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bigboy boss
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 21:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Looking at the new balance notes and what they've done with the T1 cruisers I believe that CCP is going to make minmatar the "crap" race again. Retribution for being good for so long.
Why do I think this way? Well leme point out some things that are bothering me..
The T1 balancing of the cruisers was so good, I loved it. However.. I noticed that minmatar was significantly weaker than before. The rupture is no longer amazing, it is mearly okay... The stabber only goes fast, and the bellicose is meh. The only ship I think that is well balanced from minmatar T1 cruisers is the scythe. And its a support vessel.
Looking at the new battlecruiser balances I noticed that the already nerfed hurricane is getting yet another nerf.. Personally I never thought the hurricane was "OP", just very overrated. Its a wonderful ship to fly, one of my favorites... From the looks of it, not only did they already nerf the powergrid... but it is also losing a highslot, getting a weaker capacitor, becoming heavier, more signature radius, less cargo capacity.
Now I don't know much, but I think the hurricane is not going to be worth flying compared to the massively buffed other BCs. But wait... Wasn't the cyclone gaining some popularity with ASBs? They ruined that too. It is becoming a missile boat with 5 missile slots, two gun slots, and a single damage bonus to missiles. Sounds pretty worthless. Will the cyclone ever NOT suck?
If hurricane is so weak where am I going to use medium autocannons now? I don't have any missile skills for the terrible cyclone... Does that mean all my training into gunnery goes to waste because CCP wants to split my race of ships into half missile boat half autocannon? The Typhoon is becoming a full missile ship, the claymore is going to become a missile ship, by this design structure they are using... I expect them to make many more minmatar ships into missile ships. And that means I (and many other minmatar pilots) cannot use these ships until we pour all of our training into missiles!
The only thing minmatar had going for them was their sub-BS ships, besides the maelstrom the other BS aren't that good... Their capitals are also pretty terrible.
tl;dr: Whats the deal CCP? I know minmatar were "winmatar" for a while, but that doesn't mean they should be **** now. Balance is not punishing one race for being good by nerfing them. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile.
962
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 22:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'll agree with this. I'm in FW and a Tristan will easily brawl down two rifters in a 1v2 fight. They are that bad. The Moa, Vexor, and Maller Combat Cruisers all have configurations that approach 50k EHP and 500 DPS with short range ammo. The Rupture struggles at 43k EHP and subpar DPS. The Rupture's speed advantage is negligible. |
Arkenai Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 22:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Minmatar are not all '****' because not all of their ships are significantly more effective than the other races.
There are still a number of good Minmatar ships. The stabber is a nice ship, and the rupture can still fight decently enough, even if not quite as good as the others. The cyclone was gaining popularity with the ASBs because it took advantage of an already very powerful module.
It's not like Minmatar will be the only ones with two weapon systems. If you looked at the other races instead of just looking at Minmatar then you'd see that Amarr split SP between lasers and drones, Caldari between missiles and hybrids, and Gallente between hybrids and drones.
When you're looking at the Cyclone, you're not looking at it properly either. It has some decent bonuses and two utility highs is similar to what the hurricane has pre-rebalance.
Also: "The only thing minmatar had going for them was their sub-BS ships" is hardly insignificant. The vast majority of the game is subcap warfare. |
bigboy boss
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 22:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Arkenai Wyrnspire wrote:Minmatar are not all '****' because not all of their ships are significantly more effective than the other races.
There are still a number of good Minmatar ships. The stabber is a nice ship, and the rupture can still fight decently enough, even if not quite as good as the others. The cyclone was gaining popularity with the ASBs because it took advantage of an already very powerful module.
It's not like Minmatar will be the only ones with two weapon systems. If you looked at the other races instead of just looking at Minmatar then you'd see that Amarr split SP between lasers and drones, Caldari between missiles and hybrids, and Gallente between hybrids and drones.
When you're looking at the Cyclone, you're not looking at it properly either. It has some decent bonuses and two utility highs is similar to what the hurricane has pre-rebalance.
Also: "The only thing minmatar had going for them was their sub-BS ships" is hardly insignificant. The vast majority of the game is subcap warfare.
