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Baron Dmitri Harkonnen
State War Academy Caldari State
28
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Posted - 2013.02.01 08:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
Seems no matter what you do someone is passionately against you, for instance nullsec vs highsec players.
Don't people realise that EVE is meant to accommodate different playstyles?
This is pre-school all over again T_T
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Cannibal Kane
Praetorian Cannibals
1353
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Posted - 2013.02.01 08:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
The trick is to not let the whole null > low > high thing bother you. Play the game you want to play and ignore what everybody tells you on how you should be playing it. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2549
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Posted - 2013.02.01 08:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sure.
And I think most people understand that.
What many people don't seem to understand is that while EVE is meant to accommodate all playstyles, but not in isoltation. That means that "using the actions within the scope of the game mechanics to mess with guys who do x*" is a perfectly valid playstyle (this can also go recursive by messing with the people who mess with the people who do x, then Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo).
So, "mining without being bothered or interrupted" might be a goal (unlikely to be achieved, but v0v), but it cannot be a supported "playstyle," the way "mining" can be**.
* for all x within the scope of the game mechanics except x = "being a newbie" **Actually, it can be. The SISI server rules prohibit non-consensual PvP of all forms. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Schmata Bastanold
Serene Vendetta Li3 Federation
578
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Posted - 2013.02.01 08:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:Seems no matter what you do someone is passionately against you, for instance nullsec vs highsec players.
That's part of that "cold harsh universe" from Eve ads. And as in all ads that too is only half true at best. At the end of a day we all just wanna hug and hot cocoa.
I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Tiberius Murderhorne
CONTRATTO IMPERIAL LEGI0N
67
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Posted - 2013.02.01 08:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
the real bummer is that CCP seem to listen to the loud ones..... so ignoring it is not always an option....
Im just going to drop this here....
1. POS's 2. Supers
that is all....
Cheers Tib Disclaimer : My posting does not always reflect my Corps views or my allience views.... Infact sometimes it does not even reflect my views! |
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
38
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Posted - 2013.02.01 08:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
That polarity exists in the real world too.
Partly I think it's media training.
Thoughtful media is boring media.
Divisive, emotional media is more fun, or as marketers call it, engaging.
So we've become used to that sort of style of thinking and debate.
There are probably other reasons but that would be too thoughtful to explore.
So stop being so wishy washy, grab an opinion and hold onto it for dear life!
Yell it in people's faces and maybe we can all make the newscast on the billboard outside. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
1212
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Posted - 2013.02.01 11:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote: This is pre-school all over again T_T
You have a summary of all human behaviour right there. It's no different at work, politics, religion, marriage. People behave a lot less maturely and a lot less intelligently that we actually think we do. We are in constant denial of our basic instincts which push us towards behaviours we know we're not supposed to indulge in but do it anyway. Because it feels good.
EVE is certainly no different. It's a canvas upon which we paint behaviour we'd like to imitate in real life, but can't. So you want to run a multi-billion industrial conglomerate. I bet you that you don't do that in real life. Although you'd like to. Me I like to go around building things and killing people. I can't do that in real life either. Both are valid playstyles. I don't have a problem with you and you don't have a problem with me.
Until you tell me I have to sit in front of rocks and mine or shoot red crosses, and that I'm not allowed to kill you. It's like if I told you that you have to go shoot people. No, you go your way, I'll go mine, and our paths will probably cross at the opposite ends of a gun or a trade transaction. |
TheBlueMonkey
Don't Be a Menace That Red Alliance
368
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Posted - 2013.02.01 11:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nothing wrong with playing however you want to play just as long as you don't scream and shout for game breaking mechanic changes to facilitate your play style.
Say, you wanted to mine in 0.0 in a cruiser and not get hassled by NPC or other players.
Getting CCP to change the game to facilitate this would be oh so very wrong.
Play how you want, just don't cry when you do things badly and lose. |
Solstice Project
T E R R O R I S T S
2677
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Posted - 2013.02.01 12:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
I agree.
