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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Sarah Flinnley
Cannabis Incorporated
0
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Posted - 2013.01.23 19:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
The question is pretty simple. When pilots die outside of their pods do they die or wake up in their next clone? I've read contradicting pieces with regards to this, sometimes in the same piece of fiction. So what's the 'official' word? |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
1226
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Posted - 2013.01.23 19:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sarah Flinnley wrote:The question is pretty simple. When pilots die outside of their pods do they die or wake up in their next clone? I've read contradicting pieces with regards to this, sometimes in the same piece of fiction. So what's the 'official' word?
Technically you die.
The concept of softcloning (IE having a regular, bog standard clone with a copy of your mind in it, but kept in stasis that you update every once in a while, as opposed to "at the moment of death") was created to deal with the situation of RPers getting themselves into RP out of the pod and getting killed during it. It makes sense, in my opinion, since cloning has been around a long time as a way to avoid death if you have the money or power to make it happen, even pre-capsuleer. It is, however, of dubious cannon.
It has some major downsides, though, if you do use them.
First off, the technology is relatively poor. Errors can happen, and there is no way to know until you activate the soft clone.
It is not an up to date mindmap. It only goes back so far as you last got it updated, which is an expensive and time consuming process. This means you will be missing time, and you wont know what happened in between the last update and the time you woke up. |
Saul Elsyn
Sturmvogel Squadron
47
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Posted - 2013.01.23 20:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yeah, errors happen... there was that whole thing with the clone in Empyrean Age that didn't remember anything. Of course he wasn't exactly woken up by professional medical personnel either... he was woken up to be killed (which is kind of odd but eh).
Soft cloning is like having a 'restore' point if you will... I'd think if you were going to do that, then you'd need to regularly update it and probably write a personal log of some sort to tell yourself how you screwed up and died. |
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CCP Eterne
C C P C C P Alliance
1932
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Posted - 2013.01.23 22:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
If you die outside of the capsule, you are dead.
The existence of soft cloning is currently a bit of a murky point in our PF. It was there, maybe, in places, but might not have been. It got put into a Mercury article I wrote back before I was hired, but eventually got removed... It's a bit debatable if it actually fits in our fiction or not. Community Representative GÇ+ EVE Illuminati GÇ+ Fiction Adept
@CCP_Eterne GÇ+ @EVE_LiveEvents |
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Prootje
LazyBoyz Band of Recreational Flyers Intrepid Crossing
6
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Posted - 2013.01.23 22:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
There is a passage in the Empyrean Age in which a character (presumably 'The Broker') jumps into a Giant Cauldron with molten metal, to be awoken moments later. After which he calls a surprised onlooker.
But I don't know if the Empyrean Age is considered Canon. |
Tykari
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
108
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Posted - 2013.01.23 22:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
There something about non-pod mind transfer in some of the older backstory pieces and it mentions just how unreliable it really is. They tried using the same sort of snapshot process outside pods by putting the transneural scans in vehicles and portable equipment but false readings would make it go too early or fail to go off properly. The pod breaching is a clear and reliable sign and the way you are connected makes the process a lot easier too.
As for the slow snapshot scanning stuff for soft-clones I'd have to leave that to people with more knowledge of EVE's backstory because I don't know much about that. In this dark void we are like brilliant stars, holding within us both the creative and destructive power to bring a new dawn upon worlds or plunge them into eternal darkness. |
Irregessa
Obfuscation and Reflections
50
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Posted - 2013.01.23 23:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Isn't podless cloning the basis of how DUST514 mercs operate?
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Esna Pitoojee
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
177
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Posted - 2013.01.24 00:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Irregessa wrote:Isn't podless cloning the basis of how DUST514 mercs operate?
Yes, but in a vastly different manner.
The best analogy I have to how the cloning that capsuleers (and, up until now, all other mind-transfer cloning in the cluster) use is that it's somewhat akin to taking a piece of paper and scanning it, transmitting the digital data to a printer, and printing out an identical copy on that printer. Although the process can be made relatively seamless with a well-enough system, the data is always undergoing a fundamental change at each step: Scanning physical to data, data transmitted, printing data to physical again.
