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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Ametius
DYNAMIC INTERVENTION ORPHANS OF EVE
2
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Posted - 2013.01.18 10:01:00 -
[2041] - Quote
Iosue wrote:i'm definately in support of POS's finally getting reworked. this serves to benefit many players from large null sec alliances to WH dwellers to solo hi-sec researchers. additionally, doing this in the right way may encourage players that have never considered owning and operating a POS to do so. Please do this CCP!!
If anything, the theme for the next few expansions should be PLAYER OWNED STRUCTURES. Don't stop with the current abilities of POS's, why not add additional modules that allow us the customize our POS's. They could be a space restaurant, neon sign, living quarters or a bar that allows us the ability pimp our POS. These don't even have to effect game play but could allow players to express a little creativity.
Expansio Theme: "Build your own Empire"
It may run over several expansion to complete but it affects every part and region of the game and at its core is POS System revamp. |
Bloodredd
Event Horizon Expeditionaries Apocalypse Now.
0
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Posted - 2013.01.18 10:06:00 -
[2042] - Quote
Post... from POS-occupied null. |
Zzutar
Frozen Dawn Inc Arctic Light
0
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Posted - 2013.01.18 10:14:00 -
[2043] - Quote
I strongly support the motion to rework the POS mechanics in the immediate future.
Being a WH resident and belonging to a WH alliance, the two main issues I would like to see getting the top priority are enabling private ownership of modules and ships in a POS, and enabling alliance level access rights to all POS modules. |
Haethorn
Strategic Acquisitions Group Tactical Research Lab
5
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Posted - 2013.01.18 10:16:00 -
[2044] - Quote
Putting aside my experience in W-space.
If your corp is based in K-space where there is competition for manufacturing, research, invention slots, your CEO or an underling might be running a POS as part of corp operations. Time & frustration running the POS takes these people away from other aspects of the game & that effects everyone in their corp. |
Jack Jomar
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.01.18 10:17:00 -
[2045] - Quote
Another note to support POS revamps. There's so much that can be done with this.
With manufacture and research potentially moved to POSes, and with a revamp POSes become more desirable for everyone, stations would simply become places for people to do this work when they haven't *yet* gotten a POS.
And the way POSes are currently used as safe locations for alliances could also change, allowing everything from large deathstars, to possibly sneaky hidden bases for Blops players.
This is a thing, and it needs to happen. |
thebarry
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
5
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Posted - 2013.01.18 10:43:00 -
[2046] - Quote
revamp plz |
Blurtmaster
Aperture Harmonics K162
4
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Posted - 2013.01.18 10:46:00 -
[2047] - Quote
POS:es are my nr 1 feature. |
Darth Skorpius
Legion of Darkwind Order of the Void
81
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Posted - 2013.01.18 10:46:00 -
[2048] - Quote
i remembered i have one of those blog things, so i wrote a thing about how i feel about poses.
http://www.skorpiuschronicles.com/?p=839 Follow my Adventures in New Eden! http://www.skorpiuschronicles.com/
Baa Means Baa! |
Ling Noy
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.01.18 11:00:00 -
[2049] - Quote
Chaos Incarnate wrote:I strongly disagree with the abandonment of the modular POS system, and support this thread in its entirety. It's been said by CCP that the development of the modular POS system would only help a few people; POSs impact daily life for thousands of players (to use CCP Seagull's terminology, the 'instigators' and 'enablers', especially the latter, have to deal with them all the time), and it's one of the most ancient and diseased features of EVE. I also think properly reimplemented, they can be an amazing source for the player interaction that CCP says it's striving for. It's also been said that it would be too much effort, and I respectfully disagree here as well. I think that you can spread the work out over a long period of time and develop it alongside other features. To quote my suggestion in the minutes blog thread: Quote:Here's what I'll suggest: let's break things down into meaningful chunks, and make it an 18/24 month project. Build the new POS system slowly as a 'farms and fields' conflict driver in all levels of space; eg, you anchor the new towers at certain beacons/exploration sites to seize control of them and provide resources/abilities, and keep the old system roughly the same until the new system is full featured enough to feasibly replace it.
