Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 24 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 21:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
As the orca is now having it's mining barge V prereq removed, and many who trained up to use an orca have none of the required skills for mining and have no desire to mine, and simply trained the orca for the purpose of hauling and acting as a mobile command platform, then would it be acceptable for CCP to refund this now useless skill and let players decide if they need mining barge at V or not.
Personally my feeling is that it would be good of CCP to refund this skill, and also any other skill which has been effected in this manner. The orca is a particular example as mining barge is completely useless to a lot of people who trained up for an Orca.
But also I think it would be fair to let pilots affected by the new changes decide if they want to keep the existing skills which are no longer pre reqs and if they want the SP to invest in somthing they will have use for.
The arguments against will be you had some use of the ships, so you must now pay the price. But imagine a character who has just freshly trained for an orca for example, they will have had little use from the orca to justify a month of extra training. Or imagine a player who wishes to train for an orca within the next 6 months. The current choice they face is either train for an orca now and face a month of useless training, or wait 6 months until skill changes have been implemented, if indeed they do get implemented in 6 months.
I propose CCP should give the option as they are doing with BC's and Destroyers, to refund players effected by the changes in skill requirements. I think this would be a fair policy to implement given the fundamental changes which are going on here.
I am sure there will be those who disagree with this also, and if that is the case than I respect that view, and would kindly ask for others to respect opposing views also. |
Kate stark
48
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 21:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
trained mining boosting ship. has no desire to mine.
i see the problem here, you're a bit of an idiot.
just so we're doubly clear, ccp should not refund your sp because you decided to use a ship for something other than it's intended purpose. |
Sairi Katelin
State War Academy Caldari State
58
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 21:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
lol. no. You chose to learn how to fly mining ships even knowing that you do not like mining. These mining skills are yours now. You worked hard for them and spent a lot of time learning them. Next time you decide to learn a skill in something you have no desire to do, remember those days. |
Montevius Williams
Eclipse Industrial Inc
378
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 21:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
No, it would not be acceptable. Games change. Just because a change happened that someone doesnt like, they should not be reimbursed in anyway.
Just becasue a ship gets nerfed/buffed in EVE, does not mean you should be compensated Just becasue a Warrior in WoW gets nerfed/buffed does not mean you should be compensated
"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB |
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
678
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 21:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:trained mining boosting ship. has no desire to mine.
i see the problem here, you're a bit of an idiot.
just so we're doubly clear, ccp should not refund your sp because you decided to use a ship for something other than it's intended purpose.
Don't think a reimbursement is going to happen.
But Orcas have a LOT of uses beyond mining, jackass. |
Ryuu Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 21:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
TL;DR
CCP nerf bat the supper carriers to only have fighters and fighters bombers now but waaaay back when they could use drones too.Did they get there SP refunded? Nope. Htfu and start pvping those rocks... Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
13986
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 21:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Oh nice, I didn't see that change.
Now that I don't have to train barges or industry skills, I may train that.
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 21:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Actually, the Orca is well known to be one of the best ships in the game for hauling goods, this is despite the nerf it recieved, it still remains superior to a freighter in many respects. Have a look on Agony and many other eve websites where it's recommended use is as a hauler and not as a mining ship, where it is generally stated that you are better off with another hulk than using the orca to mine.
Also even as a mining command ship pilot, that still means there is a chance that the pilot would have no use for mining barge V. So I think give the players the option to decide if they need the skill. After all many people spend months planning their skill training plans, so any fundamental change such as this should have the implications considered.
Also, calling people idiots is not a good start in the vein of trying to be respectful of others opinions. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6653
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 21:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
What about the countless characters that have been trained as capital alts and have a rank 8 skill trained to 5 that will no longer be needed, and is no longer relevant to the role of flying a capital? I haven't seen many people demanding those ~2 million skillpoints reimbursed. ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Kate stark
50
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 21:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
Herr Wilkus wrote:Kate stark wrote:trained mining boosting ship. has no desire to mine.
i see the problem here, you're a bit of an idiot.
just so we're doubly clear, ccp should not refund your sp because you decided to use a ship for something other than it's intended purpose. Don't think a reimbursement is going to happen. But Orcas have a LOT of uses beyond mining, jackass.
sure they do, but why should ccp refund SP just because you decided to use an orca for a use other than the use for which it was created? |
|
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2312
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 21:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Changes happen. There's been plenty of changes in the past that have reduced prereq skill requirments & CCP have never refunded skillpoints for those, nor should they. The only time you'll get a skillpoint refund is when they remove a skill entirely. Apparently booking your flight & accomodation to Iceland BEFORE you buy the tickets for the convention which is pretty much the only reason you wanted to go there in the first place is popular. |
Kate stark
50
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 21:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Actually, the Orca is well known to be one of the best ships in the game for hauling goods, this is despite the nerf it recieved, it still remains superior to a freighter in many respects. Have a look on Agony and many other eve websites where it's recommended use is as a hauler and not as a mining ship, where it is generally stated that you are better off with another hulk than using the orca to mine.
