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Sphit Ker
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
148
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Posted - 2013.02.03 17:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
They require the best scan res of their class. They can adjust for ranges in a pinch, they should also be able to lock on and re-lock targets quickly, too. This follows the instant swap of crystals principle. I believe this is the coolest perk these can get. Saves messing around with hit points and slot layout too much.
Also enough fitting to stop forcing people downgrading to meta 4 for a fit that ought to be a completely standard, everyday, normal, straightforward fit. |
Novah Soul
SASN Mining Corp. Grand Stellar Alliance
3
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Posted - 2013.02.03 17:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sphit Ker wrote:They require the best scan res of their class. They can adjust for ranges in a pinch, they should also be able to lock on and re-lock targets quickly, too. This follows the instant swap of crystals principle. I believe this is the coolest perk these can get. Saves messing around with hit points and slot layout too much.
Also enough fitting to stop forcing people downgrading to meta 4 for a fit that ought to be a completely standard, everyday, normal, straightforward fit.
I definitely agree on your second point. I find Amarr hulls in general, and the BS hulls in particular, to be the most difficult to fit of all four races. I love my lasers, and it's quite disappointing to have to go to another ship simply b/c I can get a better fitting in a hull of the same class/tier in another race. |
stoicfaux
2284
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Posted - 2013.02.03 18:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sphit Ker wrote:They require the best scan res of their class. They can adjust for ranges in a pinch, they should also be able to lock on and re-lock targets quickly, too. This follows the instant swap of crystals principle. I believe this is the coolest perk these can get. Saves messing around with hit points and slot layout too much. Yes, but improving the ability to see and perceive the universe is anathema to most religions. Thus I disagree from an RP point of view.
Quote:Also enough fitting to stop forcing people downgrading to meta 4 for a fit that ought to be a completely standard, everyday, normal, straightforward fit. Tentative +1.
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Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
84
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Posted - 2013.02.03 18:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
+1
I want a full rack of MPL II's on my N.Geddon Oderint Dum Metuant |
Storm Novah
SASN Mining Corp.
1
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Posted - 2013.02.03 18:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sphit Ker wrote:They require the best scan res of their class. They can adjust for ranges in a pinch, they should also be able to lock on and re-lock targets quickly, too. This follows the instant swap of crystals principle. I believe this is the coolest perk these can get. Saves messing around with hit points and slot layout too much.
Also enough fitting to stop forcing people downgrading to meta 4 for a fit that ought to be a completely standard, everyday, normal, straightforward fit.
I think that the Amarr would gain too much of an unfair advantage because of a scan res buff... besides there are much more prevalent problems with their hulls already and those need to be addressed first. Over all most of the Amarr T1 line are very, very difficult to fit for. The bigger the hull the worse it gets.
The tier 1 BS lineup is absolutely horrible for fitting. They have tier 2 beam lasers that cant even be fit unless you don't want to be able to fit anything else and that doesn't even take into consideration the Tech2 variant.
As for the downgrade to meta 4s... going with a meta 4 laser over any other t1 laser doesn't change their powergrid requirement which is where the ships lack the most imo. They need to either drop the PG req on turrets or increase the PG on the hulls and this goes for any of the Amarr ships.
I also think they should get a small buff to their cap recharge rate. I have max capacitor skills and implants that give me decent bonuses to my capacitor recharge and capacity and my turret cap use and I STILL can't fit a stable Amarr BS. That alone says something needs to be fixed somewhere. |
Novah Soul
SASN Mining Corp. Grand Stellar Alliance
3
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Posted - 2013.02.03 18:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Storm Novah wrote:Sphit Ker wrote:They require the best scan res of their class. They can adjust for ranges in a pinch, they should also be able to lock on and re-lock targets quickly, too. This follows the instant swap of crystals principle. I believe this is the coolest perk these can get. Saves messing around with hit points and slot layout too much.
