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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
370
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Posted - 2011.10.11 12:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
The summer 2011 GÇ£expansionGÇ¥ for Eve Online named GÇ£IncarnaGÇ¥ will likely go down in history as the gameGÇÖs least successful, most unpopular and generally disliked addition since the game went live in 2003. The reasons for this are now generally known: confused development goals, lack of actual gameplay via walking in stations, single CaptainGÇÖs Quarter, poor technology optimisation and the removal of existing functionality unwisely intended to push the Incarna hanger style to the foreground. This content-barren joke of an expansion after 18 months of drought in core game development, content iteration, or shiny things for us to do led to the perfect storm of protest and dropping subscriptions crisis that led us to where we are now.
We know all this, CCP know all this, and now weGÇÖve hopefully begun to move past it to a brighter tomorrow of eve-focused development and renewal of proper expansion development in the future. More Apocrypha and Exodus scale expansions GÇô less Tyranis and Incursion thrift store offerings.
But I want to make a serious pitch now for why CCP should take an additional step and significantly redesign/ditch the NeX store to completely avoid in-game items and focus it instead on out of game fan-friendly stuff.
From the outset this summer NeX was a disaster for CCP and Eve Online. It launched with a weak selection of overpriced and poorly-designed drab unimaginative clothing with a monocle that made Eve Online the proud recipients of this seasonGÇÖs horse armour award for gaming industry ridicule. GÇ£What? You play the game where they charge you 72 dollars for a virtual monocle ... lol!GÇ¥ The stuff was too expensive, it wasnGÇÖt very exciting, it looked (to be honest) just like the terrible Minmatar CaptainGÇÖs quarter GÇô grey, olive, brown, depressing and completely lacking in the verve and creativity of the original character generator costumes which owed more the Fifth Element than todayGÇÖs army and navy seconds warehouse stuff.
But the disaster goes deeper. The argument about whether CCP would go further than vanity-only Microtransactions let them know that the player-base would not stand for overt pay-to-win in Eve (and that PLEX was just far enough on that score). That meant the perception we were somehow happy with GÇ£vanityGÇ¥ stuff being fodder for the NeX store going forwards and opened the can of worms for all future bits and pieces: corp logos on ships? (vanity!) paintjobs (vanity!) coloured engine trails (vanity!) new cyno effects (vanity!) GÇô If CCP could draw a line between game-affecting and non-game affecting content and charge Aurum for one and deliver as traditional content for the other GÇô that really did beckon the cheapening of future Eve where all kinds of content would be processed through the NeX store rather than properly integrated into the Eve sandbox through industry/exploration/agents etc.
Why would they EVER produce clothing bpcs and lp offers to award actual gameplay when they could simply use the crass mechanism of the NeX store to foist this stuff on the credulous?
And worse yet: in order to keep this divide sacrosanct it meant the GÇ£vanityGÇ¥ stuff could never have in-game impact (and thus protect CCP from the pay-to-win allegation) which had the side-effect of marginalizing all this kind of content in the future. Clothing could never have skill modifiers and game effects, ship schemes and camo could never even slightly change the stats, no benefits from any furniture or room fittings you bought for aurum etc. Basically the NeX connection made all this new graphics content sterile from birth, representing nothing more than detritus that fills up the database but doesnGÇÖt enhance our gameplay!
Now, when I play other games (tm) I like to collect armour sets, spacesuits, hats, goggles etc that look cool AND have the right stats. In fallout 3 I loved the recon combat armour because it looked cool and didnGÇÖt mess up my stealth. In mass effect IGÇÖd often choose my suits and weapons on aesthetics, hell in dragon age I generally refused to wear the powerful archmage robes regardless of their stats because they just looked silly. But point is GÇô they had an impact on the game because of looks AND stats.
And if the price of making these things available through the NeX store in Eve is no in-game effects then for me the whole experiment is a double-fail because I hate microtransactions in a subscription game as much as I hate stupid hats and clothing that do nothing at all.
Gaming is about playing around with modifiers and stats and equipment and tweaking your fit. Eve Online grabbed me like a coke addiction the first time I saw it because of the fitting screen and customization of ships. I want to min-max, I want to juggle stats, I want to chase that ideal fit and play around with weird and wonderful modifiers. Eve was just like Magic the Gathering deck-building but with ships in a lovely multiplayer Elite style universe GÇô how can that fail?
