Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Captain Black
|
Posted - 2003.07.16 12:48:00 -
[1]
Question:
Do you think reverse engineering should have a chance of damaging or destroying the original piece of equipment?
(I vote yes) CB
|
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2003.07.16 12:54:00 -
[2]
Not if it takes 6 days to reverse engineer something, no. Actually really, it should destroy it, I assume you'd be taking the thing apart to see how it ticks. So the original item should probably be consumed.
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 16/07/2003 12:54:52 ------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Muacha
|
Posted - 2003.07.16 13:05:00 -
[3]
Yes absolutely. If the attempt is unsuccessful, then I think the item should be destroyed. If it is successful, then it should not. This just seems to make sense to me.
|
Captain Black
|
Posted - 2003.07.16 13:08:00 -
[4]
Ya, I only brought it up because wouldn't it suck if everyone had the best pirate loot in the game a week after R.E. was put in...? That's what I'm getting at.
Thanks, CB
|
Jarjar
|
Posted - 2003.07.16 13:28:00 -
[5]
Yes. I like the idea of a 10% per level chance to successfully reverse engineer an item, otherwise it will get destroyed. The skill should be a pretty high rank as well, 5-6 maybe. Then you'd have to be crazy to get it to level 5, aka. 50% chance. |
Darknight
|
Posted - 2003.07.16 13:29:00 -
[6]
Yea if u fail a reverse engineer u can't possibly put the item back together yourself so it would be destroyed either dissapear or maybe u would get some peieces of it left over ect...but if u make a successfull reverse then the item should be kept because yet again now u know how to put it back together.
|
The Wretch
|
Posted - 2003.07.16 13:50:00 -
[7]
Absolutely not. I am under the impression you need prototype equipment to reverse engineer. So when is the last time you have seen anything prototype drop after last patch? The stuff is simply to rare atm.
As an example, I used to get 1 prototype guass gun every 2-3 hours of pirate hunting. I have not seen a single on drop since the patch. This covers hunting all the way up to the top known caldari npc pirates.
The only thing I have seen drop that is prototype lately is a cargo scanner - bleh.
Now maybe if you don't need prototype equipment then this is not such a bad idea.
The Wretch Cyberdyne Systems CEO
|
Robomonkey
|
Posted - 2003.07.16 15:35:00 -
[8]
So can any item in the game be reverse engineered???
I personally think the item should be destroyed, success or faliure, maybe get left with some damaged items in your hanger to refine.
That'd be silly, for example a Thorax BP costs 76mil, with level 4 RE skill 40% chance, in theory you only have to try 3 times to get a BP, and as Thoraxes are costing under 6mil at the moment thats only 18mil for an original worth 76mil.
|
Kiran
|
Posted - 2003.07.16 17:32:00 -
[9]
what skills are needed for reverse engineering ? Kiran-" Damn where did that pirate go?" Martican (co-pilot)-" He went behind those two big pink asteroids." Kiran-"Will you stop taking the **** out of my fury dice?" |
Athren Soulsteal
|
Posted - 2003.07.16 18:22:00 -
[10]
Reverse isin the science tree so you will need science and reverse.
As to the destruction of the items. It is already setup with percent chance of the item being destroyed in the process.
That being said, I have done reverse enginering in real life and there is very seldom a time when the product/item will get destroyed in the process. The engineers and draftspeople go to great lengths to insure nothing happens to the original. EVE is in the future so I would assume that they would have better tools that we use now so the possibility of damaging an item much less destroying it would be very slight.
Then again one thing that has confused me about the science skills/industry setup. It's as if the citizens of EVE have lost most of their skills.
For example, copying blue prints. Do the citizens of eve not us CADD/CAM? I can copy a complete architectual set of BPs (and they are no longer blue or prints anymore), all 120+ pages in 5 min. Heck even when we used to use blueline machine it did not take more than a few hours to copy a set.
For those of you that are not famular with modern engineering techniques, use copying any data file. (how long does it take to copy a music CD, same thing).
So, if you base revers on skill then it should go lvl1 80% chance of being destroyed, lvl2 60%, lvl3 40% lvl4 20% and lvl5 10% (just because nothing 100% foolproof)
|
|
Ezri
|
Posted - 2003.07.16 18:43:00 -
[11]
It may be simple nowadays, but in the EVE universe blueprints would be so much more complex, perhaps needing super computers to even process them.
