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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
727
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Posted - 2013.01.17 04:21:00 -
[31] - Quote
Wouldn't the people (~small portion of the community~) who manage starbases in alliances fall under the 'enabler' category of players CCP Seagull says need non-horrible tools to do their jobs |
Eon Ending
Cold Station 12 Surely You're Joking
12
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Posted - 2013.01.17 04:22:00 -
[32] - Quote
Chaos Incarnate wrote:I strongly disagree with the abandonment of the modular POS system, and support this thread in its entirety. It's been said by CCP that the development of the modular POS system would only help a few people; POSs impact daily life for thousands of players (to use CCP Seagull's terminology, the 'instigators' and 'enablers', especially the latter, have to deal with them all the time), and it's one of the most ancient and diseased features of EVE. I also think properly reimplemented, they can be an amazing source for the player interaction that CCP says it's striving for. It's also been said that it would be too much effort, and I respectfully disagree here as well. I think that you can spread the work out over a long period of time and develop it alongside other features. To quote my suggestion in the minutes blog thread: Quote:Here's what I'll suggest: let's break things down into meaningful chunks, and make it an 18/24 month project. Build the new POS system slowly as a 'farms and fields' conflict driver in all levels of space; eg, you anchor the new towers at certain beacons/exploration sites to seize control of them and provide resources/abilities, and keep the old system roughly the same until the new system is full featured enough to feasibly replace it.
Start out doing something simple for summer 2013 (small POSs anchored directly attached to comets, mining for moongoo - no guns or anything too complex, think something like a POCO), but expand iteratively from there over time to new areas while working on reimplementing POS functionality alongside this. Maybe you add med towers, reactors, guns, corp storage, and mooring in winter 2013; maybe large towers, industry, labs, reprocessing, market, contracts, and moon anchoring in summer 2014; and maybe the full system can be replaced by winter 2014 with full docking/captains quarters, forcefields, etc. I think this is in line with what CCP Unifex posted in his blog. I think the biggest argument that I have to make here is that this isn't going away. If you don't do this NOW and just kick the can down the road, in two years or five years or ten years the utter misery of the POS system is going to be dragging EVE down. Hell, it already is. -Chaos Word And good god help POSes out.
MEOW |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
759
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Posted - 2013.01.17 04:22:00 -
[33] - Quote
the reason why 'only a small portion of the community' is involved with POSes is because they are in a disastrous state. please fix POS mechanics.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Loki Lore
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
1
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Posted - 2013.01.17 04:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
Pos fix plz |
Styledatol
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
5
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Posted - 2013.01.17 04:24:00 -
[35] - Quote
Fix POSes plx.
...and for Bob's sake, let us swap subsystems. We harvest the materials here, we build them t3s here, but nop - can't assamble/swap subs in wspace. |
Irrius Matrye
Hard Knocks Inc.
1
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Posted - 2013.01.17 04:25:00 -
[36] - Quote
Saying that POSes only affect those who manage it and that POSes are a small aspect of EVE is a very ignorant statement. As many people have stated before, POSes can be found almost everywhere in space. Please fix the current POS system of it's current headaches and security issues CCP. |
AutumnWind1983
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
1
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Posted - 2013.01.17 04:26:00 -
[37] - Quote
In approximate 1/3 of all systems it is only possible to establish a semi-permanent presence via a POS. Living out of a POS is a huge pain that is complete with a multitude of quirks, of stupids rules, and ****** security for your assets either from theft or destruction. Of course, this 1/3 of all systems is w-space, which CCP has stated in wspace is the least broken, or working as intended part of eve. As such I cannot help but understand how a POS revamp would affect only a small part of the community and is in fact a poor use or resources on the part of CCP. . . . 18 months. . . . SoonTM . . . Meh **** it, I'll just walk through the door of the station that I don't have since a large part of the community interacts with those regularly (22%). . . . Seagull please continue to put GÇ£the enablersGÇ¥ . . . "through a lot of painful, unnecessary work." Doing otherwise would break CCP tradition and I would expect nothing but the best from :CCP: . . . |
Dietrich III
Hard Knocks Inc.