So when the realization of Incarna hit with drab clothing that does nothing but bypass the eve player economy I just came to believe that the whole NeX concept is evil and needs to be thrown down a flight of stairs and shot three times at the bottom, because it represents nothing so much as cheapening the dream and vision of Eve Online the player-driven economic and combat sandbox.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
370
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 12:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
So hereGÇÖs my pitch:
1. Change the NeX store so it sells only out of game items. These to include EON subs, tee-shirts that can be autoprinted with your avatar face, corp or alliance logo, coffee mugs, mouse mats, whatever really. Make it a resource to allow players to buy out of game stuff that will help market Eve in the real world. Have the prices variable on price-indices for PLEX demand to ensure profitability for CCP by all means. Just keep it completely away from the in-game feature set of Eve online.
2. Commit to delivering all existing and future clothing and accessories for Avatars, ship skins, ship logos etc via traditional Eve sandbox tools. Have blueprints for manufacturing these things, have them come from exploration, lp, pirate drops, have them part of invention, have them require special PI production chains, have players find, research and market these things and put them on the market for players to buy.
3. Give clothing, accessories, skins and such ... stats. Make it a part of the game. Make me want to buy a set of Stalker Combat Goggles because they give +3% tracking for small frigate guns. Make me want the advanced model because they come with some UI tweaks that suit frigate combat. Make people go find and manufacture the parts for ludicrously rare bloodsilk Sani Sabik ceremonial robes because they come with bonus LP rewards and access to the inner sanctums of cultist burial tombs (which at some bright point in the future maybe youGÇÖll be able to undock your avatar into.) Make beautiful black dresses and silken kimonos that give bonuses to fast talk and social etc. Basically GÇô once this stuff is in the player-manufactured domain itGÇÖs okay to give it game effects.
4. Ship skins and visual customization GÇô these can also have effects if the GÇ£kitsGÇ¥ whatever they are called, are also produced by players for players. Deep black GÇ£stealth skinsGÇ¥ reducing signature a bit, camo and faction navy skins to increase LP rewards fractionally, pirate skins change performance in small ways. Just have everything tweak the stats a little and allow players to customize their looks and stats. Hell, you could have the ability to add those little searchlights and beams to ships to give them a bonus to hacking or salvage or whatnot. It seems petty perhaps, but the search for the perfect ship in Eve is one of the drivers that keeps us all playing.
Some obvious questions and answers:
1. Hey Jade obviously CCP needed more money thatGÇÖs why they launched NeX now you want to take it from them?
A. Eve already has Microtransactions GÇô they are called PLEX. CSM consulted with and received the go-ahead on this from the CSM and the PLEX experiment has been successfully integrated with the game world and economy. Not everyone likes it, but most players accept it. PLEX lets RL rich players spend RL money to get more ISK to spend on stuff. The key to CCP increasing revenues in PLEX is to sell more PLEX. They sell more PLEX by making the game interesting and having things for people to aspire to that cost more ISK than they can easily spend with normal gameplay. People spend RL cash to buy PLEX to sell so they can afford Faction Implant sets. They will do the same for rare faction clothing and combat goggles that look cool and give them combat benefits. I donGÇÖt believe Eve needs a second stream of microtransaction based around the NeX store for in-game items vanity-only or not.
2. All that stuff you said sounds great but havenGÇÖt CCP just committed to FIS-only focus and now you want them designing clothes and frilly knickers again?
A. When the clothing has an in-game (and often in-space) effects then it is part of the core Eve experience. I personally love customization, I love new modules, new technology, drugs and boosters, I adore rigs and implants and all that stuff. Make clothing and accessories another kind of customization and its part of the FiS experience. You know how seasoned small unit pvpGÇÖers take a long look at enemy ships to see the kind of turrets and shielding effects displayed to judge their attack strategy. I want to be looking at a particular avatar to check out the kind of combat goggles he might have to give me a hint on his methods and specialisation. ItGÇÖs the kind of thing you donGÇÖt have to do GÇô but if you do can give you the edge. This kind of complexity is what makes Eve great.
3. But surely giving all the clothing and accessories and ship skins and whatnot stats is a HUGE job and weGÇÖve just seen CCP is incapable of delivering more than 1 racial CQ in 5 years for release. How can you possibly expect them to manage all that stuff?