Stabber isn't good, the rupture is weak compared to its counterparts, I consider the new cyclone a nerf... Even you said it was only taking "advantage of an already very powerful module".
With the ASB nerf and the upcoming cyclone nerf... I think the ship is completely worthless.
Drones do not count as a separate weapon system because they are used on 90% of the ships in the game. They are universally trained across all races. But something like missiles... isn't.
Caldari might be split between hybrid and missile... but they aren't split between armor and shield like minmatar are. Almost all caldari ships are shield tankers with the exception of the scorp.
"Also: The only thing minmatar had going for them was their sub-BS ships" is hardly insignificant. The vast majority of the game is subcap warfare."
I never said it was insignificant. But I think you meant to say significant... Then I would disagree with you, again.
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Arkenai Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 22:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
bigboy boss wrote:
"Also: The only thing minmatar had going for them was their sub-BS ships" is hardly insignificant. The vast majority of the game is subcap warfare."
Just because you can't fly a capital ship doesn't mean that they don't matter.
I didn't say they didn't matter. I said that the majority of the game is subcap warfare, which remains correct.
The Cyclone is radically different - wait and see how it performs before bashing on it. EFT warrioring yields decent statistics for it. The ASB remains powerful despite the nerf as well.
If drones do not count as a weapon system, what do you think of ships such as the Ishtar, Gila, or the Dominix and Rattlesnake? Are they weak ships because they don't have good turrets and launchers?
I agree that there is a lot of different stuff to train into in terms of tank as well as weapons for the Minmatar, though. There isn't much that can be done about that.
Minmatar ships remain fast. Do not discount the advantages of speed on ships such as the Stabber, especially with the large falloff of ACs.
The Rupture and Rifter are subpar, though. The Hurricane nerfs haven't fully gone through yet, so as with the Cyclone wait and see. |
bigboy boss
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 23:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Arkenai Wyrnspire wrote:bigboy boss wrote:
"Also: The only thing minmatar had going for them was their sub-BS ships" is hardly insignificant. The vast majority of the game is subcap warfare."
Just because you can't fly a capital ship doesn't mean that they don't matter.
I didn't say they didn't matter. I said that the majority of the game is subcap warfare, which remains correct. The Cyclone is radically different - wait and see how it performs before bashing on it. EFT warrioring yields decent statistics for it. The ASB remains powerful despite the nerf as well. If drones do not count as a weapon system, what do you think of ships such as the Ishtar, Gila, or the Dominix and Rattlesnake? Are they weak ships because they don't have good turrets and launchers? I agree that there is a lot of different stuff to train into in terms of tank as well as weapons for the Minmatar, though. There isn't much that can be done about that. Minmatar ships remain fast. Do not discount the advantages of speed on ships such as the Stabber, especially with the large falloff of ACs. The Rupture and Rifter are subpar, though. The Hurricane nerfs haven't fully gone through yet, so as with the Cyclone wait and see.
Theres no need to wait and see if the cyclone is going to be bad or not. Anybody with half a brain can tell its going to be bad.
Rattlesnake is probably the worst pirate faction battleship, the Gila isn't anything amazing, the domi is most useful as a neut boat, but the ishtar is alright. Big deal. Everybody trains drones, just because a few ships get bonuses to drones doesn't make it the same as having to skill up an entirely different weapon system because half of the ships you knew as gunboats are turning into missile boats.
For the last time, the stabber is terrible. All it does is go fast. It's DPS is already terrible.. and you say to use it at fall off? Thats like 100 dps! Lol.
Shield Omen, HAM caracal, and Rail thorax POOP on a kiting stabber. POOP! |
Name Family Name
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
116
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 23:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
bigboy boss wrote: If hurricane is so weak where am I going to use medium autocannons now?
A Cynabal?
Seriously though, I've been flying Minmatar ships almost exclusively for the last three years myself, simply because whenever I tried to fit something Sub-BS from another race (two of my characters are fully cross-skilled accross 4 races), the Minmatar option was flat out better (and I refuse to fly Drakes or Tengus).
I personally told people to just train for shields, projectiles and Minmatar if they want to win Eve
Minmatar had always been split weapons, it's just that people forgot about that because CCP ridiculously overpowered projectiles when changing their ammo types and tracking enhancers at the same time and thus, I guess most of the newer Minmatar-only pilots didn't even know their ships had launcher hardpoints.
