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Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
736
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 22:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:no-one gonna give is to a guy named XxXxXFrAGyYouXxXXX be smart about it, all american. what a load of bullshit.
This forum community trusted characters like "YouGotRipped", "**** Train" and "Large Trash" without hesitation.
edit: also nobody cares about audits anymore, investors are perfectly happy investing into anyone who provides an api key without the need for a middleman. stop flogging a dead horse. I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid. |
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
10
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 22:53:00 -
[32] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:Jerry T Pepridge wrote:no-one gonna give is to a guy named XxXxXFrAGyYouXxXXX be smart about it, all american. what a load of bullshit. This forum community trusted characters like "YouGotRipped", "**** Train" and "Large Trash" without hesitation. edit: also nobody cares about audits anymore, investors are perfectly happy investing into anyone who provides an api key without the need for a middleman. stop flogging a dead horse.
well the ppl who invested in kei cared about audit, ill post the all-american one as soon as he pulls the pin.
no dead horses here, the guy who started the other audit thread seems to want to do them, so i figured id show ppl how to get around it.
the passion here, from you did u get scammed or something, why u mad |
Tesal
184
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 23:10:00 -
[33] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Jerry T Pepridge wrote:Weaselior wrote:this is a pretty solid thread
maybe i'll try doing this for funsies remember to pre-pledge 20b & it'll keep me out of the thread. on the contrary i'd want you in it md loathes being told things by people it dislikes and will instinctively decide that the opposite is true, making it hilariously fun to troll md by being completely honest and watching them suddenly believe nonsense rather than listen to a goon Truth troll....
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Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
738
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 08:54:00 -
[34] - Quote
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:the passion here, from you did u get scammed or something, why u mad http://xkcd.com/386/ I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3781
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 10:24:00 -
[35] - Quote
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:Varius Xeral wrote:Jerry T Pepridge wrote:when in reality, there is threads in md where its nothing but alts(10-15) talking to each other., & 1 real mark. Sounds about right. i noticed someone just necro the kei darker scam, (i wont post in it coz it will get deleted) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=154923&find=unread --- kei darker scam http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1485448 --- the mythical vv "audit" see how long the audit is, no-one reads it, no-one posted after it, its all jibberish, & guesswork, much like candle graph. this here enabled the scammer to get his hands on more isk. now it didn't follow the formula exactly, but you will need to follow it & get that performance audit done before, before u make the big leap to 10b-20b its not an overnight job guys, you will need a few years to pull this off.
Only in your head a performance audit (a thing that shows how good or bad a guy sold his stuff) is a "legitimacy" audit. Only in your head there exist "legitimacy" audits at all. Since you don't seem totally dumb, this means you are fabricating vast loads of manure, which is understandable since you need to discredit everything and everyone figthing against your desire to creare new scam alts.
Furthermore, only someone in bad faith could link a report so old to be in the old forums with a recent scam (or player disappearance, we'll probably never know). Going by your trail of thought, if I crash my airplane in 2013 you should blame the "idiot" who certified me in 1992. Hey, the world is certainly so static and situations never change! Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
13
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 11:23:00 -
[36] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:Jerry T Pepridge wrote:the passion here, from you did u get scammed or something, why u mad http://xkcd.com/386/
haha thats an oldie but a goodie, glad its in this thread lol
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Only in your head a performance audit (a thing that shows how good or bad a guy sold his stuff) is a "legitimacy" audit. Only in your head there exist "legitimacy" audits at all. Since you don't seem totally dumb, this means you are fabricating vast loads of manure, which is understandable since you need to discredit everything and everyone figthing against your desire to creare new scam alts. Furthermore, only someone in bad faith could link a report so old to be in the old forums with a recent scam (or player disappearance, we'll probably never know). Going by your trail of thought, if I crash my airplane in 2013 you should blame the "idiot" who certified me in 1992. Hey, the world is certainly so static and situations never change! But the issue is not even here to begin with, since a performance audit does not involve ANY check on somebody and is exclusively about showing their trading performance. Everyone here knows this including you. Now go on and proceed spewing more maroon stuff, I noticed even newer players framed you in your place quite fast.
vv you're taking this personal, but what you gotto realise is, in this thread, its designed to help ppl circumvent the current system & fleece scrubs with fake "bonds". i didn't link those threads to smear you, directly.
i showed the people how to build the confidence scam. i didn't say audit was sposed to prevent scam (we all know this, its what the thread is about sperglord) but it helps people believe, or gain confidence.
that particular thread though took me a long time to find, it had to satisfy 2 criteria, its already said in this thread about players not accepting truth from trolls or goons that weasil guy you know. take a really close look at it. its so obvious, its right threre.
