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RoAnnon
Strategic Acquisitions Group
47
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 18:27:00 -
[31] - Quote
Something I thought would be annoyingly realistic would be akin to a game warden coming up to you while you're fishing or in a stand hunting, and asking to see your license. It'd be feasible to have a random sweep of belts in system by Concord, with a pop-up asking pilots to "show their license", something that would require player interaction of some sort, beyond just clicking a button. The higher the sec of the system, the more frequent the stops by the police.
If the Concord officer doesn't get the proper human feedback in a set amount of time, he is forced to assume the ship's AI has gone all "rogue drone" and must be destroyed.
It wouldn't eliminate botting, but would hamper them some. As boring as mining gets, the occasional "you got a license to be mining here?" popup would be more a diversion than an annoyance. |
J ThreeTears Brimstoan
The Market Monstr Accumulative
3
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 18:29:00 -
[32] - Quote
Inkarr Hashur wrote:Quantum Mass wrote:
2) A button that will appear at random on the GUI screen. (This so it can not be done by a bot prog)
You're a funny guy. A really funny guy. Or just naive.
....we're still waiting to hear how you would do it... |
Inkarr Hashur
Sine Nobilitatis R.E.P.O.
136
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 18:34:00 -
[33] - Quote
J ThreeTears Brimstoan wrote:Inkarr Hashur wrote:Quantum Mass wrote:
2) A button that will appear at random on the GUI screen. (This so it can not be done by a bot prog)
You're a funny guy. A really funny guy. Or just naive. ....we're still waiting to hear how you would do it...
That's because I wouldn't do it. |
J ThreeTears Brimstoan
The Market Monstr Accumulative
3
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 18:37:00 -
[34] - Quote
Roannon: Hmm, interesting. So you would like to see the popup/interaction be more of a location specific thing. (Happens more often in 1.0 than in 0.5) is a great point too because it would make it more difficult for botters to do so in "Relative safety" and it wouldn't annoy the PvPers in low/nullsec. Good problem solving! I give it a 7/10
Sabre: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Nikk: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Roannon: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Kusum Fawn: -7 (This person doesn't like to read BEFORE posting angriness at people) |
J ThreeTears Brimstoan
The Market Monstr Accumulative
3
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 18:41:00 -
[35] - Quote
Inkarr Hashur: Are you against stopping botters or against a pop-up? I'm interested in learning why you wouldn't do it and what exactly you mean by "It".
Sabre: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Nikk: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Roannon: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Kusum Fawn: -7 (This person doesn't like to read BEFORE posting angriness at people) |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
425
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 18:46:00 -
[36] - Quote
This is referred to as a "gotcha" mechanic that has been brought up many times in the forums.
The best answer that I can give you as to why it would not work is simple. Bot programs can easily counter this.
Bot programs are capable of responding to random npc spawns, avoid belts empty of the ores they're programmed to mine, warp out of belts when specific ships or any players in general warp in, can create bookmarks in multiple systems for belts, be set for random log off times, and even dock up if anyone comes into system.
So, it's safe to say they can deal with a "gotcha" mechanic. |
Inkarr Hashur
Sine Nobilitatis R.E.P.O.
136
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 18:49:00 -
[37] - Quote
There's no such thing as a popup that a bot can't answer. There's no action you can take in EVE that a bot can't reproduce. There's no behavior in EVE that a bot can't emulate. The only decent way to detect botters is examining the processes running on someone's machine, as any decent bot program will be able to emulate any actions of a sentient person at his keyboard. And even this gives some false positives, false positives being something thing CCP wants to do its best to avoid.
Also people simply AFK mine without botting programs. There's nothing inherently wrong with it, as it exposes them to ganking risks and mining is low-reward per time anyway. You shouldn't punish people for wanting to just afk mine.
