted - 2013.01.15 22:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Theres a pretty simple way to solve this issue.
Quote:Skiffs are for mining in hostile area's, that's why they have such a huge buffer and gtfo potential. As a sacrifice, they pull in 9% less than a Mackinaw. They can also hold just under half the amount of ore that a Mackinaw can in their ore bay.
Mackinaws are for solo mining, that's why they have such a huge ore bay. They also have a pretty solid buffer tank.
Hulks are for mining in fleets, that's why they have such a massive yield, 20% above that of a Mackinaw. As a sacrifice, have a smaller ore bay and a weaker tank.
So, if your unable to use a hulk becauseyour running so many accounts that 2 minutes, (which is the very lowest amount of time a Strip Miner can cycle,) is not long enough for you to tab through all the accounts and dump the ore in an Orca, then you have two options: 1 - Take the 20% yield hit and switch down to Mackinaws as they can hold enough for for at least 12 minutes. You may actually find that this will allow a greater yield overal, given how much of a mirco-management issue you obviously have with all those accounts on the go at once. 2 - Drop some accounts. It would be so much easier for you to fleet mine with less of a "macro-farm" op going on. Please note there is not a 3rd option labeled 'Whinge and moan like a little girl who droped her ice cream'.
All these ships can pull in Mercoxit, Ice and Ore perfectly well in their own niche ways. They have their roles. No one ship is the perfect ship for everything. If you haven't noticed, these shiney new Exhumers and Barges no longer need all those cargo expanders and rigs to be remotely useful. That means that your investment in the hull will yield more per cycle, (because you can now fit more Mining Laser Upgrades,) and be so much more survivable, (especially with the extender rigs and DC2.) And yet, you ingrates have the audacity to complain because the buff to your ship of choice fell short of making it all singing and all dancing with bells on. Well boo hoo.
If you decide you no longer wish to use your armada of hulks, I am sure someone from the New Order would happily help you out with a smart-phoon. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
325
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 23:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
The Hulk is fine, but the AFK mining barges are not fine and need a nerf (ore cargo hold reduced). If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Goldensaver
Marsuud And Sons Industries
122
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Posted - 2013.01.15 23:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
This thread again?
Hulk is fine, if you wanna solo or reduce input then fly a mack. If you wanna make max ISK/hour then fly the hulk.
CCP finally made it so the Hulk isn't the "I win" ship for miners. Now you get to choose according to what you are trying to achieve. |
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DJWiggles
Eve Radio Corporation
34
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Posted - 2013.01.15 23:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
Fey Ivory wrote:I dont agree...
Skiff... used fordangerous operations, amacing tank
Mackinaw... used for solo mining, huge orehold
Hulk... used for fleet mining, best m3 out put
you want best ore hold get a Mack
QFGT ... Live on Eve Radio Wednesdays 20:00 GMT with me & friends blabbering on about Eve and stuff-á Follow me on twitter http://twitter.com/WigglesGRN-á
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
250
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 23:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
I agree that the hulk could use a little love. It's somewhat underwhelming. But it needs neither yield nor ore hold. What it needs is to be a little more tankier. Then it would be fine. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1053
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 23:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
@ OP. I'm surprised you aren't asking for that refund for your T2 cargo rigs while you are at it. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
422
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 23:47:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:I agree that the hulk could use a little love. It's somewhat underwhelming. But it needs neither yield nor ore hold. What it needs is to be a little more tankier. Then it would be fine. 15k EHP with max yield not enough? Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
WilliamMays
Stuffs Inc.
52
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 23:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
The hulk is perfect where it is; the ore hold only fits one cycle because you're supposed to be dumping that ore to a hauler toon, aka another FLEET member. However the hulk is the only one of the three types that is so clearly defined in it's role.
I do believe the other barges/exhumers need a little tweaking. Mackinaw tanks seem a hair high. Skiffs can also hold multiple cycles of ore.
If the ships are supposed to fill a role, put them in that role; if they are supposed to have significant overlap, all three should overlap in some ways. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
251
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 00:17:00 -
[26] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Mara Pahrdi wrote:I agree that the hulk could use a little love. It's somewhat underwhelming. But it needs neither yield nor ore hold. What it needs is to be a little more tankier. Then it would be fine. 15k EHP with max yield not enough? Don't know about 15k and max yield.
My hulks tend to be about 36k unbuffed and just above 40k with orca buffs. My Macks are >41k and >46.5k. All uniform EFT.
Compared to the huge "advantages" of the mack, the hulk feels just somewhat underwhelming overall, even in fleet.
Nerfing the mack will not go well with the afk crowd. And we definitely don't need more yield in my opinion. So if you'd give my hulks some more tank I'd feel somewhat compensated . Remove insurance. |
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
49
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 00:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Dark Gogg wrote:But please consider having the Hulk's ore hold boosted. it is bigger and require more skills to use. Err... the Hulk requires the same amount of skills as all the other Exhumers. Exhumers level 1. Dark Gogg wrote:the hulk is bigger than the mack, and therefor should have a better yield and a bigger ore hold. This was already the case before the mining barge rebalance. The Hulk was superior to every other barge out there. CCP wanted to make all the barges viable so they would all get used. So they took away the Hulk's ability to store ore and gave it to the Mackinaw. The Hulk is still the ultimate mining barge as it has the highest mining yield, but it requires a fleet to be truly effective. The other barges cannot mine as much, but make up for it in other ways. Dark Gogg wrote:When people use the Retriever instead of the hulk, because the hulk is to expensive and too risky to use towards the result. and the richer ppl use the mackinaw cuz its easier to use. the Hulk will not be used anymore and the problem still persist with low usage of mining ships. "Low usage" is not always the fault of the ship. The Hulk works best when it is part of a team... sadly most people (especially miners) don't like working together because "it's MY ore... mine, mine mine!! Preciousssssssss...." Quote:The orca is also so slow that it should have a much bigger ore hold. Ummm... 50k ore hold... 40k corporate hanger space... ~30 to 50k cargo hold... That's about 120k to 140k m3 of space for ore storage. Sure, it's not all dedicated space... but it's not like you can't store the ore in those other holds.
