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Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
239
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Posted - 2013.02.11 14:28:00 -
[31] - Quote
I do not know why the OP is whining here. In the past low-sec was waste land and everyone was whining that there is no one to kill. Now with current FW mechanics there are millions of targets to go for. What do you want more?
By the way the only solution to cloaki alt hordes is to enable to warp in cloaked into a plex again, as it was in the past. But the other solution have been mentioned before which are basically patience or tricking the alt. |
Halete
Alexylva Paradox
636
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 14:38:00 -
[32] - Quote
Additionally, you can't actively capture whilst cloaked, and being locked interrupts the cloak. Farmers historically don't tend to be particularly attentive or fast on the draw, along with the fact that they prefer to keep cheap rather than fit a tank you could probably do some work with a SeBo Arty Thrasher if padding kills is your goal. Trading chains for shackles, I am free. |
Garan Nardieu
Moira. Villore Accords
1
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Posted - 2013.02.11 15:05:00 -
[33] - Quote
Hidden Snake wrote: well it is funny that people who wanted farmhorde are now bitching about farmhorde because the beast turned on them with the system capture. Oh yeah, we told you!
So, who exactly wanted farmhorde in the first place? I can't really remember anyone from GalMil being in favour of it.
On Gal/Cal front farming system has always favoured Caldari (remember the imbalanced NPCs even after removal of ECM), and they have always been more active at it, presumably because of more lucrative LP store items. At the same time, warzone control was held in balance by minmatar farmers who had nowhere to plex due to the state of Min/Amarr front. Gallente were never really big on plexing - that's a fact which does not work well for us, but still it is a fact.
What we're seeing atm is a massive influx of farmers and bored (ex.?) nullsecers into CalMil which obviously tips the sov scales in favour of Caldari and coupled with Minmatar alts going back to their space or switching sides only makes things worse for GalMil. However, while being at lower tiers is annoying, I really don't see the warzone shift as anything tragic per se. What is bad are the reason which make the zone shift, but that's been discussed into more then enough length and there's no need to repeat everything that's been said. While OP's request is fairly unreasonable (cloaking in plexes has more uses than protecting farmers), I understand his frustration with the lack of positive changes.
Unfortunately, CCP have listened to player base regarding the shortcomings of plexing and then decided to throw all the good ideas (several single npc spawns with final rat being fairly tough one in accordance with plex size, timer reseting/counting back on warping out/cloaking, cyno jammers, sov industry improvements etc.) out of the window, replacing them with Farmville 2.0 in form of that laughable NPC you have to kill atm. Obviously this system is frustrating for anyone who doesnGÇÖt think farming should be a selling point for FW while at the same time it provides farmer-trollers material for their forum 'contributions' to constructive dialogue. |
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
430
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Posted - 2013.02.11 15:15:00 -
[34] - Quote
Wait.. I thought plexing was about PVP and farmers were just a small non issue that didn't affect the war zone control.. I understand I haven't logged in lately, but can anyone tell me when this drastic change happened?
It was only a month or two ago the Gals were claiming noob farming alts with stabs & cloaks were not an issue and they got all the PVP they wanted.. Did something change? Did CCP introduce a new patch? or was it really always an issue only noticed when you start losing and the farmers jump ship to the other side?
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Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
275
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 15:20:00 -
[35] - Quote
And 1 person inability to adapt to a given situation still doesn't make it an issue. Nice try tho.
Mutnin wrote:Wait.. I thought plexing was about PVP and farmers were just a small non issue that didn't affect the war zone control.. I understand I haven't logged in lately, but can anyone tell me when this drastic change happened? It was only a month or two ago the Gals were claiming noob farming alts with stabs & cloaks were not an issue..
QCATs is recruiting https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=146180 |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
111
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Posted - 2013.02.11 15:32:00 -
[36] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:Wait.. I thought plexing was about PVP and farmers were just a small non issue that didn't affect the war zone control.. I understand I haven't logged in lately, but can anyone tell me when this drastic change happened? It was only a month or two ago the Gals were claiming noob farming alts with stabs & cloaks were not an issue and they got all the PVP they wanted.. Did something change? Did CCP introduce a new patch? or was it really always an issue only noticed when you start losing and the farmers jump ship to the other side?
