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Roxanne Dallas
Freeman Explorations Black Mesa Complex
0
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Posted - 2013.02.06 00:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Isn't it against the EULA to use macro's? If so isn't the EVE Central Contribtastic "which grabs market data with a macro and uploads it to EVE Central" against the EULA?
I know its one of those things that CCP will probably ignore because it actually helps the game but it does make a grey area I'm not happy with. |
Alex Grison
Grison Interstellar
101
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Posted - 2013.02.06 00:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
The scraper does not perform any in game action.
It reads data from the market cache files on your computer.
Its not a macro, or a violation of the EULA/TOS |
Roxanne Dallas
Freeman Explorations Black Mesa Complex
0
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Posted - 2013.02.06 01:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alex Grison wrote:The scraper does not perform any in game action.
It reads data from the market cache files on your computer.
Its not a macro, or a violation of the EULA/TOS
Quote:EVE EULA S6 SS6
You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.
And considering I and many other use EVE Central for market trading which would be MUCH harder and be MUCH less profitable without such a tool tech it is against the EULA. |
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
7
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Posted - 2013.02.06 01:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
put in a petition, you only going to be trolled here |
Ydnari
Estrale Frontiers Project Wildfire
146
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Posted - 2013.02.06 01:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Roxanne Dallas wrote:"which grabs market data with a macro and uploads it to EVE Central"
No it doesn't, and CCP have already posted their opinion on reading the cache
http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=734561&page=1#9 |
Roxanne Dallas
Freeman Explorations Black Mesa Complex
0
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Posted - 2013.02.06 01:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Actually it uses a macro to get the market to search the item on the market that it wants uploading. |
Scion Lex
LEX Investments
31
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Posted - 2013.02.06 05:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
..and **** is, technically prostitution. The only difference is the camera and the fact that it becomes taxed with said camera. The point of a legal agreement such as the EULA is to be as broad as possible, thus giving CCP the room to enforce whatever it decides is a threat/issue. It is not a law unto itself, its an agreement. They can and do look the other way when it suits them to do so. EULA=we own this and you don't. |
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
7
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Posted - 2013.02.06 05:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Roxanne Dallas wrote:Actually it uses a macro to get the market to search the item on the market that it wants uploading if you have to be technical... Seems a little nit picky to me. Especially considering the last bit "You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game" But under the needed to encompass Contribtastic that would make even applications that use the EVE API against the EULA. We will just put that down to bad wording shall we, the defintion I think they were looking for would have been better served by saying not "data" and something like "...Client files, assets, or the server or the connection to the server..." because data is such a board term. but the first sentence would still mean that Contribtastic is in violation of the EULA. "You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play." Although I must admit I am being a little nit picky as well considering EVE Central has been about for ages and not a peep has came out of CCP so either way it doesn't matter, Its was more a point of interest.
put in a petition, you only going to be trolled here |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
121
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Posted - 2013.02.06 06:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
Roxanne Dallas wrote:
And considering I and many other use EVE Central for market trading which would be MUCH harder and be MUCH less profitable without such a tool tech it is against the EULA.
You'd have to recognise that I use EVE central without the scraper and derive the same benefits, and you also invite traders who do so to compete with you by revealing your trade routes, without them doing the same for you.
ie manifestly eve central is not an ingame advantage to the user of the scraper.
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Alex Grison
Grison Interstellar
101
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Posted - 2013.02.06 20:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Roxanne Dallas wrote:Alex Grison wrote:The scraper does not perform any in game action.
It reads data from the market cache files on your computer.
Its not a macro, or a violation of the EULA/TOS Quote:EVE EULA S6 SS6
You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game. And considering I and many other use EVE Central for market trading which would be MUCH harder and be MUCH less profitable without such a tool tech it is against the EULA.
It does none of those things.
And its up to CCP to decide if something is against the EULA. If CCP thought that evecentral was a violatio, they would have done something about it a long time ago. |
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Alex Grison
Grison Interstellar
101
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Posted - 2013.02.06 20:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
Scion Lex wrote:..and **** is, technically prostitution. The only difference is the camera and the fact that it becomes taxed with said camera. The point of a legal agreement such as the EULA is to be as broad as possible, thus giving CCP the room to enforce whatever it decides is a threat/issue. It is not a law unto itself, its an agreement. They can and do look the other way when it suits them to do so. EULA=we own this and you don't.
**** is very different than prostitution.
**** actors are actors that are paid to act.
Prostitutes are being paid for sex. |
Reuben Johnson
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
33
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Posted - 2013.02.06 21:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Alex Grison wrote:Scion Lex wrote:..and **** is, technically prostitution. The only difference is the camera and the fact that it becomes taxed with said camera. The point of a legal agreement such as the EULA is to be as broad as possible, thus giving CCP the room to enforce whatever it decides is a threat/issue. It is not a law unto itself, its an agreement. They can and do look the other way when it suits them to do so. EULA=we own this and you don't. **** is very different than prostitution. **** actors are actors that are paid to act. Prostitutes are being paid for sex.
Paid to act? In ****? That's like saying prosititutes aren't paind for sex, their paid to leave. |
Alex Grison
Grison Interstellar
101
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Posted - 2013.02.06 21:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
Reuben Johnson wrote:Alex Grison wrote:Scion Lex wrote:..and **** is, technically prostitution. The only difference is the camera and the fact that it becomes taxed with said camera. The point of a legal agreement such as the EULA is to be as broad as possible, thus giving CCP the room to enforce whatever it decides is a threat/issue. It is not a law unto itself, its an agreement. They can and do look the other way when it suits them to do so. EULA=we own this and you don't. **** is very different than prostitution. **** actors are actors that are paid to act. Prostitutes are being paid for sex. Paid to act? In ****? That's like saying prosititutes aren't paind for sex, their paid to leave.
Yes, that is the legal distinction. Po-Ħrn films are the same as movies. They people in them are paid to act.
A prostitute is someone who is paid for sex.
Anytime you pay someone for sex that is prostitution.
If you pay for someone to be an actor then they are acting.
The reason that there are never "mix ups" is because people who produce **** videos do not walk around the streets looking for people to be actors.
If you get together with a prostitute and are busted by a cop, the excuse of "We are making ****" wouldn't cut it. You would be arrested, and you would have to argue case to the judge. |
Reuben Johnson
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
33
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Posted - 2013.02.06 21:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
EveCentral uses to players to download market info for them. In other words, the player base is the Macro. |
Reuben Johnson
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
33
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Posted - 2013.02.06 21:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alex Grison wrote:Reuben Johnson wrote:Alex Grison wrote:Scion Lex wrote:..and **** is, technically prostitution. The only difference is the camera and the fact that it becomes taxed with said camera. The point of a legal agreement such as the EULA is to be as broad as possible, thus giving CCP the room to enforce whatever it decides is a threat/issue. It is not a law unto itself, its an agreement. They can and do look the other way when it suits them to do so. EULA=we own this and you don't. **** is very different than prostitution. **** actors are actors that are paid to act. Prostitutes are being paid for sex. Paid to act? In ****? That's like saying prosititutes aren't paind for sex, their paid to leave. Yes, that is the legal distinction. Po-Ħrn films are the same as movies. They people in them are paid to act. A prostitute is someone who is paid for sex. Anytime you pay someone for sex that is prostitution. If you pay for someone to be an actor then they are acting. The reason that there are never "mix ups" is because people who produce **** videos do not walk around the streets looking for people to be actors. If you get together with a prostitute and are busted by a cop, the excuse of "We are making ****" wouldn't cut it. You would be arrested, and you would have to argue case to the judge.
You're assuming their's "acting" in ****. paying 2 people (or more) to have sex while you watch is prositution. You don't have to be a direct participant. Paying a Pimp (say, Vivid) to to record two people is still a form of prostitution. And if you think their is nay acting in ****, you've obviously never watched ****.
Edit, nevermind this post, I missread the above quote reply |
Alex Grison
Grison Interstellar
101
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Posted - 2013.02.06 21:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
Reuben Johnson wrote:Alex Grison wrote:Reuben Johnson wrote:Alex Grison wrote:Scion Lex wrote:..and **** is, technically prostitution. The only difference is the camera and the fact that it becomes taxed with said camera. The point of a legal agreement such as the EULA is to be as broad as possible, thus giving CCP the room to enforce whatever it decides is a threat/issue. It is not a law unto itself, its an agreement. They can and do look the other way when it suits them to do so. EULA=we own this and you don't. **** is very different than prostitution. **** actors are actors that are paid to act. Prostitutes are being paid for sex. Paid to act? In ****? That's like saying prosititutes aren't paind for sex, their paid to leave. Yes, that is the legal distinction. Po-Ħrn films are the same as movies. They people in them are paid to act. A prostitute is someone who is paid for sex. Anytime you pay someone for sex that is prostitution. If you pay for someone to be an actor then they are acting. The reason that there are never "mix ups" is because people who produce **** videos do not walk around the streets looking for people to be actors. If you get together with a prostitute and are busted by a cop, the excuse of "We are making ****" wouldn't cut it. You would be arrested, and you would have to argue case to the judge. You're assuming their's "acting" in ****. paying 2 people (or more) to have sex while you watch is prositution. You don't have to be a direct participant. Paying a Pimp (say, Vivid) to to record two people is still a form of prostitution. And if you think their is nay acting in ****, you've obviously never watched ****.
I am talking about the Legal Distinction Between **** and prostitution.
**** is legal to produce in the US ( where I am from )
Prostitution is illegal in the large majority of the US.
The reason that **** is legal is because they are not being paid for sex. They are being paid to be an actor. What the actor does, is up to the producers. And is protected by the first amendment. |
Minerva Zen
Swords of Valor
21
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Posted - 2013.02.06 22:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Fly Gallente: You can haz teh holoreels! |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2585
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Posted - 2013.02.07 00:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Roxanne Dallas wrote:Actually it uses a macro to get the market to search the item on the market that it wants uploading if you have to be technical... Seems a little nit picky to me.
Nope, it uses tools that CCP built into the EVE Online browser in a way that CCP explicitly endorses. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Dex Thunakar
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
13
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Posted - 2013.02.08 09:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
lol I don't see anything about eve-central that goes against the EULA
it rly does not involve any form of macroing whatsoever... unless you call reading text files on your computer macroing. |
Roxanne Dallas
Freeman Explorations Black Mesa Complex
0
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Posted - 2013.02.10 01:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Roxanne Dallas wrote:
And considering I and many other use EVE Central for market trading which would be MUCH harder and be MUCH less profitable without such a tool tech it is against the EULA.
You'd have to recognise that I use EVE central without the scraper and derive the same benefits, and you also invite traders who do so to compete with you by revealing your trade routes, without them doing the same for you. ie manifestly eve central is not an ingame advantage to the user of the scraper.
Eve central is as much a benefit to me as it is to anyone who uses it. And if you updated its records more often it would be of even greater usage to you and everyone in the station you are in.
Flawed logic my dear friend. also it does not state that it has to be your advantage
"You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play."
The only part where it says you is to say that you may not use the software that...
So yeah you could be f***ing robin hood they would still ban you, or take the money that you gave away. |
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Roxanne Dallas
Freeman Explorations Black Mesa Complex
0
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Posted - 2013.02.10 01:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
Alex Grison wrote:Roxanne Dallas wrote:Alex Grison wrote:The scraper does not perform any in game action.
It reads data from the market cache files on your computer.
Its not a macro, or a violation of the EULA/TOS Quote:EVE EULA S6 SS6
You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game. And considering I and many other use EVE Central for market trading which would be MUCH harder and be MUCH less profitable without such a tool tech it is against the EULA. It does none of those things. And its up to CCP to decide if something is against the EULA. If CCP thought that evecentral was a violatio, they would have done something about it a long time ago.
Didn't I say that here "Although I must admit I am being a little nit picky as well considering EVE Central has been about for ages and not a peep has came out of CCP so either way it doesn't matter, Its was more a point of interest." |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1123
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Posted - 2013.02.10 01:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
Roxanne Dallas wrote:"You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play."
I'm sure there are interpretations, but my interpretation of this statement is "in game"
IE, eve central may help me to figure out profitability of an item to purchase in game. But it is not purchasing the item for me in game. I am doing that when I right click "buy"
When that statement talks about acquisition of objects etc, IMO it is talking about just that. Buying the objects for instance. I don't have a macro creating 100 buy orders. I am creating 100 buy orders. Whether I used an external resource to figure out what to create 100 buy orders for is not relevant here.
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Styth spiting
Ion Corp. NightSong Directorate
281
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Posted - 2013.02.10 08:55:00 -
[23] - Quote
Roxanne Dallas wrote:Isn't it against the EULA to use macro's? If so isn't the EVE Central Contribtastic "which gets the client to search market for the item that EVE Central need." which is against the EULA isn't it?
I know its one of those things that CCP will probably ignore because it actually helps the game but it does make a grey area I'm not happy with.
The 3rd party tools that do the market scraping (used by eve mon, eve-centeral, eve-marketeer, etc) only grabs data on items when you click on that item in the market window. it doesn't iterate though the market windows automatically for you, or pull up data magically without you (the player) clicking on items which are then stored on your local machine and then scrapped though by these 3rd party tools.
If the tool automatically did something to get the market data on its own then yes it would be macroing / automated but since it cannot do anything without the player actually initializing some type of click on an item it doesn't really fall under a EULA offense.
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RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2637
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Posted - 2013.02.10 09:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
Styth spiting wrote:If the tool automatically did something to get the market data on its own then yes it would be macroing / automated but since it cannot do anything without the player actually initializing some type of click on an item it doesn't really fall under a EULA offense.
There are perfectly legal tools that cycle through market windows. They use hooks that CCP intentionally put into the IGB for that use and whose use is explicitly allowed by CCP.
They do not buy anything, they simply cycle through the market, updating caches. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Roxanne Dallas
freeman explorations Black Mesa Complex
0
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Posted - 2013.02.13 03:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Roxanne Dallas wrote:"You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play."
I'm sure there are interpretations, but my interpretation of this statement is "in game" IE, eve central may help me to figure out profitability of an item to purchase in game. But it is not purchasing the item for me in game. I am doing that when I right click "buy" When that statement talks about acquisition of objects etc, IMO it is talking about just that. Buying the objects for instance. I don't have a macro creating 100 buy orders. I am creating 100 buy orders. Whether I used an external resource to figure out what to create 100 buy orders for is not relevant here.
Depends on what you mean by patterns of play and weather you are still playing the game when you use third party apps. And at least in my opinion when you use EFT or anything that you do that links into the game your playing the game but that isn't using any macros or anything so yeah.
"You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play."
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Roxanne Dallas
freeman explorations Black Mesa Complex
0
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Posted - 2013.02.13 03:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
Quote:The 3rd party tools that do the market scraping (used by eve mon, eve-centeral, eve-marketeer, etc) only grabs data on items when you click on that item in the market window.
Nope if you use http://eve-central.com/home/upload_suggest.html with the Contribtastic it opens up the market tab and will start flipping though market data. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2676
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Posted - 2013.02.13 03:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Styth spiting wrote:If the tool automatically did something to get the market data on its own then yes it would be macroing / automated but since it cannot do anything without the player actually initializing some type of click on an item it doesn't really fall under a EULA offense.
There are perfectly legal tools that cycle through market windows. They use hooks that CCP intentionally put into the IGB for that use and whose use is explicitly allowed by CCP. They do not buy anything, they simply cycle through the market, updating caches.
CCP Sreegs may have banned them today, though. I'm not sure.
Consider sending in a petition about them before use. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Roxanne Dallas
freeman explorations Black Mesa Complex
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 04:00:00 -
[28] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Styth spiting wrote:If the tool automatically did something to get the market data on its own then yes it would be macroing / automated but since it cannot do anything without the player actually initializing some type of click on an item it doesn't really fall under a EULA offense.
There are perfectly legal tools that cycle through market windows. They use hooks that CCP intentionally put into the IGB for that use and whose use is explicitly allowed by CCP. They do not buy anything, they simply cycle through the market, updating caches.
Thank you someone who knows what there talking about thank you, then there is no conflict with the EULA or anything else. And if the hooks are there and they want to ban them then they should simply remove them, because its simply using what CCP has put there so they can f*** off until they remove them if its such a big deal. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2677
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 04:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
Roxanne Dallas wrote:Thank you someone who knows what there talking about thank you, then there is no conflict with the EULA or anything else. And if the hooks are there and they want to ban them then they should simply remove them, because its simply using what CCP has put there so they can f*** off until they remove them if its such a big deal.
As I said, consider filing a petition before using IGB market cycling and cache scraping tools. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
377
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 04:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
Wasnt CCP planning on charging sites that use API features like this, actual real world money?
If so then I think some one up there wasn't perfectly happy about something, so are the sites being charges monies now? |
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