Edit: I've seen a youtube video of a battleground in WoW filled with bots, just running around engaging in mindless and aimless combat with each other, sending out almost-sensical messages in chat, with just a single sentient player in it watching them. It was creepy stuff. Creepy in that you could almost believe they were real people. |
J ThreeTears Brimstoan
The Market Monstr Accumulative
3
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 18:55:00 -
[38] - Quote
-1 to Joe and Inkarr simply because you are stating things that we already know, you are not trying to come up with any kind of solution and neither one of you READ THE PREVIOUS POSTS, otherwise you would see that we had already moved into a different area with the discussion. Thank you for playing.
Sabre: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Nikk: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Roannon: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Kusum Fawn: -7 (This person doesn't like to read BEFORE posting angriness at people)
Joe Risalo: -1 (For not reading BEFORE posting)
Inkarr: -1 (For not reading BEFORE posting) |
Inkarr Hashur
Sine Nobilitatis R.E.P.O.
136
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 18:57:00 -
[39] - Quote
J ThreeTears Brimstoan wrote:-1 to Joe and Inkarr simply because you are stating things that we already know, you are not trying to come up with any kind of solution and neither one of you READ THE PREVIOUS POSTS, otherwise you would see that we had already moved into a different area with the discussion. Thank you for playing.
Sabre: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Nikk: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Roannon: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Kusum Fawn: -7 (This person doesn't like to read BEFORE posting angriness at people)
Joe Risalo: -1 (For not reading BEFORE posting)
Inkarr: -1 (For not reading BEFORE posting) -1 for thinking anyone actually cares about you rating people |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
426
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 19:06:00 -
[40] - Quote
J ThreeTears Brimstoan wrote:-1 to Joe and Inkarr simply because you are stating things that we already know, you are not trying to come up with any kind of solution and neither one of you READ THE PREVIOUS POSTS, otherwise you would see that we had already moved into a different area with the discussion. Thank you for playing.
Sabre: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Nikk: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Roannon: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Kusum Fawn: -7 (This person doesn't like to read BEFORE posting angriness at people)
Joe Risalo: -1 (For not reading BEFORE posting)
Inkarr: -1 (For not reading BEFORE posting)
-1 for not updating your OP.
Everyone know that when a thread goes longer than 1 page there's only 2 posts that will be read. The OP to understand the conversation of the thread, and the last post made to understand the current topic.
So, while I may not have read the entire thread before posting, it's your bad for not updating the OP, which is the only comment that matters in the mind of a new subscriber to the thread.
You want an idea thrown out there?
Sure...
Bots rely heavily on the overview to target and mark roids.
So, don't allow roids to be targetttable through any other means other than the main space window.
They would only be on overview and survey scan so that a player can box them to know which asteroid to target.
This much more difficult for a bot program to be programed for due the the propetual nature of the main screen, and other roid/ships/whatever that could be in the way. |
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J ThreeTears Brimstoan
The Market Monstr Accumulative
6
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 19:10:00 -
[41] - Quote
+1 to Inkarr and Joe for readingand adding input this time =)
I figured a forum thread here is the same as any other forum thread out there...you know...read each post until you find the best possible answer, see what kinds of things people are saying about a product or company etc. I guess I'm just old fashioned like that.
Sabre: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Nikk: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Roannon: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Kusum Fawn: -7 (This person doesn't like to read BEFORE posting angriness at people)
^^^^Updated Points^^^^ |
Alex Grison
Grison Interstellar
43
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 19:14:00 -
[42] - Quote
1) CCP monitors your computer and other heuristics to determine if you may be running botting software
2) Once you have been flagged your case will need to be reviewed by a human. At this point it will be easy for a human to tell if a bot is being used
3) If they have determined that you are indeed using botting software, They need to hit these people hard. - Freeze all of their accounts ( it will be easy to tell which accounts are logged in from the same computer / the same network ) |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
427
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 19:23:00 -
[43] - Quote
[quote=Alex Grison]1) CCP monitors your computer and other heuristics to determine if you may be running botting software
[quote]
This is invasion of privacy and thus extremely illegal.