Falling for obv troll post is obvious GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1044
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 15:41:00 -
[37] - Quote
Sorry, too busy getting arse handed to me in Heyd to worry about afk cloaky plexers in the hinterlands. |
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
430
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 15:41:00 -
[38] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:And 1 person's inability to adapt to a given situation still doesn't make it an issue. Nice try tho.
Oh, my bad I thought I was reading complaints from more than just the OP in this topic. Anyway have fun chasing around all those stabbed & cloaky plexers. It's sure fun and awesome PVP. |
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
277
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Posted - 2013.02.11 16:04:00 -
[39] - Quote
It is incredibly fun and awesome. Have fun staying docked up and bitter
Mutnin wrote: Oh, my bad I thought I was reading complaints from more than just the OP in this topic. Anyway have fun chasing around all those stabbed & cloaky plexers. It's sure fun and awesome PVP.
QCATs is recruiting https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=146180 |
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
277
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 16:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
WTH , how come every time I go to heyd there are 40 gals there and 2 squids hiding in a pos?
X Gallentius wrote:Sorry, too busy getting arse handed to me in Heyd to worry about afk cloaky plexers in the hinterlands.
QCATs is recruiting https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=146180 |
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
828
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 17:02:00 -
[41] - Quote
Garan Nardieu wrote:Hidden Snake wrote: well it is funny that people who wanted farmhorde are now bitching about farmhorde because the beast turned on them with the system capture. Oh yeah, we told you!
So, who exactly wanted farmhorde in the first place? I can't really remember anyone from GalMil being in favour of it. .
Dread Operative, XG, Crosi Wesdo, I could go on just read the thread about "gallente got thier medal." See all of them try to brush off the fact that 4xs as many plexes are captured per kill as there was in 2009. The denial is pretty much laughable.
All of them are arguing what a great system it is, and trying to argue against measures (such as notifications, end to station lock outs, or at least end lp for defensive plexing) which would make the game involve pvp. No they want to have their alts sit in their home system's plexes where the enemy doesn't even know they are there and can't even dock, and then beat their chest on the forums, about how "dominant" they are.
Of course they won't actually say they want farmville. But they fill every thread that contains ideas to end the farmville with their bad arguments to reject those changes.
They are and always were quite happy with the farmville fw sov is now. Just read the thread. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
356
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 17:38:00 -
[42] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:Wait.. I thought plexing was about PVP and farmers were just a small non issue that didn't affect the war zone control.. I understand I haven't logged in lately, but can anyone tell me when this drastic change happened? It was only a month or two ago the Gals were claiming noob farming alts with stabs & cloaks were not an issue and they got all the PVP they wanted.. Did something change? Did CCP introduce a new patch? or was it really always an issue only noticed when you start losing and the farmers jump ship to the other side?
I'm still getting tons of pvp and am quite a happy camper, even though the Caldari are back on top when it comes to the sov war. Current system is awesome, I'd still like to see the timer rollback implemented to make it harder for people to plex who have no intent to pvp. Would be happy if station lockouts went away, but I am also willing to see their benefits (goodbye station games, gives people an incentive to fight for at least their home systems).
So no, nothing changed. Any other questions? |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
208
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Posted - 2013.02.11 18:12:00 -
[43] - Quote
I'm still new to the whole FW thing, but surely if enemies are constantly cloaking/running away whenever you move into a Plex, your own forces will come out ahead? Eventually they'll have to either fight or abandon the whole business for something safer. |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
828
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 18:16:00 -
[44] - Quote
Takseen wrote:I'm still new to the whole FW thing, but surely if enemies are constantly cloaking/running away whenever you move into a Plex, your own forces will come out ahead? Eventually they'll have to either fight or abandon the whole business for something safer.