Actually having a 70 mil SP indy alt, Its not because we want my ore my ore. It's because when we join a player corp griefers join the corp just so they can gank without concord interfering. So we stay in NPC corps, where our ships are reletively safe and we can mine in peace.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
1821
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 01:22:00 -
[28] - Quote
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:Actually having a 70 mil SP indy alt, Its not because we want my ore my ore. It's because when we join a player corp griefers join the corp just so they can gank without concord interfering. So we stay in NPC corps, where our ships are reletively safe and we can mine in peace. That wasn't what I was trying to get at.
Most of the miners I've met simply don't want to deal with the hassle of logistics despite the benefits. They just want to sit and mine. That's why you see more Retrievers and Mackinaws these days. It's just easier to use.
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:And the orca has around 225,000 total M3 of space when fully upgraded for cargo. Although Honestly I wuld like to see it given more space for "ore". I wouldn't have too much of an issue with this. But bear in mind that people will still complain because any cargohold still has a finite amount of space and requires some kind of logistics effort at some point.
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:In fleets of more then 5 - 10 hulks I have to run to the station to empty the orca every 5-15 minuets, even fully upgraded. And it takes about 3 minuets to warp to the station and 3 minuets to warp back, sometimes 5-6 minuets there and 5-6 back depending on the system. So it is a constant scoop Dock empty, Run back Scoop Dock empty. Because it does not have enough space in the ore hold to support even 1 squad of hulks, let a lone larger fleets. So get someone (preferably a newbie) in an industrial ship to ferry ore back and forth from the Orca to the station? That way the Orca can stay to provide its bonuses and the barges don't need to use jetcans.
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:To be honest they should just make the Rorq Available for Use in highsec, I mean its an Industrial ship.... What is the purpose of restricting it to 0.0 and lowsec where it is rarely if ever used? I've played eve for 10 years and been all over 0.0, and I think I've seen maybe 5 in 10 years actually being used. CVA uses one so does -7-, Pandemic used one, and I've seen razors. But each of these allaince only ever have 1 Rorq it seems, and I have only ever seen 1 in lowsec. Parked at a POS. The reason the Rorqual is banned from high-sec and shall forever remain banned from high-sec is because...
- it has capital sized hp and local tank making it almost invulnerable to any attack outside of a good sized gang. - it has utility that goes above and beyond regular industrial ships. Capital remote repair bonuses make it the perfect ship for providing RR support on stations, POSs, and combat in general... and drone bonuses that give it firepower equal to some battleships. - it's a capital ship... which means it can't use gates (cynos can't be used in high-sec). - there is no need for ore compression in high-sec when there is a station in almost every single high-sec and low-sec system (which makes logistics vastly easier). Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Daichi Yamato
Swamp Bucket Swamp Bucket Empire
497
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 01:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Actually having a 70 mil SP indy alt, Its not because we want my ore my ore. It's because when we join a player corp griefers join the corp just so they can gank without concord interfering. So we stay in NPC corps, where our ships are reletively safe and we can mine in peace.
u can still fleet and work together in NPC corps, just make a common chat channel and rename it 'not so corp chat'
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote: In fleets of more then 5 - 10 hulks I have to run to the station to empty the orca every 5-15 minuets, even fully upgraded. And it takes about 3 minuets to warp to the station and 3 minuets to warp back, sometimes 5-6 minuets there and 5-6 back depending on the system. So it is a constant scoop Dock empty, Run back Scoop Dock empty. Because it does not have enough space in the ore hold to support even 1 squad of hulks, let a lone larger fleets.
an orca can warp over 450au in three minutes. systems are rarely over 100. so that was grossly exaggerated, like a lot of ur other posts. if space is an issue u can always use more than one Orca or a freighter itself since they are supposed to be able to scoop now.
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote: To be honest they should just make the Rorq Available for Use in highsec, I mean its an Industrial ship.... What is the purpose of restricting it to 0.0 and lowsec where it is rarely if ever used? I've played eve for 10 years and been all over 0.0, and I think I've seen maybe 5 in 10 years actually being used. CVA uses one so does -7-, Pandemic used one, and I've seen razors. But each of these allaince only ever have 1 Rorq it seems, and I have only ever seen 1 in lowsec. Parked at a POS.
This ship is great and it needs to see more use allow for it to be used in Highsec so it can get the love it deserves.
although its a ridiculously powerful mining support vessel, it is just a mining support vessel. so i wouldn't mind them in hi-sec. if they could be restricted so they could only be in war-deccable corps, even better! |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
423
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 02:02:00 -
[30] - Quote
Rorqual in high sec, only if the industrial core is not able to be activated as to prevent uber botting Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
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