If CCP wants to bust botters it must be done through ingame means.
They cannot bust you for buying a bot, they cannot bust you for owning a bot, and they cannot bust you for having a bot on your PC. However, if you use that bot in game and they're able to catch it in game, they can do whatever they wish. |
Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
359
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 19:26:00 -
[44] - Quote
How about something a la incursions?
Nobody mines in systems with active incursions, as far as I can tell. Stay in a belt, and some pretty strong BS ships may show up.
From time to time, have a message from concord show up, saying it has intel that a pirate fleet is mobilizing.
15 minutes later, a rather powerful rat wave spawns in the belts
Perhaps not local- but some dedicated "concord bulletin" channel for the constellation, specifying which system in the constellation will be affected.
*provided that the bots can't make sense of the intel messages* this should result in a lot of bots and AFKers getting killed by NPCs.
I would structure it in such a way that the initial spawn s mostly low DPS scramming frigs, that you should be able to tank - if you get caught AFK, you may still be able to call in some friends (hopefully you have some) to come put down the spawn
Concord "papers please" I wouldn't like so much, its not very interesting, you get concordukkened, or you push some buttons. I like the idea of NPC rat spawns that you can actually fight against much better.
If you insist on concord, perhaps you don't get concordukkened, but rather concord gives you a suspect flag, and a message appears in everyones local "illegal miner in belt X, has had his/her concord protection revoked"
Then... nerf local in lowsec, so you don't have bots that mine in low sec and just dock up when a non-blue enters the system. |
J ThreeTears Brimstoan
The Market Monstr Accumulative
6
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 19:27:00 -
[45] - Quote
Alex: +1 for looking into the matter and providing input, however, this doesn't solve the problem of CCP employees having to "Watch for Bots"
Question: Could/would it be possible/easier to just monitor Players vs chat ration in belts? (Example: 38 players in system. 29 of them mining. None of them saying anything) Perhaps as a process of elimination to find real vs bot? (Yes bots/botters will get smarter and start randomly chatting in local) This may or may not however buy some time for CCP to get ahead of the curve. Effort vs Results is what it boils down to I guess in a "Bot watch" scenario.
Sabre: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Nikk: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Roannon: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Alex: +1 (Looking into the exact terms and conditions to find helpful info)
Kusum Fawn: -7 (This person doesn't like to read BEFORE posting angriness at people)
|
J ThreeTears Brimstoan
The Market Monstr Accumulative
6
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 19:34:00 -
[46] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Alex Grison wrote:1) CCP monitors your computer and other heuristics to determine if you may be running botting software
This is invasion of privacy and thus extremely illegal. If CCP wants to bust botters it must be done through ingame means. They cannot bust you for buying a bot, they cannot bust you for owning a bot, and they cannot bust you for having a bot on your PC. However, if you use that bot in game and they're able to catch it in game, they can do whatever they wish.
That does seem like quite the invasion of privacy. Alex, could you please cite the source of that information so we could look further into it? +1 to Joe for bringing that up.
Sabre: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Nikk: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Roannon: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Alex: Pending
Joe: +1 (for bringing up a very interesting fact...we might all be playing EVE for free if CCP is doing something illegal in that matter)
Kusum Fawn: -7 (This person doesn't like to read BEFORE posting angriness at people)
|
J ThreeTears Brimstoan
The Market Monstr Accumulative
6
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 19:43:00 -
[47] - Quote
Verity: +1 for the input +1 for reading in advance.
I think that idea goes fairly hand in hand with the idea of concord asking for a 'License' and would go well together.
My personal thoughts, I would like to see both a "Miner/Mining vessel/Mining drone/Mining structure (Previously mentioned) that you have to pvp/pve protect" mixed with the capability to go off and mine for a few hours. I do mine at the keyboard every once in a while. I also realize that this probably wont be possible to have both.