Thats not the way it works. Farmers find a quiet system and farm away. They can go for hours before anyone who really cares knows they are are there. Then when someone, who does care, finds them they can run and hide in another system. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
209
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 19:16:00 -
[45] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Takseen wrote:I'm still new to the whole FW thing, but surely if enemies are constantly cloaking/running away whenever you move into a Plex, your own forces will come out ahead? Eventually they'll have to either fight or abandon the whole business for something safer. Thats not the way it works. Farmers find a quiet system and farm away. They can go for hours before anyone who really cares knows they are are there. Then when someone, who does care, finds them they can run and hide in another system.
So its a manpower problem of not being able to police your own space?
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Mutnin
SQUIDS.
430
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Posted - 2013.02.11 19:18:00 -
[46] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:WTH , how come every time I go to heyd there are 40 gals there and 2 squids hiding in a pos? X Gallentius wrote:Sorry, too busy getting arse handed to me in Heyd to worry about afk cloaky plexers in the hinterlands.
I honestly can't remember if I'm docked or floating somewhere in space.. However I'm busy playing Stock Trader Online. Much better PVP with pretty decent Risk vs Reward. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
357
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 19:28:00 -
[47] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Cearain wrote:Takseen wrote:I'm still new to the whole FW thing, but surely if enemies are constantly cloaking/running away whenever you move into a Plex, your own forces will come out ahead? Eventually they'll have to either fight or abandon the whole business for something safer. Thats not the way it works. Farmers find a quiet system and farm away. They can go for hours before anyone who really cares knows they are are there. Then when someone, who does care, finds them they can run and hide in another system. So its a manpower problem of not being able to police your own space?
This is largely it, however, there is also the current issue of until you hit full saturation, the farmer is more efficient at plexing than the pvper. Consider this scenario:
A farmer is in a plex, happily orbiting away with stabs or just watching the scanner closely. A pvper comes into the plex and the farmer instantly warps away - if the pvper chases the farmer, the farmer loses no progress on the plex and can keep running to different plexes until the pvper gets bored. If the pvper runs the button, he is just as effective as the farmer.
The solution suggested, which is in CCPs backlog, is that if no-one is running a button, it counts down to its starting state. This way, if a farmer is chased out of a plex, and a pvper keeps chasing a farmers, the farmers work is undone while the pvper is trying to get a kill. This makes a pvper who is willing to fight for a plex, and chase farmers out of plexes have more influence of the sov war than a stabbed farmer. |
Garan Nardieu
Moira. Villore Accords
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 19:29:00 -
[48] - Quote
Cearain wrote: Dread Operative, XG, Crosi Wesdo, I could go on just read the thread about "gallente got thier medal." See all of them try to brush off the fact that 4xs as many plexes are captured per kill as there was in 2009. The denial is pretty much laughable.
Well ye, Crosi said that system is pretty much good but "timers rolling back to zero, perhaps is the best hindrance to farming.". I red up to page 5 and then stopped due to all the bickering there but couldn't find DO and XG stating that the plexing system as it is is particulary good, their discussion was mostly about other stuff anyway (DO did post a part of convo he had with a stabbed guy and it wasn't too positive about it v0v). As for GalMil medal, all whining and tinfoil hattery aside, it was in the end a PvP victory since staging systems were definitely not taken by PvE-ers.
Regarding the sov system - plexing for sov isn't so much of a problem, nor are station lockouts. However, farming is. Had CCP implemented the changes which were initially discussed I bet that we'd see a lot less of farming since medium/large plexes would require either a well tanked cruiser or a small fleet of ships to take out the last rat and I honestly can't see too many people putting that much effort into training fw alt. If we had resetting timers and multiple spawns, situation where a guy kills rat and then places his 2 day old alt on button would become impossible. Oh and while your idea of active plexing indicators does sound interesting I don't think its something that would change the what's going on atm as much as you think it would.
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Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
209
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Posted - 2013.02.11 20:52:00 -
[49] - Quote
chatgris wrote:
The solution suggested, which is in CCPs backlog, is that if no-one is running a button, it counts down to its starting state. This way, if a farmer is chased out of a plex, and a pvper keeps chasing a farmers, the farmers work is undone while the pvper is trying to get a kill. This makes a pvper who is willing to fight for a plex, and chase farmers out of plexes have more influence of the sov war than a stabbed farmer.
