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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1310
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Posted - 2013.02.07 19:02:00 -
[91] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:
So, the question is: would Rage make more money if it were a widely available casual game? Should Rage radically modify the game to improve conversion and retention amongst The Almighty Casual user? All evidence points to a resounding no. Doing this would destroy the game that they've built. We've seen that kind of move executed time and again throughout the gaming industry and I'm not aware of any time that the gambit has been successful.
So why is Rage successful then? Well, because they have a specific type of player that they cater to and thoroughly own a corner of the market that they serve better than anyone else. People who want to participate in a competitive game like Rage ultimately end up playing Rage instead of one of the countless clones.
-Liang
Oh please Liang, there you go against talking about stuff with actual observable facts and verifiable knowledge again. Where do you get off introducing such things to these forums?
Don't you know that EVE would get so many more subs if.........
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Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
88
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Posted - 2013.02.07 19:09:00 -
[92] - Quote
Changes are going to happen in Eve, they happen all the time, they are happening right now. Many changes are advocated here in these forums, most of them are solidly from side of the population or the other. With a lot of angst over who is gets what. The resulting noise and the changes that come about because of it may or may not be best for the game.
Eve started out as a sandbox, where people competed freely and equally. Over time the equality part of that equation has been eroded as players leverage their in game success.
CCP has done a great job at keeping all levels of player involved in the game and important to the fight. But the fact remains that Eve used to be dangerous, you never knew, and that challenge is what drew players.
In this new Eve players have the potential to be in a fight where the outcome is very certain. That environment draws a different kind of player. I'm not saying that is right or wrong or there is room in the box or not. Only that Eve has changed over the years, and not because of CCP trying to lure in more people, just internal development has led us to a very different sandbox then we were in 6 and 10 years ago.
Its gone from being a place of struggle and conflict to a place of domination and performance battles. I agree with you that Eve is best as a nitch game, but this isnGÇÖt the same nitch that it was in the beginning.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
2934
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Posted - 2013.02.07 19:13:00 -
[93] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:I agree with you that Eve is best as a nitch game, but this isnGÇÖt the same nitch that it was in the beginning.
I'm not sure that I'd call Eve a niche game anymore. It's got more subs than popular than many "mainstream" MMOs, but seems to have the longevity to make it work. I also was not intending to say that Eve shouldn't change or that the areas that Eve dominates cannot evolve over time. Just that they should not forsake the roots of the game to chase massive new player subs that may or may not stick around.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
1915
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Posted - 2013.02.07 19:16:00 -
[94] - Quote
Its my understanding that 100% of current players used to be New Players. I will go and recheck my math/statistics. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
2934
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Posted - 2013.02.07 19:16:00 -
[95] - Quote
Can you briefly summarize what you think does or does not need to change Corey? You seem to say a lot of words in an effort to elicit a response but I just can't tell what you're driving at. Out with it, I say.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
88
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Posted - 2013.02.07 19:39:00 -
[96] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Can you briefly summarize what you think does or does not need to change Corey? You seem to say a lot of words in an effort to elicit a response but I just can't tell what you're driving at. Out with it, I say.
-Liang That's the best chuckle I've had in a while. Thank you for that Liang.
Many people who used to be in Eve are no longer here. New players come and go. Eve has changed.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
2934
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Posted - 2013.02.07 19:42:00 -
[97] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Can you briefly summarize what you think does or does not need to change Corey? You seem to say a lot of words in an effort to elicit a response but I just can't tell what you're driving at. Out with it, I say.
-Liang That's the best chuckle I've had in a while. Thank you for that Liang. Many people who used to be in Eve are no longer here. New players come and go. Eve has changed.
Such is the nature of any sustained game. In a very real sense, Eve is a service that must change over time to provide new value and continue to incentivize people to pay. There is nothing wrong or unexpected here and there's noticeable and substantial sustained growth.
/shrug
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
88
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Posted - 2013.02.07 23:10:00 -
[98] - Quote
Had to go out on a work call. To not answer your question more thoroughly I didnGÇÖt start this thread to make a point or to say anything, it was a just a way to gather some data. You decided that I was secretly trying to decry the state of player retention
I have a problem with PLEX and new players; EveGÇÖs exchange system is built with room for cons to exist, forcing new players to use this system to redeem ISK for cash is more trouble than its worth. That was discussed on another thread, and is the only argument I made related to new player retention.
My other threads of note are:
FiS is good enough, lets see some different options for interaction. I.e. industrial warfare and hacking.
Industrial slots would be more interesting if they were incorporated into PI. This would help to address the high/null indy disparity and would create more options for interaction as industrialists have to leave the station a bit more to move things around.
I would like to see options outside of corporations but more concrete than chat channels for player groups. Long term contracts and transparent auditing that allow for fair division of loot during joint exercises.
You can agree or disagree but aside from PLEX and new players none of that is about new player retention or fear of Eve dying. Just points that I feel would make Eve more sandboxy.
If I could make a change to Eve consequences be damned? Idk, maybe reset the server, and move the timeline back to before the Yoiul conference, do away with CONCORD and replace it with faction navies which each have different policies regarding enforcement.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Nyla Skin
Maximum fun chamber
220
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Posted - 2013.02.08 09:18:00 -
[99] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: I'm not sure that I'd call Eve a niche game anymore. It's got more subs than popular than many "mainstream" MMOs, but seems to have the longevity to make it work.
In my opinion the longevity comes from the fact that it is a sandbox concentrating on player interaction. This means that even if most of my days ingame are boring and just flying spaceships this way and that, there is always a chance of something surprising and interesting happening. You never know with people. It is the reason why in the end I always end up more or less back here after I went to try one themepark MMO or another. It is also the reason why I am looking for WoD as the 'mmo to end all mmos' for me.
There always needs to be some change, lest we get bored. I am bored with Eve. That is a fact. Yet I am still here because with all other things being equal, sandbox > themepark. Always. |
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1086
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Posted - 2013.02.08 11:29:00 -
[100] - Quote
Damn essay style responses. |
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Aineko Macx
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
246
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Posted - 2013.02.08 12:42:00 -
[101] - Quote
An approach to guesstimate a related question:
From Diagoras twitters we know about 8.2 million characters existed in the beginning of 2012. From past QENs we know that the average number of characters per account is 2.1, meaning that about 3.9 million accounts were ever created. Putting that into perspective with the touted 450k active subscriptions means that about 11.5% of all accounts ever created are active.
PS.: The sequential character ID suggests that about 93 million characters were created, but this is obviously off for some reason. Probably the ID is incremented every time someone enters the character creator, regardless if he finishes the process or not. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
2938
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Posted - 2013.02.08 18:49:00 -
[102] - Quote
Aineko Macx wrote:An approach to guesstimate a related question:
From Diagoras twitters we know about 8.2 million characters existed in the beginning of 2012. From past QENs we know that the average number of characters per account is 2.1, meaning that about 3.9 million accounts were ever created. Putting that into perspective with the touted 450k active subscriptions means that about 11.5% of all accounts ever created are active.
PS.: The sequential character ID suggests that about 93 million characters were created, but this is obviously off for some reason. Probably the ID is incremented every time someone enters the character creator, regardless if he finishes the process or not.
That's an absolutely staggeringly high retention rate if it's even remotely true.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Caldari Citizen 20120308
State War Academy Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2013.02.08 18:51:00 -
[103] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote:What % of new players stick with the game? Of the people who started within the past 2 or 3 years what % do you think stayed with the game?
Then think back 7 or 8 years. What % of the new players back then stuck with the game?
And not retread players who have been in and out of the game for a long time, rather brand new blood. Honestly, I doubt CCP knows. They may track the % of accounts that stick around, but I can start a new account for 51 days for free. I use my open buddy invite. Activate that new account with a PLEX provided to the new toon by my main, and then my main gets the month and the alt gets 51 days paid subscription. Within a day and a half, that new account can be flying a big industrial, hauling more ore to station than 2 hulks can mine. Within a couple weeks, that free account can be flying a mining barge. By that time, I can start yet another new free account using a PLEX for another of my main accounts... again, another 51 free days. CCP has a hard time getting accounts to renew more than just that first month. DUH, I'd guess a very large % of the new accounts are just older players taking advantage of the 51 free days.
Cool you just undocked a ship you watied a month for.... now time to add modules which will take another month.
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Brynhilda
Tri-gun C0NVICTED
92
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Posted - 2013.02.08 19:25:00 -
[104] - Quote
Is it just me or does anyone find funnythat the guy with the highest SP in game does not have T2 Sentries? How may I drug you with drugs? |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
139
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:21:00 -
[105] - Quote
CCP may know, but I'm not sure about that. Of the trial accounts I have had in my corp, about 80% don't stay in the game. |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
139
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:22:00 -
[106] - Quote
Brynhilda wrote:Is it just me or does anyone find funnythat the guy with the highest SP in game does not have T2 Sentries?
It's just you. Very few people need T2 Sentry Drones.
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Arcelian
House of Praetor R O G U E
1
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Posted - 2013.02.09 00:19:00 -
[107] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:Who would chose option 2? I've always chosen option 3: doing industry in a non-stupid way. Honestly I can't imagine how someone can sign up for a pure PVP game and not expect to have to defend their industry assets from PVP people? When I first signed up for Eve I wanted to be "the brains behind the brawn" - but at no point did I want to be a wimp ass carebear hiding from PVP all the time. Man up and use your brain a bit. -Liang Ed: And before you go "LOL LOW SUCK PIRATE HATES ALL INDUSTRY" on me, please bear in mind that I ran a WH corp for a long time. I've also done missions and done industry all the way from basic T1 mods to capital, T2, and T3 production. It's a PVP game. Treat it as such.
Eve is a sci-fi business simulator, PVP is an aspect of it, but far from the entire game. It's all about the money. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
2940
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Posted - 2013.02.09 00:23:00 -
[108] - Quote
Arcelian wrote:Quote: It's a PVP game. Treat it as such. Eve is a sci-fi business simulator, PVP is an aspect of it, but far from the entire game. It's all about the money.
That's exactly why it's a PVP game.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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