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Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
62
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 02:48:00 -
[151] - Quote
Andski wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Andski wrote:Scamming is allowed in this game and it hasn't hindered its growth. There is no scientific proof on whether it does or not. Statistically, chances are people have quit because they have been scammed, though. "scientific proof?" scamming clearly hasn't hindered the growth of this game considering that, well, it's grown statistically, chances are people have quit because of the skill system, are you going to suggest that everyone starts out with all skills at 5? He didn't say "scientific proof" indicates one thing or the other. He said that "statistically" people don't continue to do business with the same entity that scammed them. IDK if thats true or not. I bet it is.
"scamming clearly hasn't hindered the growth of this game considering that, well, it's grown" Growth of the game in no way proves that certain aspects of the game haven't held it back.
Your post is horrible. Misquotes and bad logic. I'm surprised.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6466
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 02:54:00 -
[152] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:He didn't say "scientific proof" indicates one thing or the other. He said that "statistically" people don't continue to do business with the same entity that scammed them. IDK if thats true or not. I bet it is.
"scamming clearly hasn't hindered the growth of this game considering that, well, it's grown" Growth of the game in no way proves that certain aspects of the game haven't held it back.
Your post is horrible. Misquotes and bad logic. I'm surprised.
Held it back from what? This game has been active for close to 10 years with no decline, and EVE has 450,000+ subscribers between Tranquility and Serenity. I'd call that a success.
You don't have to be a 5 year veteran to see that a contract asking for 2 PLEX in exchange for 600M is a scam when 1 PLEX costs 550M. You don't have to be a 5 year veteran to figure out that the market is where the majority of stuff in the game is purchased, considering that the goddamn tutorials teach you how to use it, how to use contracts and have absolutely nothing on the trade window.
There's a huge difference between being a newbie and an idiot. I'm sorry if you thought EVE was a themepark wonderland where the developers hold your hand at every turn so that you don't fall over and bruise your knee, but that isn't what this game is about. ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
62
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 02:54:00 -
[153] - Quote
Andski wrote:NEONOVUS wrote:Much as greifing in newbie systems is prohibited I feel that such rules should expand to scamming of PLEX. No, it should not.
He voiced an opinion along with some supporting observations. Among them the idea that CCP does consider new players differently, in that it is not permitted to smash them up too badly in the starter systems.
That rule hasn't destroyed content, or made Eve dull and easy. There is no reason not to expand it to PLEX. despite your personal objections.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics CODE.
663
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 02:57:00 -
[154] - Quote
CCP, I would just like to say that I'm quite pleased with the current PLEX system, and feel that it's working as intended. :) |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
62
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 03:06:00 -
[155] - Quote
Andski wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote:He didn't say "scientific proof" indicates one thing or the other. He said that "statistically" people don't continue to do business with the same entity that scammed them. IDK if thats true or not. I bet it is.
"scamming clearly hasn't hindered the growth of this game considering that, well, it's grown" Growth of the game in no way proves that certain aspects of the game haven't held it back.
Your post is horrible. Misquotes and bad logic. I'm surprised.
Held it back from what? This game has been active for close to 10 years with no decline, and EVE has 450,000+ subscribers between Tranquility and Serenity. I'd call that a success. You don't have to be a 5 year veteran to see that a contract asking for 2 PLEX in exchange for 600M is a scam when 1 PLEX costs 550M. You don't have to be a 5 year veteran to figure out that the market is where the majority of stuff in the game is purchased, considering that the goddamn tutorials teach you how to use it, how to use contracts and have absolutely nothing on the trade window. There's a huge difference between being a newbie and an idiot. I'm sorry if you thought EVE was a themepark wonderland where the developers hold your hand at every turn so that you don't fall over and bruise your knee, but that isn't what this game is about.
You exaggerate about the effect that removing PLEX would have. It will not be like a wonderland. It will still be Eve, except there will be a few more kids that get involved.
You have no proof that PLEX as an in game item and the scams that it encourages help to make Eve a great place. Many posters on this thread have claimed that Eve is not dead yet, and offer that as proof that no changes should be made. Then complain vociferously about something CCP screwed up somewhere else. There is always something that can be improved and made better, something that will bring in more customers.
We most likely lost one today because of a PLEX scam. Would that kid have been the best Eve player? who knows what he would have been. But even if he wants roller coasters and cotton candy Eve is a big enough place to accommodate that while still having room for a darker more sinister game. That is the magic of the sandbox.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6466
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 03:07:00 -
[156] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:That rule hasn't destroyed content, or made Eve dull and easy. There is no reason not to expand it to PLEX. despite your personal objections.
okay let's see here
1) new players aren't the only ones who buy PLEX 2) there is no way to tell who is a "new player" and an alt of a guy playing since 2003 and I doubt the "ban first, ask questions later" GMs go off checking that 3) every rule meant to protect "new players" has always ended up protecting older players, e.g. the recruitment channel rule which was, according to GMs, meant to "protect new players" while people were getting negwalleted for scamming 2006 idiots 4) considering that a newbie can buy a pile of PLEX and use that to buy a character off the market, that creates even more ambiguity
so yeah your idea is terrible, just learn how to use the market and stop asking CCP to hold your hand, don't worry, the rest of us managed to get through the darkness ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6466
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 03:08:00 -
[157] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:You exaggerate about the effect that removing PLEX would have. It will not be like a wonderland. It will still be Eve, except there will be a few more kids that get involved.
Well damn son we might as well add mounts, /salutes and dances so we can get all of the kids playing EVE Online because CCP CLEARLY INTENDED EVE ONLINE TO BE A CHILDREN'S GAME RIGHT? ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2135
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 03:10:00 -
[158] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:
He did get the thing that she bought though, he just gave it away to someone.
You and I both know that. But what do you think he's going to tell mommy?
That's irrelevant to the fact that he paid money for a PLEX & received a PLEX. If she decides to do a chargeback CCP are able to dispute it & will end up getting the money back because they delivered exactly what was paid for, leaving her with additional charges to pay the bank afterwards. The Adventures of a Belligerent Undesirable |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
62
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 03:11:00 -
[159] - Quote
Andski wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote:That rule hasn't destroyed content, or made Eve dull and easy. There is no reason not to expand it to PLEX. despite your personal objections. okay let's see here 1) new players aren't the only ones who buy PLEX 2) there is no way to tell who is a "new player" and an alt of a guy playing since 2003 and I doubt the "ban first, ask questions later" GMs go off checking that 3) every rule meant to protect "new players" has always ended up protecting older players, e.g. the recruitment channel rule which was, according to GMs, meant to "protect new players" while people were getting negwalleted for scamming 2006 idiots 4) considering that a newbie can buy a pile of PLEX and use that to buy a character off the market, that creates even more ambiguity so yeah your idea is terrible, just learn how to use the market and stop asking CCP to hold your hand, don't worry, the rest of us managed to get through the darkness You keep trying to make this about me wanting CCP to hold my hand and I don't know why. Is it because you had it tough and made it through a tough initiation that you think its now your turn to initiate someone, your turn to sit back and laugh while someone gets hammered like you perhaps did?
Most organizations are doing away with hazing for just this reason.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2135
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 03:15:00 -
[160] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:If CCP enbedded ID codes on all PLEX and spent some time baiting such scammers then Eve would be a better place with more new subscribers.
They would have to pay people to do this, making it a colossal waste of money.
The Adventures of a Belligerent Undesirable |
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NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
304
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Posted - 2013.01.25 03:18:00 -
[161] - Quote
Andski wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote:You exaggerate about the effect that removing PLEX would have. It will not be like a wonderland. It will still be Eve, except there will be a few more kids that get involved. Well damn son we might as well add mounts, /salutes and dances so we can get all of the kids playing EVE Online because CCP CLEARLY INTENDED EVE ONLINE TO BE A CHILDREN'S GAME RIGHT? Ok you are now prohibited from docking at any noncorp station. Navies now will kill any ship caught Any items left in NPC stations or lost to a captued station is gone forever. At anytime a director may take whatever they please from your wallet or hangars. There will be no usage of help sites. Oh and you will have to submit a birth certificate copy proving you are over 20 to play. There no more child's play for you. |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
62
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 03:18:00 -
[162] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote:If CCP enbedded ID codes on all PLEX and spent some time baiting such scammers then Eve would be a better place with more new subscribers. They would have to pay people to do this, making it a colossal waste of money.
You are right. PLEX should just not be an in game item.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6466
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 03:20:00 -
[163] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:You keep trying to make this about me wanting CCP to hold my hand and I don't know why. Is it because you had it tough and made it through a tough initiation that you think its now your turn to initiate someone, your turn to sit back and laugh while someone gets hammered like you perhaps did?
Most organizations are doing away with hazing for just this reason.
your argument is still "we need more kids playing eve online, an MMO for children" ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6466
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 03:22:00 -
[164] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote:Ok you are now prohibited from docking at any noncorp station. Navies now will kill any ship caught Any items left in NPC stations or lost to a captued station is gone forever. At anytime a director may take whatever they please from your wallet or hangars. There will be no usage of help sites. Oh and you will have to submit a birth certificate copy proving you are over 20 to play. There no more child's play for you.
"you can dock in any NPC station in EVE, this is clearly indicative that it is a game intended for 11 year olds" ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
304
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 03:24:00 -
[165] - Quote
Andski wrote:NEONOVUS wrote:Ok you are now prohibited from docking at any noncorp station. Navies now will kill any ship caught Any items left in NPC stations or lost to a captued station is gone forever. At anytime a director may take whatever they please from your wallet or hangars. There will be no usage of help sites. Oh and you will have to submit a birth certificate copy proving you are over 20 to play. There no more child's play for you. "you can dock in any NPC station in EVE, this is clearly indicative that it is a game intended for 11 year olds" Thank you for agreeing to the rest of the rules. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2136
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 03:24:00 -
[166] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote:If CCP enbedded ID codes on all PLEX and spent some time baiting such scammers then Eve would be a better place with more new subscribers. They would have to pay people to do this, making it a colossal waste of money. You are right. PLEX should just not be an in game item.
Why not? PLEX gives people who don't want to pay real money the opportunity to pay with ingame money instead. they are also used to buy fanfest tickets & as a way to donate money to [insert major natural disaster here]. Can you come up with a good reason why they shouldn't be an ingame item? The Adventures of a Belligerent Undesirable |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6467
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 03:26:00 -
[167] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Can you come up with a good reason why they shouldn't be an ingame item?
because 12 year olds with their single mom's american express blue card will get scammed, apparently ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2137
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 03:28:00 -
[168] - Quote
Andski wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Can you come up with a good reason why they shouldn't be an ingame item? because 12 year olds with their single mom's american express blue card will get scammed, apparently
Birthday money scam stories really are the best. The Adventures of a Belligerent Undesirable |
NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
304
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 03:35:00 -
[169] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Andski wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Can you come up with a good reason why they shouldn't be an ingame item? because 12 year olds with their single mom's american express blue card will get scammed, apparently Birthday money scam stories really are the best. Not from a public relations standpoint. The younger crowd is less likely to go and play a game that already requires patience, if they find out what money they have is gone like that. Again how does PLEX scamming driving off people benefit CCP?
Here is a statistic set I would like to see. Player trades PLEX through nonmarket means, does player remain after 31 days? |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
62
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 03:36:00 -
[170] - Quote
Andski wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote:You keep trying to make this about me wanting CCP to hold my hand and I don't know why. Is it because you had it tough and made it through a tough initiation that you think its now your turn to initiate someone, your turn to sit back and laugh while someone gets hammered like you perhaps did?
Most organizations are doing away with hazing for just this reason. your argument is still "we need more kids playing eve online, an MMO for children" My argument is that if PLEX were not an in game item then PLEX scams would not happen.
My argument is that PLEX scams do not make Eve a cooler, darker, knifier place. There are plenty of scams that do, they are a lot more difficult to pull off. They require real skill and time to put together. But that is not the scammers game, even if it is the game that most of us here play. I do not understand why players who have worked so hard to get good at this game support those who only want to attack the weakest of us.
If new players get to buy ships with PLEX then older players get to sell them the ships and then blow them up. That is so much more interesting than "psst hey kid, come eer, I gots a deal for youz." cliclcikclcikclcilc;cko BAM o/.........."oh ****, moms gonna be so mad."
I know that you don't see the difference, I'm not going to change your mind. But by all means keep posting here.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6467
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 03:40:00 -
[171] - Quote
why are you so interested in children playing eve online ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
62
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 03:45:00 -
[172] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote:If CCP enbedded ID codes on all PLEX and spent some time baiting such scammers then Eve would be a better place with more new subscribers. They would have to pay people to do this, making it a colossal waste of money. You are right. PLEX should just not be an in game item. Why not? PLEX gives people who don't want to pay real money the opportunity to pay with ingame money instead. they are also used to buy fanfest tickets & as a way to donate money to [insert major natural disaster here]. Can you come up with a good reason why they shouldn't be an ingame item?
The ability to buy game time with in game currency must be preserved. That is one of the most brilliant ideas in the MMO world. Whatever the "solution" is to PLEX scams players who make enough in game currency must be able to use that currency to buy game time.
The thing is that hinges on other players wanting to buy in game currency with real money. The fewer players who are willing to use real money to buy ISK the more expensive it will be to purchase timecode with ISK.
What happened today makes PLEXing an account more expensive. And the more it happens the more ISK you will have to spend on timecode.
Conversly if people really enjoy buying ISK with real money then they will buy more, and the cost gametime in ISK will go down.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
62
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 03:46:00 -
[173] - Quote
Put another way: If PLEX cant be stolen then people will buy more PLEX. With more PLEX on the market the price of PLEX will go down.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
62
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 03:48:00 -
[174] - Quote
I think your just trolling. Thats OK I'm just happy to see this thread get more hits.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2137
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 03:50:00 -
[175] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Put another way: If PLEX cant be stolen then people will buy more PLEX. With more PLEX on the market the price of PLEX will go down.
Supply & demand isn't the only thing that affects PLEX prices. All I'm getting from your posts is "PLEX shouldn't be an ingame item because people are stupid. Protect the stupid". The Adventures of a Belligerent Undesirable |
Cutter Isaacson
Nouvelle Rouvenor Monkeys with Guns.
2272
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 03:51:00 -
[176] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Put another way: If PLEX cant be stolen then people will buy more PLEX. With more PLEX on the market the price of PLEX will go down.
PLEX become worthless, people no longer buy them with RL cash as making more ISK in game is easier and quicker.
Well done, you killed the PLEX market entirely, cut the user base by a third but its ok, because now 12 year olds will play. "The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
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Vernn Miller
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
37
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 03:59:00 -
[177] - Quote
Has a picture of the mom of person that has been scammed been released yet?
How many Caldari does it take to screw in a light bulb? - None. Caldari do not screw, they are grown in factories. |
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics CODE.
664
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 04:41:00 -
[178] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Andski wrote:Mistah Ewedynao wrote:Make all the conditions you like but scamming noobs, ganking noobs, sucking noobs into BS gank the noob corps etc, are all total Bullcrap and anyone caught doing such should be permabanned.
The game will be much better off without them. AND the whole scamming plex thing has gotten out of control IMO. Sure, those of us who have been around don't pay attention to them so why are they there? The only person who will fall for one is a noob, otherwise they just contribute to the local spam overload in trade hubs. They can't prohibit scamming newbies without prohibiting scamming in its entirety, since making special cases for new players adds excessive GM workload when everyone who gets scammed regardless of how long they have been playing tries to get their stuff back under a vague provision. Scamming is allowed in this game and it hasn't hindered its growth. "They can't prohibit suicide ganking newbies without prohibiting suicide ganking in its entirity, since making special cases for new players adds excessive GM workload when everyone who gets suicide ganked regardless of how long they have been playing tries to get their stuff back under a vague provision." And yet they ban for suicide ganking newbs. There's no reason they can't make a provision for scamming as well.
Lies lies lies lies lies lies lies.
That last bit is a lie.
They punish the specific and deliberate, not-for-profit targeting of noobs at their discretion.
After they leave their little starter-station they are subject to the same cruel Galaxy as the rest of us, including its opportunists. If I caught this guy mining in New Order territory without a permit in his Navitas or whatever, I am allowed to suicide gank him. It is not against the rules. I have done it before, I will do it again, file your petitions, tell 'em Pig sent ya. Here I stand, never been so much as warned about anything. Same as if I met this "kid" in Jita and he seemed eager to hand over a PLEX. It's not because he's a noob, it's because he was an easy/lucrative target.
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Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2137
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 05:20:00 -
[179] - Quote
Galaxy Pig wrote:After they leave their little starter-station they are subject to the same cruel Galaxy as the rest of us
Starter systems. You can't suicide gank or bait newbies in these systems at all but they're fair game once they leave. The Adventures of a Belligerent Undesirable |
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics CODE.
664
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 05:21:00 -
[180] - Quote
Thank you sir, I fixed it ;) |
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