9
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Posted - 2013.01.17 04:27:00 -
[38] - Quote
POS mechanics are...well...a POS (Piece of ****).
They affect practically every wormhole dweller, anybody who moon mines, owns a super (like it or not), every Nullsec alliance, any hi/lowsec research corporation....
To say that POS fixes would only affect a small portion of EVE is absurd. Let's show them how big this "small portion" of EVE really is.
CSM, show them the light. CCP, PLEASE DO SOMETHING about this clunky, insecure and unintuitive POS interface that we've had to endure for far too long. |
Earl oSatrun
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
3
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Posted - 2013.01.17 04:28:00 -
[39] - Quote
Dear CCP
The POWER OF BOB compels you to fix the pos'.
Or failing that... please please please please please please please please (/emote too lazy to copy that word 10k times. It's the thought that counts, eh?) |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
572
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Posted - 2013.01.17 04:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
A rather disturbing viewpoint from CCP. |
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Rhavas
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
122
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Posted - 2013.01.17 04:31:00 -
[41] - Quote
+1 |
Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
213
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Posted - 2013.01.17 04:32:00 -
[42] - Quote
I brought this up a long time back as a neutral point for changes to the game.
It doesn't favor any portion of space over any other. *ALL* security status space gains if this is addressed. It isn't giving more to any area yet does reward players who show they are interested in longer-term investments, with risks, across the game.
Seriously -- look at it:
-- You change ships, like a hurricane, to "match others" of their ilk and CCP pisses off people who no longer can fit the ships like they used to.
-- You add ships and you cut into what other, existing ships are used for and that will annoy others.
-- If you change around resources in space, again, you are messing with how players operate and what they focus on for accomplishing things -- now favoring operations in this space or that one over how it was.
Addressing controls and capabilities for POS's rewards mostly "supporting abilities" of these *PLAYER OWNED* items, enhancing the uses of things that take a good deal of cooperative effort to use - these are "invested players" who need to keep play regularly to maintain and use them.
Unlike things that you don't have to log in to keep, you really do need to be involved in this game to properly use them *AND* they are an "at risk" item while deployed.
Net effect, of all the things CCP can enhance and extend, this rewards those who actually play the game regularly, using things that *ARE* at risk, without any favoritism for a given type of space one chooses to operate out of.
I really don't get how they can choose to shelve this vs other efforts that *WILL* annoy players. Those are much higher "player loss" changes than enhancing this portion of the game.
Note: No, I don't have a POS so I gain nothing really from these changes. I just see different areas of this game tweaked in ways that do annoy some/many -- this at least will engender a "worst case" of "I don't care about that..." - best case being an increase in the use of these being as they can be "adjusted" to be a better option than "no risk" things like NPC stations and Outposts. |
Eabegne
Tartarus Ventures Surely You're Joking
0
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Posted - 2013.01.17 04:33:00 -
[43] - Quote
Kniht wrote:Towers need major love soon.
O. L. |
James Arget
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
22
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Posted - 2013.01.17 04:33:00 -
[44] - Quote
I'm upping my efforts to attending fanfest specifically to be able to discuss this in person with devs. Yes, I'm serious, it is that important. |
Sklaer
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
1
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Posted - 2013.01.17 04:33:00 -
[45] - Quote
I support whatever this man says. |
Lissorandia
Unexpected Productions
0
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Posted - 2013.01.17 04:35:00 -
[46] - Quote
Supported, POS mechanics are frustrating and tedious at best, and hair pulling, rage inducing monstrosities at worst |
Mud Dawg
Hard Knocks Inc.
2
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Posted - 2013.01.17 04:38:00 -
[47] - Quote
I have lived in and out of POSes for a long damn time now and the *only* thing that's gotten better for them in that entire span of time is the change to the force field password. Thanks for that small but significant change. But the POS system clearly needs love, not only from an administrative standpoint, but from a graphical and implementation standpoint.