Instead of using words on the forums, people should use 1400mm ammunition. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Dave Stark
1781
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Posted - 2013.02.01 12:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
the entire argument is just a result of the fact that the game is a sandbox and no single feature can be considered in isolation, knock on effects to other areas of the game must be considered and hence where people come up with these "issues" against play styles, be they imaginary or real. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |
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Abrazzar
652
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Posted - 2013.02.01 12:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
No. No. You don't understand.
My opinion is fact and you are objectively wrong. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
231
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Posted - 2013.02.01 13:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
Contrary to popular "bad" translation few actually make this A vs. B argument. The majority are irritated that A mechanics are changed which affect B play style. The short sited nature historically of CCP's patching is really the root cause. They are getting better however and I think in big part thanks to a barage of overly opinionated players who engage in conversation combat on the forums and various other places of discussion.
Suffice to say if there is one truth to the argument is that play style A always negatively impacts play style B and vice versus regardless of what A and B represents. By design, there is nothing you can do in Eve without screwing someone in someway wether directly or indirectly, more often than not regardless of whether they are even aware or not that they got screwed. Something as simple as a bunch of newbies mining in high sec can have a direct impact on Null Sec warefare when you follow the various domino effects that ripple through the game. Simply by undocking, your screwing someone over and as such the vary nature of Eve is conflict and this spills out into discussions, in game politics and CCP development decesions about how to change the game.
Its a pretty complex system when you put it under a microscope. The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub.-á |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2174
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Posted - 2013.02.01 13:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Eve is real. v0v |
dexington
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
559
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Posted - 2013.02.01 13:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kryss Darkdust wrote:Its a pretty complex system when you put it under a microscope.
And sometimes it just boils down to a lot of while about the grass being greener on the other side. GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥ |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
1213
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Posted - 2013.02.01 13:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
dexington wrote:Kryss Darkdust wrote:Its a pretty complex system when you put it under a microscope. And sometimes it just boils down to a lot of while about the grass being greener on the other side.
Sometimes the grass _is_ greener on the other side. Speaking as a person who has switched sides, I mean. |
Ravnik
Choke-Hold
4580
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Posted - 2013.02.01 13:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
If you read any forums for any game, you will always find people against other people's views. Conflict is a part of human nature im afraid. The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long - and you have burned so very, very brightly.......... |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1740
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Posted - 2013.02.01 14:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
Becaue obviously, no one has legit issues.
It's not that a bunch of people who played in high sec and then moved to null, actually see and experience problems with game mechanics.
It's because we hate high sec.
Debate is not "preschool" but the childish "it's a personal vendetta" several of you in this thread are expressing, most certainly is.
Lot's of hypocrits around here, including the OP and his very own hypocritical thread.
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Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
927
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Posted - 2013.02.01 14:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:Seems no matter what you do someone is passionately against you, for instance nullsec vs highsec players. It's a stupid sort of argument imagined by carebears; it doesn't really exist. No one is "passionately against you", but they may have valid reasons to propose a nerf to features you use (for instance, a belief that high-sec is way too good for the risks you encounter there.) If you're not already part of a bloc, this is the best guy for CSM8. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1258
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Posted - 2013.02.01 14:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:Seems no matter what you do someone is passionately against you, for instance nullsec vs highsec players. It's a stupid sort of argument imagined by carebears; it doesn't really exist. No one is "passionately against you", but they may have valid reasons to propose a nerf to features you use (for instance, a belief that high-sec is way too good for the risks you encounter there.)
Bad Karl, I had to highlight an excellent post because you refused to do so, You should also use all caps, although that won't make any difference because the paranoid "they are out to get me types" won't listen to the truth no matter how you say it .
But seriously, what you wrote is the gospel truth. People (like the OP) cling to such ideas because it's a defense mechanism against painful results (like the pain of being wrong lol). It's easier to think the other guy is bad/stupid/evil or has an agenda than it is to actually try to understand where they are coming from.
It's very irritating, especially when you explain to these nimrods exactly what the motivation for an idea is, only to be met with "nah, i just think you don't like my playstyle". I swear i wanna reach through the internets and choke a fool when they say that |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
270
|
Posted - 2013.02.01 14:47:00 -
[20] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Sure.
And I think most people understand that.
What many people don't seem to understand is that while EVE is meant to accommodate all playstyles, but not in isoltation. That means that "using the actions within the scope of the game mechanics to mess with guys who do x*" is a perfectly valid playstyle (this can also go recursive by messing with the people who mess with the people who do x, then Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo).
So, "mining without being bothered or interrupted" might be a goal (unlikely to be achieved, but v0v), but it cannot be a supported "playstyle," the way "mining" can be**.
* for all x within the scope of the game mechanics except x = "being a newbie" **Actually, it can be. The SISI server rules prohibit non-consensual PvP of all forms.
It isn't those of us that want to mine without being F'd with that come to the boards demanding the game be changed to fit our playstyle. What I see are the people demanding the removal of NPC corps so that anyone can be wardec'ed at any time, the nerfing of high sec to force people out from under CONCORD protection, demanding the removal of local, demanding...., demanding... demanding...
I think the game has a great rule set right now, that allows people to be messed with, anywhere, anytime, but in most places that "messing with" is limited without consequences.
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Baron Dmitri Harkonnen
State War Academy Caldari State
34
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Posted - 2013.02.01 14:49:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:Seems no matter what you do someone is passionately against you, for instance nullsec vs highsec players. It's a stupid sort of argument imagined by carebears; it doesn't really exist. No one is "passionately against you", but they may have valid reasons to propose a nerf to features you use (for instance, a belief that high-sec is way too good for the risks you encounter there.) Bad Karl, I had to highlight an excellent post because you refused to do so, You should also use all caps, although that won't make any difference because the paranoid "they are out to get me types" won't listen to the truth no matter how you say it . But seriously, what you wrote is the gospel truth. People (like the OP) cling to such ideas because it's a defense mechanism against painful results (like the pain of being wrong lol). It's easier to think the other guy is bad/stupid/evil or has an agenda than it is to actually try to understand where they are coming from. It's very irritating, especially when you explain to these nimrods exactly what the motivation for an idea is, only to be met with "nah, i just think you don't like my playstyle". I swear i wanna reach through the internets and choke a fool when they say that
It seems you are one of these people, while I have you here please let me know what goes through your mind as you get these emotional feelings?? I am deeply curious! Maybe I could enjoy the game more if I was more like you? You said you wish you could reach through the internets and choke people like us? What illicit's such emotion? I can honestly say that no one on the internet has made me want to do that! LOL!
Maybe it's just the way I was brought up but I was taught not to judge people. You seem to judge but at the same time get a deeper...SOMETHING that may make this game a better experience?
I await your response.
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Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
929
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Posted - 2013.02.01 14:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:You should also use all caps I only use cruise control on my morning commute.
Jenn aSide wrote:It's very irritating, especially when you explain to these nimrods exactly what the motivation for an idea is, only to be met with "nah, i just think you don't like my playstyle". "YOU DONT LIKE MY PLAYSTYLE" is an obvious troll meant to shut down and redirect an argument.
Jenn aSide wrote:I swear i wanna reach through the internets and choke a fool when they say that Confirming that I sometimes want to "choke a fool" too. If you're not already part of a bloc, this is the best guy for CSM8. |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
407
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Posted - 2013.02.01 14:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:Seems no matter what you do someone is passionately against you, for instance nullsec vs highsec players. That's part of that "cold harsh universe" from Eve ads. And as in all ads that too is only half true at best. At the end of a day we all just wanna hug and hot cocoa. I didn't know that by "cold harsh universe" EVE ads meant "verbal duels on a level of a bunch of quarrelsome kindergarteners". Good thing that most of this cr*p stays on forum.
Oh, and Kane wins the thread. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
270
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Posted - 2013.02.01 14:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
TheBlueMonkey wrote:Nothing wrong with playing however you want to play just as long as you don't scream and shout for game breaking mechanic changes to facilitate your play style.
Say, you wanted to mine in 0.0 in a cruiser and not get hassled by NPC or other players.
Getting CCP to change the game to facilitate this would be oh so very wrong.
Play how you want, just don't cry when you do things badly and lose.
Or, the more common whine on the threads, you don't like that when you are hunting in low or null (or in a high sec war) that people safe up as soon as you appear in local. You come on the boards demanding the removal of local so that you can more easily kill people.. not realizing that the removal of local would mean that no one ever undocks in a non-PVP fleet in a dangerous situation.
People that want to kill easy targets that can't fight back, wardec a mining corp. But, no one from that mining corp ever loggs in or undocks during the war. So, you extend the war figuring that eventually they will get bored and come out. But instead, as soon as the war goes into a second week, and the miners drop out of corp into NPC corp, then go mining when you can't wardec them. So, they come on the boards demanding the removal of the NPC corps so that anyone can be wardeced at any time. Then they'll have to undock while at war, right? Nope. They will just quit playing this game.
Or, they see people making almost as much ISK running L4 missions in high sec as can be made in null ratting (except in a carrier that can make 2-3x what a high sec L4 runner can make). They demand all those L4s be moved to low sec where it would be easy pickings to gank those fat juicy PVE ships. All that would happen is that the carebear mission runners would become miners, or quit the game.
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
270
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Posted - 2013.02.01 15:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:That polarity exists in the real world too.
Partly I think it's media training.
Thoughtful media is boring media.
Divisive, emotional media is more fun, or as marketers call it, engaging.
If I read a thread that I don't have strong feelings about.. like say... wondering how much it would cost to go to fanfest. I have no interest in attending fanfest, so I'm highly unlikely to even read, let alone post in that thread. It soon falls off page 1, and then no one sees it anymore.
However, if there is a post about removing CONCORD or eliminating NPC corps... well, then I'm going to be interested, and I'm HIGHLY likely to post in that thread. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
271
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Posted - 2013.02.01 15:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:It's easier to think the other guy is bad/stupid/evil or has an agenda than it is to actually try to understand where they are coming from. It's very irritating, especially when you explain to these nimrods exactly what the motivation for an idea is, only to be met with "nah, i just think you don't like my playstyle". I swear i wanna reach through the internets and choke a fool when they say that
Motivation for the rule change. To make EVE a colder and harsher place for all.
Ummm... Why do you want all the carebears to quit playing?
Why can there not be a game that has different areas of space, with different rules, that accommodate different play styles?
If you want to PVP, there are places for that. If you want a high probability you won't be messed with too much, there is an area for that. What is wrong with that? |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
929
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Posted - 2013.02.01 15:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Ummm... Why do you want all the carebears to quit playing? Because they **** up the forums with their "GIEF US TRAMMUL IN EVE!" threads.
LHA Tarawa wrote:If you want to PVP, there are places for that. Nowhere in EVE is safe from PVP. I'm sure you read the CSM minutes, remember all that talk of making sure that, at the very least, suicide ganking doesn't get nerfed too hard? There's a reason for that. EVE is a PVP game through and through. If you don't want PVP, you should stop playing EVE. If you're not already part of a bloc, this is the best guy for CSM8. |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
838
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Posted - 2013.02.01 15:41:00 -
[28] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Sure.
And I think most people understand that.
What many people don't seem to understand is that while EVE is meant to accommodate all playstyles, but not in isoltation. That means that "using the actions within the scope of the game mechanics to mess with guys who do x*" is a perfectly valid playstyle (this can also go recursive by messing with the people who mess with the people who do x, then Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo).
So, "mining without being bothered or interrupted" might be a goal (unlikely to be achieved, but v0v), but it cannot be a supported "playstyle," the way "mining" can be**.
* for all x within the scope of the game mechanics except x = "being a newbie" **Actually, it can be. The SISI server rules prohibit non-consensual PvP of all forms.