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:its not an overnight job guys, you will need a few years to pull this off.
the thread i linked ages is from ages ago its a valid point, i never said anything would happen overnight, if you want the big bucks, some lulz, ALOT of hate mail, 'tears; or w/e those c&p scrubs are calling it now, the usual sociopath stuff that keeps us all playing (hey we are all pretending to be something were not i know that)
new players reading that have been drawn into the game by the whole meta game thing read the thread, theres some good stuff here and now a picture.
follow the guide, it will be updated regularly, REMEMBER. i said before that vv is the legit auditer at the moment, he is a placeholder, for getting your performance audit. if someone more legit or vv quits eve, i change OP.
btw i make alot of typos im too lazy to correct, what is maroon mean>? in english language it means a shade(color) of red. is that the new 'you mad' or something |
Diesel Phumes
The Scope Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 13:11:00 -
[37] - Quote
You know, I hope that this doesn't come across as a personal attack. It may, but I have an opinion and a voice, and I'll use them both.
There are certain people on this forum who create a self-fulfilling prophecy. You call someone ugly enough, they will start to believe you. Scamming DOES NOT have to be the norm in the MD forum. We can be a niche part of the community.
To reiterate my last point, if you innundate enough threads with SCAM SCAM SCAM, you start having a psychological effect on people participating in this forum.
You know, I can't figure out with a few people on here whether they've just been burned real bad themselves in the past, or if there is something else going on.
I've presented a very poorly constructed argument, but that's okay because I don't see myself changing many opinions.
So, Jerry, instead of posting this thread, why not post something constructive such as "General guidelines to keep yourself from getting scammed." Or "Methodology and tactics to spot a scammer," or "Finding the right investee," or "Known list of MD Scammers & Alts."
There are a lot of ****ing weird people who play this game. And, bravo to that. But, this negative **** all the time. The belief that scamming has to be the norm is dead wrong. |
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
13
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 13:35:00 -
[38] - Quote
Diesel Phumes wrote: So, Jerry, instead of posting this thread, why not post something constructive such as "General guidelines to keep yourself from getting scammed." Or "Methodology and tactics to spot a scammer," or "Finding the right investee," or "Known list of MD Scammers & Alts."
please explain to me a better way to teach people to avoid scams, than to explain in detail how they work. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
740
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 14:34:00 -
[39] - Quote
The only way to reduce the number of successful scams is to bring back the MD Elite.
/me dons her flameproof suit.
The best collateral is one's standing within a community.
The intra-alliance investment forums of TEST and GSF prove this impressively - scams are extremely rare, interest rates are high and the business managers can be arsed to write more than "gief isk for station trading naow". (TEST is pretty terrible but even they heavily encourage use of Hexxx's template for investment threads.)
Why does this work? because these alliances offer a community that people actually want to be a part of, because becoming a part of these communities is not trivial and because scammers get excommunicated swiftly & consistently (often even from non-EVE-related gaming groups).
All three points are not true for present-day MD. The extended MD "community" is extremely thin and pretty ******. Posters come and go, hardly anybody stays for more than a few weeks. Reputation is basically non-existent. Scammers such as Bad Bobby, Riethe, ... get fawned over instead of excluded.
The "MD Elite" was an imperfect but imo overall successful attempt at tackling these issues.
Tearing down the social structure of MD turned what once was the most close-knit sub-community on the eve-o forums into a loose bunch of anonymous shitposters.
I've been reading this forum every other day for more than 4 years and I have around 1500 posts in MD alone; there was a time when I really felt "at home" in this forum & community - but if I am honest with myself then I care a lot more about what C&P (which I very rarely read or post in) thinks of my character than I care about present-day MD.
MD 2013. A worse community than C&P. I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid. |
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
13
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 14:47:00 -
[40] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:The only way to reduce the number of successful scams is to bring back the MD Elite.
/me dons her flameproof suit.
The best collateral is one's standing within a community.
The intra-alliance investment forums of TEST and GSF prove this impressively - scams are extremely rare, interest rates are high and the business managers can be arsed to write more than "gief isk for station trading naow". (TEST is pretty terrible but even they heavily encourage use of Hexxx's template for investment threads.)
Why does this work? because these alliances offer a community that people actually want to be a part of, because becoming a part of these communities is not trivial and because scammers get excommunicated swiftly & consistently (often even from non-EVE-related gaming groups).
