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Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1151
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Posted - 2013.02.13 17:03:00 -
[31] - Quote
Nullbear tears are just so much more awesome than high sec miner tears!! "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." -á --- Sorlac |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1141
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 17:34:00 -
[32] - Quote
March rabbit wrote: you only can hide something you already got there.
What? Maybe I will take your "I'm new comment" to mean you have no clue what you are talking about here. Cause honestly that statement literally makes no sense.
March rabbit wrote:I'm new here but i've never heard about 100 person fleets in WH. Did i miss something? Is it connected to mass limit of WH and absense of persisting connections?
Well there are large fleets. But as the next guy said below, that is largely irrelevant as it is all relative. For one you don't need 100 man fleets in WH's to do have the same effect.
Honestly 100 man hot drops aren't something you need in 0.0. It happens cause why not hot drop them if they are sitting around bored. Doesn't change the fact that 5 or 10 would have killed you just the same. |
Gizznitt Malikite
agony unleashed Agony Empire
1797
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 17:35:00 -
[33] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Local is not the issue, and the AFK cloaky campers just make that point in every AFK thread that there is, its to change the subject away from their inability to actually kill anyone. The only change I would make is that they show in local when they actually are in system. At the moment they show in local and there is a delay before they are in system and can warp.
In terms of the people camping your system, have a good look at them, when did they change corps, when did they get on kills etc., with that you may be able to work out when they are actually active. Try to link them to hot droppers, it is important to find out who is their muscle and if you have that you should be able to work out when they are active.
Part of the battle is to continue to operate regardless, just go and buy about 10 Ventures and mine in system, wouldn't that be better then moaning about it? You mine low level ore in High Sec and high level ores in 0.0, use Ventures and industrials to grab the ore and annoy the hell out of them. So you lose a couple of cheap ships, so what!!!!
AFK cloakers are not an issue in iteself, there are two issues coupled to it that make it problematic:
Local: The instantaneous and omniscient local chat as an intel tool is too perfect... It makes the vigilant pilot impossible to catch... and ends up disheartening roaming to the point they'd rather sit on a titan and put afk cloakies in your system...
Cyno's: The ability to light a cyno and drop a pragmatically unscoutable gang of any size, shape, or composition instantly on a target makes countering a "cloaker that's decloaking and attacking" difficult and generally impractical. There are many solutions to this, but most of them make it impractical to hotdrop... which is a mistake.... Hotdrops should exist... The best solution I've heard of is different classes of ships take different amounts of time to "traverse" the bridge... Frigates travel very quickly... BS's arrive much later.... This still isn't perfect, but helps...
In the end.... several things need to change....and I'm not sure afk cloakers need to at all....
A.) Local chat needs to become less ideal.... give it a moderate delay (10-20 seconds) before a person appears in local so they have more of a chance to catch someone...
B.) Nullsec PvE should be modified to encourage more grouping... Reduce bounties, and instead give a solid payout for completing an anomaly... Structure that payout similar to incursions where payouts require a fleet and X number of ships... and less than that dramatically reduces your payout... If you want to solo... belt rat!
If A occurs, I'll support a cloaky prober tool to hunt afk cloakers in your system... so long as it doesn't interfere with a cloaker's ability to traverse gate camps or scout a system... (i.e. a slow scanning (30-60s), combat probe that doesn't decloak a ship, but enables you to warp to their location.... ) |
March rabbit
player corp n1
536
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 20:24:00 -
[34] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:March rabbit wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:Dracvlad wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Collecting nullbear tears in the millionth "waaah a single cloaked neutral prevents our entire system from being able to do anything" thread
Funny how wormhole dwellers can manage without even knowing if a cloaked ship is in their system Funny that , must be something to do with the inability to jump to a lit cyno in WH space, might that be the reason, engage the grey matter and you might just get there! Flip side is you don't need the cyno in WH space. You can easily hide an entire fleet inside the system as local doesn't give you away. you only can hide something you already got there. I'm new here but i've never heard about 100 person fleets in WH. Did i miss something? Is it connected to mass limit of WH and absense of persisting connections? What difference does it make how big the fleet is, pretty much all of these threads pop up as a result of some lone bear getting attacked, or a tiny few (1-5) people getting "camped" in their system by the big bad scary cwoaker - it's not big fleets with hundreds of people that is the issue, since a small fleet can just as easily kill them, it's purely the fact that a fleet can appear out of nowhere without local giving them a huge ridiculous infallible warning. And the risk of fleets materialising out of nowhere is just as big in wormholes, but that doesn't seem to bother us i too don't see any problems of "power projection"... here is high-sec i don't see any blobs/supers/titans/whatever....