Why should a POS be significantly different than an NPC owned station? There's no reason at all. And it's not only WH dwellers, it's the nullsec, lowsec and even some highsec players that are impacted by POSs.
Just because it's a *large amount of work* doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. That's one of the lamest excuses ever CCP. Seriously.
And your assumption that it affects only a small number of players is based on... what? Try pulling the number of players flagged for 'config starbase equipment' or 'starbase fuel technician' and then *post* those numbers as a a percentage of active players if you want us to buy that particular bag of b.s.
We have higher priorities? Okay, fix those first, fine. Just keep these POS fixes in the pipeline.
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
2912
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Posted - 2013.01.17 04:38:00 -
[48] - Quote
Minutes wrote:Unifex stated that what CCP did was spend effort and prototype what would make a good POS system. It would, however, only affect the group of people who manage POSes. Focusing that amount of time and effort on some small singular aspect of the game and delivering only that GÇ£is what will kill the businessGÇ¥.
A good POS system would impact upon the play style of:
- W-space dwellers (all of them, regardless of roles)
- Manufacturers
- Researchers
- Inventors
- Miners
- People using POSes as logistics bases in hostile territory
- People competing with any of the above
- People relying on any of the above for income or support
Of all the players in EVE, the only ones whose play style will not be impacted by revamped POSes are the ones who only ever spin their ships in stations (and even that is up for debate).
Revamped POSes will go a long way to ameliorating the sucking chest wounds of nullsec.
Revamped POSes will go a long way towards moving the entire EVE economy into player hands.
NOT revamping POSes will kill the game more certainly than spending a year fixing them.
Suggesting that the POS using population is small right now, thus no revamp required, is clearly putting the cart before the house (the causative link is actually: POSes suck, so only desperate people use them) Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1432
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Posted - 2013.01.17 04:40:00 -
[49] - Quote
having a proper pos system would be much more as only a minigame for a minority. Cities of poses where in discussion after the limitation of anchoring a single pos per moon would be dropped. A lot of other fun extensions could be built on top of that (even WIS). New terrain is very much needed in eve (just take a look at the bring lowsec DED1/2 plexes back threads).
CCP just wrote a devblog about a new process which allows to deal with features which do not fit in one expansion... modular POSes: DO IT a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Doctor Mustaka
Bite Me inc Bitten.
0
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Posted - 2013.01.17 04:45:00 -
[50] - Quote
Fix POS mechanics now please..... |
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None ofthe Above
422
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Posted - 2013.01.17 04:46:00 -
[51] - Quote
I find it disturbing that POSes are being abandoned because they don't effect enough players.
And why do they not affect enough players? Because of their design.
Circular logic? You betcha.
POS revamp could include design changes that do make them important for more people. Either by making it easier and more prevalent for players to have them, or by having the players that do have them able offer more services to your average player.
An easy extension of the existing structure would be to allow the selling of jobs for material research of blueprints to strangers or by standings or whatnot. Very popular, I'd wager.
Or the POS could be important for any number of economic activities and they could hand them out at the end of the business tutorial. Make it easy for every one to have and make it their own home.
Not entirely sure these ideas are the best, but just a few things off the top of my head. EVE is a sandbox; The only "end-game" content in EVE is the crap that makes you rage-quit.
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Aluniver Cabella
Hard Knocks Inc.
0
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Posted - 2013.01.17 04:48:00 -
[52] - Quote
I'm a POS. Fix me. |
Celery Man
Talocan Mining And Industrial Talocan United
60
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Posted - 2013.01.17 04:50:00 -
[53] - Quote
Good to know CCP does not care at all about the subscription fees of anyone living in wormhole space.
We matter so little that its fine to lie through your teeth at us about a POS revamp for all this time.
Time to unsubscribe my Wormhole Accounts. It clearly isn't worth playing in a part of the game they have paid zero attention since release, and clearly do not plan on fixing anything that is wrong with it. |
Winthorp
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
5
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Posted - 2013.01.17 04:54:00 -
[54] - Quote
I was critical of Two Steps lack of response until i see now he would have been at the time working on this blog and post, MY apologies and thanks for making it as big as an issue as it really should be.
