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Takumi Vetinari
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Posted - 2003.07.14 16:26:00 -
[1]
Sorry if this has been covered before, but I thought I might bring it back into the open after the recent spate of theft from ore containers.
Would it not be a good idea to be able to place a 'scordite bomb' in a jettisoned container, which appears, to all intents and purposes, like a piece of scordite (or any other ore).
Now, I often see the argument that the theft of ore is not really theft at all, merely salvaging items which have been jettisoned into space. 'Finders keepers, losers weepers', if you will.
To that, I reply: it would not be me killing you (ie, no intervention from the police); it would be your fault for salvaging a bomb which destroys your ship next time you jump to warp/dock/etc.
A reasonable way to counteract the problem of theft? --
Takumi Vetinari, Founder PIE Inc
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Hardin
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Posted - 2003.07.14 16:47:00 -
[2]
Hehe it would certainly make ore thievery a bit of a gamble.
If such bombs or 'sabotage kits' were reasonably pricey then they wouldn't automatically be in every jettisoned can and it would be up to thieves to play can Rusian roulette.
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Ruffles
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Posted - 2003.07.15 12:18:00 -
[3]
Its not just the theft, its the fact you can't retaliate to the theft, espeically if the person is in no corp.
If you attack them you aren't seen to be defending your assest, as much as the aggressor, so you take both Sec Rating hit and risk Police visits.
These thieves are just lazy people that can't be bothered to work to earn their own cash. Its a shame that the game mechanics back them 100% as you can't do anything about them.
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ULTIMA TREX
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Posted - 2003.07.15 12:49:00 -
[4]
it would be good if your in a 1.0 sector and he gets blown up coz of the bomb and it wouldnt be the miners fault so your rating wont take a hit :P. good idea
Edited by: ULTIMA TREX on 15/07/2003 12:49:44
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Lao Tzu
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Posted - 2003.07.15 14:37:00 -
[5]
Ok, I'll type slowly so you can understand.
It's....not....stealing..
It's...collecting...rubbish..
Jettison = throw away.
You don't have the right to a secure 27,000 unit container, that's what industrial ships, and teamwork are for.
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Bambyelf Nobleheart
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Posted - 2003.07.15 15:33:00 -
[6]
We have heard form the devs that they are in the process of making a can you can put a password on and can hold more then the standard jet can.
As far as the jet can being used for mining--I dont think that is what the programmers where thinking when they made the jet can option. I think they really meant to just use that to shoot a can out and free for all.
But somehow the cans got started to be used for mining, Not what they where originally inteded for. So now they devs are trying to come up with a new can with password wich is dedicated for mining but I think they relly want to test it--I think a corp would be a bit made if they mined a whole belt then they cant open their cans to take them back to base.
Just give it time the new cans will be out before you know it. |
Takumi Vetinari
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Posted - 2003.07.16 10:05:00 -
[7]
Ok, I'll type slowly so you can understand.
It's....not....stealing..
It's...collecting...rubbish..
I'm fully aware of this. That's why I said it wouldn't be me killing your ship, it would be the bomb you happened to pick up ;)
Edited by: Takumi Vetinari on 16/07/2003 10:06:22 --
Takumi Vetinari, Founder PIE Inc
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Lijah Reaper
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Posted - 2003.07.16 17:36:00 -
[8]
Nice ideas. I think that this should also be a way to plant a tracking device on a pirate ship for bounty hunters. Or, put a tracking device on one of your pieces of valuable equipment in case your ship is destroyed and that part survives, and is picked up by your killer.
Make the tracking devices activation password protected and a station only service. When the tracked ship passes by a CONCORD billboard, you would recieve mail saying where the ship was located. Additionally, the tracking device would have a chance of being detected on the tracked ship: showing up as a message like "Abnormal power signature detected" when passing by a billboard. This chance would depend on how good the tracking device was, and how good the electronics/engineering skills and perception stat of the tracked player was.
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Ascorbius
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Posted - 2003.07.16 17:52:00 -
[9]
I'm sorry, I don't agree that any sort of bomb should inflict damage against a target without the bomber incurring some sec penalty, it would just get abused. Pirates would drop these bombs in cans for some unwary traveller to pick up and then their ship explodes. So they pick up the cargo you had. They could do this in any space and not worry about their sec rating becoming reduced. They could even do it in front of the cops. It would be worse than people stealing ore.
If someone is stealing your ore, or rather, the ore that you mined (as you don't actually own it unless it's in your ship or in your station), then get some protection. Perhaps a friend could guard it for you while you fetch your indy. That's what everyone else does.
A can in space is just that. A can.
If someone else is taking from your can then you'll have to hurry up with your Indy.
Does your sec rating go down if you engage in combat with another player in high sec level space or if you kill them?
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Falnaerith
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Posted - 2003.07.16 20:42:00 -
[10]
I think it's a perfect idea. Who goes around in "some" countries picking up cans or pipes and ****? (In rl) Not many people b/c of the fact that even though unlikely, it might be a bomb.
Eve is full of people who would do that, it's not much different from shooting an unsuspecting traveller at a gate to leaving a bomb for them to get blown up with.
If you're traveling around, see some stuff, go and grab it. You know it's not yours, you take a chance by picking it up. This is a perfect idea to actually make looting dangerous.
As you say, the stuff is jettisoned. It's noboby's property. Therefore a plasma bomb hidden inside a container waiting to go off (Bypassing shields?) should be allright.
Personally i'd rather blow up my minerals/loot instead of letting somebody else make off with them after my hard work to get them.
-------Scenario-------
You keep a plasma bomb in amongst your minerals, have it key'd so that any1 outside your gang/corp/specific list will set it off harming their ship greatly and destroying the loot they are trying to get.
They have to go spend a couple mins refitting to repairers or just spending the isk.
Edited by: Falnaerith on 16/07/2003 20:43:55 ------------------- Basic truths? Idiots make us rich. - Some people are only alive because it is illegal to kill them. |
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Bambooza
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Posted - 2003.07.16 22:29:00 -
[11]
Lol, Ascorbius unfortunately I would have to agree with you in that pirates would completely use this to there advantage. I can just see piratesĘ booby-trapping jettisoned pods amongst loot pods.
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2003.07.17 01:39:00 -
[12]
Surely the whole point is that this "bomb" would only ever be able to be disguised as ore?
Hence, if it ain't yours, don't pick it up - if it is yours, great.
If a Pirate drops ore, hold on - what do you think that might be?
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Ascorbius
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Posted - 2003.07.17 11:56:00 -
[13]
How about, instead of a bomb that could be abused by nepharious types, having a 2 part device that you fit to your ship in a low energy slot. It has a small addon device which you deposit into the can, of which you could have many. The can(s) and your ship are then linked. The device would prevent others from opening the cargo pod completely, jamming any attempt to communicate with the can. The members of your corp or mining party would fit one of the ship devices so they could see inside the cans. You'd have to set up the control devices beforehand in a similar way to the gang system.. Only local people with a device would appear in the list.
Of course it would be hackable but in order to do it, the criminal would need a device, the skill to use it and a hacking skill. That would cost money and would deter some people from stealing from the cans.
And since the cans are then marked as yours by the transponder in the can, the police can be notified of a crime happening. If someone is taking from the can without permission i.e. with a hacked ship device, they would appear in high level systems making it safe. And their sec rating would go down.
The only reason that people can take from floating cans in space is because it's currently impossible to say that a crime is being committed. By putting a device into the can with your ore, you are laying claim to the can and the police know that a 3rd party taking from it is stealing from you.
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Dagant
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Posted - 2003.07.17 13:59:00 -
[14]
This is becoming a bit of a landmine problem...
To stop people steeling my childs toys out of the garden I'll make them all into small land mines...
This way the thieves will loose their hands when they steel them...
But what if the child from down the road picks it up innocently... Or the newbie who is looking for ore and finds an abandoned canister floating about in space with no one else about?
You've just killed an innocent!
And just because you didn't mean it to be them doesn't make it 'not your fault'... IT IS YOUR FAULT!!!
I'd say, when you eject cargo from your hold that you want, YOU are taking the risk of loosing it! I only do this when I'm with other Corp members.......
And no I'm not the type who robs other peoples pods... I'm only a newbie, I'd get caught!!!
Edited by: Dagant on 17/07/2003 14:03:45
You may see the cup as half full, others may see it as half empty... Me... I know the cup is twice as big as it needs to be!!! |
Falnaerith
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Posted - 2003.07.17 14:50:00 -
[15]
Quote: ------ Hence, if it ain't yours, don't pick it up - if it is yours, great. ------
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ EXACTLY!
It isn't so much a landmine in the garden, but a pipe bomb with a motion detection to tell when somebody is picking it up.
If you know it's there, you know how to handle it safely. If you don't, it'll get set off and you die.
I like the idea of the fitting being a remote for the bomb/security. Though a med slot would be better, as miners need all the low slots for extenders. ------------------- Basic truths? Idiots make us rich. - Some people are only alive because it is illegal to kill them. |
Falnaerith
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Posted - 2003.07.17 14:53:00 -
[16]
A second part as to the poor children who might come by these.
The only way a lesson will be learned is through pain. ie, burning a finger on a stove or things of that nature. If they get blown up a time or two, they will learn not to pick up things that arne't theirs.
*edit*
This will also save people the problem (somewhat) of newbies stealing loot while somebody is camping an area. It is even more dangerous now.
Cheap bp's for these will make it easy for miners to make their own, esp if they mine the minerals needed already.
Edited by: Falnaerith on 17/07/2003 14:55:29 ------------------- Basic truths? Idiots make us rich. - Some people are only alive because it is illegal to kill them. |
Falnaerith
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Posted - 2003.07.17 17:30:00 -
[17]
Dagant "This is becoming a bit of a landmine problem..."
There's no detonation radius. It doesnt go off until you actually open it up to grab it. Keep your grubby hands off it and you won't get hurt. ------------------- Basic truths? Idiots make us rich. - Some people are only alive because it is illegal to kill them. |
Pesti
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Posted - 2003.07.18 01:48:00 -
[18]
Hehe, gates surrounded by frozen corpses. It'd bring a new item Collecters.
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Ascorbius
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Posted - 2003.07.18 11:37:00 -
[19]
I think there are 2 issues here.
1, Preventing people from stealing ore from cans
2, Inflicting damage on other players without incurring a penalty.
I only have a problem with 2 as it would get abused and then the forums would light up with complaints.
A decent solution to 1 needs to be found.
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Kelly
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Posted - 2003.07.18 13:54:00 -
[20]
I see more can griefers shoot cargo than steal the contents personally. Sure, the secure cans are reported to have more hit points and survive longer.. this only means the griefer will use bigger guns or stay longer. If you shoot another persons mining drone by accident, you get mobbed by the cops.. so should it be for secure cans... If they are not "property" like drones or your ship, and shooting them doesn't count as a security hit for the shooter, then I will not use them...
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