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Tydeus Mideia
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.02.06 13:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm sure this has been discussed plenty of times before, but why are people so anti-missile when it comes to PVP? They have a nice long range, will hit for certain lest your target has Defender missiles and with decent skills, outrunning their blast radius would be hard for a bc/bs. Or is there something I'm missing apart from the delayed damage due to flight time? |
zatazon
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
37
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Posted - 2013.02.06 13:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Tydeus Mideia wrote:I'm sure this has been discussed plenty of times before, but why are people so anti-missile when it comes to PVP? They have a nice long range, will hit for certain lest your target has Defender missiles and with decent skills, outrunning their blast radius would be hard for a bc/bs. Or is there something I'm missing apart from the delayed damage due to flight time?
Missiles are not really that bad. The downside is it takes time for them to reach the target and apply damage where guns are instant. So in theory you could warp in at range say 80-90km with arty vs cruise or heavies. fire probably 2 volleys from the guns and then proceed to warp out and not even be hit by the missiles while you just applied damage to the target.
At closer ranges this matters less and at longer ranges it matters more. You just have to figure out how you plan to ustilize missiles in PvP. |
Maire Gheren
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
132
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Posted - 2013.02.06 13:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tydeus Mideia wrote:I'm sure this has been discussed plenty of times before, but why are people so anti-missile when it comes to PVP? They have a nice long range, will hit for certain lest your target has Defender missiles and with decent skills, outrunning their blast radius would be hard for a bc/bs. Or is there something I'm missing apart from the delayed damage due to flight time? Because it makes people have to wait while the guy in the long range missile boat goes 'wait, my missile hasnt got there so I can get on the KM'. Alternately 'Stop shooting so everyone can lamely poke the guy before he pops.. never mind, your assault missiles just got here.' |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
536
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Posted - 2013.02.06 13:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Main problem with missiles is that unlike guns range does not compensate for "tracking" on smaller targets
They are equally **** against small stuff at all ranges. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
625
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Posted - 2013.02.06 14:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Quote:Main problem with missiles is that unlike guns range does not compensate for "tracking" on smaller targets
This is an advantage. Large ships aren't going to have the luxury of range control against small ships in most circumstances..These large ships will still do damage against ships close up whereas turret ships are reduced to their drones. |
JAF Anders
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
13
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Posted - 2013.02.06 14:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
[Note: the author of this post disagrees with the notion that missile ships are generally frowned upon for PvP]
Missiles can be interdicted mid-flight (defender missiles, smartbombs, bombs).
No EWAR directly inhibits the operation of missiles. |
Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
236
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Posted - 2013.02.06 15:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
When you look at Faction Warefare you will notice that Missle-Platforms are currently used very often for nano-kiters, especially the Hookbill is very very good at this. You can spam missiles from range while tracking disrupting your target or using other e-war. In fact with the last patch missile frigates/destroyers in general got significantly improved. I would even say they are OP because defender missiles are broken, and smart bombs are very risky and hart to use with frigates and bombs are forbidden in low-sec. So there is currently no real counter measure to small missiles at least for 20km-range, frigate scenarios. |
Colt Blackhawk
Forced Penetration Hopeless Addiction
61
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Posted - 2013.02.06 17:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Quote:When you look at Faction Warefare you will notice that Missle-Platforms are currently used very often for nano-kiters, especially the Hookbill is very very good at this. You can spam missiles from range while tracking disrupting your target or using other e-war. In fact with the last patch missile frigates/destroyers in general got significantly improved. I would even say they are OP because defender missiles are broken, and smart bombs are very risky and hart to use with frigates and bombs are forbidden in low-sec. So there is currently no real counter measure to small missiles at least for 20km-range, frigate scenarios.
Wrong :P Opinion of a 95% hook and condor pilot: Well missiles are okay now. Light missiles perform very good vs everything that is as big like a dessie or slow. Slow ab tristans-> no problem. Fast Firetails, Interceptors, drams -->light missiles do still laughable damage. Not usable vs very fast targets. Died sometimes horribly in my Hook vs fast targets like firetails and went down while they even had still 75% shield because my missiles didn-Št hit anything. Comets/Firetails that burn on you and scram you are the biggest nightmare of a kiter hook pilot. There are pros and contras concerning light missiles. |
Paul Panala
Among the Shadows
8
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Posted - 2013.02.06 18:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tydeus Mideia wrote:I'm sure this has been discussed plenty of times before, but why are people so anti-missile when it comes to PVP? They have a nice long range, will hit for certain lest your target has Defender missiles and with decent skills, outrunning their blast radius would be hard for a bc/bs. Or is there something I'm missing apart from the delayed damage due to flight time?
I am a somewhat new player and use missiles myself, but I honestly think the biggest issue with missiles is that they sucked for a long time. If you look all the patches involving missiles for the last several years, they have slowly been getting better and better (with the exception of the recent HM nerf). Also in the past ships where much faster, it was common for PvP ships to be so fast that missiles would run out of flight time before hitting even nearby targets. I think a lot of the thought behind missiles comes from those older game imbalances. |
Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
237
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Posted - 2013.02.07 08:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote: Wrong :P Opinion of a 95% hook and condor pilot: Well missiles are okay now. Light missiles perform very good vs everything that is as big like a dessie or slow. Slow ab tristans-> no problem. Fast Firetails, Interceptors, drams -->light missiles do still laughable damage. Not usable vs very fast targets. Died sometimes horribly in my Hook vs fast targets like firetails and went down while they even had still 75% shield because my missiles didn-Št hit anything. Comets/Firetails that burn on you and scram you are the biggest nightmare of a kiter hook pilot. There are pros and contras concerning light missiles.
Ever heard about Precision Light Missiles, Target Painters or simply switching from Kinetic to EM damage? There are indeed people existing who fit their Firetails specifically against kiting Hookbills (because they or so damn OP and everybody hates them) and they are usually that clever to raise ther Kinetic resists for this job. However, these specially fitted ship are crap against anything else than the very narrow list of targets they are fitted against. What I want to say: Just because you lose a Kiting-Missile-Ship to someone doesn't mean that missiles are broken or crap in general. |
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Colt Blackhawk
Forced Penetration Hopeless Addiction
61
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Posted - 2013.02.07 09:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Quote:Ever heard about Precision Light Missiles, Target Painters or simply switching from Kinetic to EM damage? There are indeed people existing who fit their Firetails specifically against kiting Hookbills (because they or so damn OP and everybody hates them) and they are usually that clever to raise ther Kinetic resists for this job. However, these specially fitted ship are crap against anything else than the very narrow list of targets they are fitted against. What I want to say: Just because you lose a Kiting-Missile-Ship to someone doesn't mean that missiles are broken or crap in general.
Switch to em ammo in hook or condor and you can-Št forget it completely. I didn-Št say missiles are crap but they are very specialized.
Yesterday for example. Me in condor the other guy in hook and boosted :P I had 2 damps on him so he chickened (and because of the fleet behind me). I burned and made it maybe even close 16km to him. My missiles in condor did "0", I repeat "0" damage. Even at 16km range but the hook made 5.5k m/s. I managed it maybe to get 5 rounds on him with "0" damage. And yes I have good missile skills. Light missiles are very specialized and maybe weapon no1 vs dessies but vs fast targets they are horrible bad.
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Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
237
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Posted - 2013.02.07 13:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote: Yesterday for example. Me in condor the other guy in hook and boosted :P I had 2 damps on him so he chickened (and because of the fleet behind me). I burned and made it maybe even close 16km to him. My missiles in condor did "0", I repeat "0" damage. Even at 16km range but the hook made 5.5k m/s. I managed it maybe to get 5 rounds on him with "0" damage.
I am not in game right now, but as far as I remember the Condor does not get any missile speed boost bonus. Which means if the Hookbill is at 16km range and you are buring after him he simply out-run your missiles and thus your missiles where doing 0 damage. Light Missiles have a base speed of 3750m/s, with full skills it goes up to 5625m/s. This means that in your case the missile would need more than 2 minutes to hit the target if he is buring aways from you which is far outside the missile flight time!
Next time you should better fly a Hookbill yourself, since it gets 50% missile speed bonus which results in a missile speed of 8437m/s and with this speed you would easily hit him after 7 seconds of missile flight time (which means you need level 5 for missile flight time!). Alternatively you can also fit rigs which increase missile speed.
Basically, missiles are only useful for high-speed fights if you are either chased by your enemy or if you have a ship which provides speed boost for missiles. Once you know this you can prepare for it. |
Colt Blackhawk
Forced Penetration Hopeless Addiction
61
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Posted - 2013.02.08 08:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Quote:I am not in game right now, but as far as I remember the Condor does not get any missile speed boost bonus. Which means if the Hookbill is at 16km range and you are buring after him he simply out-run your missiles and thus your missiles where doing 0 damage. Light Missiles have a base speed of 3750m/s, with full skills it goes up to 5625m/s. This means that in your case the missile would need more than 2 minutes to hit the target if he is buring aways from you which is far outside the missile flight time!
Next time you should better fly a Hookbill yourself, since it gets 50% missile speed bonus which results in a missile speed of 8437m/s and with this speed you would easily hit him after 7 seconds of missile flight time (which means you need level 5 for missile flight time!). Alternatively you can also fit rigs which increase missile speed.
Basically, missiles are only useful for high-speed fights if you are either chased by your enemy or if you have a ship which provides speed boost for missiles. Once you know this you can prepare for it.
Omg. http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1465593 There you can see I am a missile only guy. Missiles are good but NOT for high speed fights. Even a hook will have problems to do damage on slasher when both are burning 5k m/s.... as I saw it today. Light missiles for targets at 5k m/s and more= CRAP. Total CRAP. But vs slower targets and dessies= great. |
Tractus Vesica
4th Winged Hussars
8
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Posted - 2013.02.08 09:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
ITT: Watch two dudes argue about hookbills. Paranoia is the glue which holds 0.0 together. |
Colt Blackhawk
Forced Penetration Hopeless Addiction
61
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Posted - 2013.02.08 12:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
Quote:ITT: Watch two dudes argue about hookbills.
Rofl. Yep you are right. Some rules for Kiter Hook/Condor Pilots: Target is fast----> chicken out!!! lol |
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