Start out doing something simple for summer 2013 (small POSs anchored directly attached to comets, mining for moongoo - no guns or anything too complex, think something like a POCO), but expand iteratively from there over time to new areas while working on reimplementing POS functionality alongside this. Maybe you add med towers, reactors, guns, corp storage, and mooring in winter 2013; maybe large towers, industry, labs, reprocessing, market, contracts, and moon anchoring in summer 2014; and maybe the full system can be replaced by winter 2014 with full docking/captains quarters, forcefields, etc. I think this is in line with what CCP Unifex posted in his blog. I think the biggest argument that I have to make here is that this isn't going away. If you don't do this NOW and just kick the can down the road, in two years or five years or ten years the utter misery of the POS system is going to be dragging EVE down. Hell, it already is. -Chaos
Someone give this man a medal please.
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Debir Achen
The Red Circle Inc.
35
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Posted - 2013.01.18 11:04:00 -
[2050] - Quote
Going from hi-sec stations to a POS hangar is a major shock to the syatem. Lets leave aside the permissions issues, and just look at the interface. Inside a POS, you can't show contents on containers or ships, you can't access containers or ship cargo, you get annoying permissions warnings every time you deposit an item in a hangar (even if there's nothing stopping you removing it), and you can't repackage stuff.
For example, to put stuff into a container, you need to undock in an indy big enough to hold the container, put the container in the indy, put the stuff in the container, put the container back in the POS hangar (click through warning), and finally put back the indy. Ugh!
And since everything in the POS belongs to the POS, it completely breaks the assets search interface. I might have a few billion in assets sitting in a hangar division, but as far as the game is concerned I have no assets. Too bad if I want to find out where a given module or resource is located.
Even if we don't get modular POS-es, at least fix the inventory and permissions issues on the current iteration. Please. Aren't Caldari supposed to have a large signature? |
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Miss Manufacturing
Reconfiguration Nation Transmission Lost
1
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Posted - 2013.01.18 11:06:00 -
[2051] - Quote
POSes need work, +1 this thread |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
1630
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Posted - 2013.01.18 11:11:00 -
[2052] - Quote
CCP Gargant wrote: Nowhere has CCP stated that the Player Owned Structure system will not receive attention. Many of you have already pointed out that it is painful to use at best, a huge pile of unusable dingleberries at worst. Some talk about this being the "old" CCP appearing again but I want to assure all of you that the mistakes that happened in 2011 will not repeat themselves. CCP has only stated that THE OVERHAUL CANNOT HAPPEN ALL AT ONCE
I can't make promises for game designers or the people that make content for EVE Online. Please try to remember that. What I can do is assure you that your voices have been heard, the opinion of the CSM has been heard, and the concerns raised in this thread have been heard.
After a further look at this post I realised that as I had said before NOWHERE does CCP say it will do anything about POS other than the usual SOON and that is set with THE OVERHAUL CANNOT HAPPEN ALL AT ONCE
and this little line I missed "I can't make promises for game designers or the people that make content for EVE Online." So in another words what he is saying is that his statement is just more CCP fluff with no actual content.
I will admit after this I could never go to a Fanfest, they will bring out something they have wasted hours of man hours on that could be used to fix the game to show their Vision for the Future and I would just be sour and storm out as it would just be another pile of lies from CCP. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread
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Celestial One
Militant Miners
5
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Posted - 2013.01.18 11:12:00 -
[2053] - Quote
Valkyrs wrote:It is a POS in all sense of the acronym, please please work on it!
SO TRUE! |
Penates
Unknown-Heroes
1
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Posted - 2013.01.18 11:21:00 -
[2054] - Quote
POS fix?? Yay? |
David Barr
Barr Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
11
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Posted - 2013.01.18 11:22:00 -
[2055] - Quote
WTB new POS mechanics. |
Anthar Thebess
REPUBLIKA ORLA C0VEN
44
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Posted - 2013.01.18 11:25:00 -
[2056] - Quote
+1 do something about this.
