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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
100
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Posted - 2011.11.22 03:27:00 -
[361] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:The industrialists will just have to accept that they're going to get blown up once in awhile. Well they don't, and that's why we get threads like this. |
ShipToaster
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
16
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Posted - 2011.11.22 05:15:00 -
[362] - Quote
Thorn Galen wrote:I have sat back and have tried to come-up with a proper, functional solution to this problem. One that does not require policing by CCP. I am coming-up blank, I have no solution, no ideas which could be implemented in code.
Good grief, the mechanics of it are a nightmare! Sit back and try it, I dare you. Anyone out there with a viable, functional solution that can be coded ?
It's so easy for us to complain, it's way more difficult to find a working solution though. The current situation is horrible, but what to do ? Policing it actively with GM's is not a good answer, it apparently never worked properly anyway.
The solution of wardecs depends on how you define the problem and what you see as the failures of the current system. Three problems are easy to fix.
1. Dropping to avoid wardecs. ISK penalty applied to corps and players who do this. Pay it to attackers as a penalty for additional fun and games.
2. Dec shields. This exploit was introduced with the patch that scaled war dec fees depending on number of wars declared. Remove the X Aliiance, or Privateer Alliance, nerf. Flat fees but remember not everyone does incursions and is isk rich so dont price wars out of reach of even the smallest groups.
3. Joining in space. Remove this but keep leave in space. This fixes the last of the petitionable offences in wardecs.
These are the most basic fixes required and the level of code changes compared to other suggestions is minimal.
Not a problem but change the name of wardecs to something else so people dont keep thinking in terms of classical set piece wars with defined victory/loss conditions as this is not something a sandbox game needs. Oh, and post somewhere that you actually pay CONCORD to sanction the war and that people are not bribing CONCORD in any way to let them fight illegal wars. Dont get mad, get EVEn. |
Lithalnas
Privateers Privateer Alliance
6
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Posted - 2011.11.22 05:28:00 -
[363] - Quote
Unless i am totally mistaken, the unsticky of this thread means the discussion is now closed? How to build a PC for EVE thread (by Akira T) http://eve-search.com/thread/1559734-0/page/1
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Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
322
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Posted - 2011.11.22 05:40:00 -
[364] - Quote
Lithalnas wrote:Unless i am totally mistaken, the unsticky of this thread means the discussion is now closed? No. That would have been the locking of the thread.
Today I lost my common sense, It slipped away between Amamake and Rens, I think it happened in highsec, Using a Brutix to gank a Providence. -- Flunk |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
67
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Posted - 2011.11.22 06:25:00 -
[365] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Lithalnas wrote:Unless i am totally mistaken, the unsticky of this thread means the discussion is now closed? No. That would have been the locking of the thread.
Discussion is still opened. Yet it will change nothing until overhaul of wardec mechanism. |
ShipToaster
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
18
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Posted - 2011.11.25 11:43:00 -
[366] - Quote
Anything happening on the wardec fixing front? Griefing CCP - Bounties for E-Uni Ganking: 4 days to get in on the action!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=343354#post343354 |
Prince Kobol
69
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Posted - 2011.11.25 12:23:00 -
[367] - Quote
For me personally the problem becomes when you have a group of ex-null sec players, all have 40mil+ SP, war dec'ing a small corp of players who mostly are under a year old.
They stand no chance of fighting these guys... not one.
There only real options are to either drop from the corp, don't log on other then to update their skills or just quit.
I have no problem with war decs as such (other then they are way way way too cheap) but its more when you get these types of mismatches.
How do you solve a problem this.. I honestly don't have any idea and I don't think CCP do either.
Before I started to play Eve I had this idea in my head that High Sec wars were between indy / manufacturing corps fighting for resources, to stop their competition etc etc.
What I didn't realise was that most high sec wars are just basically a lot of bored, Highly SP Pilots with a **** load of isk, (who usually have got their ass handed to them in null / low at some point) picking fights with noobs.
I equate it to a group of adults going into a nursery (kindergarten) and picking fights with 2 - 4 yr olds.
Either way we need high sec wars but how to stop the stomping.. your guess is good as mine.
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Molly Molotov
Sunshine In A Cup
9
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Posted - 2011.11.25 12:25:00 -
[368] - Quote
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Lithalnas wrote:Unless i am totally mistaken, the unsticky of this thread means the discussion is now closed? No. That would have been the locking of the thread. Discussion is still opened. Yet it will change nothing until overhaul of wardec mechanism.
I'm not sure if forum discussion has ever changed anything.