Seems sensible. Ticking back towards a default state when there's no one there is quite often used in proximity based capture systems for just this reason.
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Mutnin
SQUIDS.
430
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 00:27:00 -
[50] - Quote
chatgris wrote:
The solution suggested, which is in CCPs backlog, is that if no-one is running a button, it counts down to its starting state. This way, if a farmer is chased out of a plex, and a pvper keeps chasing a farmers, the farmers work is undone while the pvper is trying to get a kill. This makes a pvper who is willing to fight for a plex, and chase farmers out of plexes have more influence of the sov war than a stabbed farmer.
Fear not.. I'm sure now that Caldari is getting a bit better foothold on the Sov War, CCP will surely rush out a patch to help you guys out with that roll back timer thing.
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
116
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Posted - 2013.02.12 00:48:00 -
[51] - Quote
AND in waids mutnin with more tinfoil hattery when the conversation gets back on topic and starts reading ok again.
herea my 2 isks worth
1. I for one love station lockouts it gives meaning and does promote pvp for "staging/home" systems and gives concequences for not defending them otherwise the warzone would just roll one way or the other with noone giving a fk. So for me these are a keeper.
2. Rollback timers would be awsome im all for these, for the obvious reasons stated above.
3. The plexes should spawn a few more rats yes but not to the degree were they cant be solod this would have an adverse effect on the genuine noob trying to make his way in fw and even feeling like hes contributing. If u need a small fleet thats bad as noobs dont get into many fleets 90% are called spais from the first day they join. (weve all been there)
4. I would also like to see the i hub in system being able to be upgraded to having more Hp this way important systems can be kinda reinforced at the cost of lp which would be a sink and also give the defenders more chance of forming a defensive fleet and calling other corps / alliances in that dont live close by and hey if there willing to sink lps in they really want that system right? GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Dread Operative
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
150
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 01:45:00 -
[52] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Garan Nardieu wrote:Hidden Snake wrote: well it is funny that people who wanted farmhorde are now bitching about farmhorde because the beast turned on them with the system capture. Oh yeah, we told you!
So, who exactly wanted farmhorde in the first place? I can't really remember anyone from GalMil being in favour of it. . Dread Operative, XG, Crosi Wesdo, I could go on just read the thread about "gallente got thier medal." See all of them try to brush off the fact that 4xs as many plexes are captured per kill as there was in 2009. The denial is pretty much laughable. All of them are arguing what a great system it is, and trying to argue against measures (such as notifications, end to station lock outs, or at least end lp for defensive plexing) which would make the game involve pvp. No they want to have their alts sit in their home system's plexes where the enemy doesn't even know they are there and can't even dock, and then beat their chest on the forums, about how "dominant" they are. Of course they won't actually say they want farmville. But they fill every thread that contains ideas to end the farmville with their bad arguments to reject those changes. They are and always were quite happy with the farmville fw sov is now. Just read the thread.
This is false. Your idea is shat. Timer roll baclk would be supreme. My arguments is simply the new system has generated more kills, and that GalMil had to fight for their medal. I could give a damn about the farming. |
Hidden Snake
Hidden Squid Society
264
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 09:04:00 -
[53] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:chatgris wrote:
The solution suggested, which is in CCPs backlog, is that if no-one is running a button, it counts down to its starting state. This way, if a farmer is chased out of a plex, and a pvper keeps chasing a farmers, the farmers work is undone while the pvper is trying to get a kill. This makes a pvper who is willing to fight for a plex, and chase farmers out of plexes have more influence of the sov war than a stabbed farmer.
Fear not.. I'm sure now that Caldari is getting a bit better foothold on the Sov War, CCP will surely rush out a patch to help you guys out with that roll back timer thing.
well i am expecting more ... OMS and Prism has fallen ... I guess some people in CCP are ringing bells of fastforward ;) |
Garan Nardieu
Moira. Villore Accords
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 10:03:00 -
[54] - Quote
Hidden Snake wrote: well i am expecting more ... OMS and Prism has fallen ... I guess some people in CCP are ringing bells of fastforward ;)
I do hope that you honestly believe in the "CCP favours GalMil" crap. It will make all the tears that are bound to be spilt one day they change anything FW related much sweeter... |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
1816
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 12:13:00 -
[55] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Dread Operative, XG, Crosi Wesdo, I could go on just read the thread about "gallente got thier medal." See all of them try to brush off the fact that 4xs as many plexes are captured per kill as there was in 2009. The denial is pretty much laughable. Are you still banging this gong?