This is a good post.
Take industry.
Null sec industry is totally rubbish at the moment, so what do you do?
Do you keep it worse then high sec but make it better then it is now? Well that makes no sense as it wont change anything, it will still be marginalised and people will continue to import from high sec. Nothing changes and null sec is unhappy.
Do you make it equal to high sec? Well this seems OK in theory but then you have the problem of low end minerals not really existing in Null Sec, which means you need to jump in a lot of raw materials, in which case you might as well import it all. Nothing changes and null sec is unhappy.
Do you make it better than high sec? Well this would certainly encourage industry in null, perhaps even convince some people to, dare I say it, leave high sec. The advantages in building in null offset the lack of minerals and boost industry, however High Sec players are essentially nerfed (because it's all relative). High sec players are unhappy.
Likewise you have gankers and carebears.
Make high sec safer? Care bears happy, gankers unhappy.
Make high sec more dangerous? Gankers happy, carebears unhappy.
EVE is interdependent on every part of the game,pulling part of that web has a ripple effect everywhere else. Most null players grasp this, most High Sec players don't. Which is why you get high sec players (probably like you) not understanding why it appears that Null Sec keeps saying to nerf high sec. It's not because there's any overwhelming animosity, it's because certain features of high sec are having an extremely detrimental effect on null sec gameplay.
You might not care about null sec players but it's null sec players who make the headlines and helped shape EVE to be what it is, not high sec carebears. "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1259
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Posted - 2013.02.01 15:47:00 -
[29] - Quote
[quote=Baron Dmitri Harkonnen It seems you are one of these people, while I have you here please let me know what goes through your mind as you get these emotional feelings?? I am deeply curious! Maybe I could enjoy the game more if I was more like you? You said you wish you could reach through the internets and choke people like us? [/quote]]
You should read what I wrote (which you did not).
The "people i'd like to choke through the internets" are the people who somehow believe people like me are lying when we tell them why we have a certain belief. Here, that usually means someone will say something stupid like "you just don't like my playstyle".
So yes, Baron, if we have a discussion about something and I TELL you why I think a certain way, and you say" nah, you just don't like my playstyle" (basically calling me a liar) , do expect the hand of righteous indignation to come through your screen.
Quote: What illicit's such emotion? I can honestly say that no one on the internet has made me want to do that! LOL!
That only means you are A. new to the internet of B. a liar.
Quote: Maybe it's just the way I was brought up but I was taught not to judge people. You seem to judge but at the same time get a deeper...SOMETHING that may make this game a better experience?
I await your response.
Anyone who says they don't judge is equally lying. People make judgement calls about people everyday, or do you pull over and let every homeless looking person with their thumb out ride in your car and sleep in your house while you are away?
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1259
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Posted - 2013.02.01 15:51:00 -
[30] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:It's easier to think the other guy is bad/stupid/evil or has an agenda than it is to actually try to understand where they are coming from. It's very irritating, especially when you explain to these nimrods exactly what the motivation for an idea is, only to be met with "nah, i just think you don't like my playstyle". I swear i wanna reach through the internets and choke a fool when they say that Motivation for the rule change. To make EVE a colder and harsher place for all. Ummm... Why do you want all the carebears to quit playing? Why can there not be a game that has different areas of space, with different rules, that accommodate different play styles? If you want to PVP, there are places for that. If you want a high probability you won't be messed with too much, there is an area for that. What is wrong with that?
Part of your problem (and you probably have many) is an extremist personality. You tend to think in extreme cases which is why you are constantly wrong.
How many times do i have to tell you I'm not much of a pvp player and don't care how or where other people play. I care about the game I play, and like it for what it is, and resist changes that would dilute its exclusivity and greatness.
Buit you never HEAR anything I or anyone else says, you just plant your preconceived notions over everything we say, then pretend WE are the problem.
What you believe is simply wrong Tarawa, and I'm sorry you can't see that. But you and your type are the problem, the reason why there is an "us vs them".
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