What are the collective thoughts on this matter?
Sabre: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Nikk: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Roannon: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Verity: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Joe: +1 (for bringing up a very interesting fact...we might all be playing EVE for free if CCP is doing something illegal in that matter)
Alex: Pending
Kusum Fawn: -7 (This person doesn't like to read BEFORE posting angriness at people) |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
282
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 20:32:00 -
[48] - Quote
Hmmm... lot to respond to again.
7. so your issue is characters buying and reselling plex in game bought with mined ore/minerals obtained through botting? that still doesnt have any effect on ccp revenue streams (well actually it does as the bots accounts themselves have to use plex to stay active so its a +1 paying account per active bot) Oh, you meant they are selling plex for real cash, which is a violation of eula and doesnt have any ingame function to support it. again something like that happens through oog sites and is not a function of the botter itself. nor does it have much influence on the game play.
Of course there are also the not bots that clear hisec belts, and many systems that are not cleared in hisec simply because there arent enough miners. try looking outside the busiest of caldari systems and you will see the rest of the eve world, which is not full of bots. Yulai, as an example is a 1.0 system, home of concord and one of, if not the most secure system in EVE. is not cleared out every day. this is not because there is a bot patrol by CCP but because it is not a caldari system. try exploring a bit.
8. Pointing out that a crap company like Jagex has made a better effort at weeding out bots still doesnt address the issues of difference in game style or complexity. nor does it even offer proof that it is effective in its efforts. CCP is trying to stop bots, perhaps not the way that you want them to but they are trying. It has seemed in the past that the were taking a very slow approach to stopping it and to some it still seems lackluster, but since every account is paid for one way or another, stopping the back end of rmt is more important for the company. once a character has virtual assets, its still virtual and can be taken away without any issues. If you arent saying that Jagex antibot measures work then what good is it using them as an example? CCP does do a lot to fight bots, they have a team in fact there to fight bots.....
9. The team is there to make up ways to stop bots. i sort of figured you would read that right.
10. still the team programs and thinks of ways to stop rmt and botting behaviors. you want to free them up to ... think of more ways to fight the new bots that will appear when the old bots dont work anymore?
11. was your complaint that mining does not bring in enough isk? or that the pay was too high? thats what that was there for. I am unsure if you think that ore is too cheap or too expensive. Increasing the isk value of the ore does not help the introduction of minerals to the market. i think you are missing that raising the price of minerals on the market (to pay miners better) also raises the costs of modules and ships that are used by everyone else. More miners lowers the costs of minerals. lowering the costs of ships but also the pay of miners. you know this right?
12. think army, hurry up and wait. move here. jump in, shoot, do stuff wait, run away. this can take many many hours. actual combat may be over in 15 minutes, or may be stretched out over many systems as you fight a retreat or chase an enemy. worst thing i can think of is a focus stealing popup right as you get that cap cyno, or the order to bridge (and the lag that that brings)
13. You seem to think that the added layer of antibot spam that you throw at people will make more people want to mine? why is this? since the drone regions change are there more miners? fewer? about the same? trit has gone from 2 isk p/u to 11, has that introduced a new wave of mining going on? (or rather was it the changes to mining barges?) even with all these new mining buffs, are there significantly more miners? or does it seem the same as last year?
I would argue its the same. just fewer goon alts ganking people in ice belts.
at what price point would you imagine trit to be worth mining? and how does antibot spam make more people want to mine when missions, non afk missions, make more isk then comparable time mining with no spam involved?
Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
|
J ThreeTears Brimstoan
The Market Monstr Accumulative
6
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 21:11:00 -
[49] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:Hmmm... lot to respond to again.