Checking them out, I must say that I'm looking forward to fly a nanoed HAM-Cyclone, although I admit the situation must suck a little if you're just skilled for projectile Minmatar fits.
Overall the new ones are fine, imho - they're still the fastest race, so they determine the rules of engagement. That in itself is a big enough advantage to make drawbacks in other areas a necessity. |
Arkenai Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
2
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 23:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
bigboy boss wrote:
You do know that your DPS goes much lower at fall off... Right?
You do know that autocannons fight in falloff... Right?
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bigboy boss
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 23:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Name Family Name wrote:bigboy boss wrote: If hurricane is so weak where am I going to use medium autocannons now?
A Cynabal? Seriously though, I've been flying Minmatar ships almost exclusively for the last three years myself, simply because whenever I tried to fit something Sub-BS from another race (two of my characters are fully cross-skilled accross 4 races), the Minmatar option was flat out better (and I refuse to fly Drakes or Tengus). I personally told people to just train for shields, projectiles and Minmatar if they want to win Eve Minmatar had always been split weapons, it's just that people forgot about that because CCP ridiculously overpowered projectiles when changing their ammo types and tracking enhancers at the same time and thus, I guess most of the newer Minmatar-only pilots didn't even know their ships had launcher hardpoints. Checking them out, I must say that I'm looking forward to fly a nanoed HAM-Cyclone, although I admit the situation must suck a little if you're just skilled for projectile Minmatar fits. Overall the new ones are fine, imho - they're still the fastest race, so they determine the rules of engagement. That in itself is a big enough advantage to make drawbacks in other areas a necessity.
So the only ship I can use my medium autocannons is a pirate faction (not even minmatar) crusier that costs something like 300mil just for the hull? k.
The ham cyclone does the exact same missile DPS as a caracal. The funny thing is, a caracal can probably kill the cyclone by kiting it because of superior range and speed.
Speed alone doesn't matter. Before minmatar had speed and DPS, thats what made them deadly. But now we have a stabber that can barely do 100 dps at kiting range. Meh. |
Arkenai Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
3
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 23:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
bigboy boss wrote:Arkenai Wyrnspire wrote:bigboy boss wrote:
You do know that your DPS goes much lower at fall off... Right?
You do know that autocannons fight in falloff... Right? Perfect example of strawman argument. This just shows how weak your original position was.
Perfect example of evading a point you can't answer.
"The ham cyclone does the exact same missile DPS as a caracal. The funny thing is, a caracal can probably kill the cyclone by kiting it because of superior range and speed." The tank on the Cyclone is vastly superior. ASBs remain strong modules. You also just pointed out that the Cyclone could be kited with 'superior range and speed'. Stabber.
Drones are clearly a proper weapon system when the majority of a ship's damage output comes from them. Thus, every race has a split weapons system. Minmatar pilots have trained primarily projectiles, so what? Train another weapon system like the other races. |
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bigboy boss
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 23:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
Arkenai Wyrnspire wrote:bigboy boss wrote:Arkenai Wyrnspire wrote:bigboy boss wrote:
You do know that your DPS goes much lower at fall off... Right?
You do know that autocannons fight in falloff... Right? Perfect example of strawman argument. This just shows how weak your original position was. Perfect example of evading a point you can't answer. "The ham cyclone does the exact same missile DPS as a caracal. The funny thing is, a caracal can probably kill the cyclone by kiting it because of superior range and speed." The tank on the Cyclone is vastly superior. ASBs remain strong modules. You also just pointed out that the Cyclone could be kited with 'superior range and speed'. Stabber. Drones are clearly a proper weapon system when the majority of a ship's damage output comes from them. Thus, every race has a split weapons system. Minmatar pilots have trained primarily projectiles, so what? Train another weapon system like the other races.
Either troll or daft. |
Arkenai Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
3
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 23:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
bigboy boss wrote: Either troll or daft.