A good analogy for DUST cloning technology is having a couple of networked computers, one of which is constantly backing up everything it does to the other. If the "active" machine is damaged or destroyed, the "backup" can pick up immediately by merit of having the last moments of activity already transmitted to it. The data does NOT fundamentally change form. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
4280
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Posted - 2013.01.24 00:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
There been a few back stories of pod pilots getting killed out of their pod, one such story followed a man who had an error in his clone and lost his ability to control ships. The remedy would wipe out all of his experience since he last woke up. It was over all a good short story.
As for soft 'copying' I can see it being possible more doable with the past fiction borrowing on the story mentioned above, killing them outside of the pod only makes them forget who shot them or how they got to that point in getting shot.
There was a live event back in the days too where concord was able to punish a capsuleer and condemn him to death. The blew his ship up and killed the clone that was supposed to reactivate for him while terminating his clone contracts. basically bio-massed the poor fellow like you folks do to your alts quite often.
Either way its for fiction and lore masters at ccp to straighten the story. Until then I will argue my views when its brought up in-conversation.
Afterall these stories are more common than a capsuleer dying outside of his pod being the last straw.
That would be far too easy of an escape from capture and torture as an immortal. and it wouldn't be eve with some fubar.
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Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
246
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Posted - 2013.01.24 01:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Prootje wrote:There is a passage in the Empyrean Age in which a character (presumably 'The Broker', although it could be a middlemen of some sorts, since it's never explicitly stated that it's him, although he does present himself as The Broker) jumps into a Giant Cauldron with molten metal, to be awoken moments later. After which he calls a surprised onlooker.
But I don't know if the Empyrean Age is considered Canon.
You cannot count The Broker by the same standards used for us. He was known to use a radically different cloning tech which, among other things, allowed him some kind of hive mind control among his multiple clones. You can't just say that he was softclonning himself. |
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Tavin Aikisen
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
126
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Posted - 2013.01.24 01:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
Empyrean Age and several EON Chronicles all feature capsuleers being killed out of their pod and reborn while confined to certain areas (generally stations with clones in that same station).
I think we need an official lore response on this. Something that confirms/denies the possibility as explained through a chronicle or scientific article or something. Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home. -Cold Wind |
Kaseki Suuvatolo
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.01.24 02:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
There are countless official references to cloning outside of the context of capsuleers. There should be no debate that cloning outside of the capsule exists. The story of the capsule itself, for example, is one of marrying cloning technology (that evidently must have already existed pre-capsule) with the pod piloting technology that made space flight easier.
Therefore...
....if regular people have access to regular cloning, then the concept of "death outside of the capsule not being permanent" existed long ago in the world, well before capsuleers entered the scene.
Therefore...
The notion that capsuleers, with their wealth and power, would not have access to this same technology that others have used for decades/centuries, well, it just doesn't make any sense.
There you go. Two minutes of logical thought. Issue solved. |
Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
337
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Posted - 2013.01.24 06:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP Eterne wrote:If you die outside of the capsule, you are dead.
The existence of soft cloning is currently a bit of a murky point in our PF. It was there, maybe, in places, but might not have been. It got put into a Mercury article I wrote back before I was hired, but eventually got removed... It's a bit debatable if it actually fits in our fiction or not. Seriously, what's the point of having a fiction portal if you can't trust or use the information therein. You can't just have information like that on there for nearly a year, and not expect players to import that into their own backstory/RP. Players were using softclones before that because nothing in the old articles clearly stated that it was not possible or allowed, it only mentions that there was/is opposition to cloning in general.
Ch+¬ has done quite a lot of things knowing he (and some others) had a soft clone. Now he doesn't even know if they have one. If this is gone, then at least don't retcon this like you have, but make something up like that softcloning was banned in YC 114/115. Players hate retconning their stories, you know?