7. so your issue is characters buying and reselling plex in game bought with mined ore/minerals obtained through botting? that still doesnt have any effect on ccp revenue streams (well actually it does as the bots accounts themselves have to use plex to stay active so its a +1 paying account per active bot) Oh, you meant they are selling plex for real cash, which is a violation of eula and doesnt have any ingame function to support it. again something like that happens through oog sites and is not a function of the botter itself. nor does it have much influence on the game play.
Of course there are also the not bots that clear hisec belts, and many systems that are not cleared in hisec simply because there arent enough miners. try looking outside the busiest of caldari systems and you will see the rest of the eve world, which is not full of bots. Yulai, as an example is a 1.0 system, home of concord and one of, if not the most secure system in EVE. is not cleared out every day. this is not because there is a bot patrol by CCP but because it is not a caldari system. try exploring a bit.
8. Pointing out that a crap company like Jagex has made a better effort at weeding out bots still doesnt address the issues of difference in game style or complexity. nor does it even offer proof that it is effective in its efforts. CCP is trying to stop bots, perhaps not the way that you want them to but they are trying. It has seemed in the past that the were taking a very slow approach to stopping it and to some it still seems lackluster, but since every account is paid for one way or another, stopping the back end of rmt is more important for the company. once a character has virtual assets, its still virtual and can be taken away without any issues. If you arent saying that Jagex antibot measures work then what good is it using them as an example? CCP does do a lot to fight bots, they have a team in fact there to fight bots.....
9. The team is there to make up ways to stop bots. i sort of figured you would read that right.
10. still the team programs and thinks of ways to stop rmt and botting behaviors. you want to free them up to ... think of more ways to fight the new bots that will appear when the old bots dont work anymore?
11. was your complaint that mining does not bring in enough isk? or that the pay was too high? thats what that was there for. I am unsure if you think that ore is too cheap or too expensive. Increasing the isk value of the ore does not help the introduction of minerals to the market. i think you are missing that raising the price of minerals on the market (to pay miners better) also raises the costs of modules and ships that are used by everyone else. More miners lowers the costs of minerals. lowering the costs of ships but also the pay of miners. you know this right?
12. think army, hurry up and wait. move here. jump in, shoot, do stuff wait, run away. this can take many many hours. actual combat may be over in 15 minutes, or may be stretched out over many systems as you fight a retreat or chase an enemy. worst thing i can think of is a focus stealing popup right as you get that cap cyno, or the order to bridge (and the lag that that brings)
13. You seem to think that the added layer of antibot spam that you throw at people will make more people want to mine? why is this? since the drone regions change are there more miners? fewer? about the same? trit has gone from 2 isk p/u to 11, has that introduced a new wave of mining going on? (or rather was it the changes to mining barges?) even with all these new mining buffs, are there significantly more miners? or does it seem the same as last year?
I would argue its the same. just fewer goon alts ganking people in ice belts.
at what price point would you imagine trit to be worth mining? and how does antibot spam make more people want to mine when missions, non afk missions, make more isk then comparable time mining with no spam involved?
The whole idea of this thread is to help Eve, to evolve out of (The need to have employees watch for bots)
You must not be good at reading because AGAIN you get -1 for each section FOR NOT READING!!!
Sabre: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Nikk: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Roannon: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Verity: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Joe: +1 (for bringing up a very interesting fact...we might all be playing EVE for free if CCP is doing something illegal in that matter)
Alex: Pending
Kusum Fawn: -14 (This person quite possibly doesn't know how to read and/or is blonde and/or is completely unable to solve "Word math" type problems, his/her score is -14 pending further investigation) |
J ThreeTears Brimstoan
The Market Monstr Accumulative
6
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 21:27:00 -
[50] - Quote
Sabre, Nikk. The two of you showed exemplary problem solving skills and brought an idea to the table that could evolve the way we gather resources / mine in EVE Online. I would like to see your Ideas implemented. If there is any way I can help this process along (Voting, etc) let me know if you do post a thread/vote and I'll be there. Thanks again guys for your brilliant input.