So instead of answering a point you discount it as a 'troll'? |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
627
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 23:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
I don't see Winmatards ditching their boats for the new and improved Thorax en mass. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
73
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 00:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
Nerf winmatar
...no seriously Oderint Dum Metuant |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
1295
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 00:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
Yeah this started back with frig changes making the rifter obsolete. The cane changes are making it worse than obsolete which is a damn same. The min BSs have never been good, cruisers are fine, T2 lineup is still good (yet to be balanced ofc). the trend definitely has been to sh*t on minmatar these past 6 months tho. |
Arkenai Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
5
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 00:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Yeah this started back with frig changes making the rifter obsolete. The cane changes are making it worse than obsolete which is a damn same. The min BSs have never been good, cruisers are fine, T2 lineup is still good (yet to be balanced ofc). the trend definitely has been to sh*t on minmatar these past 6 months tho.
The Rifter lost out in the rebalancing, true. Some others did not, however, for example the Slasher, which is a very nice frigate. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2726
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 00:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Yeah this started back with frig changes making the rifter obsolete. The cane changes are making it worse than obsolete which is a damn same. The min BSs have never been good, cruisers are fine, T2 lineup is still good (yet to be balanced ofc). the trend definitely has been to sh*t on minmatar these past 6 months tho.
While I agree that Minmatar is no longer as stand-out win as they used to be, I have to disagree that the Cane changes are 'worse than obsolete'. It's not even remotely the worst BC after the changes. Or even on the worst side of it.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam A Point In Space
549
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 00:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
bigboy boss wrote:Balance is not punishing one race for being good by nerfing them.
Yes it is. Thats why it's call balancing. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
455
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 00:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
bigboy boss wrote:Looking at the new balance notes and what they've done with the T1 cruisers I believe that CCP is going to make minmatar the "crap" race again. Retribution for being good for so long.
Why do I think this way? Well leme point out some things that are bothering me..
The T1 balancing of the cruisers was so good, I loved it. However.. I noticed that minmatar was significantly weaker than before. The rupture is no longer amazing, it is mearly okay... The stabber only goes fast, and the bellicose is meh. The only ship I think that is well balanced from minmatar T1 cruisers is the scythe. And its a support vessel.
Looking at the new battlecruiser balances I noticed that the already nerfed hurricane is getting yet another nerf.. Personally I never thought the hurricane was "OP", just very overrated. Its a wonderful ship to fly, one of my favorites... From the looks of it, not only did they already nerf the powergrid... but it is also losing a highslot, getting a weaker capacitor, becoming heavier, more signature radius, less cargo capacity.
Now I don't know much, but I think the hurricane is not going to be worth flying compared to the massively buffed other BCs. But wait... Wasn't the cyclone gaining some popularity with ASBs? They ruined that too. It is becoming a missile boat with 5 missile slots, two gun slots, and a single damage bonus to missiles. Sounds pretty worthless. Will the cyclone ever NOT suck?
If hurricane is so weak where am I going to use medium autocannons now? I don't have any missile skills for the terrible cyclone... Does that mean all my training into gunnery goes to waste because CCP wants to split my race of ships into half missile boat half autocannon? The Typhoon is becoming a full missile ship, the claymore is going to become a missile ship, by this design structure they are using... I expect them to make many more minmatar ships into missile ships. And that means I (and many other minmatar pilots) cannot use these ships until we pour all of our training into missiles!
The only thing minmatar had going for them was their sub-BS ships, besides the maelstrom the other BS aren't that good... Their capitals are also pretty terrible.
tl;dr: Whats the deal CCP? I know minmatar were "winmatar" for a while, but that doesn't mean they should be **** now. Balance is not punishing one race for being good by nerfing them.
Breacher = win Slasher = decent Thrasher = win Talwar = decent Rupture = decent Bellicose = win Cyclone = decent Hurricane = good
As opposed too..
Punisher = **** tormentor = decent Coercer = good Dragoon = decent Maller = **** (Being semi competent at ab cruiser gangs does not count) Omen = **** Proph = brick Harb = decent
The **** are you complaining about?
|
Name Family Name
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
116
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 00:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Yeah this started back with frig changes making the rifter obsolete. The cane changes are making it worse than obsolete which is a damn same. The min BSs have never been good, cruisers are fine, T2 lineup is still good (yet to be balanced ofc). the trend definitely has been to sh*t on minmatar these past 6 months tho.
