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Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
167
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Posted - 2013.01.22 01:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
So there is a hostile frigate gang, 3 T1 frigs and one little Griffin. We only have 2 players, so I decide to fly 2 Griffins. We wipe the floor with them, as always. (yes, they were just minmatar militia, not real pvpers )
But then suddenly ECM tears?!
[01:32:17] Domanique Altares > Would have been cool to actually fight you, Cynthia. Too bad you're a *****, though.
I know that most players can not comprehend sensor strength implants, and just refuse to fit ECCM, but complaining about ECM when you bring it first to field? |
Dread Operative
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
108
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Posted - 2013.01.22 02:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:So there is a hostile frigate gang, 3 T1 frigs and one little Griffin. We only have 2 players, so I decide to fly 2 Griffins. We wipe the floor with them, as always. (yes, they were just minmatar militia, not real pvpers ) But then suddenly ECM tears?! [01:32:17] Domanique Altares > Would have been cool to actually fight you, Cynthia. Too bad you're a *****, though. I know that most players can not comprehend sensor strength implants, and just refuse to fit ECCM, but complaining about ECM when you bring it first to field?
IMHO t1 frig's slot layout don't really give you on option to put ECCM on their without extremely crippling your fit. And lesbihonest here, sensor strength implants and skills don't add a lot of sensor strength to frigs. Im not around me eft to confirm. Now that being said, do you run sensor strength implants and have ECCM on your frigs? And would you be upset if you were permajammed the whole fight? I would be. |
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
167
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Posted - 2013.01.22 02:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Dread Operative wrote:Cynthia Nezmor wrote:So there is a hostile frigate gang, 3 T1 frigs and one little Griffin. We only have 2 players, so I decide to fly 2 Griffins. We wipe the floor with them, as always. (yes, they were just minmatar militia, not real pvpers ) But then suddenly ECM tears?! [01:32:17] Domanique Altares > Would have been cool to actually fight you, Cynthia. Too bad you're a *****, though. I know that most players can not comprehend sensor strength implants, and just refuse to fit ECCM, but complaining about ECM when you bring it first to field? IMHO t1 frig's slot layout don't really give you on option to put ECCM on their without extremely crippling your fit. And lesbihonest here, sensor strength implants and skills don't add a lot of sensor strength to frigs. Im not around me eft to confirm. Now that being said, do you run sensor strength implants and have ECCM on your frigs? And would you be upset if you were permajammed the whole fight? I would be.
Well, I am a good ECM pilot, it does not happen to me. Also yes, as a militia pilot of course i run Talons and Grails most of the time. |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
223
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Posted - 2013.01.22 02:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ironically posting in an ironic thread. |
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
169
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Posted - 2013.01.22 02:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:Ironically posting in an ironic thread.
Seriously replying to a serious reply. Thank you for your help! |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
223
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Posted - 2013.01.22 02:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'm always glad to help people worse off than me. |
Dread Operative
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
108
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Posted - 2013.01.22 02:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:Dread Operative wrote:Cynthia Nezmor wrote:So there is a hostile frigate gang, 3 T1 frigs and one little Griffin. We only have 2 players, so I decide to fly 2 Griffins. We wipe the floor with them, as always. (yes, they were just minmatar militia, not real pvpers ) But then suddenly ECM tears?! [01:32:17] Domanique Altares > Would have been cool to actually fight you, Cynthia. Too bad you're a *****, though. I know that most players can not comprehend sensor strength implants, and just refuse to fit ECCM, but complaining about ECM when you bring it first to field? IMHO t1 frig's slot layout don't really give you on option to put ECCM on their without extremely crippling your fit. And lesbihonest here, sensor strength implants and skills don't add a lot of sensor strength to frigs. Im not around me eft to confirm. Now that being said, do you run sensor strength implants and have ECCM on your frigs? And would you be upset if you were permajammed the whole fight? I would be. Well, I am a good ECM pilot, it does not happen to me. Also yes, as a militia pilot of course i run Talons and Grails most of the time. Point is still that THEY wanted to have the fun fight of permajamming our Merlin pilot and ganking her with 3 dps ships.
I must has misread what you said or you misspoke. Because I thought by you deciding what you were going to use against them, that you engaged them, not the other way around.
Also looking back at your lost pods, I don't see any sensor strength implants or ECCM on any of the dessies and bellow that I looked at. You must be really good and just not losing THOSE ships and pods.
And I thought the point was they cried about being permajammed, where 3 dps ships should've won against 2 dps ships, and hat merlin wouldve lost against 3 dps ships whether being jammed or not.
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galenwade
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
150
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Posted - 2013.01.22 03:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:So there is a hostile frigate gang, 3 T1 frigs and one little Griffin. We only have 2 players, so I decide to fly 2 Griffins. We wipe the floor with them, as always. (yes, they were just minmatar militia, not real pvpers ) But then suddenly ECM tears?! [01:32:17] Domanique Altares > Would have been cool to actually fight you, Cynthia. Too bad you're a *****, though. I know that most players can not comprehend sensor strength implants, and just refuse to fit ECCM, but complaining about ECM when you bring it first to field?
To be honest i don't see them complaining about your ECM just you in general
Maybe ask for clarification next time, it is always important to know what is at fault |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
370
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Posted - 2013.01.22 07:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dread Operative wrote:Cynthia Nezmor wrote:So there is a hostile frigate gang, 3 T1 frigs and one little Griffin. We only have 2 players, so I decide to fly 2 Griffins. We wipe the floor with them, as always. (yes, they were just minmatar militia, not real pvpers ) But then suddenly ECM tears?! [01:32:17] Domanique Altares > Would have been cool to actually fight you, Cynthia. Too bad you're a *****, though. I know that most players can not comprehend sensor strength implants, and just refuse to fit ECCM, but complaining about ECM when you bring it first to field? IMHO t1 frig's slot layout don't really give you on option to put ECCM on their without extremely crippling your fit. And lesbihonest here, sensor strength implants and skills don't add a lot of sensor strength to frigs. Im not around me eft to confirm. Now that being said, do you run sensor strength implants and have ECCM on your frigs? And would you be upset if you were permajammed the whole fight? I would be.
take rifter it has sensor strength 8 add low-grade jackal set with omega +7 and read ladar sensor strength compensations skill to lvl5 +3 (with implants)
so your rifters sensor strength has risen from 8 to 18 which is pretty much better than nothing. |
Markius TheShed
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
140
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Posted - 2013.01.22 09:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
I remember fighting Cynthia in Asghed on my own in a SFI and she brought a Omen navy and a Blackbird
Seems your still a one trick pony. **Murientor Tribe** Killing Slavers, Ammatar and Nafantar Traitors since YC107 http://www.defiant-legacy.com/ |
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
1023
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 09:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Why didn't they just warp in their projected ECCM fitted high grade grail-set implanted guardians? |
March rabbit
Aliastra
499
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 10:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote: take rifter it has sensor strength 8 add low-grade jackal set with omega +7 and read ladar sensor strength compensations skill to lvl5 +3 (with implants)
so your rifters sensor strength has risen from 8 to 18 which is pretty much better than nothing.
Edit: approx jamming changes from perma jammed to 50% jammed
i'm not experienced with prices....
but it looks like putting 1-2 billions into POD for reducing getting jammed from perma to 50% in frigate? |
Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
228
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Posted - 2013.01.22 10:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:So there is a hostile frigate gang, 3 T1 frigs and one little Griffin. We only have 2 players, so I decide to fly 2 Griffins. We wipe the floor with them, as always. (yes, they were just minmatar militia, not real pvpers ) But then suddenly ECM tears?! [01:32:17] Domanique Altares > Would have been cool to actually fight you, Cynthia. Too bad you're a *****, though. I know that most players can not comprehend sensor strength implants, and just refuse to fit ECCM, but complaining about ECM when you bring it first to field?