Sabre: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Nikk: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Roannon: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Verity: +2 (Reading FIRST, then posting +Posting something helpful!)
Joe: +1 (for bringing up a very interesting fact...we might all be playing EVE for free if CCP is doing something illegal in that matter)
Alex: Pending |
|
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
427
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 21:29:00 -
[51] - Quote
Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and stop following this thread.
The polling of players is annoying me... |
Crimeo Khamsi
AirHogs Zulu People
250
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 21:43:00 -
[52] - Quote
Quantum Mass wrote:I was thinking about this today after seeing mining bots again on eve.
1) A timer of some sort between 2 hours and 3 hours.
2) A button that will appear at random on the GUI screen. (This so it can not be done by a bot prog)
3) This button will have a timer say 15 mins to allow PVPer`s the time to press it OR
3a) The timer only being on mining barges (if that type of coding can be done)
Any Comments or improvements please post them.
I for one am sick of bots!.
Let the WAR BEGIN!
It is absolutely trivial for a bot program to get a screenshot and look for a particular window with a particular button on it, of the type that you are describing. Randomly placing it on the screen would slow down HUMAN players more so than it slows down bots (takes your eyeballs a lot longer to search a screen than it takes a program) |
J ThreeTears Brimstoan
The Market Monstr Accumulative
6
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 21:43:00 -
[53] - Quote
Updating OP: The Following are posts of one great idea that could ACTUALLY EVOLVE the way we mine!
Posted by Sabre906
Bots OCR better than the average near-sighted Eve geek.Big smile
The reason botting is so much easier in Eve than other games, and less detectable, is because Eve is Spreadsheet Online.
Eve-style mining is not a task fit for live humans anyway. Just turn mining into an automated function like manufacturing, and all the botting problems will go away.
Mining job - runtime: 12 hours, cost: 50 mil isk, yield: xxx system dependent
Isk sink for Eve's economy, bots disappear.
Posted by Nikk |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Relativity Alliance
1084
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 22:13:00 -
[54] - Quote
J ThreeTears Brimstoan wrote:Conclusion: Not Currently Available. Sounds about right.
I would suggest that the mining ships get huge boosts to defense so long as the associated player ships remained on grid with them. (No ganking the mining devices if you can target the owning player) This gives incentives for PvP brawls, with the survival of the mining ship as the prize.
This loses value if the mining ship is easily attacked despite player presence willing to defend it.
Call it whatever, but the mining ship should be unbeatable so long as the player is present. (Player must be available to be shot at, no cloaks or other means that conceals them)
Trade off, the mining ship would be running a timed program the player cannot modify conveniently. It won't run off and get safe until x minutes or it's ore hold is full. This means the player stands his ground defending it, or it gets plowed by opposing forces into the side of the nearest roid.
Look Ma, that veldspar got a crashed ship on it! Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Crimeo Khamsi
AirHogs Zulu People
253
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 22:23:00 -
[55] - Quote
In response to the post 2 above this one:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=177237
I proposed something almost exactly the same awhile back (NPCs auto mine and then you bid on the minerals), for almost exactly the same reasons.. Everybody hated it. Maybe you still think it's a good idea. But definitely check out that thread first for a variety of arguments against it before pursuing the thought further, I'd say. |
Crimeo Khamsi
AirHogs Zulu People
253
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 22:27:00 -
[56] - Quote
I think the best way to combat AFK mining bots at this point is probably just to hire a cognitive/perceptual psychology professional and a dedicated programmer to work together to find behavioral patterns that are not human-like. And then don't tell any of the players what the patterns are that you're looking for.