POS's are horrible as they are and need to be fixed above all else. Fixing POS's will in fact invigorate more gameplay in Wh's and in the greater EVE community, it will enable WH corporations to actively recruit without so much paranoia and vile towards the possibility of recruitment. It will allow HS, LS and NS POS's to be built in greater numbers.
+1 Two Step for the response we needed. |
Akyla Dey
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
31
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Posted - 2013.01.17 04:58:00 -
[55] - Quote
It may not effect a large amount of the EVE population (and I don't actually believe that for a second), but it certainly does effect some of your loyalest, longest term players. People who have continued to sub through thick and thin, people who have made the effort to bring magic and content to your sandbox, people who have gone to lengths to bring new players to the game and keep them there. Discounting them discounts a (possibly) small but very vital part of your game. For that reason alone you should be looking at POSs.
Agreeing that if a POS revamp isn't in the near future, some stopgap measures should be taken to address the glaring issues (security, storage, management, etc). |
Omen Nihilo
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
95
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Posted - 2013.01.17 05:01:00 -
[56] - Quote
If I could pick one area of the game that would influence the most players... POSes come to mind. |
Thor66777
Obstergo Exhale.
8
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Posted - 2013.01.17 05:02:00 -
[57] - Quote
Please fix POS's, as a wormhole dweller, POS managments is a pain. The only way to keep our stuff safe is to have multiple POS's for new members. So after awhile there will be 20 small POS's floating around the system when we could all live in one. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
2912
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 05:03:00 -
[58] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Pretty much the entire CSM agrees that POSes have to be replaced in the mid- to long-term, and in the meantime, something has to be done to reduce the pain induced by current POSes.
I for one will be working hard to encourage CCP, during the planning process that they have just started, to choose a theme that naturally includes work on POSes. The unprecedented access we are getting during this process gives us the opportunity to make the case.
Our second Skype meeting about this is on Friday. Wish us luck.
Here's a suggestion for a themed expansion release:
First theme: Industry
Focus: farms and fields, the player driven economy
Output: homogenise the refinery & reprocessing system. All NPC stations use variants of POS refineries/reprocessing modules. They all have a number of disassembly lines which handle a certain volume of product per hour, at a particular efficiency, with associated job and time costs. New skills to enhance processing/refining line capacity per hour. POS refineries will generally be better, higher capacity facilities will have worse efficiency (thus rewarding all-5 industrialists with bean counter implants).
Output: rework industrial ships. Remove ore bay and survey bonus from Orca, add new industrial command ship with skirmish link bonus, large ore bay. Add new ORE frigate with T2 variant (astrometrics/covops) no weapons, survey range, survey speed and web speed bonus.
Output: move Rorqual link bonus from industrial core to hull/ship skill, remove rorqual ore bay, add industrial capital ship with focus on ore bay & compression lines, ability for freighters to load from hangars. Thus the "field command" variants of orca & rorqual focus on mining head activity, "fleet command" variant focuses on ore logistics. Frigates focus on exploration and nimble mining. Rorqual becomes useful in a belt due to extreme range tractors and no need to fit industrial core.
Output: allow ice harvester upgrades to affect cycle times on mining lasers
Output: freighter variant specialising in compressed ore transport, requires some support skill such as ore compression
Output: ammo bays which hold charges, lenses, scripts, probes, missiles, etc.
Output: remove mineral compression: all manufactured items become larger than the minerals required to manufacture them.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Aurelius Harrison
Aperture Harmonics K162
0
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Posted - 2013.01.17 05:05:00 -
[59] - Quote
Just because something is hard, doesn't mean you shoudn't do it. |
Dino Boff
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
18
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Posted - 2013.01.17 05:07:00 -
[60] - Quote
Living at a POS and building at a POS is a pain, and POS related role are ********.
Fix POSes now. |
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