You are literally a worse troll than Squirreldog. Mane 614
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Vizvig
Savage Blizzard Bora Alis
72
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 12:13:00 -
[56] - Quote
For what intendet FW if there a crowd of falcon covered, OGB boosted covards on damp. CN hookbils?
Yes, for farming. |
Hidden Snake
Hidden Squid Society
264
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 13:11:00 -
[57] - Quote
In the name of forum banned friend Damar:
Quote: Damar Rocarion
Well, they nerfed Caldari NPC's long time ago without saying anything and gave you the ninja patch which was the only reason you had a shot at your medal. You've not seen CCP to fast forward nullsec sovereignty mechanics have you?
Ninja patch was unprecedented interference to an ongoing war in history of Eve and was aimed directly at Caldari militias strategy to keep systems vulnerable for as long as possible so majority of the FW area would been theirs after the designated patch day. Which by the way was revealed long time in advance and both sides had time to maneuver themselves into optimal positions.
Yet CCP said in dev blog that people who worked hard to get their side to optimal position under the mechanics they created was unacceptable so ninja patch happened. We of course know this only applied because pendelum was being succesfully timed for Caldari's benefit and it was simply unacceptable for Devs playing for the gallente side to let this thing come to pass.
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
831
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 14:50:00 -
[58] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Cearain wrote:Takseen wrote:I'm still new to the whole FW thing, but surely if enemies are constantly cloaking/running away whenever you move into a Plex, your own forces will come out ahead? Eventually they'll have to either fight or abandon the whole business for something safer. Thats not the way it works. Farmers find a quiet system and farm away. They can go for hours before anyone who really cares knows they are are there. Then when someone, who does care, finds them they can run and hide in another system. So its a manpower problem of not being able to police your own space?
Yes inablility to police the space is the problem. Its sort of a cycle. Few people want to spend their free time roaming around chasing after people who are just farming or farming themselves. Yet the mechanics make it so that this is how faction war is won. So even fewer play the sov game. This was really the same problem with sov before the recent changes. By simply adding lp but not adding mechanics to help pvpers police the space ccp made the farming worse.
Its pretty obvious that mechanics that would help us police the farmers (like a notification system where plexes are being run) would be a huge step forward. But allot of the people posting in these threads are running the farm alts themselves so bash the idea with bad arguments like:
"Its too much information my head will explode" Of course ccp could just allow some filters, such as telling us where plexes are being run within a X number of jumps.
or
"we already know where the farmers are" Of course they don't. There are 171 systems between the 2 wars. No one knows where the farmers are.
The above arguments are made and shot down repeatedly and we end up with the real reason they do not like the idea: "I like orbiting buttons with my alts. It makes me feel like a winner."
But whatever, the refusal to think how the mechanics will effect whether plexes are farmed or fought over has lead to the current situation.
I will say ccp did a good thing with the npcs. They used to be an additional hurdle to pvp.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
831
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 14:52:00 -
[59] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Cearain wrote:Dread Operative, XG, Crosi Wesdo, I could go on just read the thread about "gallente got thier medal." See all of them try to brush off the fact that 4xs as many plexes are captured per kill as there was in 2009. The denial is pretty much laughable. Are you still banging this gong? You are literally a worse troll than Squirreldog.
Still trying to brush the facts aside? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
118
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 16:32:00 -
[60] - Quote
omg are u still banging on about notifications.. its never going to happen there finished with fw now and to make the notification system work would take to much of there time and its a dumb idea. the only thing that they can do is give us the timer rollback this would just be a simple reverse to already existing code. u say we are against things that will stop farming everyone is saying give us the roll back bt fk notifications GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
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