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Barrak
Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms
76
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 22:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi,
Just returning to the game after a 3/4 month abscence (not to long) and have just read the blog on ship skill changes that are due in the Summer. I'm finishing my Cap training soon and wanted to look at Command Ships.
The blog about them is somewhat vague in relation to the parts that concern me and I wanted to ask for some advice.
This is the comment in the blog and I'll like the picture too...
Command Ships
- Racial Cruiser 5 requirement swapped for racial Battlecruiser 5
- Generic and old Battlecruiser skill removed from the Command Ship skill
- Heavy Assault Ships skill requirement removed from Field Command Ships (Absolution, Nighthawk, Astarte, Sleipnir)
- Logistics skill requirement removed from Fleet Command Ships (Damnation, Vulture, Eos, Claymore)
- Information Warfare 5 skill added as requirement for the Command Ship skill
- Armored Warfare 5 skill added as requirement for the Command Ship skill
- Siege Warfare 5 skill added as requirement for the Command Ship skill
- Skirmish Warfare 5 skill added as requirement for the Command Ship skill
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/64158/1/SkillCommandShip.jpg
Now, from what I can make out, the Warfare training alone is around a 145 days training and they ALL seem to be required for ANY of the Command Ships, regardless of fleet or field class.
I currently have all racial cruisers to 5 and I also have Battle Cruisers to 5.
Here are my questions:
- Am I right about the training requirements for the Warfare skills? Are they ALL required and is it around 145?
- If I trained Command Ships to level 5 immediately and did NOT train the warfare skills, would I be given the racial Battlecruiser skills to 5 when the change takes place? (I beleive I would based on the comments about ignoring the pre-requisits if the main skills is trained, COmmand 1 in this case).
- Currently the FIELD command ships themselves require the Heavy Assault Ships to L4. However, the Command ship SKILL itself does not require this. If I was to NOT train the HAC's to 4 (I probably would), but train Command Ships to 5, would I be able to fly all the Command ships come the change?
Regards
Barrak |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
168
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Posted - 2013.02.10 22:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
To get [racial] battlecruiser given to you at level 5, you need: Battlecruisers 5 [racial] Cruiser 3
That is all. The presence or absence of levels of Command Ship are totally irrelevant to what levels you will get in the racial battlecruiser skills. |
Barrak
Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms
76
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Posted - 2013.02.10 22:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Thanks for the quck reply, but I'm not sure I understand it.
My questions are based around ensuring I can fly Command Ships without having to put 150 days or so into the Warfare links.
I'm not sure how the BC skill is relevant to my original question. Have I missed something?
Regards |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
168
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 00:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
I was answering your question 2:
Quote:If I trained Command Ships to level 5 immediately and did NOT train the warfare skills, would I be given the racial Battlecruiser skills to 5 when the change takes place?
Your getting [racial] Battlecruiser at 5 has nothing whatsoever to do with your level in Command Ships. You will get [racial] battlecruiser to 5 if you have [racial] Cruiser 3 and Battlecruisers 5, those are the only requirements.
As for will you be able to fly the Command Ships, the answer is if you can fly it before the change you will be able to fly it afterwards because the ship pre-reqs for the Command Ships aren't changing, what's changing is the pre-reqs to inject the Command Ships skill. If you've injected that before the summer change then the summer skill change to the Command Ship skill pre-reqs will have no effect on you. |
Mister Tuggles
Prime Numbers
29
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Posted - 2013.02.11 00:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Barrak wrote:Thanks for the quck reply, but I'm not sure I understand it.
My questions are based around ensuring I can fly Command Ships without having to put 150 days or so into the Warfare links.
I'm not sure how the BC skill is relevant to my original question. Have I missed something?
Regards
If you plan on flying more than one race of Command ship you will want to train all of your racial frigs to 4, all your racial cruisers to 3, and battle cruisers to 5. This will grant you all four racial BC skills at 5 when they do the switch. As a suggestion you should also train Destroyers to 5 so that you get all racial destroyers at 5 when the skill change rolls out.
