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Tsaya
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Posted - 2003.07.17 08:05:00 -
[1]
Trying to keep it short;), i do bussiness strategy and combat tactics consulting for small to medium corps, mainly startups. The following is strictly againt my bussiness practics, cause i will give out info for free(donations are welcome, though;), but as many people are whining that you cant engage a camping force without outnumbering them severely, and some even ask for warpdroppoints to be moved 100km away from the gate, i hope itll help em a bit and help the pvp in this game.
Disclaimer: This was only used in medium scale encounters so far, it should work equally in large scale encounters, but wasnt tested yet (there are not that many ;).
How to engage a gate camping force without the first ships to arrive being shot down before the real combat ensues?
The answer is the proper use of scouts. A scout for this task is a fast cruiser (the faster the better) with 2 MWDs installed. The scout warps to the gate and switches his MWDs on (on autorepeat) shortly before dropping out of warp, most importantly before the environment is loaded. That will result in him dropping out of warp at approx 18 km/s!
During the roughly 5 seconds it at least takes to target him, hell have moved 90km and be far out of range.
The scout, once he has control over his vessel, aproaches the gate (you can brake faster by trying to do a 180 degree turn than by stopping in this game), and will usually manage to stop at about 160-200km distance to the gate (takes some time, he should have agility as high as possible, or hell end up at 300km).
He shortly switches the MWDs on again, to close up to 60-100km, as desired.
At that point any other ship of his gang can warp to him, beeing at safe distance to lag a bit and then engage.
The above specified tactic will of course not stop any campers from fleeing, but you can drive em off, and keep em on the move.
If they dont flee outflanking is a very practical option. You could f.e. warp in with half your force and engage, if the think, hey, only so and so much ships, we can manage that force and engage, the rest of your ships warps to the gate, into their back.
Im am very thankful for any comments, corrections, points pointed out where i may be wrong, and general feedback (as well as donations;). *Puts on her flame proof suit* (you never know these days)
Edited by: Tsaya on 17/07/2003 08:09:32
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Lord Zap
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Posted - 2003.07.17 08:11:00 -
[2]
What happens if the gate campers decide to warp to the scout? lol
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Tsaya
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Posted - 2003.07.17 08:16:00 -
[3]
First: warpin before he reached his desired distance is pointless, cause he easily outruns you with 2 mwds his average speed beeing measured in km/s and not m/s. (you only have to switch two mwds on for one cycle, to reach such speeds, and then you just drift, quite energy efficient)
Second: Warping to a target requires it to be more than 150km away afaik, at desired distance its not possible.
Third: If you manage to do it nonetheless, he can still easily outrun you, and the scouts force can warp to the gate, if most campers warp to him, or to him, if only a few did that and mop them up.
And yep, before you reply that ;), the scout should be an experienced pilot, if you send in a newb, heŚll fail.
Edited by: Tsaya on 17/07/2003 08:54:08
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PropanElgen
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Posted - 2003.07.17 09:42:00 -
[4]
How does fitting 2 MWD's affect your shield? Will you end up with 25% or 0%? All the angels and the puny men of god looked away... Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
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Rancid Mare
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Posted - 2003.07.17 09:51:00 -
[5]
oh er.....
getting a small fast ship to fly a sensible distance from the JG and allowing fellow gang members to warp to him...
blimey thats ultra novel tactics that is....... and you say thinking up these most exclusive tatical plans is your living......
LOL... this has got to be one of the fuuniest posts ive read in a long long time.
Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals. Our Webby
Recruitement Videos here |
Tsaya
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Posted - 2003.07.17 10:13:00 -
[6]
Rancid, its nice to hear that you enjoyed my post ;). But really, the above tactical plan is quite exclusive. Not cause its so hard to come up with, but cause the great majority has no idea, as can be seen in nearly every post about gatecamping. I guess im not the only one that knew the above, but all others decided to keep their info for themselves, making it indeed exclusive. Btw, you wouldnt believe how many simple things most people dont know, even CEOs.
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Ruulex DeMors
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Posted - 2003.07.17 10:17:00 -
[7]
I'm wandering if you could use 2 or 3 of those "scouts" to push a BS out of jumping distance while under MWD...Ever been in a strip mining op and run into the group at full MWD speed? We call it bowling for cans. But I've been moved as much as 5km by being the ship approached (In a Moa btw).