Also even as a mining command ship pilot, that still means there is a chance that the pilot would have no use for mining barge V. So I think give the players the option to decide if they need the skill. After all many people spend months planning their skill training plans, so any fundamental change such as this should have the implications considered.
Also, calling people idiots is not a good start in the vein of trying to be respectful of others opinions.
then simply accept it as the cost associated with the service your orca provides. y'know, like you did until now.
not sure which is funnier, how self entitled you're being or the tears. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 21:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
Andski wrote:What about the countless characters that have been trained as capital alts and have a rank 8 skill trained to 5 that will no longer be needed, and is no longer relevant to the role of flying a capital? I haven't seen many people demanding those ~2 million skillpoints reimbursed.
In my original post I suggested that any change to a skill which was a prereq, such as BS V for capital ships, then the pilot should be given the choice whether they wish to keep the skill at V, or if they wish to have the SP refunded. The only reason I am focusing on the orca is because mining barge is generally a useless skill to a lot of pilots who have trained or intend to train for an orca. |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
203
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 21:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
I trained up lasers a couple years ago when hybrids were completely terrible. Now that blasters are better I don't use the lasers anymore. So really I should get a refund of those Laser SPs. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1128
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 21:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote: I propose CCP should give the option as they are doing with BC's and Destroyers, to refund players effected by the changes in skill requirements. I think this would be a fair policy to implement given the fundamental changes which are going on here.
I suggest you go and reread the dev blog.
No option is being given for BC and Destroyers. The /only/ way to get a refund is to have trained Destroyers, without having /any/ frigate skill at 3. Or train BCs, with no cruiser at 3. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities.As well as mysql and CSV/XLS conversions of the Static Data Extract. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
1938
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 21:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
When Nano-ships were nerfed, pilots who trained to use that tactic were not reimbursed. When Gallente ships suffered inadvertent nerfs due to changes regarding MWDs/Scrams, Nos, and webs... they were not reimbursed. When Supercarriers were nerfed, pilots who trained specifically for that ship were not reimbursed. When Titans lost their AoE Doomsday and were nerfed over and over and over again... Titan pilots were not reimbursed. When HMLs were slightly nerfed... people were not reimbursed. The list goes on.
Changes happen. No skill is ever useless. You needed that skill at the time and it served its purpose. No harm done. Move on. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 21:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Actually, the Orca is well known to be one of the best ships in the game for hauling goods, this is despite the nerf it recieved, it still remains superior to a freighter in many respects. Have a look on Agony and many other eve websites where it's recommended use is as a hauler and not as a mining ship, where it is generally stated that you are better off with another hulk than using the orca to mine.
Also even as a mining command ship pilot, that still means there is a chance that the pilot would have no use for mining barge V. So I think give the players the option to decide if they need the skill. After all many people spend months planning their skill training plans, so any fundamental change such as this should have the implications considered.
Also, calling people idiots is not a good start in the vein of trying to be respectful of others opinions. then simply accept it as the cost associated with the service your orca provides. y'know, like you did until now. not sure which is funnier, how self entitled you're being or the tears.
Ok, now just imagine you are a new player looking at training an orca. You really want it to haul as it is the best ship in a lot of situations for hauling goods. You also think it would be useful as a mobile command platform. You have no intention to mine and hate the idea of mining though. The current choice you would face it to wait 6 or maybe more months for CCP to implement these changes, or alternatively delay your training for 6 months.
I would personally delay training for 6 months enless I really needed the orca for some immediate purpose. Also imagine how pissed those newbs will be who don't read this forum and train for the orca under the current regime. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 21:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:When Nano-ships were nerfed, pilots who trained to use that tactic were not reimbursed. When Gallente ships suffered inadvertent nerfs due to changes regarding MWDs/Scrams, Nos, and webs... they were not reimbursed. When Supercarriers were nerfed, pilots who trained specifically for that ship were not reimbursed. When Titans lost their AoE Doomsday and were nerfed over and over and over again... Titan pilots were not reimbursed. When HMLs were slightly nerfed... people were not reimbursed. The list goes one.
Changes happen. No skill is ever useless. You needed that skill at the time and it served its purpose. No harm done. Move on.