Also enough fitting to stop forcing people downgrading to meta 4 for a fit that ought to be a completely standard, everyday, normal, straightforward fit. I think that the Amarr would gain too much of an unfair advantage because of a scan res buff... besides there are much more prevalent problems with their hulls already and those need to be addressed first. Over all most of the Amarr T1 line are very, very difficult to fit for. The bigger the hull the worse it gets. The tier 1 BS lineup is absolutely horrible for fitting. They have tier 2 beam lasers that cant even be fit unless you don't want to be able to fit anything else and that doesn't even take into consideration the Tech2 variant. As for the downgrade to meta 4s... going with a meta 4 laser over any other t1 laser doesn't change their powergrid requirement which is where the ships lack the most imo. They need to either drop the PG req on turrets or increase the PG on the hulls and this goes for any of the Amarr ships. I also think they should get a small buff to their cap recharge rate. I have max capacitor skills and implants that give me decent bonuses to my capacitor recharge and capacity and my turret cap use and I STILL can't fit a stable Amarr BS. That alone says something needs to be fixed somewhere.
I knew you couldn't resist posting in this thread once you saw it, lol. +1 tho |
Sphit Ker
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
148
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Posted - 2013.02.03 20:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Storm Novah wrote: I think that the Amarr would gain too much of an unfair advantage because of a scan res buff...
I expected exactly this reply
There's nothing unfair about that.
Beams don't have the best alpha. Pulse don't have the best DPS neither tracking. Amarr BS hulls are generally slow and clumsy. They are not going anywhere fast enough. What they have, usually, is a bit of an edge from Scorch's optimal range. They require a nice fat scan res to capitalize on this otherwise most targets can and do move in and out of said range with impunity. There's no falloff to speak of. Only Tachyons have a properly usable falloff. Once close enough, lasers often can't track ****. When a speedy thing is spotted approaching, they need to act and react real quick. When trying to snipe with beams, the low-ish alpha means they have to start shooting fast, in order to land more than a lucky shot, before the target gets to build any kind of transversal or warp off entirely.
Therefore, yes, Amarr BS hulls requires an excellent scan res to "work". That's it or mess around aimlessly with all kinds of attributes.
I affirm this is the simplest boost-to-effectiveness ratio they can get without changing _everything_. |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
515
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Posted - 2013.02.03 22:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
You'll get the second-worst scan res. |
Novah Soul
SASN Mining Corp. Grand Stellar Alliance
4
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Posted - 2013.02.03 22:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sphit Ker wrote:Storm Novah wrote: I think that the Amarr would gain too much of an unfair advantage because of a scan res buff...
I expected exactly this reply There's nothing unfair about that. Beams don't have the best alpha. Pulse don't have the best DPS neither tracking. Amarr BS hulls are generally slow and clumsy. They are not going anywhere fast enough. What they have, usually, is a bit of an edge from Scorch's optimal range. They require a nice fat scan res to capitalize on this otherwise most targets can and do move in and out of said range with impunity. There's no falloff to speak of. Only Tachyons have a properly usable falloff. Once close enough, lasers often can't track ****. When a speedy thing is spotted approaching, they need to act and react real quick. When trying to snipe with beams, the low-ish alpha means they have to start shooting fast, in order to land more than a lucky shot, before the target gets to build any kind of transversal or warp off entirely. Therefore, yes, Amarr BS hulls requires an excellent scan res to "work". That's it or mess around aimlessly with all kinds of attributes. I affirm this is the simplest boost-to-effectiveness ratio they can get without changing _everything_. I can see the logic from a PvPer's perspective on this. I don't pvp on the BS level in any serious sense, so didn't really think about it.
Doesn't loading the mids with a couple of scan res scripted Sebos help much? |
Femke Doutz
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
0
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Posted - 2013.02.04 00:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
I kinda think the lineup is nice if only you forget about beams. As far as I'm concerned beam lasers can be removed from game....for me exist only pulses and tachyons(technically beams but they're a class of their own to me)
Armageddon: close/mid range dps monster....pulse, tank not so good. Apocalypse: medium to long range, nice tank less but still nice dps.....pulse Abaddon very nice dps, great tank close to mid range......pulse.
Paladin: tachyons, pve very good dps. Nightmare: tachyons, pve though some rich bastards use it for pve, tachyons very nice dps, shieldtank.
Oracle, basicly the only boat I consider for either pulse or tachyons.......it works quite well for both. |
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Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
31
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Posted - 2013.02.04 03:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
Considering that Amarr is the only race where all 3 of its T1 battleships are widely used in pvp, I find it highly doubtfful you'll be getting a buff |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
669
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Posted - 2013.02.04 03:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Want some bread with that whine? Tachs have both far more dps and more tracking than the largest rails. The only thing holding them back is the grid. How about this, we swap dps stat of tach and rail, then give your tachs rail grid requirement. Happy?
And what's with tracking whine on pulses? How about we give pulse both the tracking and range of blasters? No? Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
2897
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Posted - 2013.02.04 03:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
I find it likely that there'll be a fittings buff for the Geddon, but unlikely that the Apoc or Abaddon will be touched in a meaningful way.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
161
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Posted - 2013.02.04 07:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:I find it likely that there'll be a fittings buff for the Geddon, but unlikely that the Apoc or Abaddon will be touched in a meaningful way.
-Liang
Tbh, I half expect Geddon to turn into a drone boat. It's already kinda one :) |
Darvanile
The Flying Dead
0
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Posted - 2013.02.04 15:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
Honestly, I think the Amarr BS need something other than a laser platform. Id like to see a Khanid battleship. Looking at all of the other racial T1 Battleship lines, each of them have a ship that specializes in something the other does not.
Caldari- ewar/missiles/blasters Gallente-drones/blasters Minmatar-missiles/artillery Amarr-fast firing lasers/tanky lasers/long range lasers
We really get the short end of the stick when it comes to t1 BS in my opinion. Not to mention the huge hole in the variety of Khanid ships. Sacriledge 2.0 anyone?
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Novah Soul
SASN Mining Corp. Grand Stellar Alliance
4
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Posted - 2013.02.04 15:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
Darvanile wrote:Honestly, I think the Amarr BS need something other than a laser platform. Id like to see a Khanid battleship. Looking at all of the other racial T1 Battleship lines, each of them have a ship that specializes in something the other does not.
Caldari- ewar/missiles/blasters Gallente-drones/blasters Minmatar-missiles/artillery Amarr-fast firing lasers/tanky lasers/long range lasers
We really get the short end of the stick when it comes to t1 BS in my opinion. Not to mention the huge hole in the variety of Khanid ships. Sacriledge 2.0 anyone?
A sleek, black and gold Khanid Missile spewer loaded with TPs in the mids = sexy |
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers R O G U E
195
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Posted - 2013.02.04 16:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
am i the only person who has never had a problem fitting a full rack of MPL 2's on my geddon???? REALLY?!?! |
Shinzhi Xadi
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
31
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Posted - 2013.02.04 19:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
I would love it if CCP gave the paladin more PG so it can actually fit a set of T2 Tachs without needed PG rigs or sacrificing low slots for PG. |
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
84
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Posted - 2013.02.05 03:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
ITTigerClawIK wrote:am i the only person who has never had a problem fitting a full rack of MPL 2's on my geddon???? REALLY?!?!
Possibly, do you have a fit that allow's a full rack of MPL II's and a decent tank with prop mod. Also making proper use of the utility high, without jamming a few fitting mods on. Oderint Dum Metuant |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
196
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Posted - 2013.02.05 05:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
Novah Soul wrote:A sleek, black and gold Khanid Missile spewer loaded with TPs in the mids = sexy
I really want a black abaddon! but maybe I'd settle for a black geddon. |
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Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
709
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Posted - 2013.02.05 06:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
I've never been a fan of the Geddon tbh, its fitting and tank are terrible and 3 midslots gets old really really fast. I've also never been a fan of the Apoc outside the obvious niche usage, if you discount its range options the dps is mediocre so to me there's only one Amarr BS, the Abaddon.
I'm not agreeing to the OP's "gief scan res", sure more would be better but balance wise his logic makes no sense and I'd rather have CCP change them in a different way because right now 2 of them kinda do the same thing (Geddon and Abaddon). Perhaps turn the geddon into a droneboat or give it a missile bonus or perhaps just simply give it a tracking bonus with a 4th midslot so it could have its own niche. Amat victoria curam. Excellence in everything.