I'm gonna stop writing now before I enter into a 'CCP doesn't care about RP' rant, but I was kinda hoping these things would not happen anymore. Contraband Smuggling: Player Assisted Customs |
Sarah Flinnley
Cannabis Incorporated
0
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Posted - 2013.01.24 20:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Huh, didn't know this would create quite this seemingly animated response. I only asked because I was in the mood to write a short, and didn't want anything to be completely off the ball.
[edit] Thank you everyone for responding. |
LOL56
Galactic Express
36
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Posted - 2013.01.25 12:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
Without something like soft cloning, why was the infrastructure and research to make capsular a reality even possible? Who would ever need a clone except as an organ bank then? Why are the technologies to give use persistent scaring able to exists? Most importantly what do very rich non-capsolears DO with those clone contracts they have. It can't be jump clones, because those are less than ten years old. Is it really worth the millions of ISK just to be able to eat bacon three meals a day and smoke like a chimney? |
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CCP Eterne
C C P C C P Alliance
1945
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Posted - 2013.01.25 13:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
I agree with you that the inconsistency is annoying and shouldn't happen. Community Representative GÇ+ EVE Illuminati GÇ+ Fiction Adept
@CCP_Eterne GÇ+ @EVE_LiveEvents |
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Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
1238
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Posted - 2013.01.25 13:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
LOL56 wrote:Without something like soft cloning, why was the infrastructure and research to make capsular a reality even possible? Who would ever need a clone except as an organ bank then? Why are the technologies to give use persistent scaring able to exists? Most importantly what do very rich non-capsolears DO with those clone contracts they have. It can't be jump clones, because those are less than ten years old. Is it really worth the millions of ISK just to be able to eat bacon three meals a day and smoke like a chimney?
This pretty much. Its known that the wealthy and powerful have been able to have access to clones even without pod-technology. It's not inconceivable that capsuleers, who are some of the most wealthy and powerful, could have access to the same technology, unless there was some sort of law or regulation preventing it. Even then, I see most capsuleers skirting around that law because who is going to allow themselves to have such a glaring and obvious weakness when the technology to fix it clearly exists, all things being equal? |
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
3182
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Posted - 2013.01.25 13:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
Yeah, and lets be honest, 99% of RPers are going to completely ignore the lack of PF support for softcloning. We've been doing it for years and its just too big a part of roleplay, and without it, it leaves roleplay incredibly limited (and with most of our characters dead)
Torn from grace, gotta find your faith or the devils gonna claim your soul
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CCP Falcon
2187
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Posted - 2013.01.25 15:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Saede Riordan wrote:Yeah, and lets be honest, 99% of RPers are going to completely ignore the lack of PF support for softcloning. We've been doing it for years and its just too big a part of roleplay, and without it, it leaves roleplay incredibly limited (and with most of our characters dead)
This is the main reason that I think it should stay.
It's been referenced in a few places as being in place and within reach of the obscenely rich and/or important. I certainly think it's something that should stay, as it's out of reach of the vast majority of the population of New Eden anyway.
It's also become a big thing in player backstory and fiction too.
Still, it'll be Abraxas and Gnauton who make that call!
CCP Falcon -á || -á EVE Community Team -á || -á EVE Illuminati -á || -á Live Events Organizer
@CCP_Falcon -á || -á-á@EVE_LiveEvents |
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ChromeStriker
The Riot Formation Unclaimed.
467
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Posted - 2013.01.25 15:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
2 words.... Dust clones.
dont see them running around in pods - Nulla Curas |
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Per Bastet
B.O.O.M Obsidian Mining Coalition
21
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Posted - 2013.01.25 17:13:00 -
[21] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:2 words.... Dust clones.
dont see them running around in pods
Dust Clones are a Whole different Ball of Wax. It's the Result of at first harvested Sleeper Implants, and now Reverse engineered implants that function the same way. They are not compatable with Pod Implants Currently, but I'm sure some enterprizing capsuleers could fund some research into making a modified version that can be used for when they are out of pod, in a jump clone style useage. |
Jiska Ensa
Unour Heavy Industries
129
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Posted - 2013.01.26 03:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:2 words.... Dust clones.
dont see them running around in pods
Yes, and I seem to recall the tech in their heads was being researched. Why don't we just all agree to plug a pager into our neck sockets whenever we leave our pods? Not as effective as the capsule's aggressive photocopier but it can at least say "Hey, new clone, old guy just died. Time to wake up. Oh, and by the way, here's the abridged version of what happened over the last 16 hours since he left his capsule". |
Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
239
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Posted - 2013.01.26 10:47:00 -
[23] - Quote
Surely CCP need to have some kind of soft clone idea to go with future Incarna idea?
I mean I sure as hell wont be leaving my ship and walking around old ruins having people shoot at me if it's a perma death scenario "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves." |
Kwan Enderas
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.02.02 03:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
I feel like the Broker has plenty of soft clones, active at the same time.
It also seems like death is death, capsuleer or not. If you were to transfer this brain state info to a clone without the death of the original, you'd have two people, the same people, alive at the same time. |
Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
117
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Posted - 2013.02.05 04:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
Turelus wrote:Surely CCP need to have some kind of soft clone idea to go with future Incarna idea? I mean I sure as hell wont be leaving my ship and walking around old ruins having people shoot at me if it's a perma death scenario You're probably quite near the mark here. Since much of the "prototyped" Incarna content was shelved, the Illuminati are more than likely keeping the specifics of 'soft cloning' as nebulous as they can. That way, they can appropriately tailor the 'lore' to match the realities of the game content (once they're finally nailed down). This leaves the design teams free from having to worry about lore problems and inconsistencies.
Till then, we have to live with them instead. Blame it on the development pipeline (although, frankly, I think lore should inform content, not the other way around). |
Eija-Riitta Veitonen
Unicorn Enterprise
53
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Posted - 2013.02.05 07:16:00 -
[26] - Quote
I'm fairly sure CCP had repeatedly stated that there will be no combat in stations. |
JC Anderson
Noir. Black Legion.
901
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Posted - 2013.02.05 09:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
As others have mentioned, I've been curious about the DUST clones as well.
In the cinematic trailer they go out of their way to indicate that there is an instant transfer of consciousness. After which, is there line "They would be" -------(Dramatic Pause)------- "Immortal"
From the sound of it, I am assuming DUST clones are far more advanced that the ones that we capsuleers have access to. Or at least it seems that way, since the individuals talking about the DUST clones in the trailer are capsuleers. And yet they discuss it in amazement as if its something new that they had never known existed before that point. |
JC Anderson
Noir. Black Legion.
901
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Posted - 2013.02.05 09:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
Also back on Capsuleer clones, this line in the official Evelopedia has always confused me.
Evelopedia Entry -- Therefore, the instant the egg begins to crack, two things happen: the wire-cap on the pilotGÇÖs head injects an instantly lethal nanotoxin into his bloodstream and the scanner sends its piercing light into his skull. Scarce seconds later, he begins the muddy climb towards consciousness in a new body, light years away. --
In that, they make it sound a lot more like traditional immortality. |
Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
252
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Posted - 2013.02.05 11:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
Because our clones cannot do it if we are outside the capsule. The capsule is the mechanism that detects when are we about to die (asuming we are inside), does the brainscan and sends the info to the new clone. If you die outside the capsule, no instant transfer of consciousness for you. That's when you will need a previously created back up clone with as updated as possible memories.
On the other hand, the DUST clones allow an instant transfer of conscioussness (even at the moment of death) at any moment, making them ideal for any close combat action. |
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CCP Eterne
C C P C C P Alliance
2032
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Posted - 2013.02.05 13:02:00 -
[30] - Quote
The clone contract you purchase has nothing to do with scanning you prior to death. It is instead simply a body that they alter to look like you and seed with your DNA (if you chose to have that service performed). The quality of the material used to make the body determines if your brain can hold all your skills. Low quality clones are made using lower quality biomass. New Eden Community Representative GÇ+ New Eden Illuminati GÇ+ Fiction Adept
@CCP_Eterne GÇ+ @EVE_LiveEvents |
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