A. IGÇÖm giving Hillmar the benefit of doubt and taking him at his word. If this is a true reallocation of all teams towards core Eve content then they will have plenty of development effort at their hands in the coming year. And if they are going to now take advice on their production methods and project management we might well see a radically-improved scale of delivery from the company. I honestly believe they have been underperforming for years now due to poor internal structures and frankly confused management. WeGÇÖve seen what they used to be able to do with Exodus and Apocrypha which were giant expansions with tonnes of content and interest and those are the kind of expansions the game now needs to keep it fresh. The changes IGÇÖm suggesting in this thread would be a bullet point or two in the Exodus feature list. I have to believe that CCP could recapture the ability to produce on that scale again.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
370
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 12:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
4. But Jade why do you hate NeX so much, canGÇÖt we just keep the NeX store for truly prestige rare items and have other things produced by bpos and lp?
A. No, no, a thousand times no. The problem with NeX is human nature. If you have an easy and a hard way to do things you end up taking the easy way. Its easier for CCP to deliver their new clothing and accessory content without stats via NeX and just walk away. Its the easiest quickest, dirtiest option. But it isnGÇÖt the right option. As long as NeX exists for in-game items it means that there cannot be stats and game-effects for clothing and accessories AND there will always be competition between the cheap and dirty delivery method and the proper Eve sandbox delivery method. When crunch time comes tell me which option will mostly win? I want all Eve content properly integrated with the economic sandbox and evolving one-world paradigm of New Eden and frankly so should you.
So to summarise:
I would like all in-game items removed from the NeX store and the NeX store itself retasked for the sale of out of game items for direct sale to players. (If this is not feasible then just remove the NeX store entirely). I would like all items of clothing/accessories/skins etc in the game to have in-game effects and be entirely player manufactured from sources discovered and utilized in-game.
I would like future iterations of Incarna to be a showcase for things that we as players find and build and buy (from the player market) and use in-game.
In this way I believe that Incarna can be saved and made into a full and healthy feature of Eve Online rather than being a red-headed stepchild of MT-greed and castrated play-to-win folly.
And core Eve gameplay will be rewarded with another level of customization that means all of us can do a bit more juggling of stats and asthetics in our search for our virtual space identities in New Eden.
Thanks for reading!
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
142
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 12:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aye I can't say I disagree. Although any bonus on anything revolving assets on your avatar shouldn't become silly and very very minimal. Mostly based in the "social" atmosphere, with perhaps the exception of implant like items.
We should be given the tools to build an out of ship economy and make it thrive just like we did in space and on the ground. We have all the rescources from LP, commodities and loot to polytextiles and rubber. Let us use them. I'll guarantee we'll come up with better looking, more immersive clothing then the silver/grey/brown shirts/skirts we have today.
But like it or not it the NeX store made sure player would not be able to do anything of note in an incarna build around it. Give players the tools to do this and it will be better then any preplanned CCP idea. Interconnect all the different areas you' concentrate on, don't divide them. - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
Mashie Saldana
Veto. Veto Corp
27
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 12:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
I like this idea, and as the items will be possible to make in game they should also be destroyed just like implants if you wear them while podded. [Insert signature image here] |
Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
25
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 13:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
I completely agree. They had cloth rolls in the game as NPC goods. No reason that they should be able to produce it in PI. How about leather from those cattle or slave hound leather.
The possibilities are endless.
This could also increase the benefit of developing Walking in Stations as store fronts could actually be made worthwhile if they where the instillations where production of said new products occur at faster rates, etc.
EDIT: A TLDR, at the beginning or the end of your post, would be beneficial.
Slade |
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CCP Fallout
C C P C C P Alliance
199
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Posted - 2011.10.11 13:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Moved from GD to Features & Ideas CCP Fallout Associate Community Manager EVE Online @ccp_fallout |
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Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
42
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 13:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Good suggestions. I'm not sure I would like to have clothes with stats at all, but think I could live with that, if kept to a minimum.
Back in the days when they first talked about Incarna tailor shops owned by players were on the table and the Nex Store blocks that vision. The whole economy should be player-controlled. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
375
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 14:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:I like this idea, and as the items will be possible to make in game they should also be destroyed just like implants if you wear them while podded.
Absolutely ... once these items enter the game as properly player-crafted items they should abide by all the laws of eve :)
Fly with a fancy black dress and tiara lose it when your pod gets vaporized!
