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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2669
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Posted - 2013.02.12 23:36:00 -
[31] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:i agree with this, if i had to agree with anything.
ccp say they like choices, so a cargo hold big enough for *exactly* three of each type of crystal (minus one, as they will already be in the strips) plus 25m3 spare so you can swap crystals due to the bad coding is the no brainer. your choice is then have crystals for every ore, so you're prepared for every situation, or alternatively sacrifice some types of ore in order to carry reloads.
it's a choice, ccp like choices, right?
That's not a significant "choice" given that there's no reason to carry spares of something you only need to replace once every 8+hrs.
A real choice would be "which mining crystals should I bring with me to mine this belt" or "should I assign different Hulks in my fleet to specialize on different ores in the belt."
... well hey... This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Kate stark
109
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Posted - 2013.02.13 07:32:00 -
[32] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Kate stark wrote:i agree with this, if i had to agree with anything.
ccp say they like choices, so a cargo hold big enough for *exactly* three of each type of crystal (minus one, as they will already be in the strips) plus 25m3 spare so you can swap crystals due to the bad coding is the no brainer. your choice is then have crystals for every ore, so you're prepared for every situation, or alternatively sacrifice some types of ore in order to carry reloads.
it's a choice, ccp like choices, right? That's not a significant "choice" given that there's no reason to carry spares of something you only need to replace once every 8+hrs. A real choice would be "which mining crystals should I bring with me to mine this belt" or "should I assign different Hulks in my fleet to specialize on different ores in the belt." ... well hey...
that's not really a choice.
that's "i need crystals, i shall bring them. then i will need to go out of my way to change them because if i'm mining anywhere that's not high sec i won't have enough room for enough types of crystal"
there's really no choice in the matter, you either have the sufficient crystals or you don't due to the low cargo limit not because of what you put in said cargo bay. you're not making the choice, the choice is thrust upon you. not to mention unless you recycle all part-damaged crystals at the end of the day there's always a need for replacements.
just for the record though; i really don't care, i'm just playing devils advocate here. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2681
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Posted - 2013.02.13 07:43:00 -
[33] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:RubyPorto wrote:That's not a significant "choice" given that there's no reason to carry spares of something you only need to replace once every 8+hrs.
A real choice would be "which mining crystals should I bring with me to mine this belt" or "should I assign different Hulks in my fleet to specialize on different ores in the belt."
... well hey... that's not really a choice. that's "i need crystals, i shall bring them. then i will need to go out of my way to change them because if i'm mining anywhere that's not high sec i won't have enough room for enough types of crystal" there's really no choice in the matter, you either have the sufficient crystals or you don't due to the low cargo limit not because of what you put in said cargo bay. you're not making the choice, the choice is thrust upon you. not to mention unless you recycle all part-damaged crystals at the end of the day there's always a need for replacements. just for the record though; i really don't care, i'm just playing devils advocate here.
If you're not running with a fleet (which implies hauling support) why use a Hulk?
Even if you recycle them, they last ~8 hours. Your hauling support should show up more than once every 8 hours.
Outside of HS, you have massive Roids which means that if you're solo, you'll have to head back to empty your ore bay long before you'll need to change asteroids. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Kate stark
109
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Posted - 2013.02.13 16:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Kate stark wrote:RubyPorto wrote:That's not a significant "choice" given that there's no reason to carry spares of something you only need to replace once every 8+hrs.
A real choice would be "which mining crystals should I bring with me to mine this belt" or "should I assign different Hulks in my fleet to specialize on different ores in the belt."
... well hey... that's not really a choice. that's "i need crystals, i shall bring them. then i will need to go out of my way to change them because if i'm mining anywhere that's not high sec i won't have enough room for enough types of crystal" there's really no choice in the matter, you either have the sufficient crystals or you don't due to the low cargo limit not because of what you put in said cargo bay. you're not making the choice, the choice is thrust upon you. not to mention unless you recycle all part-damaged crystals at the end of the day there's always a need for replacements. just for the record though; i really don't care, i'm just playing devils advocate here. If you're not running with a fleet (which implies hauling support) why use a Hulk? Even if you recycle them, they last ~8 hours. Your hauling support should show up more than once every 8 hours. Outside of HS, you have massive Roids which means that if you're solo, you'll have to head back to empty your ore bay long before you'll need to change asteroids.
but outside of high sec jetcan mining is perfectly viable.
truth be told i find the hulk fine but i honestly see no reason why more space for crystals would be such an issue. they don't have a problem with the skiff or mackinaw carrying a full compliment of crystals so why would it be such an issue for the hulk? or do they think tedium makes mining more interesting? |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2698
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Posted - 2013.02.13 16:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:but outside of high sec jetcan mining is perfectly viable.
truth be told i find the hulk fine but i honestly see no reason why more space for crystals would be such an issue. they don't have a problem with the skiff or mackinaw carrying a full compliment of crystals so why would it be such an issue for the hulk? or do they think tedium makes mining more interesting?