What you want to train in the leadership department is leadership 5, warfare link specialist 4, Armored Warfare to 5, Info warfare to 5, skirmish warfare to 5, and siege warfare to 5. This is about a month or so of training.
Edit: And to the above poster: From my understanding the ship pre-reqs ARE changing. You no longer have to train up logistics or HACs to be able to use command ships. It will just be based on BC, cruiser, and leadership skills. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1132
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 00:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
Barrak wrote:Thanks for the quck reply, but I'm not sure I understand it.
My questions are based around ensuring I can fly Command Ships without having to put 150 days or so into the Warfare links.
I'm not sure how the BC skill is relevant to my original question. Have I missed something?
Regards
Armored Warfare 5: 14 days or so. Information Warfare 5: 14 days Siege Warfare 5: 14 days Skirmish Warfare 5: 14 days. Warfare Link Specialist 4 (including leadership 5): 14.5 days Spaceship Command 5: 6.5 days.
No warfare link skills needed, except for warfare link specialist.
FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities.As well as mysql and CSV/XLS conversions of the Static Data Extract. |
BadAssMcKill
Ghost Headquarters The Ghost Army
113
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Posted - 2013.02.11 02:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Basically if you have command ships to any level trained along with the prereqs to getting all racial BCs to 5 you'll be able to fly all of the command ships post patch Starships were meant to fly~ |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
985
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Posted - 2013.02.11 03:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Barrak wrote:Thanks for the quck reply, but I'm not sure I understand it.
My questions are based around ensuring I can fly Command Ships without having to put 150 days or so into the Warfare links.
I'm not sure how the BC skill is relevant to my original question. Have I missed something?
Regards Armored Warfare 5: 14 days or so. Information Warfare 5: 14 days Siege Warfare 5: 14 days Skirmish Warfare 5: 14 days. Warfare Link Specialist 4 (including leadership 5): 14.5 days Spaceship Command 5: 6.5 days. No warfare link skills needed, except for warfare link specialist. Oh, and if you have command ships at any level, you don't need to train the leadership skills to be able to use them. Only to inject that skill in the first place.
This is correct, though training times are off by about 3 days per type (so 11 instead of 14 for Armored Warfare etc; this is assuming a Per/Will map with +4s). |
Carniflex
StarHunt
30
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Posted - 2013.02.11 06:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Barrak wrote:Thanks for the quck reply, but I'm not sure I understand it.
My questions are based around ensuring I can fly Command Ships without having to put 150 days or so into the Warfare links.
I'm not sure how the BC skill is relevant to my original question. Have I missed something?
Regards
What will happen is following: If you can (currently) sit into the Command Ship hull (i.e., have the command ships skill trained and meed the current pre-requisites) you will be given the relevant racial command ship skill at equal level to your current generic command ship skill.
After the patch - if you had, say, command ships level 4, but do not meet the new requiments for command ships skill (the warfare links) you will be able to still fly the ship, as you have the command ships skill. However, you will NOT be able to train the skill from level 4 up to level 5 until you meet the pre requisties for the skill.
Take that with grain of salt, that comment is based on prior experience related to having skills which "new" pre requisites are not met (pos gunnery many years back) and on reading the devblog. |
Barrak
Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms
76
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Posted - 2013.02.11 07:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
thanks guys..... I understand now.
One more question though. If I took Command Ship skill to level 1 and no further (and I currently have BC+all racial cruisers to 5) does that mean after the patch I can just push it up to five afterwards in no rush?
What I'm trying to get at I guess is to know if I have to max out before the patch or just take it to level one and then put the remain four levels in at my leisure.