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
rodyas
The Scope Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 15:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Wouldnt mind fashioning them as well. My only hiccup was the price for them, and maybe that would help smooth them out. Though suppose CCP doesnt like it, they were hoping to make some extra dough off the NEX or something akin to that. Imagine that would have to be worked out as well.
Also quick question.
With establishments not coming for awhile. Wondering if that will hurt people buying the clothes, or if more clothe designs will be released soon as well. Imagined walking in stations helped sell them, or more would buy them once that was out. Suppose still could release fish tank though. Or posters. |
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Mokokan
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.10.11 15:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Mashie Saldana wrote:I like this idea, and as the items will be possible to make in game they should also be destroyed just like implants if you wear them while podded. Absolutely ... once these items enter the game as properly player-crafted items they should abide by all the laws of eve :) Fly with a fancy black dress and tiara lose it when your pod gets vaporized!
The only effect a fancy black dress and tiara should have in space is making your ship inoperable and dead in space because you're not naked, in goo, and hooked up to the pod. If you want to be a passenger and be stylish, then let somebody else drive. The game just about self-destructed over this, and you just reworded the concept and threw it back at us. NO.
Make the NEX items part of the sandbox, with BPO's and sell them in stations......but let them remain clothes. NOT magic game-altering cloaks. What color shirt you wear should have no effect on your ship's stats. It should be in your cargo hold when you're in your pod. |
David Estarra
Starside Lost
30
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Posted - 2011.10.11 15:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
An excellent, well thought out proposal. For what it's worth you have my complete agreement with this idea!
But I still want my backless leather chaps.. (+2 modifier to swagger when runway walking..)
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Forum Bug
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 15:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
I also agree, I wonder if CCP still has the heart for a sandbox, because the Nex shop will eventually break the sandbox if used in its current form. Bringing the items into the eve economy and into eve laws will enhance the sandbox and improve RP as well as lead to some interesting ideas around in game content.
The CSM should do more about this i think they capitulated a little too easy with the Nex store implementation, (I have never liked Saleens view on the store). That said i can understand why when so many other things were going on at the time.
I can't envision how they are going to reverse it due to players already departing with money for items but it should be done none the less.. |
Salx
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.10.11 15:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
First Off Holy wall of text bat man!
But yes I agree with you on everything! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK! |
Azahni Vah'nos
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
32
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Posted - 2011.10.11 15:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Definately more like what it should have been.
It's actually pretty sad how CCP went from all that was touted to be in ambulation, to what we ended up with in Incarna. They gutted it to shoehorn in the NEX store.
Having player crafted clothing ,ship painting, CQ furniture/ornamental items, etc creates another avenue to widen the games appeal for more players, both within the game and without. As I have said before ... an opportunity lost.
Nex (Cash Shop)-á/ Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna |
Mokokan
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.10.11 15:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
NEXt you will be advocating introducing new races to New Eden.......Elves, Dwarves, and Orcs......and a new function to PI, fishing on the planets......... |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
377
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 15:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
Forum Bug wrote:I also agree, I wonder if CCP still has the heart for a sandbox, because the Nex shop will eventually break the sandbox if used in its current form. Bringing the items into the eve economy and into eve laws will enhance the sandbox and improve RP as well as lead to some interesting ideas around in game content.
The CSM should do more about this i think they capitulated a little too easy with the Nex store implementation, (I have never liked Saleens view on the store). That said i can understand why when so many other things were going on at the time.
I can't envision how they are going to reverse it due to players already departing with money for items but it should be done none the less..
I agree with you I think the CSM should have fought much harder on the Issue of NeX and the messenging that went to CCP along the lines of "sell what you want in NeX as long as it has no in-game effects" was far too weak. I think we now have a window of opportunity this winter where CCP is taking a long look in the mirror and rethinking its strategy to encourage them to think again about NeX and remove this horrible mess from our spaceship sandbox.
As for people who have already spent cash on NeX items the solution is to ensure that the manufacture cost of these things is approximately the price they bought them for. Monocles to cost around 3.6b isk. In essence while future players wouldn't have to buy plex and convert to aurum to buy these things they'd still be paying x amount to buy off the market and hopefully the "early adopters" (NeX quislings) wouldn't feel too cheated.