And the Jetcans will evaporate long before your crystals break (or are ready for recycling). This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Kate stark
109
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Posted - 2013.02.13 18:06:00 -
[36] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Kate stark wrote:but outside of high sec jetcan mining is perfectly viable.
truth be told i find the hulk fine but i honestly see no reason why more space for crystals would be such an issue. they don't have a problem with the skiff or mackinaw carrying a full compliment of crystals so why would it be such an issue for the hulk? or do they think tedium makes mining more interesting? And the Jetcans will evaporate long before your crystals break (or are ready for recycling).
no they won't, you just cycle your jetcans. every 3 mins you can produce a jetcan, that's 20 cans per hour, with a duration of 2 hours, that's up to 40 jetcans you can have active at once. that's roughly a full freighter load (40 jetcans is roughly 1.1m m3) of ore you can mine before jetcans start evaporating.
anyway that really has nothing to do with the fact that giving more cargo space would/wouldn't break the game. as i said, there's really no reason not to give the hulk more cargo space, it just removes tedium from the game. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2708
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Posted - 2013.02.14 04:36:00 -
[37] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:anyway that really has nothing to do with the fact that giving more cargo space would/wouldn't break the game. as i said, there's really no reason not to give the hulk more cargo space, it just removes tedium from the game.
"It wouldn't break the game." What a great reason for buffing things.
If anchoring a GSC, using some of your infinitely recycled jetcan space, or having your fleetmate in the hauler provide you with the crystals you need is too much effort for you, the Hulk is not for you.
By the way. 1.1m m3 is about 12hrs of a Hulk mining solo. That will break around 1.5 sets of crystals. You have space for more than 1.5 sets of crystals, and hidden belts have more than enough Ore to allow you to plan ahead and never have to return for more crystals in those 12 hours (at the end of which, I'll remind you, you're returning to grab your Freighter). This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
323
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Posted - 2013.02.14 08:31:00 -
[38] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Kate stark wrote:but outside of high sec jetcan mining is perfectly viable.
truth be told i find the hulk fine but i honestly see no reason why more space for crystals would be such an issue. they don't have a problem with the skiff or mackinaw carrying a full compliment of crystals so why would it be such an issue for the hulk? or do they think tedium makes mining more interesting? And the Jetcans will evaporate long before your crystals break (or are ready for recycling). no they won't, you just cycle your jetcans. every 3 mins you can produce a jetcan, that's 20 cans per hour, with a duration of 2 hours, that's up to 40 jetcans you can have active at once. that's roughly a full freighter load (40 jetcans is roughly 1.1m m3) of ore you can mine before jetcans start evaporating. anyway that really has nothing to do with the fact that giving more cargo space would/wouldn't break the game. as i said, there's really no reason not to give the hulk more cargo space, it just removes tedium from the game.
It's intended to be a fleet miner. No need to give it more self sustainability. |
Kate stark
116
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Posted - 2013.02.14 10:44:00 -
[39] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Kate stark wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Kate stark wrote:but outside of high sec jetcan mining is perfectly viable.
truth be told i find the hulk fine but i honestly see no reason why more space for crystals would be such an issue. they don't have a problem with the skiff or mackinaw carrying a full compliment of crystals so why would it be such an issue for the hulk? or do they think tedium makes mining more interesting? And the Jetcans will evaporate long before your crystals break (or are ready for recycling). no they won't, you just cycle your jetcans. every 3 mins you can produce a jetcan, that's 20 cans per hour, with a duration of 2 hours, that's up to 40 jetcans you can have active at once. that's roughly a full freighter load (40 jetcans is roughly 1.1m m3) of ore you can mine before jetcans start evaporating. anyway that really has nothing to do with the fact that giving more cargo space would/wouldn't break the game. as i said, there's really no reason not to give the hulk more cargo space, it just removes tedium from the game. It's intended to be a fleet miner. No need to give it more self sustainability.
it's not adding self sustainability, it's just removing tedium. |
Akturous
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
80
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Posted - 2013.02.14 11:45:00 -
[40] - Quote
I can't believe you guys going on about how "hulk is a fleet ship blah blah" ffs get a grip, that's why it has a tiny ore hold. It should have enough cargo to fit all the crystals it's doing to need, so more people fly them so I can gank them and harvest their precious intact armour plates. mmmmmmm Vote Item Heck One for CSM8 |
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Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
465
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Posted - 2013.02.14 14:24:00 -
[41] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Kate stark wrote:but outside of high sec jetcan mining is perfectly viable.
truth be told i find the hulk fine but i honestly see no reason why more space for crystals would be such an issue. they don't have a problem with the skiff or mackinaw carrying a full compliment of crystals so why would it be such an issue for the hulk? or do they think tedium makes mining more interesting? And the Jetcans will evaporate long before your crystals break (or are ready for recycling). Well considering since the new freight containers were introduced there is no need to jetcan mine with actual jetcans. A freight container, while no more secure than a jetcan holds far more, up to 250,000m3, and will never despawn. At least the freight cans I have had sitting at a safe spot since the patch a few months ago have not popped yet.
True you need to drop them off in the belt with another ship, but the enormous freight container is only 2500m3 packaged. And can be jettisoned from a packaged state. I have tested this. So you only need a ship with 2500m3 cargo to drop off a can that will hold 250,000m3. It will not pop after 1-2 hours like a jetcan. and you will spend some time to fill it. Although you then need a freighter to scoop it, any hauler can pick up ore from the can.