Some guides that may be useful to you: http://www.youtube.com/user/OrdoArdish |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
725
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Posted - 2013.02.05 06:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
Aralieus wrote:ITTigerClawIK wrote:am i the only person who has never had a problem fitting a full rack of MPL 2's on my geddon???? REALLY?!?! Possibly, do you have a fit that allow's a full rack of MPL II's and a decent tank with prop mod. Also making proper use of the utility high, without jamming a few fitting mods on. yeah, but you usually fit something on the utility highs as an afterthought.
the geddon fits nicely with a passive omni-tank + gank fit. it does struggle if you try to cram a LAR II in it tho.
also to the OP: want to give them best lock speed? give them worst locking range. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
culo duro
Federal Enslavement
5
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Posted - 2013.02.05 09:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
to me the amarr BS seem like some of the worst of their class. |
ijustTOOKyourMONEY
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.02.05 17:18:00 -
[24] - Quote
You guys don't get it the DEVS hate amarr ad biased towards any amarr ships in pvp. Even their recent designed destroyer The Dragoon is THE LEAST used destroyer by a wide margin. Who would've guessed! lol |
Sjugar
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
57
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Posted - 2013.02.05 22:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
Looking at larger scale fleets I see:
Amarr: Apoc fleets, Abaddon fleets and Armageddon fleets.
Caldari: Scorpions an Rokhs
Galente: Well I did see some domi fleets lately but never fleets of megathrons or Hyperions
Minmatar Tempest for killing caps, typhoons only as heavy tackle or firewall but less and less Maelstroms because everyone is switching to Rokhs.
It's the only race where all three battleships are actually flown in larger scale pvp fleets. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
669
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Posted - 2013.02.06 00:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
Sjugar wrote:Looking at larger scale fleets I see:
Amarr: Apoc fleets, Abaddon fleets and Armageddon fleets.
Caldari: Scorpions an Rokhs
Galente: Well I did see some domi fleets lately but never fleets of megathrons or Hyperions
Minmatar Tempest for killing caps, typhoons only as heavy tackle or firewall but less and less Maelstroms because everyone is switching to Rokhs.
It's the only race where all three battleships are actually flown in larger scale pvp fleets.
It used to be be all Amar all the time for everything BS and up for blobs. Even today it's still mostly Amar blobs. There are actually a few megas thrown into the amar blob once in a while though. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
2923
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Posted - 2013.02.06 00:32:00 -
[27] - Quote
The Mega used to be really popular in RR fleets.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Hakaimono
Stillwater Corporation
44
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Posted - 2013.02.06 01:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
This is why I'm saving Amarr BS for last in my cross train.
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Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2176
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Posted - 2013.02.06 11:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
Hakaimono wrote:This is why I'm saving Amarr BS for last in my cross train.
Me too. Hopefully they sort them out by then. |
Maeltstome
Mentally Assured Destruction
328
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Posted - 2013.02.06 15:30:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jake Warbird wrote:Hakaimono wrote:This is why I'm saving Amarr BS for last in my cross train.
Me too. Hopefully they sort them out by then.
Then you're both missing out. Thermal is an amazing damage type and EM is the LEAST tanked resist on almost every PVP ship (that's why smartbombers use EM bombs).
Amarr ships dont have lots of slots for tackle, but when your shortest range ammo hits to 14km and the scorch range is 45km you don't need much tackle, or TE's.
Amarr have consistent damage to long ranges by default, this is an advantage that people seem to overlook. Here's a basic geddon fit:
Quote:[Armageddon, Deeps]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Damage Control II
Large Micro Jump Drive J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L 500W Infectious Power System Malfunction
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Ogre II x5
Ok, now show me a Dominix or typhoon that can fit that well. Full rack of guns (admittedly smaller ones), neut, cap injected with a get out (jump drive) and that kind of EHP and DPS out to 45KM.
You can't
People who hate on amarr BS as hard as they do don't understand them. i personally don't like the Apoc since it's more of a fleet boat, and i love my maelstrom in fleets too much to swap to an apoc. And the Abbadon? That ship is sick. |
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