But seriously, the time to solve this problem is now and CCP have a golden opportunity to announce that the Aurum/NeX experiment was not in keeping with the Eve sandbox and since it will end up being detrimental to the player led economy its being revised/altered/fired into a sun for the winter expansion.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
380
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 16:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mokokan wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Mashie Saldana wrote:I like this idea, and as the items will be possible to make in game they should also be destroyed just like implants if you wear them while podded. Absolutely ... once these items enter the game as properly player-crafted items they should abide by all the laws of eve :) Fly with a fancy black dress and tiara lose it when your pod gets vaporized! The only effect a fancy black dress and tiara should have in space is making your ship inoperable and dead in space because you're not naked, in goo, and hooked up to the pod. If you want to be a passenger and be stylish, then let somebody else drive. The game just about self-destructed over this, and you just reworded the concept and threw it back at us. NO.
You can certainly tailor the bonus given to be appropriate - fancy black dress and tiara would likely be social impacting on the grounds you might sometimes have clothes on while interacting with your agents. I do take your point partially though - but I don't think this is what almost caused the game to self-destruct as you put it. That would 18 months of no substantive development followed by a single CQ with all the content delivered by NeX and the door.
[quote[Make the NEX items part of the sandbox, with BPO's and sell them in stations......but let them remain clothes. NOT magic game-altering cloaks. What color shirt you wear should have no effect on your ship's stats. It should be in your cargo hold when you're in your pod. [/quote]
Again its detail, I was more talking the big picture but would you agree with ship skins effecting the performance of ships ? stealth coating reducing sig at the cost of shield points etc? Do you believe that kind of thing would be preferable than paying NeX aurum for skins that magically appear in the game and have no players involved in the production and reselling?
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Di Mulle
18
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Posted - 2011.10.11 16:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
Would support almost anything, but not a +2 Gun Tracking Socks.
The same approach as CCP used and fell into a trap - let's make something we themselves dunno what for, then desperately try to justify its' existence by stealing healthy parts from somewhere else.
Incarna needs gameplay on its' own. If it can't have it (I am going to let to assume it may happen not only because CCP are too impotent), so be it. Leave it as an eyecandy, that social role which was talked so much will still be here. CCP is unable to implement simpliest things. Like settting to hide signatures. So they sweep it under a rug . Children do that in their pre-shool years, CCP does it being adults. Probably because it is fearless enough. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
380
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 16:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
Di Mulle wrote:Would support almost anything, but not a +2 Gun Tracking Socks.
The same approach as CCP used and fell into a trap - let's make something we themselves dunno what for, then desperately try to justify its' existence by stealing healthy parts from somewhere else.
Incarna needs gameplay on its' own. If it can't have it (I am going to let to assume it may happen not only because CCP are too impotent), so be it. Leave it as an eyecandy, that social role which was talked so much will still be here.
What do you think about the central argument that in-game items should be removed from the NeX store and made player constructable and as a result may have an in-game effect?
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
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Miraqu
Marquie-X Corp
4
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Posted - 2011.10.11 17:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
I partly agree.
I fully support, that the items should be produced by players and simply belong to the game world (FiS). The items should be destructible, should need special skills to manufacture and could be destroyed.
They have so many resources they can build on, that they could use the PI interface or even the character creation interface to make a clothes creation interface.
However they should not have any stats.
Nex is meant as something to express yourself in an avatar-environment.
Soon it would become mandatory to use a certain item to gain the necessary bonuses and the idea behind this would evaporate really fast. If item XX gives XX bonus to XXX then you need to wear this in order to be a good/elite/pro/whatever XXX pilot.
If CCP has the vision to enable players to express oneself and do a certain RP-style character-building then you would essentially destroy the idea behind Incarna with certain items having certain stats.
It seems important for a good portion of players to have something/someone to identify with and it also seems to be a factor which prevents some players to play / start / enjoy eve.
So expressing oneself and being a , lets say effective, player would be mutually exclusive.
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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
386
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 18:55:00 -
[22] - Quote
Miraqu wrote:I partly agree.
I fully support, that the items should be produced by players and simply belong to the game world (FiS). The items should be destructible, should need special skills to manufacture and could be destroyed.
They have so many resources they can build on, that they could use the PI interface or even the character creation interface to make a clothes creation interface.
Cool
Quote:However they should not have any stats. Nex is meant as something to express yourself in an avatar-environment.