All three points are not true for present-day MD. The extended MD "community" is extremely thin and pretty ******. Posters come and go, hardly anybody stays for more than a few weeks. Reputation is basically non-existent. Scammers such as Bad Bobby, Riethe, ... get fawned over instead of excluded.
The "MD Elite" was an imperfect but imo overall successful attempt at tackling these issues.
Tearing down the social structure of MD turned what once was the most close-knit sub-community on the eve-o forums into a loose bunch of anonymous shitposters.
I've been reading this forum every other day for more than 4 years and I have around 1500 posts in MD alone; there was a time when I really felt "at home" in this forum & community - but if I am honest with myself then I care a lot more about what C&P (which I very rarely read or post in) thinks of my character than I care about present-day MD.
MD 2013. A worse community than C&P.
no-one is going to flame you for that idea. those flameproof suits sometimes wear out in the butt though.
my only question is, how do you implement it? |
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shar'ra matcevsovski
white knightess
337
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 15:32:00 -
[41] - Quote
lol, good post
unfortuneatly, most MD "scammers" just skip point 1 to 3... shar'ra phone home |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3783
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 17:37:00 -
[42] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote: The "MD Elite" was an imperfect but imo overall successful attempt at tackling these issues.
Tearing down the social structure of MD turned what once was the most close-knit sub-community on the eve-o forums into a loose bunch of anonymous shitposters.
I've been reading this forum every other day for more than 4 years and I have around 1500 posts in MD alone; there was a time when I really felt "at home" in this forum & community - but if I am honest with myself then I care a lot more about what C&P (which I very rarely read or post in) thinks of my character than I care about present-day MD.
MD 2013. A worse community than C&P.
As usual I totally love your posts, please create more!
I find there are 2 issues with this.
1) The MD Elite concept aka "honor system" worked for a while until somebody started gaming it to their less than noble ends. I have no answer to how to avoid this phenomenon, sooner or latter the rotten apple starts smelling and - eventually - spreads the rot.
2) Jerry can't really "enter" into such subtleties, look at the thread title. In a MMORPG game he (and he's hardly alone) taunts those who actually roleplay. To him they are not even worth being called Investors but roleplay "investors". It's almost a similar writing but miles distant. So what happens is that he stays solidly anchored to the quite stolid and sordid basic EvE theme of "never trust anybody, they are out to take you" and keeps repeating it year after year, like a mantra.
While there are a number of guys who - while well aware of the EvE basic theme themselves - try and construct a fleeble but fun meta game and enjoy it. Raw23 statistics show that scams indeed happen but are a minority, they are a price well affordable by those who invest what they can afford to lose. The others? They'd lose all they have at the first opportunity even with somebody calling out the wolf every day.
Example of the two philosophies: VAERT. I started the charity fund because of these factors:
1) Because EvE is the first game able to redeem its currency to do good to RL people who need it. 2) Because I am super-contrarian by nature, therefore if everybody say it's impossible then I do it and slam it in their face. 3) Because if everybody say EvE is cold and harsh and everyone are your enemy then I want to prove it can be nice and helpful and altruistic.
One looking at it with another eye will see:
1) Because VV wants to setup the next newsworthy scam (even at the cost of being super banned). 2) Because VV wants to show off whatever. 3) Because VV grinds rep.
One is me and probably you, Vera / Mme another is the typical EvE denizen with no positivity, no constructivity, no sense of "going beyond the hard coded limits" or "breaking the wall".
Now, going on a tangent, imo this attitude also applies and affects RL. Visionaries become a Steve Jobs, realists become an Angela Merkel. And the world shapes high or low (called "realistic") to their visions. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Claire Coffee
Coffee Inc
69
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 17:39:00 -
[43] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:This is all very confusing. I wish someone who posts a lot on here and has a clever character name would just tell me to whom I should send my money.
Do I qualify? DRINK COFFEE Do stupid things Faster with More Energy |
Claire Coffee
Coffee Inc
69
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 17:50:00 -
[44] - Quote
Diesel Phumes wrote: So, Jerry, instead of posting this thread, why not post something constructive such as "General guidelines to keep yourself from getting scammed." Or "Methodology and tactics to spot a scammer," or "Finding the right investee," or "Known list of MD Scammers & Alts."