Regards
Barrak |
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Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
168
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Posted - 2013.02.11 07:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
Barrak wrote:One more question though. If I took Command Ship skill to level 1 and no further (and I currently have BC+all racial cruisers to 5) does that mean after the patch I can just push it up to five afterwards in no rush?
Yes.
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Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
168
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Posted - 2013.02.11 07:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mister Tuggles wrote:[quote=Barrak]Edit: And to the above poster: From my understanding the ship pre-reqs ARE changing. You no longer have to train up logistics or HACs to be able to use command ships. It will just be based on BC, cruiser, and leadership skills.
Check the dev blog again. With the exception of destroyers, battlecruisers, navy battleships and industrials, none of the ship pre-reqs are changing, what's changing is the skill pre-reqs, The Command Ships skill, not the specific ships is what's losing the logistics and HAC skill pre-reqs.
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Carniflex
StarHunt
30
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Posted - 2013.02.11 09:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
Barrak wrote:thanks guys..... I understand now.
One more question though. If I took Command Ship skill to level 1 and no further (and I currently have BC+all racial cruisers to 5) does that mean after the patch I can just push it up to five afterwards in no rush?
What I'm trying to get at I guess is to know if I have to max out before the patch or just take it to level one and then put the remain four levels in at my leisure.
Regards
Barrak
Nope. To train the skill any further you would need to meet the new prerequisites for the skill, i.e., the warfare link skills at 5. You keep whatever level you have trained and can drive the ship at that level of skill but pre requisities are checked every time you put the skill into training, not only when you first plug it in.
Unless something has changed over the past 4-5 years ofc. It has been a long while since I had a skill trained which prerequisites I did not meet after the change (the POS gunnery skill when its purpose was changed and its rank increased to fit the skills new purpose). I could control the number of guns fitting to the skill level, however, as at that time I did not have anchoring lev 5 trained I was not able to train the skill any further until I trained anchoring 5. |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
168
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 13:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Nope. To train the skill any further you would need to meet the new prerequisites for the skill, i.e., the warfare link skills at 5. You keep whatever level you have trained and can drive the ship at that level of skill but pre requisities are checked every time you put the skill into training, not only when you first plug it in.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2583413#post2583413
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Alrigh folks, good news. We'll change the way training works so that you can still train the skills you have after change, even if you don't meet the prerequisite anymore. Ex: You have Amarr Freighter 1 after the change but not Advanced Spaceship Command 5. You can still fly the Providence and you will now still be able to train Amarr Freighter past 1 as long as you have the skill injected.Hope that's clear - trying my very best
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
987
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 15:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
Elena Thiesant wrote:Carniflex wrote:Nope. To train the skill any further you would need to meet the new prerequisites for the skill, i.e., the warfare link skills at 5. You keep whatever level you have trained and can drive the ship at that level of skill but pre requisities are checked every time you put the skill into training, not only when you first plug it in. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2583413#post2583413CCP Ytterbium wrote:Alrigh folks, good news. We'll change the way training works so that you can still train the skills you have after change, even if you don't meet the prerequisite anymore. Ex: You have Amarr Freighter 1 after the change but not Advanced Spaceship Command 5. You can still fly the Providence and you will now still be able to train Amarr Freighter past 1 as long as you have the skill injected.Hope that's clear - trying my very best
Beat me to it. Carniflex is right in as much as that's how it's worked before, but Ytterbium has gone and made it even friendlier for us all. So to be explicit: yes, if you have CS 1 before the changes you'll be able to push to CS 5 after the changes without meeting the new prerequisites. |
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
51
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Posted - 2013.02.11 16:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
Elena Thiesant wrote:Check the dev blog again. With the exception of destroyers, battlecruisers, navy battleships and industrials, none of the ship pre-reqs are changing, what's changing is the skill pre-reqs, The Command Ships skill, not the specific ships is what's losing the logistics and HAC skill pre-reqs. The Command Ships skill doesn't require Logi/HAC, the Command Ship hulls do. |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
170
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 17:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Zor'katar wrote:Elena Thiesant wrote:Check the dev blog again. With the exception of destroyers, battlecruisers, navy battleships and industrials, none of the ship pre-reqs are changing, what's changing is the skill pre-reqs, The Command Ships skill, not the specific ships is what's losing the logistics and HAC skill pre-reqs. The Command Ships skill doesn't require Logi/HAC, the Command Ship hulls do.