1. They should be more logical - for example common storage space. 2. Have more DPS - be able to take at least one capital during a reinforce phase ( if someone is stupid ) 3. Be more customizable 4. Pos shield could be an additional module - vary in size ... and fuel consumption 5. Have different base setups: - industry pos 1 reinforce but no major ship storage - "home pos" large ship storage ... but no industry capability ( multiple reinforce timers ... yes sometimes you want to get 3 days off from the game) - military instalation High damage, high defence - JB, Cyno Jammers etc ... no industry or big ship storage, but large shield .
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Alexa Monti
IX Legio Hispana Aquila Fidelas Constans
1
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Posted - 2013.01.18 11:26:00 -
[2057] - Quote
We need new POS mechanics |
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1041
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Posted - 2013.01.18 11:36:00 -
[2058] - Quote
So how many pages do we need in order to show that POSs are not just for a "small portion of the community"? And that contrary to what CCP thinks, the playerbase does not expect it to be ALL RELEASED AT ONCE. What we want is for CCP to actually START on it.
Same goes for Corporation Roles..... |
Vicious Meow
Apex Overplayed Coalition Fatal Ascension
2
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Posted - 2013.01.18 11:41:00 -
[2059] - Quote
+1 POS overhaul |
Torrelus Toh'Kon
Cadre Assault Force This is why we cant have nice things
4
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Posted - 2013.01.18 11:49:00 -
[2060] - Quote
Taking CSM Two step's blog post as a starting point, I'd like to highlight one specific line right near the top, from the CSM minutes - "It would, however, only affect the group of people who manage POSes."
I am sorry CCP, but you have here revealed two MAJOR flaws in your collective thinking.
1) You have seriously under estimated how many people care about modular POS, or POS control/maintenance/access/etc. So called "POS managers" exist ONLY because the existed implementation is both geared towards that point of view, and enforces it by being unbearable to the masses.
2) You have seriously under estimated just how much you can change POSs, in terms of player interaction (HCI, believe it or not you 'could' even make them noob 'friendly'), software level design and implementation, and let's not forget fundamental behaviour and functionality.
Yes, POSs have a huge number of things tied into them. For start, hangers and ship array for living, refineries, labs, reactions, construction arrays, defensive mods, and optionally manable offensive mods. For another list, indy corp science work, drug manufacture, super capital manufacture, jump bridges, moon goo, any and all parts of wormhole life (how many people do that, insignificant minority, all POS managers you say?), oh and lets not forget the role they used to have in sov control. I dare suggest more could be listed.
I agree with CCP, this is a huge complicated and seriously daunting task. I would not have suggested doing it in a 'single' expansion under the old system, but also find it inconceivable that sections cannot (or would not, or might not) be linked to the themes of the next three or four expansions.
You want themes, I have one. It ties in to problems with POSs and null-sec. I call it "helping the little guy", or "how small entities can live in null-sec without an outpost or clone station". Oh yeah BTW, null-sec has a serious issue with distribution of medical clone facilities. Imagine being able to build a POS up to be a bit like an outpost on a smaller scale. This means lots of personal hanger space (anchor for self, access by allowance list as in custom channels), the ability to boost the shield/fitting stats of a tower (either linking of towers, or new modules for shield/PG/CPU), and finally addition of a new POS module for medical clones (corp has automatic 'office' rites for medical). Dedicated fuel hangers (s/m/l) would solve scaling better than internal bays, and time (seconds) taken to consume a block instead of number of blocks per unit time.
On the inevitable thought of "but that'll mean far too much new artwork", feel free to reuse existing models where appropriate for a year or so. There in no reason why a 'modular personal hanger' should look any different from the old fashioned 'generic achored hanger' at first release. Much as we love Eve being pretty, we prefer function before form. You don't even need to replace the anchoring with a nicer Lego(tm) clip-on functionality until the last stage two years from now.
Now I return to where I started on this, with the one line quote and the flaws it reveals. I offer you my professional opinions and advice as a software engineer with experience creating complicated modular systems on multi-year projects.
1) DO NOT ever start a system rebuild be asking things like "what's wrong with the current system" and assuming things like "few users means few potential users". Equally, never start by looking to 'fix' or 'improve' the current system. Generally speaking, looking at an old system will not help, because the old system doesn't work. Invariably it either never worked, or the use case out grew the solution.
2) Always start with a fresh slate, ask "what is possible, desirable, desperately wanted, and needed" (ask in that order, implement in reverse). Ask repeatedly in different contexts, "what might different classes of user do with it, back-end admin (databases/etc), technical freedom versus limitation, etc".
3) Just because you're 'Agile' doesn't mean you can't be predetermined. Do the long term final design up front, and be certain it's one you can stick with. Do it at the high level, and do it at the mid level, let Agile handle the low level. It's easy to define a large 'complex' system that can be compartmentally built and work flawlessly, if you ask enough questions; oh and if you build the answers of "I don't know (yet)" into the design. In so doing, develop a 'general' solution instead of a custom one. You have recently succeeded at this sort of thing with smaller issues, such as Crimewatch. In fact as you demostrated in Crimewatch, no software problem is too complicated if you ask simple enough questions.
Please, please, please CCP, make 'POSs for all' and 'null-sec for the little guy' your top priorities for summer 2013. We will forgive you a small implementation, if you have instead a solid and guarunteed design for these features that will be incrementally delivered, without failure or back tracking.
P.S. Not only does null-sec lack sufficient medical facilites, but sov space is impossible for the little folk. It's giants and pets. Perhaps sov maintenance bills should increase exponentially with the number and quality of systems held. |
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Mindboner
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.01.18 12:02:00 -
[2061] - Quote
POSes please - security is hard now! |
Davzarek
Aperture Harmonics K162
1
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Posted - 2013.01.18 12:05:00 -
[2062] - Quote
All areas of space null, empire and WH needs better living quaters.
Right now they make baby Jesus cry!
Head Dev that fixes them will get a bottle of vodka! |
Jamie Banks
Wasted and Still Mining Lunar Industries Partnership
23
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Posted - 2013.01.18 12:13:00 -
[2063] - Quote
Signed.
I gave up on POS' years ago.
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BloodSoaked Goddess
Stone Circle W-Space
1
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Posted - 2013.01.18 12:17:00 -
[2064] - Quote
W-Space for POS-changes! |
Bazul Grandmas
Dominion Empire Mining and Mfg
1
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Posted - 2013.01.18 12:18:00 -
[2065] - Quote
Signed -- This really needs some work! |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave
344
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Posted - 2013.01.18 12:23:00 -
[2066] - Quote
Hey John Lander.... You saved the world once and saved the eve universe other many times.... time to save it again making POS comfortable... ( well... Everyone knows that you are doing exactly this, but we want to put some pressure in the POS feature becouse as players we lack this in EVE and we have many friends that left EVE just becouse of this...)
so... imagine that as 2000 players means 2000+ subscriptions... how many devs you can keep in this project and also have profit?
Also, Build your Empire is a god Theme for the next expansion... you can ask people to vote if you are not sure... Please read this! > New POS system (Block Built) Please read this! > Refining and Reprocess Revamp |
Yinmatook
Skilled Refugees Carthaginian Naval Supply Industries
2
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Posted - 2013.01.18 12:40:00 -
[2067] - Quote
My Corp/Alliance works in Hi Sec. We need POS improvements for security and allowing Alliance members to actually use the POS that the management corp anchored in space. Without the POS, our T2 manufacturing would grind to a halt because of the horrendously long wait times in NPC stations for Copy and Material Research slots.