I kind of agree the rifter needs a little finetuning, but calling it obsolete is an exageration. It just went from being the only viable T1 frig since the games existance to a mediocre one.
I completely disagree on the Cane. Most fits just need minor modifications to keep it viable and it was flat out obsoleting any cruiser in Battlecruisers online for far too long.
All in all, I think CCP just dropped the background perspective when it comes to ship-balancing. E.g. Minmatar exceled in small, cheap ships as you'd expect from slave-rebels specialicing in Guerilla tactics, whereas anything Amarr exorbitantly sucked sub-BS, as you'd expect from a traditionally large, rich empire.
Since the background was dropped in all other areas, it's only logical they drop it when it comes to ship balance.
The impression there was a trend for Mins being shat upon during the last months just results from the fact that they have been vastly overpowered in low-cost ships and these were the classes that were rebalanced.
They deserve even some more brown, warm love when it comes to Projectiles in combination with TE's, fitting requirements, sig radius, as well as a review of armor vs. shield tanking.
Maybe when CCP do all the latter, I'll consider flying something else again. |
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yer mammy
Derp Inc
33
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 00:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
it is annoying to see what they're doing to some of these ships, but you also can't call yourself a true minmatar pilot without having both gunnery and missile skills. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
457
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 01:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
Name Family Name wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Yeah this started back with frig changes making the rifter obsolete. The cane changes are making it worse than obsolete which is a damn same. The min BSs have never been good, cruisers are fine, T2 lineup is still good (yet to be balanced ofc). the trend definitely has been to sh*t on minmatar these past 6 months tho. I kind of agree the rifter needs a little finetuning, but calling it obsolete is an exageration. It just went from being the only viable T1 frig since the games existance to a mediocre one. I completely disagree on the Cane. Most fits just need minor modifications to keep it viable and it was flat out obsoleting any cruiser in Battlecruisers online for far too long. All in all, I think CCP just dropped the background perspective when it comes to ship-balancing. E.g. Minmatar exceled in small, cheap ships as you'd expect from slave-rebels specialicing in Guerilla tactics, whereas anything Amarr exorbitantly sucked sub-BS, as you'd expect from a traditionally large, rich empire. Since the background was dropped in all other areas, it's only logical they drop it when it comes to ship balance. The impression there was a trend for Mins being shat upon during the last months just results from the fact that they have been vastly overpowered in low-cost ships and these were the classes that were rebalanced. They deserve even some more brown, warm love when it comes to Projectiles in combination with TE's, fitting requirements, sig radius, as well as a review of armor vs. shield tanking. Maybe when CCP do all the latter, I'll consider flying something else again.
1. Gameplay and RP fluff don't mix.. Amarr being a rich empire is a terrible reason for their sub-bs's being bad
2. The Rifter is ****, its one of four t1 frigs i have never died to while being the one out of those four i have fought the most often.
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Moonasha
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
115
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 02:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
Excuse me.. minmatar seem worse off now because they were absolutely the goto race for pvp. Just look at the versatility of the god damn cane. And the rupture. QQ. Try flying amarr and being limited to 2 or 3 ships pre changes. |
Maeltstome
Mentally Assured Destruction
272
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 02:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
Read lots of interesting stuff. Someone claimed the omen was bad. Interesting. i'd rate it the best attack cruiser right now, period. Better projected damage than a stabber and more HP than a thorax, i don't see what's bad about it. It's speed might be 'slow' - but it's still on par with the thorax and better than the caracal due to low-slot usage. Plus "DAT DRONE BAY".
The rifter is bad. Worst frigate in the game. Has no role, no benefits, no dps, no tank, no drones, no speed.
Hurricane is becoming the hur-dur-icane. It's going to have lower dps, tank, speed and agility that almost every other BC. I don't understand why balance means 'nerf' The cane and drake where shining example of the BC category. So they are basically nerfing instead of buffing, which is pointless.
Stabber btw is awful. Truly awful. The rupture is out-brawled and out-kited by a thorax. Don't even think about using a vexor against it, cause it;s laughable. The maller btw has potential, but it doesn't fit well into the current meta of kiting but has the benefits of laser projection, even if it is a brick.
Basically the minmatar line-up is being turned on its head. it's ships are becoming slower and they universally are having their bonused damage slots made 1 less than another races equivalent. And that it's, they are become a mid-ground race. No advantages what so-ever over any 1 race. In reply to the dev blog statement about the cyclone: If you are having trouble distinguishing the cyclone from the drake its because you are awful at Eve. it's already completely different from it and useful. What you are doing now is making it super awful as opposed to 'sub-par but can ASB lol'
I fly all 4 races and here is my current line-up of ships slown:
Talos: Best Tier3 BC for anything other than 50-100km BLAP. I love it. Dominix: Superb. DDA's revolutionised this ship. Vagabond: I fly it when im too lazy to scout myself but don't want to die to a blob. It can't kill anything though without links and a faction point. Sometimes things follow me off-gate and forget to warp away. Taranis: I hated it for ages, but recently re-discovered why i loved it for years. Malediction: Best interceptor tackler when under 5km Tornado: I use it for trolling people who station camp me. 1-shotting frigs though is about as good as it gets outside of large fleets. Vexor: Supreme cruiser. Thorax: Will use it when my vexor FINALLY dies. Sleipnir: Utter monster of a ship. CCP, make all minnie ships like this and i'll do hideously enjoyable things to you. Loki: I refuse to buy one a new one. Worst tank, dps and EW of all Strat cruisers. Linked faction proteus is a terrifying things. Loki is 'meh'. Prophecy: It's a better AC boat than the cyclone. It also fits amazingly into the current meta. Drake: This ship is just hard to beat in most situations. I hate it. But i can't find anything better than it. Slicer: It's a crusader, but not terrible.
Ships i will never touch again: Stabber. Rifter. Rupture.
Ship i will be flying when i need replacements: Megathron, Omen/Zealot, Legion,
TL;DR
Minmatar are going the way of the dinosaur. When people finally undock and stop chasing their targets 200km off-gate they will realise why you don't fly them. |
Maeltstome
Mentally Assured Destruction
272
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 02:27:00 -
[25] - Quote
Moonasha wrote:Excuse me.. minmatar seem worse off now because they were absolutely the goto race for pvp. Just look at the versatility of the god damn cane. And the rupture. QQ. Try flying amarr and being limited to 2 or 3 ships pre changes.
Cane is till ok. It's not a death monster like most people make out though.
The rupture is awful. Just try and find a rupture fit that isn't mediocre. |
bigboy boss
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 02:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:bigboy boss wrote:Looking at the new balance notes and what they've done with the T1 cruisers I believe that CCP is going to make minmatar the "crap" race again. Retribution for being good for so long.
Why do I think this way? Well leme point out some things that are bothering me..
The T1 balancing of the cruisers was so good, I loved it. However.. I noticed that minmatar was significantly weaker than before. The rupture is no longer amazing, it is mearly okay... The stabber only goes fast, and the bellicose is meh. The only ship I think that is well balanced from minmatar T1 cruisers is the scythe. And its a support vessel.
Looking at the new battlecruiser balances I noticed that the already nerfed hurricane is getting yet another nerf.. Personally I never thought the hurricane was "OP", just very overrated. Its a wonderful ship to fly, one of my favorites... From the looks of it, not only did they already nerf the powergrid... but it is also losing a highslot, getting a weaker capacitor, becoming heavier, more signature radius, less cargo capacity.
Now I don't know much, but I think the hurricane is not going to be worth flying compared to the massively buffed other BCs. But wait... Wasn't the cyclone gaining some popularity with ASBs? They ruined that too. It is becoming a missile boat with 5 missile slots, two gun slots, and a single damage bonus to missiles. Sounds pretty worthless. Will the cyclone ever NOT suck?
If hurricane is so weak where am I going to use medium autocannons now? I don't have any missile skills for the terrible cyclone... Does that mean all my training into gunnery goes to waste because CCP wants to split my race of ships into half missile boat half autocannon? The Typhoon is becoming a full missile ship, the claymore is going to become a missile ship, by this design structure they are using... I expect them to make many more minmatar ships into missile ships. And that means I (and many other minmatar pilots) cannot use these ships until we pour all of our training into missiles!
The only thing minmatar had going for them was their sub-BS ships, besides the maelstrom the other BS aren't that good... Their capitals are also pretty terrible.
tl;dr: Whats the deal CCP? I know minmatar were "winmatar" for a while, but that doesn't mean they should be **** now. Balance is not punishing one race for being good by nerfing them. Breacher = win Slasher = decent Thrasher = win Talwar = decent Rupture = decent Bellicose = win Cyclone = decent Hurricane = good As opposed too.. Punisher = **** tormentor = decent Coercer = good Dragoon = decent Maller = **** (Being semi competent at ab cruiser gangs does not count) Omen = **** Proph = brick Harb = decent The **** are you complaining about? EDIT: As to the nerfs to the cane.. Have you ever tried to fit a harbinger? like at all? Cane is still a LOT easier to fit, and its faster and it can actually hit stuff thats close up. LTP
Did you just call the Omen "****"? You've got no idea what you are talking about.
With the coming changes the prophecy will be a monster. Actually try to think so you realize that we are talking about the future updates here and not about the current state of balance. I know its hard but try.
And the harbinger is a beast atm, I don't know what you are talking about.
Arkenai Wyrnspire wrote:bigboy boss wrote: Either troll or daft.
So instead of answering a point you discount it as a 'troll'?
Yep, you fail to realize how a stabber with anemic DPS isn't worth even mentioning yet you keep yelling that "SPEED AND KITE = WIN!!!!111" Not only does the stabber have **** poor DPS, in falloff its doing even less than the already terrible DPS it gets on paper. So the fact that you think a stabber is a ship worth using makes you a troll or daft.
You consider drones to be a weapon system? Well minmatar have drones too, so I guess minmatar have to train THREE weapon systems now... plus armor and shields. So according to you minmatar need to train to do everything, and its okay that they have subpar ships even though their SP needs to be double/triple of their adversaries.
Right... Get real.
sabre906 wrote:I don't see Winmatards ditching their boats for the new and improved Thorax en mass.
I would if I had the right SP... The thorax is an AMAZING ship right now.
The problem is CCP isn't balancing, they are just making one race the "win butan" all over again. And thats a problem. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2727
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Posted - 2013.01.21 02:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote: Hurricane is becoming the hur-dur-icane. It's going to have lower dps, tank, speed and agility that almost every other BC. I don't understand why balance means 'nerf' The cane and drake where shining example of the BC category. So they are basically nerfing instead of buffing, which is pointless.
The Hurricane is not being noticeably nerfed.
Quote: Stabber btw is awful. Truly awful. The rupture is out-brawled and out-kited by a thorax. Don't even think about using a vexor against it, cause it;s laughable. The maller btw has potential, but it doesn't fit well into the current meta of kiting but has the benefits of laser projection, even if it is a brick.
Saying the Rupture is out brawled by the Thorax might make some sense, but saying it's out-kited is just nonsense.
Quote:Minmatar are going the way of the dinosaur. When people finally undock and stop chasing their targets 200km off-gate they will realise why you don't fly them.
There's nothing really wrong with Minmatar ships today. There's just nothing really great about them either.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2727
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 02:41:00 -
[28] - Quote
bigboy boss wrote: And the harbinger is a beast atm, I don't know what you are talking about.
What the **** are you talking about? The only BC currently worse than the Binger is the Prophecy. Post nerf, it is beyond question the worst BC. You should get your head examined if you think the Cane is bad and the Binger is "a beast".
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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bigboy boss
State War Academy Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.01.21 02:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:
The Hurricane is not being noticeably nerfed.
Wrong, Its been nerfed and its being nerfed again soon.
Liang Nuren wrote: Saying the Rupture is out brawled by the Thorax might make some sense, but saying it's out-kited is just nonsense.
Wrong again, go look at the ship stats and realize how wrong you are. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2727
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 02:45:00 -
[30] - Quote
bigboy boss wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:
The Hurricane is not being noticeably nerfed.
Wrong, Its been nerfed and its being nerfed again soon. Liang Nuren wrote: Saying the Rupture is out brawled by the Thorax might make some sense, but saying it's out-kited is just nonsense.
Wrong again, go look at the ship stats and realize how wrong you are.
I am looking at the ship stats.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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