Ok, so the hulls are losing pre-reqs and the skills are gaining pre-reqs (hull will only require [racial] battlecruiser 5 and Command Ships 1 after the skill change) |
Barrak
Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms
76
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 20:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Great......
thank you all so much.... much clearer now.
I'll put points into Command Ships now to take advantage of the lack of warfare link requirement and then when the change the requirements I won't need the logi/hac skills.
Cheers! |
Korvus Falek
Depraved Corruption Quixotic Hegemony
57
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 01:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Barrak wrote:Thanks for the quck reply, but I'm not sure I understand it.
My questions are based around ensuring I can fly Command Ships without having to put 150 days or so into the Warfare links.
I'm not sure how the BC skill is relevant to my original question. Have I missed something?
Regards Armored Warfare 5: 14 days or so. Information Warfare 5: 14 days Siege Warfare 5: 14 days Skirmish Warfare 5: 14 days. Warfare Link Specialist 4 (including leadership 5): 14.5 days Spaceship Command 5: 6.5 days. No warfare link skills needed, except for warfare link specialist. Oh, and if you have command ships at any level, you don't need to train the leadership skills to be able to use them. Only to inject that skill in the first place. This is correct, though training times are off by about 3 days per type (so 11 instead of 14 for Armored Warfare etc; this is assuming a Per/Will map with +4s). Edit: if your goal is to fly CSs and not HACs or logis, you'd be better off rushing to BC 5 and all cruisers to 3 before the patch to get all racial BCs to 5 and then training the additional leadership skills. If you plan to pick up all your cruiser 5s anyhow you might want to consider training CSs now under the current (more limited) leadership skill regimen.
The times might be off a bit more, but Im spec'd for cha/will atm, so training the base skills to 5 is only 6 days and some hours with +4s plugged in. But w/e.... |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1134
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 03:02:00 -
[20] - Quote
Korvus Falek wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Barrak wrote:Thanks for the quck reply, but I'm not sure I understand it.
My questions are based around ensuring I can fly Command Ships without having to put 150 days or so into the Warfare links.
I'm not sure how the BC skill is relevant to my original question. Have I missed something?
Regards Armored Warfare 5: 14 days or so. Information Warfare 5: 14 days Siege Warfare 5: 14 days Skirmish Warfare 5: 14 days. Warfare Link Specialist 4 (including leadership 5): 14.5 days Spaceship Command 5: 6.5 days. No warfare link skills needed, except for warfare link specialist. Oh, and if you have command ships at any level, you don't need to train the leadership skills to be able to use them. Only to inject that skill in the first place. This is correct, though training times are off by about 3 days per type (so 11 instead of 14 for Armored Warfare etc; this is assuming a Per/Will map with +4s). Edit: if your goal is to fly CSs and not HACs or logis, you'd be better off rushing to BC 5 and all cruisers to 3 before the patch to get all racial BCs to 5 and then training the additional leadership skills. If you plan to pick up all your cruiser 5s anyhow you might want to consider training CSs now under the current (more limited) leadership skill regimen. The times might be off a bit more, but Im spec'd for cha/will atm, so training the base skills to 5 is only 6 days and some hours with +4s plugged in. But w/e....
