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ijustTOOKyourMONEY
Athra Imperial Academy
6
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Posted - 2013.02.13 19:57:00 -
[31] - Quote
Merdaneth wrote:Zarnak has the right idea here. However, I still think the Dragoon is subpar considering the opponents it usually faces. It is good against brawling frigs, but then again, so are most destroyers.
Can it beat its own class at their game (assuming opponents of equal skill)? Thrasher, Corax, Talwar, Coercer, Algos?
Its lack of mobility and poor range make it a bad fleet ship. Incidentally, Zarnak, normally I would suggest to replace the AB with a webifier, the poor speed/mass of the Dragoon makes the webifier more effective.
I do exactly the reverse of what Zarnak does, I go all-out gank with it. No neuts at all. Close to 400dps with about 10k EHP outganks/tanks other destroyers.
So you have a fit you can share for that gank fit? and how does it fare? |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1151
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 00:20:00 -
[32] - Quote
Kasutra wrote:Hypothesis: Players who like flying drone boats are predominantly Gallente-skilled and their first inclination is to look for ships of that race.
Your hypothesis is flawed. Most of my alts are T2 drone skilled (several T2 sentry) and i RARELY fly Gallente. The Gallente I do fly (like Vigilant) rely on guns, not drones. Drones in that boat are an after-thought. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." -á --- Sorlac |
Illia Vuilleurmier
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
10
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Posted - 2013.02.17 00:05:00 -
[33] - Quote
The only thing i don't understand with the dragoon is its role bonus.
I don't see the point of having a 25% drone mwd speed bonus on a ship that's supposed to get his targets at close range, neuted and probably scrambled as well.
Either you control the engagement at close range and pretty much waste it (what's the point of that speed bonus on target as less than 10km?), either you don't control the range of engagement against a faster, kitting opponent, and then, while it might be of some use, it pretty much contradicts the fact that it is a role bonus, which should strengthen the strong point of the ship (short range drone + neut) rather than mildly mitigate one of its weaknesses.
To my opinion it should have a bonus that reinforces its role as a short range fighter. |
Valleria Darkmoon
Heretic Army Atrocitas
110
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Posted - 2013.02.17 05:55:00 -
[34] - Quote
I have nearly all 5s for the Dragoon and it's fantastic (yes I fly destroyers and T1 frigates with my 65 million SP), far more so against cap dependent frigs but decent against any of them.
As with most fits designed to fight against greater numbers it tries to hold range early, which is where the MWD speed comes into play as the initial skirmish I often have nothing pointed and am not in neuting range yet. I'll go for a group of 3 and once I force one off I can commit to the other two. Remember also that the Dragoon used to have a 25% capacitor recharge role bonus which was removed and incorporated directly into the hull so the MWD speed is just gravy.
As for the fit itself, my secrets are my own until someone kills it, then it's up to them if they want to share it with you. |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
244
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Posted - 2013.02.17 08:57:00 -
[35] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Kahega Amielden wrote:Quote:dude, you're better than this.
I am not defending the dragoon (I don't have an opinion as I haven't really messed with it much). I am saying that usage statistics does not tell you anything about a ship's effectiveness. It does.
He's overstating his case by saying it says nothing, but quite a lot of ships/fits are popular because they don't require much skill to use decently rather than because they're the best choice, and there are a fair few ships/fit that are unpopular because they are hard to fly, require outside-the-box fitting, unorthodox tactics, or just because "everyone knows they suck".
The Dragoon is an unorthodox destroyer, so people tend to reject it out of hand or try to make it into an ersatz-Algos. That doesn't make it bad. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
1960
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Posted - 2013.02.17 09:29:00 -
[36] - Quote
The Dragoon isn't sub-par by any means... it just isn't very good for skirmishy stuff that people are used to at the frigate-destroyer level. It's a brawler ship that is designed to remove the ability for certain ships to fight back (blaster and laser ships) and deal continuous damage.
highs: 2x Meta 4 neuts 1x Meta 4 nos 3x Rocket launchers
mids: MWD Scram
Lows: Damage Control 2x Adaptive Plates Meta 4 400mm plate
Drones: 5x Hobgoblins 5x webber drones
Notes: - 10k ehp - about 200 DPS - flies at about 1000 m/sec - use the web drones to slow down fast stuff enough to apply a scram and neuts, then deploy damage drones and overload the rockets. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
808
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 09:32:00 -
[37] - Quote
honestly, stat-wise the dragoon is good.
the reason why it isn't used tho, it's because it looks like a fat, pregnant coecer, and the algos is much better looking.
so yes, it seems that the dragoon problems are pretty much visual. hell even the talwar is sorta better looking. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Illia Vuilleurmier
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
10
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Posted - 2013.02.17 16:07:00 -
[38] - Quote
I LOVE the look of the Dragoon. It was said however in the last CSM minutes that both the CSM and devs were aware of its close resemblance to the coercer and may alter the look oh the later. |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
808
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 16:52:00 -
[39] - Quote
Illia Vuilleurmier wrote:I LOVE the look of the Dragoon. It was said however in the last CSM minutes that both the CSM and devs were aware of its close resemblance to the coercer and may alter the look of one of them. it being a vampire drone ship, it should've had a more .... "devilish" look. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile.
1039
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Posted - 2013.02.17 17:53:00 -
[40] - Quote
I fought a few more battles wih the fit I posted above. (All neuts). I love the concept but am considering a few tweaks. The Disruptor isn't doing anything for me. Kitey frigates will zoom away at their leisure and stuff that needs their MWD shut off NOW I'm forced to wait for the neuts to kill instead. With three trimarks the Dragoon spends just a little too much time in a thrasher's death blossom range.
Managing the Dragoon's cap is also like juggling chainsaws. When you pull it off it is impressive. Multiple targets make life hell though. Ideally you kill the cap of a target and then go to one neut. With everything running the capacitor only has 24 seconds of life. I recently killed a AC Thrasher but lost to his tormentor buddy when I didn't have enough cap to shut off his point (was in structure from thrasher when tormentor entered plex)
I was thinking of the following changes:
Change Disruptor to scrambler. Change out the three trimarks to two port egress maximizer rigs and a semiconductor memory cell rig.
This will make the ship slightly faster and more agile. It will pull range on projectile brawlers a bit faster. It will also double the cap life from 24 to 48 seconds. The bad news is you lose 2k EHP to end around 8k. |
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