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Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1824
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Posted - 2013.01.29 05:17:00 -
[61] - Quote
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:Obviously, there is limited invulnerability when undocking, so then wouldn't that make bumping off of undock an exploit, and it so, why haven't CCP addressed it?
inb4 bad posts inb4 people who like to bump inb4 station games are worse
because they are still laughing at your petition
"You were the chosen one Anakin, you were supposed to bring order to the galaxy, not destroy it!" -Obi Wan (Ben) Kenobi -á |
Chokichi Ozuwara
Lucky Dragon Convenience
481
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Posted - 2013.01.29 06:51:00 -
[62] - Quote
Morganta wrote:because they are still laughing at your petition But I didn't put in a petition. So uhm... try again?
Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Chokichi Ozuwara
Lucky Dragon Convenience
481
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Posted - 2013.01.29 06:56:00 -
[63] - Quote
rareden wrote:Ever herd of bookmarks? I have. I'd like to know how to make an undock bookmark, when it's your first undock from a station that blows you up.
Please explain that, I am sure everyone would like to know.
rareden wrote:Is it above your cognitive ability to think of solutions yourself? I don't need a solution. I merely want clarification.
rareden wrote:must you complain to ccp to try and fix everything. I haven't complained to CCP. I just made this thread asking other pilots what their opinion was.
rareden wrote:If you don't want to be bumped then find another game or lean more about this one and stop crying about it. As I have already posted, I don't mind if I am bumped. I'm not looking for rule changes, reimbursement, or anything other than clarification if this was a known mechanic not considered an exploit.
I think you've failed to read the thread, and certainly, most of my posts. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
107
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Posted - 2013.01.29 07:01:00 -
[64] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Not Politically Correct wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:For clarification, if you try to bump someone before their undock timer ends you simply fly through them. They are, in effect, intangible. You see this effect all the time at crowded undock points like Jita 4-4... all manner of ships flying through each other at first. They only begin playing bumper cars when people start changing course, they activate a module, or their timer runs out. This is absolutely incorrect. Was the person who told you this wearing a tinfoil hat? I go to Jita IV/4 a lot. If there are three other freighhters in fron ot me, or even one, I run into them in a lot less than 30 seconds. I have a QE point there. It only works when there is nothing big in front of me. Try this. Undock from Jita 4-4 with a stopwatch. Touch nothing. Time how long it takes for your ship to bump into something (as indicated by a sharp change in your velocity, not by when your graphics show you getting incorporeally swallowed by them). Oh, and P4M1 works well as an Insta-Undock from 4-4 CNAP (just tested it), as does P4 (though not quite as neatly). But, as I see that you're aggressively angry that other people understand the mechanics of the game we all play better than you do, so I'm sure you'll claim that you're a special snowflake for whom the game works differently.
Nope. No claim on being a special snow flake. I just like to look around every now and then when I am flying. If I can't warp to the QE point because of a freighter in front of me, I notice it.
It could be anything. Lag, graphics settings, whatever. But, when I push the Warp To button, and don't warp, it seems a little suspicious to me, based on what you suggest.
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Chokichi Ozuwara
Lucky Dragon Convenience
481
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Posted - 2013.01.29 07:02:00 -
[65] - Quote
Psychotic Monk wrote:The tool you want to use to defend yourself in this situation is an insta-undock bookmark. If you google it I'm sure you'll find a guide to making one. I've made them many times before. It didn't help me at a station I was visiting for the first time.
I do like that you put bounties on my character in game. Nothing screams beta male like taking forum posts about game mechanics and translating them into passive-aggressive virtual griefing. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2531
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Posted - 2013.01.29 07:57:00 -
[66] - Quote
Not Politically Correct wrote:Nope. No claim on being a special snow flake. I just like to look around every now and then when I am flying. If I can't warp to the QE point because of a freighter in front of me, I notice it.
It could be anything. Lag, graphics settings, whatever. But, when I push the Warp To button, and don't warp, it seems a little suspicious to me, based on what you suggest.
Explain to me how you think "pushing the warp button" is included in the set "Touching Nothing." Pushing the warp button cancels your invulnerability.
As for insta-undocks, it sounds like you set yours up poorly, which is why you end up bumping into things as you align somewhere else. An insta will almost always (not always because the station ejects you facing somewhere in a 15deg cone) allow you to instantly warp because your speed is at or better than 75% max (it happens to be well better than max), and all that velocity is pointed in the right direction, so you enter warp immediately.
If you're pushing a Warp To button, you're not going to a bookmark, so what celestial are you warping to?
Everyone else who flies a Freighter in and around Jita has an insta-undock bookmark. As it happens, mine took me 10 minutes with my market alt in an AB Merlin. It works perfectly, and I've yet to have the realignment (due to the aformentioned cone) take long enough that I get bumped around. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
801
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Posted - 2013.01.29 10:31:00 -
[67] - Quote
For the love of... OK SIMPLE SOLUTION TIME to fix this and many of Jita's problems as well:
Hey, ever notice how many station models show multiple docking ports? Then how come all ships are stuck using the same one? How about CCP actually put in multiple functional docking ports in stations? Four should be enough. Have them all point in different directions. Six if you want to include straight up & down. Either let people chose an exit port or just randomize it to keep the interface clean.
Ta-da! Which exit port shall they use? Nobody knows! But many, many pointless collisions (and station camps) are thusly averted and egads, how hard can this really be to program, honestly? EvE Forum Bingo |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
7054
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Posted - 2013.01.29 10:33:00 -
[68] - Quote
I'm sorry captain, I didn't know where I was going... bump.
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Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
827
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Posted - 2013.01.29 10:54:00 -
[69] - Quote
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
inb4 bad posts
How can you post before your own post? "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
117
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Posted - 2013.01.29 11:25:00 -
[70] - Quote
Psychotic Monk wrote:The tool you want to use to defend yourself in this situation is an insta-undock bookmark. If you google it I'm sure you'll find a guide to making one.
Its a necessary tool - but not 100% reliable alone - have to be aware that your launches can be pretty crooked. If you are in a cloak warper you may be able to cloak and then go if your opponent doesn't accelerate after you properly during invuln. Tricky game though, always have to have it in the back of your mind to wait and redock if its not gunna work.
I put a little too much faith in a crooked lauch (insta launch was straight enough) once against RSB'd opponents.
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Solstice Project
T E R R O R I S T S
2664
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Posted - 2013.01.29 15:13:00 -
[71] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Psychotic Monk wrote:The tool you want to use to defend yourself in this situation is an insta-undock bookmark. If you google it I'm sure you'll find a guide to making one. Its a necessary tool - but not 100% reliable alone - have to be aware that your launches can be pretty crooked. If you are in a cloak warper you may be able to cloak and then go if your opponent doesn't accelerate after you properly during invuln. Tricky game though, always have to have it in the back of your mind to wait and redock if its not gunna work. I put a little too much faith in a crooked lauch (insta launch was straight enough) once against RSB'd opponents. Cant cloak within docking radius and whoever waits that long to instaundock is doing it wrong. Completely.
Done right, one is uncatchable.
If the OP docks at a station before making one ... well. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Dr No Game
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
50
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Posted - 2013.01.29 15:17:00 -
[72] - Quote
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:rareden wrote:Ever herd of bookmarks? I have. I'd like to know how to make an undock bookmark, when it's your first undock from a station that blows you up. Please explain that, I am sure everyone would like to know.
I don't suppose it crossed your mind to make an undock insta in a crappy frigate BEFORE you undocked in your expensive ship?
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enterprisePSI
174
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Posted - 2013.01.29 16:03:00 -
[73] - Quote
Military experts are calling this a create insta undock with an alt. The tears of the many, outweight the tears of the few. Or the one. enterprise-psi-¬
I made tweet, Y U NO FOLLOW!!! |
Chokichi Ozuwara
Lucky Dragon Convenience
481
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Posted - 2013.01.29 18:12:00 -
[74] - Quote
Dr No Game wrote:I don't suppose it crossed your mind to make an undock insta in a crappy frigate BEFORE you undocked in your expensive ship? What difference would that have made? I would have lost the frigate.