Ez.
|
Muacha
|
Posted - 2003.07.16 21:07:00 -
[12]
THE WRETCH: "Absolutely not. I am under the impression you need prototype equipment to reverse engineer. So when is the last time you have seen anything prototype drop after last patch? The stuff is simply to rare atm."
Sorry, but I just don't get this logic.....rare items should be much more difficult to RE then other more common items. However, as Robomonkey pointed out, with RE you could possibly acquire a 76mil isk original BP for much less money. I say add the risk that the item may be destroyed if unsuccessful. This will certainly make you think before you RE that rare item and there is always the chance that it will succeed.
ATHREN SOULSTEAL: "That being said, I have done reverse enginering in real life and there is very seldom a time when the product/item will get destroyed in the process. The engineers and draftspeople go to great lengths to insure nothing happens to the original. EVE is in the future so I would assume that they would have better tools that we use now so the possibility of damaging an item much less destroying it would be very slight."
Athren, I agree but don't you think there should be some risk of loss for the items you attempt to RE?
BTW, has anybody acquired this skill yet? If so, have you reversed engineered anything yet?
|
Tychus
|
Posted - 2003.07.16 21:38:00 -
[13]
Please, dear god do not bring back ANYTHING like the system from earth and beyond. I lost track of how many millions of credits worth of shields i destroyed trying to learn to build them. Lets see, a Progen lvl 9 shield..... I have max build shield skill, I'm lvl 147, i have all the right skills for everything else..... I have my fingers crossed, my "lucky" .45 acp round, and a live rabbit! If it fails, the rabbit was obviously "unlucky", and i get to keep his foot! The stars are in proper alignment, I just got laid, and my roomie paid his half of the bills (On Time!)! I approach the research stand..... Here goes!!!!! *POOF!* Gone- no shield, no bp equivalent, no rhyme, no reason, no math. PLEASE!!!If you reverse engineer an item item, it vanishes, and you get the bp! If not, no harm/no foul to the item. Please try again- insert 1M Isk. A lot of you must have no idea how UN-fun it is to spend millions on something to watch it bacome trash..again.....again.....again.....again....Aaaaarrggg! the pain..........help...me.... Whatever the devs chose, please don't put the builder types through misery like that. It's like taking the unhappy hoover to your "fun" pile, sucking it all away, and getting kicked in the nuts for your trouble. As for the realistic destruction of items when reverse engineering: If you want "realistic", why does my ship stop moving when i turn of the throttle? Because traveling at 300,000 km/sec. in real space would suck, It would take days to decell enough to turn.....a ...little (must overcome inertia)....Un-fun! Sucktatude! Lame! No destruction when reverse engineer! cya Tychus
|
Zeknichov
|
Posted - 2003.07.16 21:41:00 -
[14]
Whether it suceeds or not it should be destroyed.
|
Athren Soulsteal
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 02:28:00 -
[15]
[It may be simple nowadays, but in the EVE universe blueprints would be so much more complex, perhaps needing super computers to even process them.]
Ok, so the BPs are digital data. How long it take to transfer data?
There should be a chance for the items to be destroyed based on skill, but not an absolute destruction.
Any of you ever see a stereolathography machine? Put in the part, a 3d model is generated and the CNC drives a 3D lathe that mills the prototype as well as the die. (and this was back in 96) Oh the original is undamaged and some of the items were very complex. (used in the space shuttle)
I find it hard to beleave that in EVE they would not even have this at least this lvl of tech. Item destruction could only be explained as opperator error which would be based on skill.
|
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 03:37:00 -
[16]
When reverse engineering an item, the item should ALWAYS be destroyed on failure. Success should be the only way to keep the item intact.
With the current rareness of good drops, people will have to weigh the risk of losing one of their prize possessions for a failure and that will help keep the market from getting flooded.
And the chance of success, with skills included, shouldn't go higher than 60% or so I'd recommend.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Robomonkey
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 08:46:00 -
[17]
I think the Item should always be destroyed, and the maximium chance of success should only be 10-20% with skills.
Otherwise it will kill the market even more than it is already, basic supply and demand are the drivers of any market, as soon as you can Reverse Engineer items supply will far outstrip demand.
Imagine when we can copy skills as well, a noob will be able to start with nothing, within the time it takes to train frigate 4 he will be able to buy a cruiser skill for something stupid like 40k and have a Thorax decked out with Gauss\Compressed coil guns before the cruiser skill is even trained.
As someone who has invested a lot of isk in original BP's I'd really cheesed off to find that they are all worthless.