Whow... it is now a reason to pop up a new forum thread just because someone was upset about you in local? Looks like you are really lust for peoples attention like an in heat she-dog. |
Dread Operative
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
108
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 11:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:take rifter it has sensor strength 8 add low-grade jackal set with omega +7 and read ladar sensor strength compensations skill to lvl5 +3 (with implants)
so your rifters sensor strength has risen from 8 to 18 which is pretty much better than nothing.
Edit: approx jamming changes from perma jammed to 50% jammed
With my combat Griffin fit overheated (why wouldnt you?) I was 68% jam chance on Rifter. Not including multiple jams. Either way, the fight would've been bad. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
711
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 11:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
Dread Operative wrote: Now that being said, do you run sensor strength implants and have ECCM on your frigs? I find that even an unbonused sensor integrity link (without mindlink) can make a very real difference without requiring much sacrifice (I always carry one in my Loki/Tengu and swap one of the other links for it if I expect ECM; bringing a Proteus would be overkill if I myself am not going to run a ECM setup but carrying a spare link in your cargo is hardly any effort).
If I see the enemy bring a Falcon/Rook I just get safe until my own Falcon alt is in system.
But I guess you already knew that EVE is a game of alts... I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid. |
Hidden Snake
Genco Fatal Ascension
247
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Posted - 2013.01.22 12:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
ECM is more tear generator then other forms of ewar because target feels more rage coming out of being helpless. Recently I started using damps again and it generates same amount of **** in local. Based on CCPs conflict of interests I propose all who protest agains CCP Fozzie behaviour ad this to your sig.-á HIGH FIVE is LOW FIVE CCP.-á |
Generals4
Liandri Covenant
1705
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 13:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
Well here would be my point: is the real problem the use of an ECM alt or just an alt in general (thus only fighting 2vs1). Because if you think about it, if your opponent goes through the hassle of using an ECM alt than you should go through the hassle of using an ECCM alt. You can't really blame someone for investing in an ECM alt when you could invest in an ECCM alt. -Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
755
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 15:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
serious players want to win and fight no matter what it takes (these are ecm users)
other people play eve to have fun, and these people prefer to make the fight fun and interesting, these are the people who dont use ecm http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
261
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 16:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
Na people don't use ECM for a number of reasons. I am quite serious about Eve but would never use an ECM ship, makes it too easy.
Muad 'dib wrote:serious players want to win and fight no matter what it takes (these are ecm users)
other people play eve to have fun, and these people prefer to make the fight fun and interesting, these are the people who dont use ecm
QCATs is recruiting https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=146180 |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
980
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 17:01:00 -
[20] - Quote
Spur set ftw. |
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fr0gout
Aralis Fangirls Club
9
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Posted - 2013.01.22 19:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
Generals4 wrote:Well here would be my point: is the real problem the use of an ECM alt or just an alt in general (thus only fighting 2vs1). Because if you think about it, if your opponent goes through the hassle of using an ECM alt than you should go through the hassle of using an ECCM alt. You can't really blame someone for investing in an ECM alt when you could invest in an ECCM alt.
That's the problem. ECM is so binary and has a range that encompasses most of a theatre of solo/small gang PvP. There is not many ways to outmanoeuvre an ECM ship on the field once engaged. Unlike other forms of ECM that can be mitigated by positioning and control.
Damps can be mitigated if you get on top of the damp ship, another hostile ship, or you can for example still rep your friends by getting on top of them, and generally speaking you still have an opportunity to position well when damped unless you're facing against Skirmish Boosters, or Minmatar T3s/Recons since if nothing is within scram range of you, you can MWD, and if you get scrammed you can lock and engage that ship.
Tracking Disruptor's can be mitigated by changing position or target, since tracking is relative to traversal. Sure, you might not be able to hit a target orbiting you tightly while you are tracking script disrupted, but you can swap target to someone who is lower traversal, try to pull range, shoot someone further range as they generally have less relative traversal, or shoot a bigger target. and can still use all your electronic warfare modules and remote assistance modules perfectly.