I agree, if ships or modules are nerfed then I wouldn't ask for a SP refund ever as the game changes, and what is the hottest thing today inevitably will not be in the coming months. The only difference here is CCP is embarking on a fundamental reform of the skill system. The last time I remember them doing that was with the learning skills. Change has to happen, but when tinkering with the skill system which many spend months planning, and spend cold hard cash on activating there accounts to train these skills, then I think an exception could be made. |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
203
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 21:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Ok, now just imagine you are a new player looking at training an orca. You really want it to haul as it is the best ship in a lot of situations for hauling goods. You also think it would be useful as a mobile command platform. You have no intention to mine and hate the idea of mining though. The current choice you would face it to wait 6 or maybe more months for CCP to implement these changes, or alternatively delay your training for 6 months.
Yeah. I had to do the same thing. Wait for blasters to get buffed, or train for lasers immediately.
Anyway Mining Barge V is only 15 days or so, less to a dedicated industrialist. Nothing a 6 month old "newbie" should be worrying about. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 21:52:00 -
[20] - Quote
Takseen wrote:I trained up lasers a couple years ago when hybrids were completely terrible. Now that blasters are better I don't use the lasers anymore. So really I should get a refund of those Laser SPs.
But if you trained up lasers as they were a pre req for blasters, and then CCP removed that pre req, then I guess you now have a useless laser skill enless you fly amarr.
Again if it is simply a module buff or nerf then I would agree, no SP should be refunded. |
|
Kate stark
55
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 21:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Kate stark wrote:Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Actually, the Orca is well known to be one of the best ships in the game for hauling goods, this is despite the nerf it recieved, it still remains superior to a freighter in many respects. Have a look on Agony and many other eve websites where it's recommended use is as a hauler and not as a mining ship, where it is generally stated that you are better off with another hulk than using the orca to mine.
Also even as a mining command ship pilot, that still means there is a chance that the pilot would have no use for mining barge V. So I think give the players the option to decide if they need the skill. After all many people spend months planning their skill training plans, so any fundamental change such as this should have the implications considered.
Also, calling people idiots is not a good start in the vein of trying to be respectful of others opinions. then simply accept it as the cost associated with the service your orca provides. y'know, like you did until now. not sure which is funnier, how self entitled you're being or the tears. Ok, now just imagine you are a new player looking at training an orca. You really want it to haul as it is the best ship in a lot of situations for hauling goods. You also think it would be useful as a mobile command platform. You have no intention to mine and hate the idea of mining though. The current choice you would face it to wait 6 or maybe more months for CCP to implement these changes, or alternatively delay your training for 6 months. I would personally delay training for 6 months enless I really needed the orca for some immediate purpose. Also imagine how pissed those newbs will be who don't read this forum and train for the orca under the current regime.
people who refuse to find sources of information deserve no sympathy. just had to get that obvious fact out of the way.
secondly: what does this have to do with your floods of tears about SP reimbursement? |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2315
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 21:55:00 -
[22] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Ok, now just imagine you are a new player looking at training an orca. You really want it to haul as it is the best ship in a lot of situations for hauling goods. You also think it would be useful as a mobile command platform. You have no intention to mine and hate the idea of mining though. The current choice you would face it to wait 6 or maybe more months for CCP to implement these changes, or alternatively delay your training for 6 months.
I would personally delay training for 6 months enless I really needed the orca for some immediate purpose. Also imagine how pissed those newbs will be who don't read this forum and train for the orca under the current regime.
Changes like this have happened several times in the past & we've never had skillpoints reimbursed. If a person isn't reading the forums then chances are they will never be aware of this change anyway. Skillpoints should never be reimbursed because of changes unless the skill is removed entirely. Apparently booking your flight & accomodation to Iceland BEFORE you buy the tickets for the convention which is pretty much the only reason you wanted to go there in the first place is popular. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3826
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 21:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:then I guess you now have a useless laser skill enless you fly amarr. Choosing not to use a skill doesn't make the skill useless. Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Jonah Gravenstein
The Burning Lotus
5592
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 21:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
CCP don't refund SP because of prerequisite changes, the only time they have refunded SP is when they removed learning skills.
TL;DR
Nope, you shouldn't get a refund, the mining skills aren't useless and aren't being removed from the game. HTFU.
I am Ohm of Borg, Resistance is Voltage/Current. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2315
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 22:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:When Nano-ships were nerfed, pilots who trained to use that tactic were not reimbursed. When Gallente ships suffered inadvertent nerfs due to changes regarding MWDs/Scrams, Nos, and webs... they were not reimbursed. When Supercarriers were nerfed, pilots who trained specifically for that ship were not reimbursed. When Titans lost their AoE Doomsday and were nerfed over and over and over again... Titan pilots were not reimbursed. When HMLs were slightly nerfed... people were not reimbursed. The list goes one.