That's what I call "EVE effect". When people want to say something useful, they say opposite and let you figure out if it was serious or not. Goon style exactly and leaves a room to bail out in case of something going wrong. About 70 years ago in continental Europe you'd get shot in the head for this. Some countries still keeping up this practice actually ;) DRINK COFFEE Do stupid things Faster with More Energy |
Diesel Phumes
The Scope Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 19:03:00 -
[45] - Quote
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:Diesel Phumes wrote: So, Jerry, instead of posting this thread, why not post something constructive such as "General guidelines to keep yourself from getting scammed." Or "Methodology and tactics to spot a scammer," or "Finding the right investee," or "Known list of MD Scammers & Alts."
please explain to me a better way to teach people to avoid scams, than to explain in detail how they work.
Point well taken. Perspectives from more than one angle typically allow an individual to make a more well-informed decision. |
Nerdy McButtHurt Trald
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 20:58:00 -
[46] - Quote
I am glad someone bought up Hexx.
The template turned out to be the only meaningful contribution he made to MD. The fact was with that template it made it easier to scam. It was the road map to launching a bond (or scam) and gave it legitimacy.
Hexx then tried to run a bank and lost somewhere between 500-2000B ISK.
He then spent 2 years trying to develop a 3rd party insurance for ships, which failed horribly after a couple of months. How could he not realise his name was dead on the forum and people wouldn't trust him, or his product. |
Claire Coffee
Coffee Inc
70
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 21:00:00 -
[47] - Quote
Nerdy McButtHurt Trald wrote: He then spent 2 years trying to develop a 3rd party insurance for ships, which failed horribly after a couple of months.
Could you elaborate on this a little bit? I was thinking of doing this with some severe limitations of course. But it's so risky and stuff, that I would probably burn all my wealth on that. Hehehe. DRINK COFFEE Do stupid things Faster with More Energy |
Nerdy McButtHurt Trald
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 21:06:00 -
[48] - Quote
Claire Coffee wrote:Nerdy McButtHurt Trald wrote: He then spent 2 years trying to develop a 3rd party insurance for ships, which failed horribly after a couple of months.
Could you elaborate on this a little bit? I was thinking of doing this with some severe limitations of course. But it's so risky and stuff, that I would probably burn all my wealth on that. Hehehe.
He tried to develop software linking API to his 'model database'. It was designed for Hulks only at first. I think he spent hundereds of hours in development.
Did a public test and then launched, and promptly failed to get any business. Then he emo-quit, when he realised that he failed. |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations Paper Tiger Coalition
812
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 21:15:00 -
[49] - Quote
A few months back i was bored and started to dig in the old MD threads , i too joined approx 4 years ago this ''community'' and i loved this part of the forum and to be honest i still do.Together with crime and punishment my favourite forumpart but trust me when you re-read the threads and look at the names , knowing now about some of the key figures what they ''contributed to MD investments'' you're a fool to still talk about MD-elite.
There's a reason why everyone wants collateral these days and names mean nothing anymore , thank your MD elite for making clear a name and it's appearance mean jack **** when easy isk can be made.I think i can only name one name that i actually REALLY miss and that would be shar.Loved his posts big time : finesse , straight forward and spot on in most cases.
As a comment on the OP i can keep it simple : jerry just making sure he can say ''i told you so'' later on with any loan gone wrong as we are used from him.Not worth replying to in any detail as the outcome will not change.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Claire Coffee
Coffee Inc
70
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 21:28:00 -
[50] - Quote
Nerdy McButtHurt Trald wrote:Claire Coffee wrote:Nerdy McButtHurt Trald wrote: He then spent 2 years trying to develop a 3rd party insurance for ships, which failed horribly after a couple of months.
Could you elaborate on this a little bit? I was thinking of doing this with some severe limitations of course. But it's so risky and stuff, that I would probably burn all my wealth on that. Hehehe. He tried to develop software linking API to his 'model database'. It was designed for Hulks only at first. I think he spent hundereds of hours in development. Did a public test and then launched, and promptly failed to get any business. Then he emo-quit, when he realised that he failed.
Interesting. :-) Thanks for reply DRINK COFFEE Do stupid things Faster with More Energy |
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Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
740
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 21:30:00 -
[51] - Quote
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:my only question is, how do you implement it? I don't know.
I think a 3rd party forum might be a solution - other communities have emigrated from eve-o before (low-sec pirates/small gang pvpers to shc/fhc, CAOD to kugu, RPers to chatsubo/backstage). The typically smaller but more stable userbase of 3rd party forums and the opportunity for increased moderation can make it easier to form a "community".
EBANK made a half-hearted attempt at this and failed as they lacked a few interesting posters to fuel the debate and make their forum worth reading (not even their own staff used it).
If corestwo & friends migrate to the themittani.com forum that is rumored to be ready soon(tm) that might a viable seed around which a market community could form. If not there's always kugu which might be viable if you can get Setrak/Some Market Dude on board.