I am not crying about losing a ship. The loss amount was trivial relative to my net space wealth.
I want clarification on how this mechanic works for future reference. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2538
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Posted - 2013.01.30 04:56:00 -
[75] - Quote
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:Dr No Game wrote:I don't suppose it crossed your mind to make an undock insta in a crappy frigate BEFORE you undocked in your expensive ship? What difference would that have made? I would have lost the frigate.
And tried again, having lost nothing of any significance.
Quote:I am not crying about losing a ship. The loss amount was trivial relative to my net space wealth.
I want clarification on how this mechanic works for future reference.
And you've received it. In spades.
You undocked > you waited 30s or did something to break your invulnerability (like pressing align, warp, or any module) > you got bumped out of the docking ring > you died.
Or you undocked from a kickout station > waited 30s or did something to break your invulnerability > got bumped to keep you from burning to the docking ring > died.
Those are the two possibilities, if everything you've told us is accurate. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
118
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Posted - 2013.01.30 10:10:00 -
[76] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Tauranon wrote:Psychotic Monk wrote:The tool you want to use to defend yourself in this situation is an insta-undock bookmark. If you google it I'm sure you'll find a guide to making one. Its a necessary tool - but not 100% reliable alone - have to be aware that your launches can be pretty crooked. If you are in a cloak warper you may be able to cloak and then go if your opponent doesn't accelerate after you properly during invuln. Tricky game though, always have to have it in the back of your mind to wait and redock if its not gunna work. I put a little too much faith in a crooked lauch (insta launch was straight enough) once against RSB'd opponents. Cant cloak within docking radius and whoever *waits* to instaundock is doing it wrong. Completely. Done right, one is uncatchable. If the OP docks at a station before making one ... well... too bad. I've tried that and its not possible from Australia - even in my other client, my ship is visible ~0.5 of a second before I'm allowed to initiate a warp, in the black screen the BM only allows me "approach". One imagines there is a hard sync occuring at the start of the space session, and client doesn't think I'm in space till the hard sync completes.
Europeans are almost certainly seeing me for longer, and quite frankly against teenagers 0.5 a second is more than enough - they'll have me picked and will be pressing lock.
The system allows a warp to be queued with a cloak at a gate, but obviously that is after the session change at my leisure.
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Solstice Project
T E R R O R I S T S
2666
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Posted - 2013.01.30 16:11:00 -
[77] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Solstice Project wrote:Tauranon wrote:Psychotic Monk wrote:The tool you want to use to defend yourself in this situation is an insta-undock bookmark. If you google it I'm sure you'll find a guide to making one. Its a necessary tool - but not 100% reliable alone - have to be aware that your launches can be pretty crooked. If you are in a cloak warper you may be able to cloak and then go if your opponent doesn't accelerate after you properly during invuln. Tricky game though, always have to have it in the back of your mind to wait and redock if its not gunna work. I put a little too much faith in a crooked lauch (insta launch was straight enough) once against RSB'd opponents. Cant cloak within docking radius and whoever *waits* to instaundock is doing it wrong. Completely. Done right, one is uncatchable. If the OP docks at a station before making one ... well... too bad. I've tried that and its not possible from Australia - even in my other client, my ship is visible ~0.5 of a second before I'm allowed to initiate a warp, in the black screen the BM only allows me "approach". One imagines there is a hard sync occuring at the start of the space session, and client doesn't think I'm in space till the hard sync completes. Europeans are almost certainly seeing me for longer, and quite frankly against teenagers 0.5 a second is more than enough - they'll have me picked and will be pressing lock. The system allows a warp to be queued with a cloak at a gate, but obviously that is after the session change at my leisure. I apologize. I forgot that there are people out there who suffer from lag, which makes it hard to survive ... ... but really?
The only phase, at which one can be catched is during the alignment of the ship. The shorter that phase is (in seconds), the higher your chance of survival. What i always do is adjust the bookmark to the alignment of the ship i am in, until said alignmentphase is well below one second.
I dont actually see how lag can change any of this. Even with lag, you can always adjust your bookmark to compensate.
You should try. I had a lot of fun figuring out how to make perfect instaundocks. It cost me over a dozen pods ... that helped a lot! xD Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2544
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Posted - 2013.01.30 16:40:00 -
[78] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:I've tried that and its not possible from Australia - even in my other client, my ship is visible ~0.5 of a second before I'm allowed to initiate a warp, in the black screen the BM only allows me "approach". One imagines there is a hard sync occuring at the start of the space session, and client doesn't think I'm in space till the hard sync completes.
Europeans are almost certainly seeing me for longer, and quite frankly against teenagers 0.5 a second is more than enough - they'll have me picked and will be pressing lock.
The system allows a warp to be queued with a cloak at a gate, but obviously that is after the session change at my leisure.
You have 30 seconds to initiate warp to your insta-undock while under the protection of the undocking invulnerability. During that invulnerability, you cannot be locked, bumped, or damaged.
I don't think .5 second lag in a turn based game with 1s turns is going to prevent you from hitting your bookmark when you have 30 seconds to safely do it. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness
1824
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Posted - 2013.01.31 07:17:00 -
[79] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Psychotic Monk wrote:The tool you want to use to defend yourself in this situation is an insta-undock bookmark. If you google it I'm sure you'll find a guide to making one. Its a necessary tool - but not 100% reliable alone - have to be aware that your launches can be pretty crooked. If you are in a cloak warper you may be able to cloak and then go if your opponent doesn't accelerate after you properly during invuln. Tricky game though, always have to have it in the back of your mind to wait and redock if its not gunna work. I put a little too much faith in a crooked lauch (insta launch was straight enough) once against RSB'd opponents.
the further the BM the less correction you ship has to make to align
a BM at 100k thats off center requires more alignment than a BM at 200k thats off center by the same amount
at close to 300k you can damn near eyeball an insta that requires little or no alignment.
if you attempt to fly a straight line from the undock to 150+ away you will make a terrible bm as most ships drift down as they launch and then people over correct trying to fly in a straight line.
just get to your correct distance and then line up visually with the undock from there, otherwise you kill the whole thing trying to be too accurate
"You were the chosen one Anakin, you were supposed to bring order to the galaxy, not destroy it!" -Obi Wan (Ben) Kenobi -á |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
118
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Posted - 2013.01.31 08:32:00 -
[80] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:
I don't think .5 second lag in a turn based game with 1s turns is going to prevent you from hitting your bookmark when you have 30 seconds to safely do it.
I agree - I was just discussing why its probably impossible for me personally to hit the first timestep that occurs after I undock. Its not critical for not getting blown up, it just means one of solstice's suggestions won't work.
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Tauranon
Weeesearch
118
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Posted - 2013.01.31 08:48:00 -
[81] - Quote
Morganta wrote:
the further the BM the less correction you ship has to make to align
a BM at 100k thats off center requires more alignment than a BM at 200k thats off center by the same amount
at close to 300k you can damn near eyeball an insta that requires little or no alignment.
if you attempt to fly a straight line from the undock to 150+ away you will make a terrible bm as most ships drift down as they launch and then people over correct trying to fly in a straight line.
just get to your correct distance and then line up visually with the undock from there, otherwise you kill the whole thing trying to be too accurate
Station design was unfamiliar to me, bm was made by undocking without adjusting course and rolling 1000km or so. It appeared straight to me on the way out. I'll find the same type of station in highsec and experiment with that. Where I can make several launches safely I can BM them all and choose a central one to tune up my eyeballing.
thanks anyway.
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RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2547
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Posted - 2013.01.31 08:50:00 -
[82] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:RubyPorto wrote:
I don't think .5 second lag in a turn based game with 1s turns is going to prevent you from hitting your bookmark when you have 30 seconds to safely do it.
I agree - I was just discussing why its probably impossible for me personally to hit the first timestep that occurs after I undock. Its not critical for not getting blown up, it just means one of solstice's suggestions won't work.