Changes happen. No skill is ever useless. You needed that skill at the time and it served its purpose. No harm done. Move on. I agree, if ships or modules are nerfed then I wouldn't ask for a SP refund ever as the game changes, and what is the hottest thing today inevitably will not be in the coming months. The only difference here is CCP is embarking on a fundamental reform of the skill system. The last time I remember them doing that was with the learning skills. Change has to happen, but when tinkering with the skill system which many spend months planning, and spend cold hard cash on activating there accounts to train these skills, then I think an exception could be made.
Subscription fees don't just allow you to train skills you know. The primary issue with the sort of skillpoint reimbursement that you're asking for is it increases flavour of the month accessibility. Apparently booking your flight & accomodation to Iceland BEFORE you buy the tickets for the convention which is pretty much the only reason you wanted to go there in the first place is popular. |
Arduemont
Tempest Legion
1190
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 22:03:00 -
[26] - Quote
I told you that your viewpoint was a minority OP.
This is pretty pathetic to be honest. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Melikor Tissant
Odd Fluffy Bunnies
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 22:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
I don't understand why people are playing the blind eye on how the orca works.
* It can be a great mobile base while soloing WHs for example, without use of the mining benefits. * It can haul decent size carbo with a very big tank, plus a few ships inside it. * It can be used for logistics in places without a station. * It can spin really quickly.
Mining barge skill was a lesser evil to train for an orca for non miners (hell, you are not even mining), but its not "only 15 days". Its almost a whole month of training difference. A time which can be spent on other things. After the change you can get into a hauling or mobile base orca, up and running, in a month, while before you were still not even close to fly that ship.
Those 30 days skill are not being used at all in an orca anyway. So I understand that people will want those 30 days back. Its a lot of skill points (not hugely a lot, but still, 30 days?).
You can easily distinguished between people who want that skill (people who added the extra 2 weeks for exhumers as an example) and people who don't (people who did not), and you can easily give them the option of reallocating those skill points into the barges anyway (retriever and so on) or just put it someplace else if they way. We are still talking about 1.5M sp or so which can be reallocated to a better use. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2317
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 22:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
Melikor Tissant wrote:You can easily distinguished between people who want that skill (people who added the extra 2 weeks for exhumers as an example) and people who don't (people who did not), and you can easily give them the option of reallocating those skill points into the barges anyway (retriever and so on) or just put it someplace else if they way. We are still talking about 1.5M sp or so which can be reallocated to a better use.
If CCP did this, they would have to reimburse skillpoints for every change ever made. I don't understand how you can not see the problems this would cause. Apparently booking your flight & accomodation to Iceland BEFORE you buy the tickets for the convention which is pretty much the only reason you wanted to go there in the first place is popular. |
Kate stark
55
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 22:12:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Melikor Tissant wrote:You can easily distinguished between people who want that skill (people who added the extra 2 weeks for exhumers as an example) and people who don't (people who did not), and you can easily give them the option of reallocating those skill points into the barges anyway (retriever and so on) or just put it someplace else if they way. We are still talking about 1.5M sp or so which can be reallocated to a better use. If CCP did this, they would have to reimburse skillpoints for every change ever made. I don't understand how you can not see the problems this would cause.
refund all skill points for all players. it'll save the GD spam, at least. |
Arduemont
Tempest Legion
1190
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 22:13:00 -
[30] - Quote
Melikor Tissant wrote:I don't understand why people are playing the blind eye on how the orca works.
* It can be a great mobile base while soloing WHs for example, without use of the mining benefits. * It can haul decent size carbo with a very big tank, plus a few ships inside it. * It can be used for logistics in places without a station. * It can spin really quickly.
Mining barge skill was a lesser evil to train for an orca for non miners (hell, you are not even mining), but its not "only 15 days". Its almost a whole month of training difference. A time which can be spent on other things. After the change you can get into a hauling or mobile base orca, up and running, in a month, while before you were still not even close to fly that ship.
Those 30 days skill are not being used at all in an orca anyway. So I understand that people will want those 30 days back. Its a lot of skill points (not hugely a lot, but still, 30 days?).
You can easily distinguished between people who want that skill (people who added the extra 2 weeks for exhumers as an example) and people who don't (people who did not), and you can easily give them the option of reallocating those skill points into the barges anyway (retriever and so on) or just put it someplace else if they way. We are still talking about 1.5M sp or so which can be reallocated to a better use.
Although all of the above may be true, it doesn't make a reimbursement right. Capital pilots are going to be struck much harder by this phenomenon than the Orca pilots will be, and I don't hear them complaining. There are literally hundreds of skills and ships that will be effected by this. CCP does not owe you your skills back. You made the choice to train them knowing that those skillpoints wouldn't benefit you in any other way than to get that specific ship. Now, you need to live with your decision, end of. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 24 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |