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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.07.14 05:21:00 -
[1]
I should have said: why use a Cerberus when you own an Eagle?
The only good thing I can see with the Cerberus is it's ability to chose the damage type for PvP and it's high targeting range. Other than that, I'm greatly disappointed since the missile changes.
My eagle pops frigates from 1 to 100 km ten times faster than a Cerberus, and has an overall higher damage output with a much superior tanking. This is with all (yes, absolutely all) new missile skills at 3, not sure I'll even bother to train them higher since I'm no Raven pilot, I can't see them making the difference.
Well, anyways, I've always been a Moa fan and I love the Eagle, even if inferior to other races HACs, but tell me something about the Cerberus that prevents me from selling it back.
Please
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Morikai Acler
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Posted - 2005.07.14 05:26:00 -
[2]
I haven't got a cerberus yet, but I'm thinking about fitting it with a full load of assault launchers. And then tech 2 assault launchers when I get the skill for it. Figure you can use them as heavy anti frigate ships, spamming the hell out of them with light missiles and possibly defenders.
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W0lverine
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Posted - 2005.07.14 05:28:00 -
[3]
EW 4tw+gl hitting frigs with eagle ones they get close
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Haros
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Posted - 2005.07.14 05:45:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Haros on 14/07/2005 05:49:58 Cerberus sucks, if u want to take out frigs fit a caracal with assault launchers. Im not gonna be using a 60+ mil ship just to be able to take out frigs. The problem is that missiles seem to have an "if requirement is met hit for full dmg, if not hit for min" logic there is no dmg in between. I was hittting npc ceptors for 30 dmg and cruisers for 110. Note that i was using 1 TP n 1 BCU n i have heavies on 5 with some of the new skills trained to 3 and I was using the widowmakers since i was shooting at sansha rats. The thing is that i tried Torps n the hit for 28dmg. I even tried fitting 2 125mm rails to check their effectiveness n guess what? I hit a Target Painted ceptor 1-2 shots in 10 for 11-15 dmg (while it was orbiting me). Bottomline if u want to pvp get some assault frigs or ceptors, if u wanna npc get a non caldari BS unless u want to spend a fortune on killing npc support ships. |
Rasitiln
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Posted - 2005.07.14 05:51:00 -
[5]
I compleatly disagree a the cerberus is better then ever now and has more potential then ever ive seen a cerberus tank 4 battleships and not bat a eye, dont under estimate one in the hands of a competent pilot it owns everything on the block.
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.07.14 05:57:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Rasitiln I compleatly disagree a the cerberus is better then ever now and has more potential then ever ive seen a cerberus tank 4 battleships and not bat a eye, dont under estimate one in the hands of a competent pilot it owns everything on the block.
Since you wardec'd us please deliver said cerberus pilot to our HQ and I will provide a battleship and 3 corpmates.
If he survives more than 15 seconds after the first shot is fired I will give you 100 mill ISK
Thank you
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ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2005.07.14 06:28:00 -
[7]
The answer is here
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KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2005.07.14 09:09:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Rasitiln I compleatly disagree a the cerberus is better then ever now and has more potential then ever ive seen a cerberus tank 4 battleships and not bat a eye, dont under estimate one in the hands of a competent pilot it owns everything on the block.
I am afraid, that what you have just said is total and utter bull****.
You have obviously been playing a very different game than the one we have, probably it would seem, whilst you were asleep. Get a clue.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
Pagefault
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Posted - 2005.07.14 10:26:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Rasitiln I compleatly disagree a the cerberus is better then ever now and has more potential then ever ive seen a cerberus tank 4 battleships and not bat a eye, dont under estimate one in the hands of a competent pilot it owns everything on the block.
Did u ever fly one????
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MadGaz
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Posted - 2005.07.14 10:32:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Rasitiln I compleatly disagree a the cerberus is better then ever now and has more potential then ever ive seen a cerberus tank 4 battleships and not bat a eye, dont under estimate one in the hands of a competent pilot it owns everything on the block.