Perhaps RE could produce a substandard BP?, where only a certian number items can be produced from it (less items than from a copy of an original). Or make RE harder depending on the Tech level of the item, so a tech level 5 item would be virtually impossible to RE.
I don't know, but I do think the items that already have original BP's should not be reverse engineerable (if thats a word???)
|
Lola
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 11:27:00 -
[18]
From a strictly game balance standpoint the item had better always get destroyed. If you got a blueprint from it it wouldn't really matter that you trashed the original item. If you didn't reverse engineer it how did you figure out how to put it back together? Further more what's to keep you from trying to RE again?If the RE skill gives a 10% chance per level to RE then that's a 50% chance to have a BP of whatever item you're trying to RE. We can assume everyone is either going to have or know someone who has this skill if it goes on the market. So that means for every 2 uber loot items you find or buy you should be able to get a BP off it. This seems like it could have dire effects on the economy. ----------------------------------------- Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Lola
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 11:33:00 -
[19]
Athren Soulsteal, think more along the lines of reverse engineering a CPU than a hand gun. You can almost reverse engineer a gun by just looking at it. You're pretty much going to destroy a computer chip by taking it apart. If you can figure out how to mass produce them then putting the original back together isn't a big worry as it would take more time to reassemble then it would to just start the assembly line. ----------------------------------------- Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Temerlyn
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 11:34:00 -
[20]
You have a decent sized corp and every true member has an alt science guy it wouldnt take long to get many bp's out of items.
So it should need science or research level 5 ot learn first to slow down alt scientists. This would allow for more specialist science type characters. The skill also be a high level skill like sugested and success be quite low. Also time taken to reverse engineer be long.
But maybe what should be also implemented is a cost to research idea. So if your gunna reverse enginner you can pump money into it to increase the success rate.
Food for thought
|
|
Spoon
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 11:44:00 -
[21]
Reverse Engineering will Destroy the item regardless of you actually succeding. Its already in the game, live with it.
|
Lola
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 11:53:00 -
[22]
Spoon, RE skill is in? Seems there would have been more fanfare. ----------------------------------------- Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Saladin
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 11:55:00 -
[23]
I liked Athren's real life anology, and being an engineer myself I understand where he is coming from.
Copying prints or any data for that matter in real life would not take that kind of time. But on the flipside I think EVE makes up with it in short production times. Is there any company right that exists right now that can build a battleship in 7 hours? or a cruiser in 3-4 hours? Heck I don't think they can do that in Star Trek even.
Games do have to have certain balancing effects, and they might not always be realistic :) |
Ashira Macinari
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 13:11:00 -
[24]
The RE skill is not in game, but the ability to reverse engineer is. Anyone can do reverse engineering as long as they can use a research slot. What I have read about the RE skill suggests that it only increases the chance of success, it don't mean you must have the skill to RE.
No one has really got RE to work yet, and no one, that i've seen, knows if it works on any item or just 'prototype' items. Each attempt make so far has resulted in a message along these lines: "you have 0% chance of a successful RE".
Again, no one seems to know what is involved to get a successful RE, and if they do, they are keeping it to themselves, as they rightly should.
|
Lola
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 22:38:00 -
[25]
I just found this in the text from the Dev QA session on IGN.com
4.) Is reverse engineering in the game yet?
Hrafnkell S. Ėskarsson: "No, it will be in shortly (read: month or two)." ----------------------------------------- Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Chandi
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 23:46:00 -
[26]
Ok IMO RE should not have some incredibly small chance of success. The Blueprint that results shouldn't produce and item that's quite as good as the original, but then you should be able to "Research" items to improve them.
What some of you want is to be able to be the only person/Corp who can build 250mm Proto Gauss Rails or something... And that's just silly when you think about it. What needs to happen is to have maybe a series of research skills that will allow one to improve things in different ways. Then you would be able to build an item that is Unique! That's what needs to happen to promote the whole Brand Name idea. Not just "we have an HMB print" and you don't Naa Naa~! ;p
Come to think of it. If we have some research skills then we can improve the blueprints we already have purchased. Then we might not need to reverse engineer many of the other items. As they are now, aka. "tech level 1", they are crap but that doesn't mean they will allways be that way. Some of you also seem to think that the rare pirate drops are all a higher tech level. Well some of the items don't specify what "tech level" they are, but some of the most valuable one's like Heavy Modulated Beams ARE only Tech Level ONE!!
That is why I say we NEED more research skills. If we had those then we could improve what we have, and build with diversity, not just RE some rare loot and make money in the Short Term.
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |