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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
297
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Posted - 2013.01.20 04:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
Every system controlled by an Alliance has X systems in them with X number of planets with X number of moons.
At each moon a POS.
At each POS X amount of structures.
Each structures have how many slots means potentially hundreds of slots in one system alone.
In every region potential for thousands of slots running.
If CEO's can't get each corp member to anchor a POS and get them to produce, at the same time have a corp fund for buying fuel and logical support for fuel or alliances not supporting logical lines for this then why blame a broken null? Seems more like inept leadership to me.
Now this; instead of spamming CCP for hi sec nerf why not ask for a new feature like NPC mercs to help guard their POS'es and assets. this will help for players in Null not having to be on guard protecting moons all the time giving them more freedom to roam. |
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
275
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Posted - 2013.01.20 04:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:Every system controlled by an Alliance has X systems in them with X number of planets with X number of moons.
At each moon a POS.
At each POS X amount of structures.
Each structures have how many slots means potentially hundreds of slots in one system alone.
In every region potential for thousands of slots running.
If CEO's can't get each corp member to anchor a POS and get them to produce, at the same time have a corp fund for buying fuel and logistical support for fuel or alliances not supporting logical lines for this then why blame a broken null? Seems more like inept leadership to me.
Now this; instead of spamming CCP for hi sec nerf why not ask for a new feature like NPC mercs to help guard their POS'es and assets. this will help for players in Null not having to be on guard protecting moons all the time giving them more freedom to roam.
Spending trillions of ISK to have a destructible industrial base that you need to defend to manufacture stuff VS spending 3 peanuts to use a indestructible one.
I wonder which one is easyer to work with. |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
297
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 04:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Right, but that is part of the price for having access to the best stuff in game.
If it's too expensive then why do corps stay? |
Lykouleon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
612
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Posted - 2013.01.20 04:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Have you every run a POS before? Have you every gone through the mind-numbingly boring process of setting one up, managing it, fueling it, and logging in during the middle of the night to stront-time it because some jerk decided to come in and violence your spacestation? Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER SO I CAN HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD
Also, your boobs :o --áCCP Eterne, 2012.11.05 14:50 |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
1640
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 04:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Piugattuk wrote:Every system controlled by an Alliance has X systems in them with X number of planets with X number of moons.
At each moon a POS.
At each POS X amount of structures.
Each structures have how many slots means potentially hundreds of slots in one system alone.
In every region potential for thousands of slots running.
If CEO's can't get each corp member to anchor a POS and get them to produce, at the same time have a corp fund for buying fuel and logistical support for fuel or alliances not supporting logical lines for this then why blame a broken null? Seems more like inept leadership to me.
Now this; instead of spamming CCP for hi sec nerf why not ask for a new feature like NPC mercs to help guard their POS'es and assets. this will help for players in Null not having to be on guard protecting moons all the time giving them more freedom to roam. Spending trillions of ISK to have a destructible industrial base that you need to defend to manufacture stuff VS spending 3 peanuts to use a indestructible one. I wonder which one is easyer to work with. You missed the fact that running so many POS would require large alliances to have a suicide hotline for the POS managers and ontop of all of that you still need stations to allow you to refine or you lose 25% of what you mine as well as the fact you would need to import a huge amount of hi-sec minerals to build what you wanted. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread
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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
297
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 04:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yes, I've had a pos, but any Alliance that cannot defend their assets you have to ask WHY are they living there then? |
Shamus O'Reilly
Gungnirs' Point I Know Right
65
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Posted - 2013.01.20 04:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:Right, but that is part of the price for having access to the best stuff in game.
If it's too expensive then why do corps stay?
Because of hisec and the sheer ease of logistics/alts. Noticed this once i figured out how easily JFs can move anything you need for 500k-1mil a jump.
That and the null indie isn't really viable compared to just moving/selling hi ends in hisec and buying everything you need from jita en masse.
By the way if CCP added NPC mercs to defend player assets wouldn't that take away from the... player aspect of the game? |
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
277
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 04:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:Right, but that is part of the price for having access to the best stuff in game.
If it's too expensive then why do corps stay?
You don't understand. They don't stay there for the industry. Most stuff are produced in high sec in the welfare industrial base because it is more efficient to do so and haul it back to null. Your proposition would need quite a major editing for it to be worthwhile. You need to remember that as long as it is more efficient to build stuff in high even accounting for transportation, stuff will be built there.
For a buildup of industry to happen in null, the buildup + security to keep it standing + hassle of much less seeded amrket to buy mats from need to be smaller than it is in high sec. Setuping hundred of POS and fueling them + keeping them up + getting the mats to these lines is heaps and bound more trouble and cost than amking everything in high and hauling it to null. |
Sala Kyss
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
18
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Posted - 2013.01.20 05:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
The best stuff in the game? Are you kidding?
Noxcium is constantly rising above zydrine in price, Megacyte is low as hell, and nearly all of the "high ends" of minerals are at an all-time low.
You make more if not just BARELY under mining veldspar constantly in hi-sec versus mining arkonor in nullsec. You're thought process is flawed because of the whole hi-sec vs nullsec. It needs a nerf, it demands a nerf. Nowhere have high-ends ever been this low before, not to mention that hi-sec has no isk sinks other than suicide gankers. We have sov bills, etc which is mildly alleviated with taxes and moon goo.
Seriously go back to your missions and don't whine if/when they become nerfed |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
297
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 05:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Piugattuk wrote:Every system controlled by an Alliance has X systems in them with X number of planets with X number of moons.
At each moon a POS.
At each POS X amount of structures.
Each structures have how many slots means potentially hundreds of slots in one system alone.
In every region potential for thousands of slots running.
If CEO's can't get each corp member to anchor a POS and get them to produce, at the same time have a corp fund for buying fuel and logistical support for fuel or alliances not supporting logical lines for this then why blame a broken null? Seems more like inept leadership to me.
Now this; instead of spamming CCP for hi sec nerf why not ask for a new feature like NPC mercs to help guard their POS'es and assets. this will help for players in Null not having to be on guard protecting moons all the time giving them more freedom to roam. Spending trillions of ISK to have a destructible industrial base that you need to defend to manufacture stuff VS spending 3 peanuts to use a indestructible one. I wonder which one is easyer to work with. You missed the fact that running so many POS would require large alliances to have a suicide hotline for the POS managers and ontop of all of that you still need stations to allow you to refine or you lose 25% of what you mine as well as the fact you would need to import a huge amount of hi-sec minerals to build what you wanted.
I understand, yes null should get 100% refine absolutely. hi sec minerals? Why, they have everything hi sec has even more.
This is why any Alliance or corporation should have BPO's to build POS'es in case of a loss, I understand there is risk, but that is why it's 0.0 last time I checked. |
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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
297
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 05:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sala Kyss wrote:The best stuff in the game? Are you kidding?
Noxcium is constantly rising above zydrine in price, Megacyte is low as hell, and nearly all of the "high ends" of minerals are at an all-time low.
You make more if not just BARELY under mining veldspar constantly in hi-sec versus mining arkonor in nullsec. You're thought process is flawed because of the whole hi-sec vs nullsec. It needs a nerf, it demands a nerf. Nowhere have high-ends ever been this low before, not to mention that hi-sec has no isk sinks other than suicide gankers. We have sov bills, etc which is mildly alleviated with taxes and moon goo.
Seriously go back to your missions and don't whine if/when they become nerfed
And how is hi responsible for the drop in hi ends?
It's at an all time low because of Null not hi your statement that my thinking is flawed is looking kinda like swiss cheese.
If hi sec had lots of sinks everywhere then people would hoard more isk and stuff further depressing hi end minerals cause guess what, people don't buy when they're broke.
If taxes are high in null it's not hi sec either.
Moon goo, great point, hi doesn't have it.
I'm not whining I'm responding to post regarding hi. |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
297
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 05:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Piugattuk wrote:Right, but that is part of the price for having access to the best stuff in game.
If it's too expensive then why do corps stay? You don't understand. They don't stay there for the industry. Most stuff are produced in high sec in the welfare industrial base because it is more efficient to do so and haul it back to null. Your proposition would need quite a major editing for it to be worthwhile. You need to remember that as long as it is more efficient to build stuff in high even accounting for transportation, stuff will be built there. For a buildup of industry to happen in null, the buildup + security to keep it standing + hassle of much less seeded amrket to buy mats from need to be smaller than it is in high sec. Setuping hundred of POS and fueling them + keeping them up + getting the mats to these lines is heaps and bound more trouble and cost than amking everything in high and hauling it to null.
That's a point to remember, most of the folks in Null are alts or have alts living in hi.
If a build up needs to happen + security ect ect then having hi sec as it is is a + not a negative cause even if there is a buff to null industry you still have to protect it, if nobody want to protect their assets then what's the point of having the prestige of being a null corp with all the goodies and no work. |
Psychotic Monk
The Skunkworks
542
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 05:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
The argument isn't that the POSs are expensive or a pain in the ass to run or anything (although they are).
The argument is that POSs are more expensive to run than building your **** in highsec, even if you count the JF fuel to get your finished product out to nullsec.
They are complaining that doing all that work and sinking all that money still puts them in a situation that's worse than those doing no work and sinking no money into their infrastructure. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement. |
No More Heroes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2135
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 05:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:If CEO's can't get each corp member to anchor a POS and get them to produce
You really gonna give roles to every Tom, **** and Harry? This is why highsec dudes should not opine about 0.0
CSM Winter 2012 Summit Minutes- "On the subject of vanity items, Two step expressed many player's desire to be able to build a ***** in-áspace." |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2593
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 05:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
'give everyone in your alliance pos roles' - some highsec idiot |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
313
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 05:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:If CEO's can't get each corp member to anchor a POS and get them to produce
Not everyone is or wants to be an industry oriented player.
There are also security concerns, as Nicolo so colorfully mentioned above me.
POS are godawful for production.
You're spreading out one of the problems with production in nullsec - the fact that it requires you to move, via freighter, a crapton of minerals, which is decidedly harder and less safe in nullsec - out over multiple, possibly dozens, of discrete points.
Do we need to illustrate further why this is a horrible idea? This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2431
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 05:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:Now this; instead of spamming CCP for hi sec nerf why not ask for a new feature like NPC mercs to help guard their POS'es and assets. this will help for players in Null not having to be on guard protecting moons all the time giving them more freedom to roam.
So you're telling us that, instead of asking CCP to fix the problem where Null has no viable way to increase its manufacturing capacity (Spendig ~100k ISK/hr (entirely ignoring the capital investment and risk of loss) to fuel a manufacturing line that costs 600ISK/hr in HS is not a viable option), you're suggesting that we ask CCP to Make Nullsec into High Sec?
How about no. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
297
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 06:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
Psychotic Monk wrote:The argument isn't that the POSs are expensive or a pain in the ass to run or anything (although they are).
The argument is that POSs are more expensive to run than building your **** in highsec, even if you count the JF fuel to get your finished product out to nullsec.
They are complaining that doing all that work and sinking all that money still puts them in a situation that's worse than those doing no work and sinking no money into their infrastructure.
Exactly they are stating that it's a hassle and want to nerf hi making things worse for themselves.
Believe me I understand that POS'es are cht with cost of running them but when I ran mine I budgeted my income around the costs.
Nobody doesn't want the hassles but all the benefits.
Lets play a free POS run in null scenario. Nerf hi industry with less slots more cost.
Null sets prices for stuff...but think who always really controls prices? Traders? They will be the true winners in this.
Null controlling is being done now with high end minerals you see where that goes.
Now cost go up with builds of everything cause of increased cost, 75 million Drake? How is a noob gonna see this when they come to eve in a hi cost broke paying hi?
They want to have 7-11's everywhere in null but it's not hi's fault ask CCP to put them there. Besides we see how this works too, the only way to buy stuff in 0.0 is to 1. NPC station however see station campers making this a suicide proposition or 2. Outpost open to everybody, I can tell you how this goes over corporations or alliance holding SOV. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
313
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 06:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:
They want to have 7-11's everywhere in null but it's not hi's fault ask CCP to put them there. Besides we see how this works too, the only way to buy stuff in 0.0 is to 1. NPC station however see station campers making this a suicide proposition or 2. Outpost open to everybody, I can tell you how this goes over to corporations or alliance holding SOV.
I'm not sure why you think either of these is necessary to buy and sell stuff in 0.0. Is there some reason I would want to sell stuff to people who can't dock in my stations already? I mean, they tend to be the ones who also want to shoot me... This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
297
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 06:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:'give everyone in your alliance pos roles' - some highsec idiot
Well then this is why null cant get their cht together cause nobody wants to make it work but want all the benefits.
