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Amaloy Jeqcovy
Tactical Vendor of Services and Goods Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
0
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Posted - 2013.01.28 00:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
There is a game mechanic that can be exploited to make certain that you have research slots available in an NPC station (and prevent all others from using it):
1. Buy a BPO for a medium ship, a BPO that you will not need. 2. Put the BPO in a research slot, for the maximum time, or at least 20 days. 3. At any point before the BPO research is done, cancel it and start it again. 4. Whenever you need a slot, cancel your unneeded BPO research to start what you do need done. 5. When the needed BPO research is done, restart at step 1 or 2. (This exploit is not needed in a POS, only in NPC stations.)
Possible ways to prevent this (again, not needed in a POS):
1. Make the cancel button unavailable after a few short hours (3 should be reasonable). Only the player that started the job may cancel it. 2. Log how many times an account will cancel/start jobs on one line (if cancellation is limited to 3 hours frequency will be high). 3. Flag BPO's as having been canceled too often, so that they cannot be canceled again. Inform the player of such with a popup. 4. Increase the number of lines available in NPC stations (hisec is too crowded for so few lines).
I believe this exploit to be very widely used, as I was told of it by many players that told me to do it (though I never have). This should also be considered griefing, as I have found no place to do ME research in hisec (even though the lines are there). First come first serve is great, except when I can't get served at all. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
795
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Posted - 2013.01.28 01:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
Or simply change rules to commit to the full 20 days even if it the job is cancelled.
Meaning: Put in BPO, set to 20 days. Ten minutes later, hit cancel. Go to install BPO again = "Sorry, but this line will not be available to you again until the full 20 days are up." EvE Forum Bingo |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1094
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Posted - 2013.01.28 01:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
Actually, right now, if you cancel a job, the line remains active for the full time. So it'll stay active for the full 20 days. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities.As well as mysql and CSV/XLS conversions of the Static Data Extract. |
Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
1086
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Posted - 2013.01.28 02:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Actually, right now, if you cancel a job, the line remains active for the full time. So it'll stay active for the full 20 days.
Nice coat.
With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
963
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Posted - 2013.01.28 02:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Not the first time this has come up recently. It still doesn't work. But go ahead and try it. I suggest a titan bpo though. Just to be sure. |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2512
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Posted - 2013.01.28 03:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Doesn't work. But it's a half decent way to mess with anyone not using a POS.
Go around queueing up Titan(other Capital BPOs work too, I guess) ME, PE, or Copy jobs with a low skilled alt (so they take as much time as possible). Cancel the job and you get your BPO and Alt's job slot back, but the station stays backed up. Then repeat. Costs about 700k ISK/line/month to block it for everyone (no, you can't use it either). This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Eric Raeder
No Fee Too High
21
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Posted - 2013.01.28 04:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
Good grief, I have way better things to do with lab my jobs than to commit them to just keeping a slot open, even if this did work. I have 6 freaking alts, and will soon train more, just to be able to run more lab jobs. Tying up my limited pool of lab slots just "waiting" for something useful to do seems crazy. I ALWAYS have something useful to do with lab slots. |
Lord Battlestar
CALIMA COLLABORATIVE Atrox Urbanis Respublique Abundatia
16
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Posted - 2013.01.28 05:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
And this is why I use POSs, I can only grief myself |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
138
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Posted - 2013.01.28 08:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
When you go to cancel a job, you get explicitly told that cancelling the job will not free up the slot. There's sometimes a tool top on the character selection screen that says the same thing.
The people telling you to do this are either clueless or messing with you. |
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
186
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Posted - 2013.01.28 10:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Or simply remove research slots from high sec. Kugutsumen - My signature insures that my post is always read by an ISD or Dev, does yours? |
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Mortimer H
Terrorists of Dimensions Free 2 Play
1
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Posted - 2013.01.28 13:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
In the Forge lines even in low-sec are now busy for 25 days. Congrats, research service went up in value. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
515
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Posted - 2013.01.28 13:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Or simply remove research slots from high sec.
Or simply make null sec player owned facilities better for player run corporations/alliances in this game pretending to be a player content game but having worst facilities/mods/structures than NPC.
How about that?
Gò¡Gê¬Gò«n+ên+¦n++n+¦n+ëGò¡Gê¬Gò«-á don't haten++ |
Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
139
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Posted - 2013.01.28 15:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
Clearly the OP is either a. Trolling trying to get people to tie up a bunch of research slots, or b. an idiot who has never actually tried this method.
I am voting for both a and b. |
Batelle
Concordiat
135
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Posted - 2013.01.28 15:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
moran Fighting is Magic |
Dasola
Rookie Empire Citizens Rookie Empire
137
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Posted - 2013.01.28 18:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
im pretty sure discussion of exploits is bannable ofence in forum. I do hope you did petition this under game bugs. [Insert something funny or smart here]
Good lord has set me on path, sometimes im confused about what he wants from me. But path leads on, towards why he placed me on this wonderfull planet... |
Amaloy Jeqcovy
Tactical Vendor of Services and Goods Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
0
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Posted - 2013.01.29 04:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
For those of you that posted here to troll: go away and let the adults talk now. Your judgmental comments on me instead of critical thinking on the subject matter add nothing and make you look like an idiot. No amount of arguing this point will change that.
I am simply pointing out something that is OBVIOUSLY broken, and it seems there has been only half a lazy attempt to fix it (from what I read here, no an exploit, just easy to grief). Again, I did not try it.
RubyPorto wrote:Doesn't work. But it's a half decent way to mess with anyone not using a POS.
Go around queueing up Titan(other Capital BPOs work too, I guess) ME, PE, or Copy jobs with a low skilled alt (so they take as much time as possible). Cancel the job and you get your BPO and Alt's job slot back, but the station stays backed up. Then repeat. Costs about 700k ISK/line/month to block it for everyone (no, you can't use it either).
You seem to understand what I'm saying. |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2528
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Posted - 2013.01.29 04:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
Amaloy Jeqcovy wrote:For those of you that posted here to troll: go away and let the adults talk now. Your judgmental comments on me instead of critical thinking on the subject matter add nothing and make you look like an idiot. No amount of arguing this point will change that. I am simply pointing out something that is OBVIOUSLY broken, and it seems there has been only half a lazy attempt to fix it (from what I read here, no an exploit, just easy to grief). Again, I did not try it. RubyPorto wrote:Doesn't work. But it's a half decent way to mess with anyone not using a POS.
Go around queueing up Titan(other Capital BPOs work too, I guess) ME, PE, or Copy jobs with a low skilled alt (so they take as much time as possible). Cancel the job and you get your BPO and Alt's job slot back, but the station stays backed up. Then repeat. Costs about 700k ISK/line/month to block it for everyone (no, you can't use it either). You seem to understand what I'm saying.
Except that you don't get the slot back. So there's no exploit. And therefor, what I described is not at all what you were saying.
And reducing the ability of your competitors to do business using free, risk-free NPC research slots is not griefing, it's simply sound business practice.
There has been no attempt to fix something that is not a problem (duh).
And posting to explain that the entirety of your knowledge of the subject is, at best, second hand does not put you in a position where you can claim that other people look like idiots without looking like one yourself. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
349
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Posted - 2013.01.29 04:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Or simply remove research slots from high sec.
that would be hilarious, research only on dust planets haha |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2528
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Posted - 2013.01.29 04:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kara Books wrote:Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Or simply remove research slots from high sec. that would be hilarious, research only on dust planets haha
Honestly, for once I might have to agree with Brewlar.
I think NPC research slots are similar to NPC mineral buy/sell orders. They were useful while the game was young and CCP was unsure if players would be able to deal with an entirely player run market of something so basic, but now that players have shown that they can, it's time to let them go. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
LordPidey Adtur
Aloren Foundations
1
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Posted - 2013.01.29 08:40:00 -
[20] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Kara Books wrote:Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Or simply remove research slots from high sec. that would be hilarious, research only on dust planets haha Honestly, for once I might have to agree with Brewlar. I think NPC research slots are similar to NPC mineral buy/sell orders. They were useful while the game was young and CCP was unsure if players would be able to deal with an entirely player run market of something so basic, but now that players have shown that they can, it's time to let them go.
I have to disagree with this. There is no way to rent out PoS research slots through the UI to someone not in your corporation.
Bottom line is, right now, in order for my PoS to research someone else's blueprints, I need to either
1.) Be given the BPO, which means collateral must be paid and whatnot, and use MY skills. OR 2.) Let them into my corporation and give them roles, which means that he can shoot me in hisec, AND if there are multiple people researching at the same time... they can cancel EVERYONE's job.
Obviously neither of these are ideal. Once it becomes possible to lease my PoS slots without said problems, then I will agree. Until then, it is a poor idea. |
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RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2544
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Posted - 2013.01.30 05:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
LordPidey Adtur wrote:I have to disagree with this. There is no way to rent out PoS research slots through the UI to someone not in your corporation.
Bottom line is, right now, in order for my PoS to research someone else's blueprints, I need to either
1.) Be given the BPO, which means collateral must be paid and whatnot, and use MY skills. OR 2.) Let them into my corporation and give them roles, which means that he can shoot me in hisec, AND if there are multiple people researching at the same time... they can cancel EVERYONE's job.
Obviously neither of these are ideal. Once it becomes possible to lease my PoS slots without said problems, then I will agree. Until then, it is a poor idea.
Sure there is. Use an Alliance. There's an alliance called New Eden Research that does exactly that.
I definitely support a Hangar-by-Hangar Factory Manager role option.
By the way, using station slots changes none of the issues you raised in your 2). This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Kimo Khan
54
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Posted - 2013.01.30 16:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
Op is trying to trick people into spending money to fill up all the High sec research slots. There was another thread by Zerg Overmind for the same thing. |
KATASKOPOS
Aliastra Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2013.02.13 12:13:00 -
[23] - Quote
The Op is just pointning that anyone with even a single BPO can keep busy Invention/Copy/PE/ME lines on stations and DISENCOURAGE others to work were the busy lines are....
Its a very very old trick, beeing used for years now, on how to manipulate the avalability of the above mentioned industrial lines...
From the above it seems that its working as intented more likely and its not an exploit at all. A good suggestion should be, in a case of any job cancelation the character's job slot should remain busy for the whole time and maybe the very BPO/BPC used should remain unavalable as long as the slot itself of the factory on the station.
I supose the mechanic is set, as it is now because it covers the POSes factories too, where the ability to cancel long lasting jobs and unanchor everything in case of emergency, applies.Oterwise anyone with even a single online lab would be a subject of wardec, in the attempt the attackers to hit economicaly by losing BPOs and or BPCs (hint hint Tech II BPOs). |
Kimo Khan
60
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Posted - 2013.02.14 19:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
KATASKOPOS wrote: A good suggestion should be, in a case of any job cancelation the character's job slot should remain busy for the whole time and maybe the very BPO/BPC used should remain unavalable as long as the slot itself of the factory on the station.
That is exactly what happens. It even tells you that canceling the job will not return materials (except Blueprint) and will not free up any time. |
Emma Royd
Maddled Gommerils
198
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Posted - 2013.02.14 20:10:00 -
[25] - Quote
KATASKOPOS wrote:Oterwise anyone with even a single online lab would be a subject of wardec, in the attempt the attackers to hit economicaly by losing BPOs and or BPCs (hint hint Tech II BPOs).
Anyone who's anyone DOES NOT STORE BPO'S IN THE LAB so in the event of a wardec the BPO stays nice and safe locked down in the station the pos is in.
You might find BPC's in labs which are have just been copied, or even T2 BPC which have just been invented, but as for BPO's then extremely unlikely, and as for T2 BPO's then I would go as far as saying no chance whatsoever of them being found in a lab that you've just shot.
and nice necropost, a couple of weeks old and you dragged it back from the depths. |
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