These freight containers can be strategically placed through the belt just like GSC's. Only down side is they can not be locked, so are no more secure than jetcans. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3461
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 15:13:00 -
[42] - Quote
I found the switch to a tiny Cargohold for Hulks annoying as well, but I can live with it.
There just seem to be so many last minute arbitrary changes in the game anymore, this one, the sudden scannability of the Orca Fleet Hold, I'm not really sure anymore just how much thought is seriously put into these things by CCP. Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.-á-á-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2708
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Posted - 2013.02.14 20:14:00 -
[43] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote: Well considering since the new freight containers were introduced there is no need to jetcan mine with actual jetcans. A freight container, while no more secure than a jetcan holds far more, up to 250,000m3, and will never despawn. At least the freight cans I have had sitting at a safe spot since the patch a few months ago have not popped yet.
True you need to drop them off in the belt with another ship, but the enormous freight container is only 2500m3 packaged. And can be jettisoned from a packaged state. I have tested this. So you only need a ship with 2500m3 cargo to drop off a can that will hold 250,000m3. It will not pop after 1-2 hours like a jetcan. and you will spend some time to fill it. Although you then need a freighter to scoop it, any hauler can pick up ore from the can.
These freight containers can be strategically placed through the belt just like GSC's. Only down side is they can not be locked, so are no more secure than jetcans.
So fill them with crystals when you drop them off. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Kate stark
127
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Posted - 2013.02.14 20:22:00 -
[44] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Bugsy VanHalen wrote: Well considering since the new freight containers were introduced there is no need to jetcan mine with actual jetcans. A freight container, while no more secure than a jetcan holds far more, up to 250,000m3, and will never despawn. At least the freight cans I have had sitting at a safe spot since the patch a few months ago have not popped yet.
True you need to drop them off in the belt with another ship, but the enormous freight container is only 2500m3 packaged. And can be jettisoned from a packaged state. I have tested this. So you only need a ship with 2500m3 cargo to drop off a can that will hold 250,000m3. It will not pop after 1-2 hours like a jetcan. and you will spend some time to fill it. Although you then need a freighter to scoop it, any hauler can pick up ore from the can.
These freight containers can be strategically placed through the belt just like GSC's. Only down side is they can not be locked, so are no more secure than jetcans.
So fill them with crystals when you drop them off.
again, all it does is add tedium. there's really no reason to add tedium to the game. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2708
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Posted - 2013.02.14 20:56:00 -
[45] - Quote
Kate stark wrote: again, all it does is add tedium. there's really no reason to add tedium to the game.
The only thing adding tedium is your choice to us an inappropriate tool for the job and refusing to adapt that tool (cargo expand your Hulk and you'll have plenty of space). This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Kate stark
130
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 20:58:00 -
[46] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Kate stark wrote: again, all it does is add tedium. there's really no reason to add tedium to the game.
The only thing adding tedium is your choice to us an inappropriate tool for the job and refusing to adapt that tool (cargo expand your Hulk and you'll have plenty of space).
but using a hulk in a fleet IS the appropriate tool for the job. having to move crystals about is just tedious and adds nothing to the game.
i don't massively care, but a fact is still a fact. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3461
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 20:59:00 -
[47] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Kate stark wrote: again, all it does is add tedium. there's really no reason to add tedium to the game.
The only thing adding tedium is your choice to us an inappropriate tool for the job and refusing to adapt that tool (cargo expand your Hulk and you'll have plenty of space). but using a hulk in a fleet IS the appropriate tool for the job. having to move crystals about is just tedious and adds nothing to the game. i don't massively care, but a fact is still a fact.
Do not pay him any mind. Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.-á-á-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
Kate stark
130
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Posted - 2013.02.14 21:04:00 -
[48] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Kate stark wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Kate stark wrote: again, all it does is add tedium. there's really no reason to add tedium to the game.
The only thing adding tedium is your choice to us an inappropriate tool for the job and refusing to adapt that tool (cargo expand your Hulk and you'll have plenty of space). but using a hulk in a fleet IS the appropriate tool for the job. having to move crystals about is just tedious and adds nothing to the game. i don't massively care, but a fact is still a fact. Do not pay him any mind.
*shrug* he's right, there are ways around the issue. however the issue doesn't bring anything to the game but tedium, tedium isn't fun, isn't useful, and when games are designed for fun introducing tedium for no reason seems silly. even more so when it's just 1 ship that seems to have an issue. |
Knorkor
Spartan Advanced Mining Infinite Aggression
15
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Posted - 2013.02.15 11:01:00 -
[49] - Quote
Kate stark wrote: *shrug* he's right, there are ways around the issue. however the issue doesn't bring anything to the game but tedium, tedium isn't fun, isn't useful, and when games are designed for fun introducing tedium for no reason seems silly. even more so when it's just 1 ship that seems to have an issue.
Exactly. Removing the tedium. That is all. It does not make the game easier nor change the overall capability of the Hulk. |
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