This would probably stop almost everybody, although it would be expensive. |
J ThreeTears Brimstoan
The Market Monstr Accumulative
6
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 22:34:00 -
[57] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:J ThreeTears Brimstoan wrote:Conclusion: Not Currently Available. Sounds about right. I would suggest that the mining ships get huge boosts to defense so long as the associated player ships remained on grid with them. (No ganking the mining devices if you can target the owning player) This gives incentives for PvP brawls, with the survival of the mining ship as the prize. This loses value if the mining ship is easily attacked despite player presence willing to defend it. Call it whatever, but the mining ship should be unbeatable so long as the player is present. (Player must be available to be shot at, no cloaks or other means that conceals them) Trade off, the mining ship would be running a timed program the player cannot modify conveniently. It won't run off and get safe until x minutes or it's ore hold is full. This means the player stands his ground defending it, or it gets plowed by opposing forces into the side of the nearest roid. Look Ma, that veldspar got a crashed ship on it!
That does put a great spin on it, so the player isn't allowed to stop it at all. I like that, it would make it difficult to use the restroom but I like the idea of "Surviving" in order to receive your Ores. Since CCP does seem to be devoting more to PvP content, I can see it working out fantastically.
P.S. I posted Your and Sabre's ideas further up on this page. Credit is given where credit is due? If not let me know and I'll change it. |
J ThreeTears Brimstoan
The Market Monstr Accumulative
6
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Posted - 2013.01.16 22:49:00 -
[58] - Quote
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:I think the best way to combat AFK mining bots at this point is probably just to hire a cognitive/perceptual psychology professional and a dedicated programmer to work together to find behavioral patterns that are not human-like. And then don't tell any of the players what the patterns are that you're looking for.
This would probably stop almost everybody, although it would be expensive.
I'm sorry I'm just now reading through your posts and yes, I agree with the Windows API thing. I would like to ask, would this info be voluntary by the player?
Also I think that with multiple policies, styles of mining, and anti-botting programs, CCP could save mining/indy as a viable career. There shouldn't be a 100+ mil gap between mission running and minning and I think is CCP simply changed it up a bit miners and other players would be happy with the results. I don't think they will solve all of the problems, especially by implementing only one or two changes.
I also think that your idea would be a crafty change in scenery when it comes to mining.
Thanks for all the helpful input by the way.
Fly safe =) |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
282
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 00:29:00 -
[59] - Quote
I'm beginning to like this guy.
I await your measured responses to the points we have both laid out. Remember that the points that are numbered are referencing specific things that we have both stated. not everyone's posts between. Please though stay on topic.
Ty to keep it in the forums. Mails will not be responded to, and its a really sad way to try to hide stupidity. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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Lovely Dumplings
Lambda Mining
40
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Posted - 2013.01.17 00:31:00 -
[60] - Quote
J ThreeTears Brimstoan wrote:Crimeo Khamsi wrote:I think the best way to combat AFK mining bots at this point is probably just to hire a cognitive/perceptual psychology professional and a dedicated programmer to work together to find behavioral patterns that are not human-like. And then don't tell any of the players what the patterns are that you're looking for.
This would probably stop almost everybody, although it would be expensive. I'm sorry I'm just now reading through your posts and yes, I agree with the Windows API thing. I would like to ask, would this info be voluntary by the player? Also I think that with multiple policies, styles of mining, and anti-botting programs, CCP could save mining/indy as a viable career. There shouldn't be a 100+ mil gap between mission running and minning and I think is CCP simply changed it up a bit miners and other players would be happy with the results. I don't think they will solve all of the problems, especially by implementing only one or two changes. I also think that your idea would be a crafty change in scenery when it comes to mining. Thanks for all the helpful input by the way. Fly safe =)
An API hook is involuntary. It's something the program automatically checks. The reason Warden and other anti bot programs work so "well" for games like Warcraft, is that they are hugely invasive, scanning every bit of memory, taking screenshots for review...and even then, people bot successfully in WoW.
Bots are almost never used in mining anyway. Running lvl4's via bot is much more ISK efficient. Most of the time, what you think you see as a "bot", is a multi-boxer, using multiple clients and command mirroring software, which CCP says is legal. |
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