Edited by: Ruulex DeMors on 17/07/2003 10:17:28 ------------------------------------- Interm-CEO for EVE Marshals http://www.EVEMarshals.com |
Stavros
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Posted - 2003.07.17 10:37:00 -
[8]
Rocket science... pure rocket science... --
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.17 10:44:00 -
[9]
ramming might work, and would be fantastically funny. Unfortunately, to get the trajectory right, you cannot activate your mwd's early, you have to line up first. But hit anything with the force of twin MWD's behind you, and it's gonna move. .
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Ruulex DeMors
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Posted - 2003.07.17 10:51:00 -
[10]
Yes, you would have to warp on the otherside of the gate and turn around. Then allow for the time it takes to accelerate to full speed. But the main battle group would be enough of a distraction to allow a scout to do this. Though using the main strategy of the oringal post wouldn't work with this one effectively.
Something I'll have to organize and try to see if it works. ------------------------------------- Interm-CEO for EVE Marshals http://www.EVEMarshals.com |
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Lord Zap
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Posted - 2003.07.17 11:34:00 -
[11]
Tsaya don't give up the day job :)
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Tsaya
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Posted - 2003.07.17 13:00:00 -
[12]
About that ramming thing: I definetely have to try that out, though i think its more a sport then a combat tactic ;). Comes close to double MWD torpedo jousting (a lot of fun, but hard to use efficiently).
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Gauguin
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Posted - 2003.07.17 14:29:00 -
[13]
What happens when the gate-campers decide to use the gate to jump out?
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Tsaya
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Posted - 2003.07.17 17:13:00 -
[14]
The post was as stated not meant for preventing the campers from fleeing, but to make it possible to engage or drive them off without outnumbering em heavily and still taking large losses.
With the standard warp to the gate approach, youll lose ships and theyll still be able to run off.
With the above approach, if they flee from a fight, they do that at least without causing damage, which is one big difference.
Furthermore forces that want to engage are able to do so, preventing long stalemates resulting from the fact that with the normal approach and comparable forces the side that warps to engage will probably lose.
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Setec
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Posted - 2003.07.17 17:32:00 -
[15]
Heh, I thought of that a long time ago and was amazed that nobody tried it against m0o at Passari during that whole fiasco, and nobody has ever tried it against us.
I think one thing that gives many pirates the edge is that they're more focused on PVP and spend more time thinking about and developing combat tactics than the less PVP-centric corporations. Obviously there are a few clever tactical thinkers out there on the "good side" and I think life will become even more dangerous for pirates once some of these tactics become commonplace. ___________________________________________
Space Invaders website: http://www.si-corp.net |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.07.17 18:04:00 -
[16]
Some people did try it - they did it fine and pot-shotted at m0o at ultra-long range before the range-boosters (track links) were cut down.
Not saying its an old and well known "tactic" (with inherent flaws d.o.y.p.o.v) but it recently appeared on the Antiques Roadshow on Amarri TV.
/em shrugs
Good job she didn't expect anybody to pay for the "lesson" though.
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Tobruk
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Posted - 2003.07.17 18:38:00 -
[17]
This idea sounds very good, I think its kinda funny how easily zap dismisses it. If anything, you could warp in you entire armada at about 200 clicks out from the gate and then engage in long range attacks. The best part is that this tactic takes away the 'lag-advantage' that pirates sitting at a gate have. ----------------------------------------------
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Maarek Steele
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Posted - 2003.07.17 18:45:00 -
[18]
It is a good idea, right up until an ECM cruiser MWDs to you and jams the fleet.
Our hangar is full of corpses from people who had 'good ideas'.
-=Maarek Steele=- Have gun, will travel. |
Tsaya
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Posted - 2003.07.17 18:45:00 -
[19]
Drak, if you knew it, fine. I didnt force you to read it again. I didnt state that it a is "brand new never seem before" tactic. It isnt.
But the overwhelming majority of people had no clue, and i have even seen a lot of accomplished players posting stuff like "you cant attack a gate blockade cause you get shot down due to lag", or 2 dozens of ships not engaging cause of this argument.
P.S.: Thanks for reminding me, btw, i still accept donations. ;]
Maarek, your objection to the tactic does not really have anything to do with this particular tactic, or the topic. Thanks for pointing out that a dozen newbs cant kill experienced players this way, but that applies to any tactic or combat situation.
If you like jumping straight to the gate better, i wont stop you from doing it ;). Let me think, ohh, youre the one at the gate! That does explain your bias. *grins evilly*
Edited by: Tsaya on 17/07/2003 19:04:15
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.07.17 19:30:00 -
[20]
Tsaya - IC humour only my dear, take no notice.
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