Target Painters can't really be mitigated aside from trying to increase your traversal to lower their effect, but they are shortest range and don't bring any real disruption to your ship aside from reducing your ability to mitigate damage.
With ECM you can't do anything except try to escape from the ECM ships range. Which is effectively 60km+ going into the realms of 120km where it starts dropping off to the point of uselessness, and you will never escape a bonused ECM ships range by burning away from it. ECM basically means you have to either run, or hope you don't get jammed next cycle. Since ECM is absolute as well and prevents any retaliation at all, it also means you're likely going to be scrammed/webbed and even ships which should be punished completely, like a Vagabond 1km from a Brutix, are instead rewarded since they can apply maximum damage.
When I die to other EWAR types it feels much more like my opponents outplayed me or had a strategy that they used effectively such as kiting me with damps or kiting with range scripted TDs, or getting on top of me with tracking scripted TDs etc. There is much more coordination needed to use the other ewar types effectively, and things can go wrong if an opponent can catch you in a bad position i.e. as mentioned you get on top of the damp ship.
I think ECM IS balanced if you look at the big picture, but the way it's balanced is horribly contrived and creates anti-fun for both sides, the scaling on ECM is also terrible. In small gang/solo ECM is the end of the engagement. Period. in Medium gangs ECM is reletively balanced In Large gangs ECM is weak and gets instantly killed.
Also as gangs get smaller, slots become more important, and generally speaking smaller and more mobile ships tend to be used, which have less sensor strength, less slots, and the slots they have tend to be non negotiable so fitting ECCM is very difficult when we're speaking small/solo gangs.
For ECM to be balanced all the specialized ships are absolutely terrible at everything aside from ECM, and the fact that it's a chance based mechanic can mean your 200mil Falcon gets instantly dumpstered 10 seconds into a fight because you got bad rolls, this also makes ECM ships themselves very binary, they bring almost nothing else to a fleet aside from ECM. And of course, on the same side of things, a guy can be completely out of a fight unable to do a single thing. |
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
176
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Posted - 2013.01.22 21:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
ECM is binary, when my 200 mil ship has a chance to simply get unlucky and die to a t1 cruiser? As opposed to Pilgrim that will always slaughter my Maller? Rapier or Arazu that will always catch my Caracal? Nobody dies just because a Falcon decloaks. ECM is nerfed too much, but it is still not the topic of this thread.
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Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
176
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Posted - 2013.01.22 21:36:00 -
[23] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:Dread Operative wrote: Now that being said, do you run sensor strength implants and have ECCM on your frigs? I find that even an unbonused sensor integrity link (without mindlink) can make a very real difference without requiring much sacrifice (I always carry one in my Loki/Tengu and swap one of the other links for it if I expect ECM; bringing a Proteus would be overkill if I myself am not going to run a ECM setup but carrying a spare link in your cargo is hardly any effort). If I see the enemy bring a Falcon/Rook I just get safe until my own Falcon alt is in system. But I guess you already knew that EVE is a game of alts...
Spending 100 mil on lg spurs/jackals/grails/talons is already a huge sacrifice for the crybabies. It can only be done once a year. |
Dread Operative
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
109
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Posted - 2013.01.23 00:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:ECM is nerfed too much, but it is still not the topic of this thread.
Im pretty confused on that the topic of the thread is actually? Even with spurs and max skills there was a 60ish% chance of being jammed. Seeing there was two of you and you were fitted racial ecm to what they had, since we've established you engaged them, that was 6 racial jammers for 4 targets. You won a fight you shouldn't have because of it. I see the point of this thread is to boost your own ego. Now I am not saying boo you used ECM, but you coming on here bragging and complaining about being disliked for it is asinine and goes hand in hand with a snaked loki linked 100mn Tengggu bragging about killing 2 frigs and 3 dessies. |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1956
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Posted - 2013.01.23 02:30:00 -
[25] - Quote
As the thread has gone into trolling, I am locking it.
Thread closed. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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