I have a bit of an issue with this "express yourself" thing - since it does seem to play into the $1000 pants rhetoric of the NeX marketing men. I would be happy with letting people change the dyes and patterns on stuff to "express themselves" individually but I do worry that clothing without stats and attributes is all too easy to relegate to the NeX ghetto and that will prevent any actual integration with the Eve economy.
Quote: Soon it would become mandatory to use a certain item to gain the necessary bonuses and the idea behind this would evaporate really fast. If item XX gives XX bonus to XXX then you need to wear this in order to be a good/elite/pro/whatever XXX pilot.
Depends on the complexity doesn't it really?
I mean take implants and implant sets at the moment - there is no one optimum implant set and instead you combine individual implants to make the ideal combination for you. Not everyone uses slave implants because not everyone flies passive armour tankers. Not everyone uses +5% large laser damage implants because not everyone flies abaddons. Even with the same ship preference you have different combinations of implants to work in different ways. Make the system complex and varied enough and you can have a big range of customization. Allow players to customize the look and feel further with dyes and patterns and you are golden.
Quote:If CCP has the vision to enable players to express oneself and do a certain RP-style character-building then you would essentially destroy the idea behind Incarna with certain items having certain stats. It seems important for a good portion of players to have something/someone to identify with and it also seems to be a factor which prevents some players to play / start / enjoy eve. So expressing oneself and being a , lets say effective, player would be mutually exclusive.
I can see your argument but I don't agree with it - given a big enough range of stuff and varied customization options.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Mokokan
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.10.11 18:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote: Again its detail, I was more talking the big picture but would you agree with ship skins effecting the performance of ships ? stealth coating reducing sig at the cost of shield points etc? Do you believe that kind of thing would be preferable than paying NeX aurum for skins that magically appear in the game and have no players involved in the production and reselling?
Definitely not. If you want to rig your ship for stealth, then use the appropriate rig or Subsystem. The one thing we agree on, is that items in the NEX, or out, should not spring from thin air. I see no problem buying and selling ships, moudules, ammo, etc from establishments, in station, or from Joe's Bar and Trading post, located on an asteroid in belt 5. As long as it comes from player discovery, invention, or manufacture; and exchanged for in-game currency.
Ship skins? Magic boots/dresses/shirts? WTF? If you're going to try to sneak this WoW crap in, at least CALL it something syfy-ish. The main reason to abolish the NEX would be to get rid of the one thing you are advocating = that purchased vanity items effect the game.
NO
..... If for no other reason than the fact you aren't wearing the darn clothes while you're in your pod. Your ship doesn't have a skin. It has a hull. The devil is in the details. [insert additional cliche here]
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
41
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Posted - 2011.10.11 19:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
I am Herzog Wolfhammer and I agree with the OP.
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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
386
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Posted - 2011.10.11 19:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
Mokokan wrote:Jade Constantine wrote: Again its detail, I was more talking the big picture but would you agree with ship skins effecting the performance of ships ? stealth coating reducing sig at the cost of shield points etc? Do you believe that kind of thing would be preferable than paying NeX aurum for skins that magically appear in the game and have no players involved in the production and reselling?
Definitely not. If you want to rig your ship for stealth, then use the appropriate rig or Subsystem. The one thing we agree on, is that items in the NEX, or out, should not spring from thin air. I see no problem buying and selling ships, moudules, ammo, etc from establishments, in station, or from Joe's Bar and Trading post, located on an asteroid in belt 5. As long as it comes from player discovery, invention, or manufacture; and exchanged for in-game currency. Ship skins? Magic boots/dresses/shirts? WTF? If you're going to try to sneak this WoW crap in, at least CALL it something syfy-ish. The main reason to abolish the NEX would be to get rid of the one thing you are advocating = that purchased vanity items effect the game. NO ..... If for no other reason than the fact you aren't wearing the darn clothes while you're in your pod. Your ship doesn't have a skin. It has a hull. The devil is in the details. [insert additional cliche here]
Of course - if you just call it a vanity only "paintjob" its much easier for the evil NeX marketeers to argue since its "vanity only" it is fine being a Microtransaction right?
Once "vanity items" are produced by players using traditional in-game methods and have some kind of an effect on the game they cease to be "vanity items" (in the parliance of greedy MT gougers)/
My reason for wanting NeX abolished is to remove the obscenity of $ bought indestructable items from the game universe. To my mind these things need to be considered as visual implants really. They can have an effect but they must be destructable if you are using them. Its a quid pro quo kinda thing.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Takamori Maruyama
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
12
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Posted - 2011.10.11 19:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
Agreed with some of the ideas....But.