Nobody can help null till null helps itself but it seems that instead of trying you want to resort to name calling when the light is turned on null to show that many of the vocal folks posting to nerf hi are full of it. |
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2594
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 06:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:'give everyone in your alliance pos roles' - some highsec idiot Well then this is why null cant get their cht together cause nobody wants to make it work but want all the benefits. Nobody can help null till null helps itself but it seems that instead of trying you want to resort to name calling when the light is turned on null to show that many of the vocal folks posting to nerf hi are full of it. you don't get to talk now |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3236
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 06:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Piugattuk wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:'give everyone in your alliance pos roles' - some highsec idiot Well then this is why null cant get their cht together cause nobody wants to make it work but want all the benefits. Nobody can help null till null helps itself but it seems that instead of trying you want to resort to name calling when the light is turned on null to show that many of the vocal folks posting to nerf hi are full of it. you don't get to talk now It's a troll, and this is like a feast for it. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
297
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 06:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
As I address this problem with builds in null being problematic why is it this way?
Other players?
How, just how can you fix this problem, unless you remove PVP in null it will always exist, CCP cannot fix what isn't broken.
Ask, any ideals on how to make it better? NPC stations in every system just like hi sec with all the same slots access to everyone in NPC stations for buying and selling...will players honor non combat pilots bringing goods or molestation of the pilot bring goods be the norm?
Null is not an easy place to live I get it, but ask yourself if it's too much hassle there's an NPC station in hi sec with a CQ all for you. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
314
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 06:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
If you really think that it's that easy, then I invite you to try it in highsec. You've got a great start on your little corp there and its even focused on "Mining, harvesting planets resources, building, mission runs, PVE, shipping, not interested in PVP or pirates nor dumbass fools who like to steal and gank" so I'm sure you can find like-minded players. Go ahead, setup a bunch of POS to build with, and do it.
After a month, imagine all the extra difficulties you'd face in nullsec - fuel logistics. The fact that making them useful means giving potential spies roles. Your haulers getting harassed and shot on the way to or from or at the POS. Then come back and tell me that it's still a good idea.
Or if you want a different approach, let's compare what it takes to build in nullsec vs highsec.
Highsec: Buy minerals in jita. Freighter minerals to build station (this can be largely done AFK). Build. Freighter product back.
Nullsec: Buy minerals in jita. Freighter minerals to build station (this can be largely done AFK). Build compression items. Freighter compression items to jump-out point. Jump freighter compression items to refining station in nullsec. Refine items. Freighter minerals from refine station to build station. Build, and hope you have enough slots since even a build station has far fewer slots than a station in highsec. Finally, if necessary, freighter goods to sale station.
Compared to that, you see why simply buying things outright in jita and shipping them whole is the preferred route.
However, you already seem to be showing signs of crawling up on a cross and whining that the dumb nullsec people can't see the brilliance of your idea and that they're being mean to you, so I think my involvement in this thread ends here. This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2594
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 06:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:As I address this problem with builds in null being problematic why is it this way? www.eve-search.com |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3236
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 06:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
mynnna wrote:If you really think that it's that easy, then I invite you to try it in highsec. You've got a great start on your little corp there and its even focused on "Mining, harvesting planets resources, building, mission runs, PVE, shipping, not interested in PVP or pirates nor dumbass fools who like to steal and gank" so I'm sure you can find like-minded players. Go ahead, setup a bunch of POS to build with, and do it.
After a month, imagine all the extra difficulties you'd face in nullsec - fuel logistics. The fact that making them useful means giving potential spies roles. Your haulers getting harassed and shot on the way to or from or at the POS. Then come back and tell me that it's still a good idea Or what about some people just wardec the corp and camp it into a station somewhere.
Seeing what happened to BL, a good representation of what to expect. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3236
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 06:24:00 -
[27] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Piugattuk wrote:As I address this problem with builds in null being problematic why is it this way? www.eve-search.com It's because you're a moron. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2431
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 06:25:00 -
[28] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:Well then this is why null cant get their cht together cause nobody wants to make it work but want all the benefits.
What benefits? The "benefit" of being able to sit trillions of ISK worth of POSes and POS modules and Blueprints (not every outpost has a station, and outposts do not have HS's 20+ offices per station) in harms way in order to reap the "benefit" of paying 35k ISK/hr more than HS pays for the same capacity that they get cost free and risk free and effort free? This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Hannah Flex
laissez-faire economics
109
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 06:27:00 -
[29] - Quote
He does have a p amazing bio and corp description |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
297
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 06:32:00 -
[30] - Quote
Which is why I am all for supersize roids in null, 100% refine absolutely yes, and you bring up a good point no fuel costs for JF I agree it's something that CCP should remove from JF cause it's already a dangerous trip.
I wish CCP would give JF the ability to jump directly into trade hubs then directly back from the system they came from...but then pirates in low will get upset.
Im all for improvement in null keep ideals going. |
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