Please make POS's better.
Yinmatook Director, Skilled Refugees |
space chikun
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
56
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Posted - 2013.01.18 12:49:00 -
[2068] - Quote
Now that I've raged, I'll put forward a simpler modular POS idea so I can say I was constructive.
1. Don't worry about pretty. We can deal with ugly at first. 2. Make a "Starbase Gantry" of sizes Micro, Small, Medium, Large, X-Large and Mega, make it anchorable anywhere* 3. Push them out in a major update. 4. Iterate shortly afterward by adding a storage module for each size that changes what the gantry looks like when applied and add storage access controls / storage; no fuel or power is required, as this module has no shields.
Basic concepts: No gantry can have more than 1 module attached directly Gantries can't be anchored within 5km of a gate or mega gantry. Allow them to be anchored inside a current POS FF, where size appropriate Want shields on the structure? Put fuel in the gantry's fuel bay. Micro gantries shouldn't need more than 1 block a week to generate basic shields. Scale up for larger.
From there - iterate new modules and looks for these things. Maybe eventually an invasion module for Large+ gantries can be made that has multiple module slots itself - with a specific set of types that can be slotted.
A lot of this sounds complicated, but if you start with a simple base that you can build upon, you can iterate however you want.
Hell, if you get 3 modules in and realize it's useless to replace our current FF towers, that's fine - you can deal with those another way, and just use these for some neat structure opportunities *in addition* to the current (hopefully revamped a little) POS system. |
T'san Manaan
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
51
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Posted - 2013.01.18 13:01:00 -
[2069] - Quote
yes please |
Shasz
Angels of Anarchy AL3XAND3R.
29
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Posted - 2013.01.18 13:06:00 -
[2070] - Quote
CCP needs a theme.
How about Ownership and Pride?
Take pride in the ships you own (custom paint/colors). Take pride in your frontier homestead (small, modular POS beginnings) Take pride in your planetary installations (PI upgrades, Dust 514 defense installations or something) Take pride in your Alliance's holdings or accomplishments (Some step toward sov revamp) Be proud of your accomplishments (Manufacture-able monuments that can be anchored)
POS: Begin the modular POS feature with small, personal outposts that can be placed anywhere. Give them hangar space. Let them mount a small amount of defense or attack modules. Later add other features like refining modules, research labs, manufacturing plants, shield generators, etc.
Maybe each modular POS has not only power-grid and CPU, but also a certain number of hard-points it can accept modules onto. Come up with a unified art design for mating up these hard-point surfaces, and you can mix and match. Maybe some modules have expansions for the number of hard-points. Maybe some boost the CPU and power-grid with supplementary generators. While I'm a huge fan of LEGO, I'm thinking more of a Tinkertoy design here.
Down the road, each of these modules could have their own interiors. Dust battles could be fought inside them, or something related to WiS. Anyway, this brainstorm is starting to ramble, but give us a home of our own that we can take pride in and design to our satisfaction.
Paint: Dozens of ideas abound for this. Make it happen! Add an isk sink on repairs such that it costs extra to repaint the damaged hull or armor sections. Sell Unique militia skins for LP. Sell paint blueprints. Involve the community in designing the paint schemes and select only appropriate patterns. Give credit to the author's characters in the blueprint description. Ownership - Pride!
PI: I'm sure you have plans for Dust/PI stuff. It most likely fits in this theme.
Nullsec: No idea what the plan is here, but you can kick it off with pride.
Monuments: Let the art team run with ideas for small, medium and large monuments. Let us anchor them. Let them absorb lots of minerals. Let them have custom text descriptions. Let them be blown up in accordance with Crimewatch. Anchoring a can and naming it something happens all over New Eden. Clearly there is demand for something like this. And it has to be an easy feature to implement, and its something the art team can dabble with in their spare time.
Perhaps a thesaurus might be handy in finding a snappier name for the theme, but Pride and Ownership lets you fit in all sorts of crowd-pleasing features. |
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