He means tank 4 unfitted battleships. ------------------------------------------
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Elfaen Ethenwe
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Posted - 2005.07.14 10:34:00 -
[11]
cerbs are good for pve against large ships only
and deja is right.
come out from where you are hiding and bring your cerbs, w will test them to destruction for you.
And I will give you 100 mil if your cerb survives 15 seconds against 4 BS's
<->-<->-<->-<->-<->-<->-<->-<->-<->-<->-<->
Together we Gank, Divided we Pop.
<->-<->-<->-<->-<->-<->-<->-<->-<->-<->-<-> |
Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.07.14 10:35:00 -
[12]
Originally by: MadGaz
Originally by: Rasitiln I compleatly disagree a the cerberus is better then ever now and has more potential then ever ive seen a cerberus tank 4 battleships and not bat a eye, dont under estimate one in the hands of a competent pilot it owns everything on the block.
He means tank 4 unfitted battleships.
After the changes, I can imagine it could tank four Ravens ========================================= * I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. * ========================================= |
ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2005.07.14 11:02:00 -
[13]
There are situations in which a Cerberus, or any HAC for that matter, with an Afterburner fitted can deal with the fire of a battleship or two for a short while. I've done it myself on the test server, back when they actually had HACs on the market (grumble). If you orbit a BS at the right range and keep your tank going, you can actually survive for a short while.
But as I said, any HAC is capable of that more or less.
The PROBLEM is that if the Cerberus shoots back, the BS pilot is going to laugh himself to death unless hes fitted 100% gank.
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Vathar
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Posted - 2005.07.14 11:08:00 -
[14]
I've seen a vagabond (yeah, it's a bit faster than a cerb, I know) orbiting a Raven and being able to tank it indefinitely ... However, said Raven was highly tanked and didn't feel the need to add webbers/painters ...
This being said, A cerberus as quite a high burst damage potential using heavies and pops cruisers so fast it's not even funny...
Problem is, you don't see cruisers that often in pvp ... ____________
Space Shaman
Don't take life seriously, you'll not survive it anyway
(\_/) (O.o) (> <) yay, got my bunny too !! |
Selim
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Posted - 2005.07.14 11:11:00 -
[15]
Aww, you don't like the Caldari specialty of range instead of damage? Sucks to be you.
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.07.14 11:21:00 -
[16]
i just wonder, what range does cerberus + heavys have with skills at lvl4. (i think up to 120km at least)
Then compare it to deimos... which has optimal <2km and hits hard up to 6-7km.
Now if you cry that you do only 1/2 its dmg at 20x its range...
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Pagefault
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Posted - 2005.07.14 11:30:00 -
[17]
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK There are situations in which a Cerberus, or any HAC for that matter, with an Afterburner fitted can deal with the fire of a battleship or two for a short while. I've done it myself on the test server, back when they actually had HACs on the market (grumble). If you orbit a BS at the right range and keep your tank going, you can actually survive for a short while.
But as I said, any HAC is capable of that more or less.
The PROBLEM is that if the Cerberus shoots back, the BS pilot is going to laugh himself to death unless hes fitted 100% gank.
Mhhh, an allout-gankageddon needs to be in optimal, and i must sit still, to get my cerb's tank into trouble. Usually i would expect any HACvs.BS or HACvs.HAC to end up as a tie, as no1 is able to break the other ship's tank (1 on 1 of course).
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Pagefault
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Posted - 2005.07.14 11:31:00 -
[18]
Originally by: LUKEC i just wonder, what range does cerberus + heavys have with skills at lvl4. (i think up to 120km at least)
Some1 came up with 177km with all skills maxed.
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ErrorS
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Posted - 2005.07.14 11:33:00 -
[19]
are you all serious? I've never flown one but on paper it looks awesome.. sit back 100km+ from a gate and wtfpwn potential bad guys. ________
I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |
KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2005.07.14 11:37:00 -
[20]
Ok the Cerb is a range ship, just like the Eagle.
BUT
The damage it does is so bloody laughable at 1km and at 200km.
The guy that wrote its better now than b4 the patch, is an idiot.
People need to climb in one, and then digress their opinions on the matter.
EVERY Hac in the game could tank indefinatley the Cerbs damage, with only a mild tank. And EVERY hac in the game would slaughter a Cerb if it gets anywhere near its combat range.
ALL shipshave the ability to setup for close range and ranged combat, i could setup a diemos tomorrow with an optimal of 100km, and it would hit a damn site harder than the Cerb.
The problme lies herein, missiles for Cruiser and Frigate combat are OVER nerfed. The damage output from a cerb on a frigate and a cruiser is so low compared to its peers, that it isnt any longer a functioning PvP ship.
PVE, its all good of course.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
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ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2005.07.14 11:52:00 -
[21]
Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 14/07/2005 11:57:18
On paper, the Cerb does look great. But, I've been flying one for a couple months now, and trust me, its weak damage output is too pathetic compared to its range.
Sure, THEORETICALLY, with missile range skills maxed, the Cerberus can hit targets out to around 175 km, but you need to fit 2 sensor boosters to achieve that lockon range, and at 8km/sec the missiles still take over 20 seconds to reach the target.
20 seconds is more than enough time for a target to for hear a lock, right click on the target, read the show info, see that it is a Cerberus, go grab a soda, and then warp out.
"Burst" damage is great, but it only works on T1 ships without huge resists. Not to mention, heavy missiles will never hit a frigate for more than 1/3 of their maximum damage unless said frigate is MWDing, in which case the missile will do weak damage because of the target velocity. Tech 1 cruisers have enough hit points to take a volley and warp out before the second hits. A battleship with any degree of tank will bust a gut laughing at the damage being done to his ship.
What it comes down to is, the only way a Cerberus is going to kill even a Tech 1 ship at range is with someone tackling. This is something that any other HAC can accomplish just as easily on its own.
Lastly, if you suggest to me that the Cerberus should be used in a close-range combat role (tackling its own targets), I'd remind you that the ship needs its mid slots for its tank (which, with that EM hole, requires 2 active hardners to achieve any kind of feasible defense). The other 3 slots end up going to the shield booster, the shield boost amp, and probably an afterburner, a painter, or a webber (the last two are more or less necessary for fighting smaller ships).
As it stands, the Cerberus is a great idea in theory, it really is. The problem is the implementation and the damage output. The Eagle suffers from these problems as well, but at least has the capability of doing instant damage on 2/3 of its weapons.
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xenorx
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Posted - 2005.07.14 13:02:00 -
[22]
The Cerb did So/So damage at best before the patch. Now it is pathetic. On paper it looks to have a lot of potential but it doesnt work out in practice. I have parked mine indefinatly in hopes that CCP wakes up in the future and wonders why no one really flys the ships anymore. Then they may fix the problems. Until then I will keep mine in the hanger with a dust cover on.
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.07.14 14:22:00 -
[23]
Originally by: KIAEddZ missiles for Cruiser and Frigate combat are OVER nerfed. The damage output from a cerb on a frigate and a cruiser is so low compared to its peers, that it isnt any longer a functioning PvP ship.
That's what I was afraid to acknowledge I had great hopes for the Cerberus after the missile ner... er... overhaul, but against any target small than a cruiser, I do less damage than a frigate indeed. Again, I only have the new skills at 3 and reading Electro's post I have little incentive to max them.
It is true that with an Eagle I have troubles killing interceptors outside of web range, but all other frigates go down fast, while I barely scratch the paintjob on any frig with a Cerb and can't kill them before they have time to move outside of scramble range in a straight line and warp away.
Solution: Give the Cerberus 6 highs (which it has), 5 launcher hardpoints (which it has) and 2 turret hardpoints (and I'd be happy). Or even better, revise the damage reduction formula, which might be good for BS but sounds out of whack for smaller ships.
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Rasitiln
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Posted - 2005.07.14 16:14:00 -
[24]
Originally by: El**** Ethenwe cerbs are good for pve against large ships only
and deja is right.
come out from where you are hiding and bring your cerbs, w will test them to destruction for you.
And I will give you 100 mil if your cerb survives 15 seconds against 4 BS's
first we are not in hiding we are where we have always been, its just your base is a bit far now since the highways where removed, and not everyone has time for a 5 hour mission opertation
and I have seen a cerb tank many battleships, but I didnt say you would not need really good equipment to do it, and no Deja not one of them was amarr, im sure sheild tanking against 4 amarrian BS would be quite a bit harder
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.07.14 18:54:00 -
[25]
Hey, I have an idea.
Give the Cerberus an extra midslot, but also one to the Vagabond.
That way they both have the same number of mids/lows as the zealot/ishtar like they should. They have more highslots but that only means its harder to fit them, since the ishtar and zealot do more damage anyway.
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Zaintiraris
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Posted - 2005.07.14 18:55:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Selim Hey, I have an idea.
Give the Cerberus an extra midslot, but also one to the Vagabond.
That way they both have the same number of mids/lows as the zealot/ishtar like they should. They have more highslots but that only means its harder to fit them, since the ishtar and zealot do more damage anyway.
I like the cut of your jib ---
Originally by: CCP Hammer This game was so much better back before people knew math.
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Crellion
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Posted - 2005.07.14 19:11:00 -
[27]
Originally by: KIAEddZ Ok the Cerb is a range ship, just like the Eagle.
BUT
The damage it does is so bloody laughable at 1km and at 200km.
The guy that wrote its better now than b4 the patch, is an idiot.
People need to climb in one, and then digress their opinions on the matter.
EVERY Hac in the game could tank indefinatley the Cerbs damage, with only a mild tank. And EVERY hac in the game would slaughter a Cerb if it gets anywhere near its combat range.
ALL shipshave the ability to setup for close range and ranged combat, i could setup a diemos tomorrow with an optimal of 100km, and it would hit a damn site harder than the Cerb.
The problme lies herein, missiles for Cruiser and Frigate combat are OVER nerfed. The damage output from a cerb on a frigate and a cruiser is so low compared to its peers, that it isnt any longer a functioning PvP ship.
PVE, its all good of course.
Ditto and same goes for most Caldari missle ships atm except perhaps the Raven in certain situations. However even that is nerfed heavily. The other day we set 2 groups (1turret BS and other stuff in each group) at 100 km from each other. Guess what? Ares inty warps in at 45km (max) from apoc and gets instablown ( a few 100 hits and a 699 not even all turrets had time to hit :O - beams not pulses and no tracking comps). Compare that with the "Boo no ship is supposed to use Heavy weapons to hit a frig, if you tryit you are stupid, die..." etc attitude of some Einsteins posting in these forums and you get the picture. Tbh guys just lay of the missle boats for a year or so. Then they ll gradually disappear from the game and then CCP will un-nerf them again (or nerf everything else). See it as a glorious opportunity to train up your turret skills. Team up. (Ex. Eagle v Deimos 1v1 starting long range Deimos might still tank approach and pown. But 3 Eagles v 3 Deimos, b4 range is covered will be 3 Eagle v 1 Deimos. Dont flame this is just a descriptive example I am not actually suggesting that 3HAC v 3HAC same types is an everyday spectacle) Then when CCP one morning decides that laser dmg is absorbed by ships gradually (taking a second or to) so that if a ship goes fast only a percentage is actually absorbed you it will be your turn to be p****s and laugh at people's justified concerns.
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.07.14 19:17:00 -
[28]
Edited by: DrunkenOne on 14/07/2005 19:17:35
Originally by: Selim Hey, I have an idea.
Give the Cerberus an extra midslot, but also one to the Vagabond.
That way they both have the same number of mids/lows as the zealot/ishtar like they should. They have more highslots but that only means its harder to fit them, since the ishtar and zealot do more damage anyway.
Brilliant. Of course then there would never ever be any reason to use a muninn. But thats mainly because the muninn sucks and gets ZERO (0) extra mids or lows over a rupture.
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.07.14 19:21:00 -
[29]
I didn't realize there was a reason to use a Muninn anyway.
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Seth Killbain
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Posted - 2005.07.14 20:02:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Seth Killbain on 14/07/2005 20:03:09 Wrong thread.
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