If you are committed to the eve-o forums then I'd suggest to start a circlejerk with at least 3-4 friends and run it in the open until others want to become part of it. Take the group around Caleb, James Tundra, Ji Sama, ... as an historical example for an "obvious" circlejerk between players who supported each other, joined each others corporations, audited each other, invested in each other, ... Such a group could become the nucleus of a new "MD Elite" if becoming part of it looks attractive enough (and it looks maybe a little less shady than the Caleb group^^). I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3783
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 23:33:00 -
[52] - Quote
flakeys wrote:I think i can only name one name that i actually REALLY miss and that would be shar.Loved his posts big time : finesse , straight forward and spot on in most cases.
I never kept it secret that Shar has been an example for me to try and follow and I really miss his posts and EvE-mails. I have to admit that I have failed a number of times to keep up to his standards, but that's what models are for: to try and come as close as possible even if it's hard or impossible to succeed.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Croesus Rockefeller
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 02:03:00 -
[53] - Quote
It is great to see that after 2 years of unsubbing MD has not changed 1 bit. Love it. |
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
15
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 04:51:00 -
[54] - Quote
Claire Coffee wrote:When people want to say something useful, they say opposite and let you figure out if it was serious or not. Goon style exactly and leaves a room to bail out in case of something going wrong.
for a gimmick account, you're catching on pretty quick.
the OP can be read 2 ways, you can use it to scam, or you can use it to go legit (there are some legit guys running these things too), the path's are the same. you can probably skip the vv stuff if you wanted to go legit, but you will still need to get some form of audit/check on your api by someone in MD, offering the service, if you have the trading history, don't post like a ****** you'll do fine.
its up to the person running the bond to scam, after all.
in the OP, in article 4, change the word 'scam' to the word 'Bond', and the title of the thread to "how to make a modern day MD bond, without being trolled" do you think people would accept it coming from me? .. no.
p clever to figure that out tbh. |
Claire Coffee
Coffee Inc
70
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 05:04:00 -
[55] - Quote
I admire you admitting I'm special DRINK COFFEE Do stupid things Faster with More Energy |
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
15
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 05:50:00 -
[56] - Quote
Claire Coffee wrote:I admire you admitting I'm special
not really i just responded to you first, im trying to respond to the others as we speak, may take a few hours though. |
Claire Coffee
Coffee Inc
70
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 06:39:00 -
[57] - Quote
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:Claire Coffee wrote:I admire you admitting I'm special not really i just responded to you first, im trying to respond to the others as we speak, may take a few hours though.
calling me a gimmick account is actually admitting I'm special don't backpedal now DRINK COFFEE Do stupid things Faster with More Energy |
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
15
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 12:13:00 -
[58] - Quote
Nerdy McButtHurt Trald wrote:The template turned out to be the only meaningful contribution he made to MD. The fact was with that template it made it easier to get a bond filled.
I touched up what you said a bit, i hope you don't mind. |
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
15
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 12:27:00 -
[59] - Quote
flakeys wrote:A few months back i was bored and started to dig in the old MD threads , i too joined approx 4 years ago this ''community'' and i loved this part of the forum and to be honest i still do.Together with crime and punishment my favourite forumpart but trust me when you re-read the threads and look at the names , knowing now about some of the key figures what they ''contributed to MD investments'' you're a fool to still talk about MD-elite.
There's a reason why everyone wants collateral these days and names mean nothing anymore , thank your MD elite for making clear a name and it's appearance mean jack **** when easy isk can be made.I think i can only name one name that i actually REALLY miss and that would be shar.Loved his posts big time : finesse , straight forward and spot on in most cases.
i also have read MD for a long time and enjoy this, C&P and sometimes GD when theres patch rage, i had a great time in there when the monocle spam was happening.
theres no reason why genuine people can't do genuine things in this game, some people are pure pessimists and refuse to budge on that, others like claire is a good example is an optimist, and is willing to give people a go.
flakeys wrote: As a comment on the OP i can keep it simple : jerry just making sure he can say ''i told you so'' later on with any loan gone wrong as we are used from him.Not worth replying to in any detail as the outcome will not change.
flakeys got ripped off in MD a few times now, once i think and i quoted him, and lol'd. his opinion of me has been low since, im pretty sure he holds a grudge, doesn't read anything i say anymore, so fair enough dude. |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations Paper Tiger Coalition
812
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 13:32:00 -
[60] - Quote
No it's because you're an irritating **** basically .I'm sorry some people are just not likable for me , you are one of those.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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