I was going for a non remapped build. not worst case, not best case. more average case. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities.As well as mysql and CSV/XLS conversions of the Static Data Extract. |
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Carniflex
StarHunt
34
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Posted - 2013.02.12 07:49:00 -
[21] - Quote
I stand corrected. Thanx for the updated info - its good to know that this mechanics has changed. So I went and plugged in command ships skill on couple of my alts and roqual skill into my main, knowing that while there is not enough time to push them up to good level, I can do so later as long as I have the skill plugged in. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
127
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Posted - 2013.02.12 08:52:00 -
[22] - Quote
Elena Thiesant wrote:Barrak wrote:One more question though. If I took Command Ship skill to level 1 and no further (and I currently have BC+all racial cruisers to 5) does that mean after the patch I can just push it up to five afterwards in no rush? Yes. This is incorrect.
After the patch you will require the four warfare skills to be able to increase your command ships skill. However, depending on where they, and what else appears in the ship tree you should be able to fly the ships. |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
171
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 09:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jacob Holland wrote:After the patch you will require the four warfare skills to be able to increase your command ships skill. However, depending on where they, and what else appears in the ship tree you should be able to fly the ships.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2583413#post2583413
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Alrigh folks, good news. We'll change the way training works so that you can still train the skills you have after change, even if you don't meet the prerequisite anymore. Ex: You have Amarr Freighter 1 after the change but not Advanced Spaceship Command 5. You can still fly the Providence and you will now still be able to train Amarr Freighter past 1 as long as you have the skill injected. Hope that's clear - trying my very best
|
ChaseX
The Executives Executive Outcomes
15
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Posted - 2013.02.12 11:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
unbelievable that a thread about a topic that has been made crystal clear in dev blogs is now 2 pages long and people still don't understand it. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14033
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 10:05:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jacob Holland wrote:Elena Thiesant wrote:Barrak wrote:One more question though. If I took Command Ship skill to level 1 and no further (and I currently have BC+all racial cruisers to 5) does that mean after the patch I can just push it up to five afterwards in no rush? Yes. This is incorrect. After the patch you will require the four warfare skills to be able to increase your command ships skill. However, depending on where they, and what else appears in the ship tree you should be able to fly the ships. You are wrong. Please read the blod and stop posting misinformation. The prereqs are only required to inject the skill. If they have it injected, they will NOT need the new prereqs to fly it, or continue training the command ship skill.
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
JIATPuOT
Hunter Heavy Industries
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 17:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
If I haven't trained Heavy Assault Ships to 4 yet, should I just skip that and get Command Ships to 1 and move on? I don't want to train it if I don't absolutely have to. I just want to be 110% crystal clear. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14076
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 17:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
JIATPuOT wrote:If I haven't trained Heavy Assault Ships to 4 yet, should I just skip that and get Command Ships to 1 and move on? I don't want to train it if I don't absolutely have to. I just want to be 110% crystal clear. I would suggest doing the minimum, to allow injection of that skill and get it to 1. All it took for me on an alt, was leadership 5 and warfare link spec 4.
Once you have the skill, you'll be able to fly command ships after the change. If you wait, you'll have to train all those new leadership prereq skills required, that you don't already have.
Just check the command ship skill in game, to see which skills you require to inject it.
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
JIATPuOT
Hunter Heavy Industries
1
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Posted - 2013.02.15 17:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
Yep, I understand, and warfare is training to 4 as we speak, then I will train Command Ships to 1. I am pulling Heavy Assault Ships out of my plan then, 4 days saved. I just didn't want that to come back and bite me in the ass after the change. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14076
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 17:59:00 -
[29] - Quote
JIATPuOT wrote:Yep, I understand, and warfare is training to 4 as we speak, then I will train Command Ships to 1. I am pulling Heavy Assault Ships out of my plan then, 4 days saved. I just didn't want that to come back and bite me in the ass after the change. Well this change isn't till the summer, so plenty of time yet and no need to worry.
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Barrak
Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms
76
|
Posted - 2013.02.23 08:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
Am i missing something? I went to inject the Command SKill this morning, in line with this thread, and it turns out that it requires Warfare Link 4.
Barrak |
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