I think his point was that there's no reason to wait out any portion of your invuln timer once you're undocked and you see you're undocked (your ship will almost certainly appear outside before you load grid, but that's true for everyone) and thus are able to hit warp.
Though there is some consideration to be had for waiting 10s (probably requiring Ctrl-Space*, docking radii being what they are) in nullsec if you suspect that there's a dic/Hic/bubble and a fair amount of DPS on field, so you can re-dock immediately if your warp fails.
*possibly defeating the whole point of having an insta-undock, but that's why, in my experience, they tend to be less useful in nullsec than lowsec. Still absolutely worth having and useful, just not to the extent that they are in LS. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2547
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Posted - 2013.01.31 08:55:00 -
[83] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Station design was unfamiliar to me, bm was made by undocking without adjusting course and rolling 1000km or so. It appeared straight to me on the way out. I'll find the same type of station in highsec and experiment with that. Where I can make several launches safely I can BM them all and choose a central one to tune up my eyeballing.
thanks anyway.
All stations that eject to the side (that I've seen) eject along one of the 4 cardinal directions exactly horizontally. Your Tactical overlay handily puts lines (well, of numbers) in each of the 4 cardinal directions that are exactly horizontal.
You can (in theory) make a workable insta-undock without ever docking at a station. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
544
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 08:57:00 -
[84] - Quote
How is this thread still open?
"Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012
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Tauranon
Weeesearch
118
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Posted - 2013.01.31 09:08:00 -
[85] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:
All stations that eject to the side (that I've seen) eject along one of the 4 cardinal directions exactly horizontally. Your Tactical overlay handily puts lines (well, of numbers) in each of the 4 cardinal directions that are exactly horizontal.
You can (in theory) make a workable insta-undock without ever docking at a station.
alright cheers, thats definately something to try.
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rareden
The Skunkworks
11
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Posted - 2013.01.31 20:56:00 -
[86] - Quote
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:rareden wrote:Ever herd of bookmarks? I have. I'd like to know how to make an undock bookmark, when it's your first undock from a station that blows you up. Please explain that, I am sure everyone would like to know. google it.
rareden wrote:If you don't want to be bumped then find another game or lean more about this one and stop crying about it.
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:As I have already posted, I don't mind if I am bumped. I'm not looking for rule changes, reimbursement, or anything other than clarification if this was a known mechanic not considered an exploit.
Its not an exploit its been around for years, its a viable mechanic, just like using agro mechanics to kill incursion bears back in the day.
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:I think you've failed to read the thread, and certainly, most of my posts. I got hung up on the part where you thought bumping could be an exploit. If it was an exploit then why would it still be around, why would thousands of players do it in risk of being banned for exploiting, use logic and reasoning and you could have avoided this whole thread. |
Dea della Morte
Perkone Caldari State
77
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Posted - 2013.02.01 02:59:00 -
[87] - Quote
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:Obviously, there is limited invulnerability when undocking, so then wouldn't that make bumping off of undock an exploit, and it so, why haven't CCP addressed it?
inb4 bad posts inb4 people who like to bump inb4 station games are worse
Im gona take a stab at what happened to your paladin today. |
Zoe Panala
Blobcats
104
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Posted - 2013.02.15 14:58:00 -
[88] - Quote
Worst immersion breaker is seeing 10 km3 of ships in a sphere not bigger than 3 km3. They are literally inside each other. 2nd worse is small ship with no mass continue the tradition of kamikazes - without the actual blowing up part. Give all ships real volume and real mass! You fly a Cynabal with no armor right into my battleship, you blow up. |
BoBoZoBo
Divine Beasts Nite's Reign
212
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Posted - 2013.02.15 17:36:00 -
[89] - Quote
It's not an exploit, but personally - I think bumping in general is just stupid and un-immersive. How the hell a frigate can so easily move something 1,000 times its own mass is beyond me. If they are going to allow that, then make sure at least the damn things takes some serious damage when doing it.
I have not tried it... but I'm pretty sure that if I rammed a sh!tty 1500 lb., 2 door, 4-cylinder car into a 5,000 tonne train, something bad is going to happen to me.
TL:DR Bumping is bullshit. Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite |
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