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Rellik B00n
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage
31
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Posted - 2011.11.25 12:52:00 -
[369] - Quote
Molly Molotov wrote:I'm not sure if forum discussion has ever changed anything.
check the average number of players logged in to EvE at the minute then take a second to rethink your answer. |
Molly Molotov
Sunshine In A Cup
9
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Posted - 2011.11.25 13:18:00 -
[370] - Quote
Rellik B00n wrote:Molly Molotov wrote:I'm not sure if forum discussion has ever changed anything. check the average number of players logged in to EvE at the minute then take a second to rethink your answer.
i dun think dat CCP evar heard playas on da forum and did change cuz of dem ya heard me?
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ShipToaster
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
18
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Posted - 2011.11.25 14:06:00 -
[371] - Quote
Molly Molotov wrote:Rellik B00n wrote:Molly Molotov wrote:I'm not sure if forum discussion has ever changed anything. check the average number of players logged in to EvE at the minute then take a second to rethink your answer. i dun think dat CCP evar heard playas on da forum and did change cuz of dem ya heard me?
1/10 Griefing CCP - Bounties for E-Uni Ganking: 4 days to get in on the action!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=343354#post343354 |
Dutarro
Matari Munitions The Fendahlian Collective
19
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Posted - 2011.11.25 14:17:00 -
[372] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:For me personally the problem becomes when you have a group of ex-null sec players, all have 40mil+ SP, war dec'ing a small corp of players who mostly are under a year old.
They stand no chance of fighting these guys... not one.
There only real options are to either drop from the corp, don't log on other then to update their skills or just quit.
There are other options. Find other enemies of your attackers and team up with them. Scatter your corp members far across the EVE universe, so that your enemies have to go 30 jumps for each kill. Move to low sec or wormhole space, where war targets are no more or less dangerous than any other player. And of course there are the less honorable, but now CCP-sanctioned tactics of corp-flipping (making a new corp and moving all members to it), dec-scraping (joining an alliance then quitting it) and dec-shielding (dec'ing yourself with bogus alt corps to drive up the cost). All of these are within reach of a character a couple of months old.
A corp, even the newest corp, can deal with an occasional war, and may even find it challenging and fun. The only problem with the war dec system IMO is that some new corps can become almost perpetual war targets, dec'ed by one enemy after another so that they rarely are at peace. At that point, many of the members realize they will never be able to play EVE the way they want (except maybe in an NPC corp) and quit the corp or quit EVE altogether.
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Farrina
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2011.11.27 03:19:00 -
[373] - Quote
Quote:you don't understand "griefing" as defined by the devs...
Except the Devs don't run the game. The players do. |
Rellik B00n
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage
34
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Posted - 2011.11.27 11:20:00 -
[374] - Quote
Molly Molotov wrote:Rellik B00n wrote:Molly Molotov wrote:I'm not sure if forum discussion has ever changed anything. check the average number of players logged in to EvE at the minute then take a second to rethink your answer. i dun think dat CCP evar heard playas on da forum and did change cuz of dem ya heard me?
either: 1. this forum needs /sarcasm tags for your original point 2 it doesnt need /sarcasm tags because you were blatantly trolling and i got sucked in 3. you were completely serious and you have replied because you have just realised how dumb you are.
for personal reasons im going to choose 3, it being the option that makes me look less dumb.
now, any news on those wardec changes? |
ShipToaster
20
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Posted - 2011.11.28 06:05:00 -
[375] - Quote
Rellik B00n wrote:now, any news on those wardec changes?
Does not look like it.
Was there not a big push at CCP toward better communication for some reason earlier this year? it has been six weeks with still nothing said about this.
Farrina wrote:Quote:you don't understand "griefing" as defined by the devs... Except the Devs don't run the game. The players do.
Read the official definition of griefing in this game, not hard since it is a couple of paragraphs that say there is almost nothing that is officially griefing except for baiting noobs (and now taking advantage of them in the noob channel). Griefing CCP - Bounties for E-Uni Ganking: 3 days to get in on this action!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=343354#post343354 |
Lord Zeel
Port Royal Buccaneers
8
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Posted - 2011.11.28 07:12:00 -
[376] - Quote
Posting in an epic griefer tears thread. Please continue. |
ShipToaster
21
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Posted - 2011.11.30 15:04:00 -
[377] - Quote
Any updates?
Patch Notes wrote:Insurance is no longer paid out for players who are killed by CONCORD.
Does this mean that if players are killed by other players before CONCORD can do so that the insurance is still paid out? Griefing CCP - Bounties for E-Uni Ganking: action continues.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=343354#post343354 |
Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution
83
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Posted - 2011.12.01 02:37:00 -
[378] - Quote
ShipToaster wrote:Any updates? Patch Notes wrote:Insurance is no longer paid out for players who are killed by CONCORD. Does this mean that if players are killed by other players before CONCORD can do so that the insurance is still paid out? Taking that to the logical conclusion - does it mean incurance is not paid out when concord get the FINAL blow, or just if they are on the killmail???
Fix Faction Warfare CCP!!! |
The Zerg Overmind
Rule Reversal Dec Shield
55
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Posted - 2011.12.01 02:52:00 -
[379] - Quote
Posting in a thread that has made my existence possible. If anyone wants to abuse these bugs, feel free to contact me and we'll get you started down the path. Free Wardec Removal |
Tylerskji
Alans Crackbah
0
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Posted - 2011.12.03 20:26:00 -
[380] - Quote
Useful service to us smaller corps with no way to defend ourselves to grief corps other than pay stupid amounts of money to merc corps.
I support this |
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Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution
83
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Posted - 2011.12.04 00:30:00 -
[381] - Quote
Tylerskji wrote:Useful service to us smaller corps with no way to defend ourselves to grief corps other than pay stupid amounts of money to merc corps.
I support this
That is complete and utter crap
1) You miss out on the most fun thing to do in Eve 2) These so called "grief" corps actually reward people who fight back and try with isk/replacement ships and will teach them about PvP 3) You can potentially make friends who will counter dec the next time your corp gets a dec. 4) You've shown your corp members that your corp lacks the spine/guts to tough it out and would rather run from a challenge
Fix Faction Warfare CCP!!! |
Rellik B00n
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage
44
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Posted - 2011.12.04 04:13:00 -
[382] - Quote
posting in an unstuck sticky. IF post = alt AND subject is positive for goons THEN assume goon alt post. |
Russell Casey
One Ton Reverberation Project
112
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Posted - 2011.12.04 05:26:00 -
[383] - Quote
Farrina wrote:Quote:you don't understand "griefing" as defined by the devs... Except the Devs don't run the game. The players do.
False. Helicity learned this the hard way when he tried telling one of them to DIAF. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
71
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Posted - 2011.12.04 07:51:00 -
[384] - Quote
Russell Casey wrote:Farrina wrote:Quote:you don't understand "griefing" as defined by the devs... Except the Devs don't run the game. The players do. False. Helicity learned this the hard way when he tried telling one of them to DIAF.
Sorry they got your hopes up, but if you hadn't heard, Helicity's back.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=459247#post459247
IIRC, it was due to popular uproar by the players. So what lesson was learned? |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
421
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Posted - 2011.12.04 08:00:00 -
[385] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Russell Casey wrote:Farrina wrote:Quote:you don't understand "griefing" as defined by the devs... Except the Devs don't run the game. The players do. False. Helicity learned this the hard way when he tried telling one of them to DIAF. Sorry they got your hopes up, but if you hadn't heard, Helicity's back. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=459247#post459247IIRC, it was due to popular uproar by the players. So what lesson was learned? Nothing at all to do with the players. CCP's bans are rarely permanent. She was punished (as they saw it), she was allowed back after a period of time. Banning is simply a short prison sentence ... there are rarely life sentences and executions.
Today I lost my common sense, It slipped away between Amamake and Rens, I think it happened in highsec, Using a Brutix to gank a Providence. -- Flunk |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1144
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Posted - 2011.12.04 08:13:00 -
[386] - Quote
Russell Casey wrote:Farrina wrote:Quote:you don't understand "griefing" as defined by the devs... Except the Devs don't run the game. The players do. False. Helicity learned this the hard way when he tried telling one of them to DIAF.
Helicity's ban had nothing to do with Hulkageddon, your point? |
JC Anderson
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
128
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Posted - 2011.12.04 08:22:00 -
[387] - Quote
Andski wrote:Russell Casey wrote:Farrina wrote:Quote:you don't understand "griefing" as defined by the devs... Except the Devs don't run the game. The players do. False. Helicity learned this the hard way when he tried telling one of them to DIAF. Helicity's ban had nothing to do with Hulkageddon, your point?
I think he just meant that the ban was given out by a dev after her message to DIAF was directed at one.. In reply to, "players run the game not the devs." |
ShipToaster
21
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Posted - 2011.12.06 20:04:00 -
[388] - Quote
Approaching two months and still nothing on this.