They only should keep it to clothing no more than that. Just appeal, no player involved.
And with a price range of 1-8 bucks per cloth piece. After they are done with the social areas of EVE , because clothing have no sense with no other person to show it.(only if you are fapping to your avatar, now that is another case)
As for the paint jobs in the ship, they should be for free and a way to players to make money by developing and putting their artworks in the market, so players that enjoyed that ship paint job would pay it in isk to have it etc etc. The Codex Astartes guides us....*someone poke and whisper something* Oh wrong scenario...WHERE IS MY GIANT AQUARIUM?! |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
26
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Posted - 2011.10.11 20:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
Apparel with stats? No way. What kind of outrageous advantage should get someone willing to buy the monocle?
Looking cool or slick IS a bonus -to how much you attach to your avatar. And once you go social, you will see smart dressed people and clown dresed people, the same as today you see nice, thought out avatars and randomized scum.
Allowing the players to pay for "feeling that they are themselves" is a very smart move in a game where every ship looks like the next one of her kind. What is not so smart and falls beyond stupidity is to set up a store where items cost much more than what a honest player can afford to pay for the limited reward of "feeling like herself". Shall I pay my suscription or buy one single bloody skirt? Are you serious, CCP? Since when vanity was "endgame" and required to be a powerplayer, or very likely be a cheater (EMT, botting) to afford it?
And i don't want to buy low tier stuff. i am not "low tier", I've been playing this bloody game for 3 years and I don't feel like being treated like an underdog because I can't spend more than a PLEX per month in non-essential gameplay (ships, modules, suscriptions).
And because, you know, in real life I CAN buy myself 1,000 $ jeans. Jus't don't feel inclined to it, same as I don't feel inclined to pull my C.C. and get all the PLEXes I want. I CAN but I DON'T WANT. What would be the point of playing then? I should had never left X3: Reunion |
Iosue
Black Sky Hipsters
7
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Posted - 2011.10.11 21:26:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jade, Some great suggestions here, + rep for that.
I am 100% behind your idea to make clothing/gear player produced and allow the purchase of OOG items with Aurum. But, as someone else mentioned, where I see this breaking down is the idea of clothing imparting stats for pod pilots. If we are to remain true to EVE lore, there doesnGÇÖt seem to be a place for this, at least in space. However, there are a number of activities that one can partake in while docked in station that could benefit from clothing stats. As an indy player, I see a huge opportunity for some new content.
What about making the stat improvements pertain to refining, research, invention, PI or any other activities one can do in station? I know one can also do these many of these activities in space, but they could get the clothing stat bonus while docked in station using CQ. This would drastically improve the usage rates for CQ and give indy players something new to chew on.
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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
390
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Posted - 2011.10.12 08:12:00 -
[29] - Quote
Iosue wrote:Jade, Some great suggestions here, + rep for that.
I am 100% behind your idea to make clothing/gear player produced and allow the purchase of OOG items with Aurum. But, as someone else mentioned, where I see this breaking down is the idea of clothing imparting stats for pod pilots. If we are to remain true to EVE lore, there doesnGÇÖt seem to be a place for this, at least in space. However, there are a number of activities that one can partake in while docked in station that could benefit from clothing stats. As an indy player, I see a huge opportunity for some new content.
What about making the stat improvements pertain to refining, research, invention, PI or any other activities one can do in station? I know one can also do these many of these activities in space, but they could get the clothing stat bonus while docked in station using CQ. This would drastically improve the usage rates for CQ and give indy players something new to chew on.
Good ideas all round really. Makes sense that the clothing would give bonus for activities undertaken while wearing clothing :)
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Mokokan
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 13:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
NO. The only bonus your boots should give you is +2 inches of HEIGHT. The only bonus your monocle should give you is +4 watery eye. What is this fascination with magic underwear? If the PLAYER operating an establishment in a station is so inclined to give you a discount on your purchase because your cute avatar is wearing an especially short skirt, then that should be his drunken CHOICE. Not an ingame mechanic. You wearing a lab coat should have nothing to do with your refining skills or how efficiently your corporation processes moon goo. |
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