Griefing CCP - Bounties for E-Uni Ganking: action continues.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=343354#post343354 |
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
677
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Posted - 2011.12.06 20:11:00 -
[389] - Quote
ShipToaster wrote:Approaching two months and still nothing on this.
Wow... two months and I still don't care.
If someone escapes your dec, too effing bad. Dec someone else. Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
2
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Posted - 2011.12.07 19:37:00 -
[390] - Quote
Permit me to ramble a moment, so as to make some small use of the subscription money I so foolishly gave to CCP, thinking that their work on 'FiS' represented a resurgence of interest in the game, only to find that in the background they are hammering the final nails into the coffin of the most populated area of the game.
When I used to post on this forum regularly, 'griefer' was a dirty word, and you'd immeditely get shot down for using it. Now I come back and find that anyone who wants to blow up spaceships in highsec is now a 'griefer' according to the majority of posters. That pretty much tells you everything you need to know about where CCP is taking the game.
But since people are being Wrong On The Internet, here I am.
"Griefing"
No. There is no such thing as griefing in EVE, or rather, the term applies only to a very small number of edge cases, as defined by CCP. Blowing up ships is a perfectly natural thing to want to do in the game, as is going after the easy targets. When I play Battlefield, and I run into someone who is new and bad at the game, I kill them. That is not 'griefing', that is playing the game. Shooting people is fun. The same holds true of EVE. Blowing up ships is fun (so I'm told).
"Noob Stomping"
You might say, "noob stomping is just dumb and is bad for the game" and I would agree, but it's not an issue, since actual noobs are in NPC corps, and thus can only be suicide ganked. To be wardecced, you must start or join a player corp, voluntarily opening yourself to the possibility of a wardec. By joining a player corp, you are declaring that you are stepping out of the kiddy pool. In this way, all wardecs are in fact consensual; nobody can wardec unless you choose to be in a player corp, just as they cannot kill you unless you choose to undock, or scam you unless you choose to chase free lunches.
"It's a sandbox"
But then, some bright spark in the back pipes up, EVE is a sandbox, so I should be able to do whatever I want. EVE is indeed a sandbox, however it is a Multiplayer Sandbox. The definition of a sandbox is not "I can do whatever I want", it is that rather than providing a specific experience, the game provides an environment and tools with which to craft your own experience. For single-player games, these definitions are functionally the same. The problem with a multiplayer sandbox is that not only can you do whatever you want, so can everyone else. You want to mine in highsec in complete peace? The game lets you. It's the other players that are the problem.
The hypocrisy of demanding the freedom to do what you like, while simultaneously demanding or celebrating the curtailment of other people's playstyles should be self-evident, but apparently it's not.
"EVE isn't a PvP game"
Yes, it really is. Being, as it is, a multiplayer sandbox, it is a shared environment which we all inhabit together and all affect. For any of it to be non-PvP, all of it would have to be non-PvP. Even if CCP made it so it was impossible to blow up spaceships in highsec, highsec would still affect the rest of the game just by being there. As long as we are all playing the same game, the guy in the corner mining endlessly has an effect on the guys fighting a war in the other corner. And so, requests to be able to act with impunity will be not be received well by those who actually understand the game.
"But people want PvE"
If people really want PvE, they are in the wrong game. End of story. But there is a positive feedback loop here. Carebears join a harsh PvP game. Carebears whine en masse (in the way that only carebears can whine) that there is harshness and PvP in this harsh PvP game. CCP tone down the harshness, and reduce the PvP opportunities. Being a more 'accessible' game, more carebears join. The whining gets louder. More nerfs. It goes on and on in a never ending cycle, eventually leading to PvP being marginalised in the areas carebears inhabit.
In this way they not only impact other people's playstyles, but also change the fundamental nature of the game, all the while whining about how everyone should be able to play however they want. And the worst part is that game like EVE are in the minority, and yet carebears insist on coming here and trying to convert it into one of their massively singleplayer games.
And this is what irks me (since the rule 'change' doesn't affect me). Carebears are the most catered to group in the game. Sure it was originally designed to be harsh, but basically ever since launch, it has steadily been getting less and less so. People play a game which doesn't cater to them, and whine and whine until it is changed to cater to them, with their call to arms being "everyone should be able to play as they want". Hypocrisy or just stupidity? You decide.
You may argue that carebears should have a place to live in the game. Carebears in the sense of miners, traders and industrialists (such as myself) can find a home anywhere in the game. You think there is no industry in 0.0? Carebears in the sense of people who don't want meaningful player interaction have a place to ... |
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