i can agree with you - there is no such problems in Eve you don't see ;) |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Saints Amongst Sinners
54
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 20:48:00 -
[35] - Quote
A) I have seen lots of people get caught in 0.0 even with local, only the vigilant are mostly secure, and even they can get caught at times by people who work out alternative strategies or are prepared to go for a long term hunt. Why should the vigilant player be as easy to kill as the inattentive? So what is the point in being skilled then?
Of course I could do the D-scan thing, hell I did that in a NPC 0.0 system where we were fighting for the system, but its not so much the Tengu, or the BS that has an issue but the carrier, now I will be aligned in my carrier aand ready to warp out if I get anything on D-scan or it de-cloaks, but to be blunt it makes pointing a carrier too easy, the only thing I suppose you could say is that it balances off against the AI, but that was too far in the gankers favour before.
B) Well I hate to point out something, but not everyone does CA's solo, we have had fleets doing them when we have campers, in fact having cloaky campers was a benefit for this in my experience. Its just that most people are not prepared to setup for CA's that could turn into a PvP experience, we did that and it was fun, surprisingly enough when we did this we never got hot dropped...
In a nutshell I like it as it is, cloaky campers can drop a ton on you, but you have to manage that risk, my own experience has been that if you keep operating regardless of them being there in cheaper ships and just have fun they soon go off and pester the more weak willed. I really do not think removing instant local when you have instant cyno ability works, but I liked your idea with the cyno taking longer for bigger ships.
In terms of the WH's, I had some idiot suggest to me in another of these threads that WH's was a test for removing local, so it had proved to have worked so now they could apply it to null, so I pointed out that the test was incomplete in that they needed to add cyno ability, at which point a VOC player gave me a mouthful of abuse. And then said what I had effectively said!
The ability collapse wormholes until you get one to enable you to attack someone means that a fleet could be dropped on you at any time, but the attentive player is out there scanning for a new hole. He will have a scout next door ASAP, it is not the same as having to keep tabs on every system around you which is in bridging range and of course you get a warning as they warp to the WH and jump through. Moving into position will give you away, unless they have moved to the WH as soon as they found it and cloaked up, which I guess is what the better WH groups do. As I said better skilled players working hard for their advantage.
So as such, I think the idea of a 10 to 20 second delay makes it too easy, I suggested that local only show when people actually arrive in system, which would be better, but any more than that makes it not worth while. It gets to the point where you will not use a carrier as the risk is too great, so you might as well do incursions in HS, and then someone will be calling for them to be nerfed again... The cricle of gaining advantage for you own point of view, but for me, the fun is using my own abilities not to get caught and I can tell you that attentively watching local after a couple of hours of carrier ratting is damn hard.
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Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
945
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 20:53:00 -
[36] - Quote
I live in nullsec and constantly experience both sides of the cloaky-f.a.g afk camper issue. We are regularly camped 24/7 in our busier and pipeline systems, and we regularly camp nearby non-blue systems and regions.
Such camping is an entirely appropriate and reasonable tool employing a valid ingame dynamic. It is not something that needs to be GÇÿfixedGÇÖ, itGÇÖs just people using normal ingame mechanics to achieve some sort of goal GÇô sick and perverse as that goal may appear to the victims. The best approach for the OP would probably be to leave nullsec and return to the safety of hisec mission running or mining, not to join the horde of incompetents whining to CCP to GÇÿfixGÇÖ something that is not broken.
Different people respond to afk-cloaky- f.a.g campers in different ways:
- We currently have a few longtimers in our home system and a couple of the next-door systems. These guys are pretty well completely ignored. Perhaps one day weGÇÖll get too complacent and theyGÇÖll hotdrop a humunga-gang on some lazy ratter, perhaps.
- I recently camped BR1CK geminate for a solid week. Those guys just abused me in local a bit, tried to bait-trap me a few times, and simply moved their activities elsewhere via their jump-bridge network.
- Some of our guys have essentially ignored campers in our busy ratting systems, and have lost expensive blinged-out ratting pirate battleships as a result. The same applies to some of our neighbours whoGÇÖve grown a bit complacent while weGÇÖre camping them.
- Some people find the going a bit tough in nullsec and move back to hisec GÇô this was the case the first time I ventured into null, except I moved to w-space. Others whine for CCP to change everything so they do not have to learn how to play eve.
IMHO AFK-Cloaky-f.a.g-campers are heroes! Anyone who would eschew a week or more of ratting income to psycho-grief a bunch of retards is a dedicated and seriously disturbed individual. I like that in a person. Conversely anyone who sees forum-whining as being the way to respond to a wee little solo cloaky-camper GǪ well, I guess they kinda get what they deserve in the end.
We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
Cage Man
164
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 21:38:00 -
[37] - Quote
Vas Eldryn wrote:couldn't have said it better,
bring the fight... AFK warfare why people are staying out of null
Very wrong... I stay out of Null because whenever you look for some small scale pvp the opposition drops a cap fleet on your ass.. even if you in a drake... and off course all the politics that comes with belong to a sov holding alliances.. ie.. you can't rat there..thats for me cause I am the alliance leader.. you can't harvest that moon but you better damn well protect it in a ship I dictate how you will fit and if you lucky we compensate you for your loss...
Oh PLEASE!!! CCP Fozzie Can I haz a Navy moa....... |
Henri Ducard
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 23:45:00 -
[38] - Quote
There is a counter..................its called a cyno jammer. |
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
948
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 00:21:00 -
[39] - Quote
Henri Ducard wrote:There is a counter..................its called a cyno jammer.
ya, but that'd involve effort and competence .... much easier to forum-whine for CCP to 'fix'.
Anyways a jammer only keeps a subset of hotdroppers off ya case GǪ altho a lot of people still learn that fact the hard way. It takes a little more effort (reduced range atm, more restrictive fleet comp, and more demanding fuel/logistics support) to hotdrop into a cyno-jammed system, but the name of that module can be quite misleading in the end. Cyno jammers jam GÇÿvanillaGÇÖ cynos, but not covert cynos.
We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
Net Malone
Royal Production LTD
3
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 06:11:00 -
[40] - Quote
"AFK warfare", "Offline warfare" - this is realy awasome ! Not many games gives you so many oportunities for playing game :)
But to the point:
Topic started with problem with camping cloakers - they kind of abuse cloaking mechanism... So recipe is: remove local ! Give cloakers more power ! :> Realy, logical conclusion somewhere here
Thing isn't about security, it's about balance of player possibilities. And this is nowhere near "center" point. One cloaker kill few kinds of activities of many ppls in particular solar system. So I say: do not remove local ! Rather give new scanner probes requiring, let say, 5 scanning ships with 4 probes each allowing to scan someone being cloaked seence 1h without moving...
More! Possible all that industry corner is second class citizen... Eg. try to fit freighter - very balanced :>
EVE realy need mechanism for protecting big investmens like stations building, IMO.
-- Net
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Fearghaz Tiwas
ZOMBIEBEACHPARTYPATROL Circle-Of-Two
2
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 11:30:00 -
[41] - Quote
i'm really not all waaa afk cloaking needs to stop. An afk cloaker has even impacted on my funtime as recently as Wednesday.
It was inconvenient, but surprisingly my life didn't grind to a halt. If, and I do mean if, anything is to be done it should not touch local. Delaying local will have nowhere near the desired effect your expecting, and if anything it would make things worse.
Now a specific type of probe that will put you on grid with the cloaker, but within say, 50km (literally plucking that out of my arse so don't get hung up on that) then its up to the cloaker to pay attention to make sure they don't get de-cloaked. That seems fairly balanced to me, unless I'm missing something.
At the end of the day though, it's null sec. It isn't up to anyone bar yourself and your friends to keep yourselves safe. Making widesweeping changes to game mechanics shouldn't happen in order to make null sec safer, if anything the opposite should be the case.
I do kinda like the idea of things taking longer to jump through too. People in null should be able to group together enough to pop some of the initial frigs as they come through before the big stuff. I dunno, I've gone on enough now |
Arathella
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet Yulai Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 00:31:00 -
[42] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:Nullbear tears are just so much more awesome than high sec miner tears!! And if CCP were to change the mechanics to make afk camping a bit more challenging we would be drowned in the afk camperbear tears. |
Arathella
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet Yulai Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 00:49:00 -
[43] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
AFK cloakers are not an issue in iteself, there are two issues coupled to it that make it problematic:
Local: The instantaneous and omniscient local chat as an intel tool is too perfect... It makes the vigilant pilot impossible to catch... and ends up disheartening roaming to the point they'd rather sit on a titan and put afk cloakies in your system...
Cyno's: The ability to light a cyno and drop a pragmatically unscoutable gang of any size, shape, or composition instantly on a target makes countering a "cloaker that's decloaking and attacking" difficult and generally impractical. There are many solutions to this, but most of them make it impractical to hotdrop... which is a mistake.... Hotdrops should exist... The best solution I've heard of is different classes of ships take different amounts of time to "traverse" the bridge... Frigates travel very quickly... BS's arrive much later.... This still isn't perfect, but helps...
In the end.... several things need to change....and I'm not sure afk cloakers need to at all....
A.) Local chat needs to become less ideal.... give it a moderate delay (10-20 seconds) before a person appears in local so they have more of a chance to catch someone...
B.) Nullsec PvE should be modified to encourage more grouping... Reduce bounties, and instead give a solid payout for completing an anomaly... Structure that payout similar to incursions where payouts require a fleet and X number of ships... and less than that dramatically reduces your payout... If you want to solo... belt rat!
If A occurs, I'll support a cloaky prober tool to hunt afk cloakers in your system... so long as it doesn't interfere with a cloaker's ability to traverse gate camps or scout a system... (i.e. a slow scanning (30-60s), combat probe that doesn't decloak a ship, but enables you to warp to their location.... )
AFK cloakers are as much of an issue as Local and Cyno because no game mechanic should encorage/reward a play style based on AFK. Imo changes to Local are warranted but they have to be balanced with afk cloaking. E.g. make a pilot disappear from Local in 1-2 minutes after cloaking. So if the locals missed that 1-2 window the cloaker gets adequate advantage to mount a surprise attack. On the other hand if the cloaker goes AFK the ship automatically decloaks after say 30 minutes and the pilot appears back in Local.
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Knorkor
Spartan Advanced Mining Infinite Aggression
15
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 17:07:00 -
[44] - Quote
The problem is the cyno. I would not care much about the cloaky, it is rather the fact that he can drop any number of enemies right next to you that he sees fit and there is nothing you can do about it. If you try to fight it, he drops more people on you, if he is from a big ally. That can escalate pretty quick into really big battles that can destroy your whole system if sh*t hits the fan.
Basically a cyno is a wormhole right? So why not limit the mass that can jump through, like normal wormholes? This would at least make the fight somewhat predictable. Of course there would be need for a rule that not like 10 other cynos can come through. But this would give smaller allys the chance to fight a hotdropper.
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Cephelange du'Krevviq
Hephaestus LLC Get Off My Lawn
130
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 17:21:00 -
[45] - Quote
So tired of this popping up time after time.
If they are AFK, guess what - they can't ******* hurt you! If they aren't AFK, then they are playing a patient waiting game. It's called metagaming and psychological warfare. They camp your popular systems day after day until you get used to them being there and presume they're AFK. That's when they pounce.
If you allow them to keep you docked up, then that is your call.
As a couple people mentioned, the vigilant don't generally get caught.
There's also another option - have a defensive fleet out with your miners; what a concept - a group effort. "My hotdrop was bigger."
"Accidental cyno best cyno." |
St1ngerella
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 19:35:00 -
[46] - Quote
****** black legion fleets running away from gudfites is taking the fight out of the game. |
Sjugar
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
58
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 23:17:00 -
[47] - Quote
The only thing that needs to change is that Cloaking can still be done, but not afk. After 30 minutes of non-activity accounts should be logged out.
Quite a technical challenge though. |
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Hephaestus LLC Get Off My Lawn
130
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 00:34:00 -
[48] - Quote
Sjugar wrote:The only thing that needs to change is that Cloaking can still be done, but not afk. After 30 minutes of non-activity accounts should be logged out.
In a word - No.
In a few more words - whether you like the system or not, it is not a broken mechanic. You don't get to be "safe" in null (and I say this as a nullsec resident).
I, personally, have things I'd rather do with my time and account than park a character "AFK" in a hostile system for hours and days on end. That doesn't mean I don't see the value in it being an option. "My hotdrop was bigger."
"Accidental cyno best cyno." |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
989
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 08:41:00 -
[49] - Quote
Sjugar wrote:The only thing that needs to change is that Cloaking can still be done, but not afk. After 30 minutes of non-activity accounts should be logged out.
Quite a technical challenge though.
What reason is there for this, other than "waaaa I want to be a carebear in 0.0"?
Go back to highsec |
Speedkermit Damo
Callide Vulpis Curatores Veritatis Alliance
31
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 14:11:00 -
[50] - Quote
Sjugar wrote:You don't get to be "safe" in null (and I say this as a nullsec resident
Unless you're a cloaky afk camper.
if someone wants to afk cloaky camp a system for days or weeks on end, then that's fine. But there should at least be some risk of that player finding a wreck and a corpse floating in space when they do eventually return to their keyboard. Don't Panic.
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Zap Zarrap
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 15:18:00 -
[51] - Quote
seems like theres really the bunch of players who deem "being AFK" actually "playing the game"... how can being"away from the keyboard" mean you are actually playing the game.
does that mean all the guys on this forum in this very moment who are not even logged in (not active in the game) are still playing the game too ??
so much for being AFK and playing the game. people complain about bots (who are actually playing, even tjhough they are not humans... still are doing something) and how they ruin the game, but being afk for 23/7 and cloaked is totally fine. weird.
what I also dont get is why those uber skilled cloaky pilots go on a forum rage about proposals for modules or ways to decloak inactive cloaky ships. same argument can be made that is always brought up to the null bears in this exact same thread. adapt or die. but dont whine. if you cannot react when d-scan shows they are coming for you or even stay aligned, then go back to highsec. well if not even those skilled cloaky heroes cannot even adapt to probes that will only get you when you are stationary, then it has to be them most cary idea ever....
that this module and tactic would require teamwork and time and effort to get those cloakies, thus providing real content, is ignored.
oh and btw: the idea for diffrent cyn speeds for different ship classes is not bad. combine that with a mass limit on the total number of ships getting cynoed and you have something. so you either jump loads of smallish stuff, or a few bigger ones. your choice because the next cyno takes a while to light up... (spool timer as well) oh .. the large alliances can still do thier 300 fleet **** because they have the number of titans to do it. but smaller corps dont pose such a gigantic threat anyomore and dont have that mig advantage anymore over thecorporations that dont quiet have the same numbers but lack the titan.
is really the biggest joke of it all that you can basically only do real pvp when and if you have the ability to bridge your fleets over vast distances. in some areas of space (so ive heard) roaming fleets are essentially dead. gatecamps are only to buy time to hotdrop. not to do actual gatecamping anymore. small pvp in the overall aspect has alsmost dminished. what a waste of content....but thats another story
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Dracvlad
Saints Among Sinners Executive Outcomes
55
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 20:40:00 -
[52] - Quote
At the moment the New Order is doing a campaign against AFK mining, perhaps they should also do a campaign against AFK cloaky camping, as in fact they are the same, both are playing the game but not playing the game. Personally I see a cloaky AFK camper as being the same as a AFK miner, perhaps one of you cloaky AFK camper types could explain to me the difference as I cannot see it? |
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Hephaestus LLC Get Off My Lawn
130
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 21:28:00 -
[53] - Quote
Speedkermit Damo wrote:Sjugar wrote:You don't get to be "safe" in null (and I say this as a nullsec resident Unless you're a cloaky afk camper. if someone wants to afk cloaky camp a system for days or weeks on end, then that's fine. But there should at least be some risk of that player finding a wreck and a corpse floating in space when they do eventually return to their keyboard.
Not like CVA undocks without at least 3 to 1 odds, anyway.
Oh, and -1 for quoting the wrong person.
Zap- the only person I see coming close to forum raging is you. Some of you seem unable or unwilling to grasp the simple fact that a person that is AFK....wait for it...can't hurt you. At all. If they are AFK, the only impact they have on your operations is what you allow them to have. "My hotdrop was bigger."
"Accidental cyno best cyno." |
Valea Silpha
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
89
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 23:17:00 -
[54] - Quote
Many years ago when i lived in Feyth, we had a hostile dude in an Arazu who would hang out in our station system. Every now and again, his friends would be close to hand, and he'd go and tackle something and try and kill them. We used to take bets on who could kill him the most times.
Look... The thing to remember is that the tactics you people want done away with have some pretty severe limitations. For example, a guy cannot both point you AND light a cyno. It's an either/or. Assuming you stay calm, stay aligned and run like hell, you won't have much of a problem. Your activities will still be curtailed, but after a little while of being blueballed, the campers will move on.
You're being targeted because you're acting like victims, making it easy for the campers to get what they want: Your sweet impotent rage. You could man up and beat the guys who are dropping on you. It can't be too hard to work out when the enemy are active and likely to drop, and even where they are operating out of (max jump range is a known variable, and the map will tell you average pilots in space). With those two together, you can trap them and kill them all. Set a neutral scout to run through the appropriate system, that will give you their numbers. Experience will give you their ship types. Then you plan your **** out, call an op, send out some bait and when they take it... murder time. Call some friends if you need numbers, you have time to plan. You kick the **** out of them once, they will think better of it. And remember, you don't even need to fight it if you don't think you can win. You can have your scout give you a looksee and if you can take it, you go do it.
Btw... The OP better be talking about titan bridges. Because lord help him if he can't get his **** out his hand long enough to work out how to beat on a black ops bridge gang that doesn't have logistics or any buffer. |
Shanara As
Psy Corp Ltd.
574
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 06:52:00 -
[55] - Quote
Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote:Speedkermit Damo wrote:Sjugar wrote:You don't get to be "safe" in null (and I say this as a nullsec resident Unless you're a cloaky afk camper. if someone wants to afk cloaky camp a system for days or weeks on end, then that's fine. But there should at least be some risk of that player finding a wreck and a corpse floating in space when they do eventually return to their keyboard. Not like CVA undocks without at least 3 to 1 odds, anyway. Oh, and -1 for quoting the wrong person. Zap- the only person I see coming close to forum raging is you. Some of you seem unable or unwilling to grasp the simple fact that a person that is AFK....wait for it...can't hurt you. At all. If they are AFK, the only impact they have on your operations is what you allow them to have.
i dont htink hes in rage. he is merely stating facts (at least the way i see it). the difference between an afk cloaky and one that simply waits for his turn is what ? exactly. you never know. so how are you going to adapt ?
unless you have a constant "support squad" at the ready (which is of course needed and often ready but c-¦mon.. not 23/7...also sme systems you do ratting / indy stuff in are fairly remote (at least three jumps out) there-¦s no chance to tell.
i have the utmost respect for any player that does the "fake afk thingy" to simply dull the enemy up until the point he can strike. but who really uses this kind of tactic ? either only the very masochistic or the very enthusiastic and dedicated people.
at least i can bump an afk hauler / miner and see if he-¦s really afk by provoking a reaction... but theres simply no way to interact with someone who-¦s afk, cloaked and not at all detectable...
so, I would vote , too, for : not necessarly broken, but not great mechanic.
also, the proposition made my some (and Zap) about the chance to detect at least afk cloakies simply got ignored. which wouldnt hurt the dedicated cloaker in any bit... "Gotta spend money to make money" "A fool talks, a wise man listens" "He who doesn-¦t wanna listen, talks the most"
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Shanara As
Psy Corp Ltd.
574
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Posted - 2013.02.20 06:54:00 -
[56] - Quote
Valea Silpha wrote:Many years ago when i lived in Feyth, we had a hostile dude in an Arazu who would hang out in our station system. Every now and again, his friends would be close to hand, and he'd go and tackle something and try and kill them. We used to take bets on who could kill him the most times.
Look... The thing to remember is that the tactics you people want done away with have some pretty severe limitations. For example, a guy cannot both point you AND light a cyno. It's an either/or. Assuming you stay calm, stay aligned and run like hell, you won't have much of a problem. Your activities will still be curtailed, but after a little while of being blueballed, the campers will move on.
You're being targeted because you're acting like victims, making it easy for the campers to get what they want: Your sweet impotent rage. You could man up and beat the guys who are dropping on you. It can't be too hard to work out when the enemy are active and likely to drop, and even where they are operating out of (max jump range is a known variable, and the map will tell you average pilots in space). With those two together, you can trap them and kill them all. Set a neutral scout to run through the appropriate system, that will give you their numbers. Experience will give you their ship types. Then you plan your **** out, call an op, send out some bait and when they take it... murder time. Call some friends if you need numbers, you have time to plan. You kick the **** out of them once, they will think better of it. And remember, you don't even need to fight it if you don't think you can win. You can have your scout give you a looksee and if you can take it, you go do it.
Btw... The OP better be talking about titan bridges. Because lord help him if he can't get his **** out his hand long enough to work out how to beat on a black ops bridge gang that doesn't have logistics or any buffer.
good point about the either / or...
I still see a problem with the cyno-mechanic as it is. mass limits and maybe even jump limits / jump speeds for different classes might still be needed. otherwise you never know what you are standing up against.. not even close. it might be a gang of 20...or a gang of 250.. pretty big difference if you ask me....
"Gotta spend money to make money" "A fool talks, a wise man listens" "He who doesn-¦t wanna listen, talks the most"
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TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
991
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Posted - 2013.02.20 12:58:00 -
[57] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:At the moment the New Order is doing a campaign against AFK mining, perhaps they should also do a campaign against AFK cloaky camping, as in fact they are the same, both are playing the game but not playing the game. Personally I see a cloaky AFK camper as being the same as a AFK miner, perhaps one of you cloaky AFK camper types could explain to me the difference as I cannot see it?
AFK cloakers do not make isk, or inject minerals into the market, or anything else. They also inherently accept the idea of risk because they're in low/null sec.
Not an issue related to the New Orders goals at all. |
Dracvlad
Saints Among Sinners Executive Outcomes
55
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Posted - 2013.02.20 13:06:00 -
[58] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:At the moment the New Order is doing a campaign against AFK mining, perhaps they should also do a campaign against AFK cloaky camping, as in fact they are the same, both are playing the game but not playing the game. Personally I see a cloaky AFK camper as being the same as a AFK miner, perhaps one of you cloaky AFK camper types could explain to me the difference as I cannot see it? AFK cloakers do not make isk, or inject minerals into the market, or anything else. They also inherently accept the idea of risk because they're in low/null sec. Not an issue related to the New Orders goals at all.
They do make ISK, they extort ISK from the locals, but are away from their keyboard, and while cloaked they are not at risk, simple as, many of the arguments I have seen used by the New Order apply to them too! While AFK they are not playing the game and while cloaked they are not at risk, simple as! |
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Hephaestus LLC Get Off My Lawn
130
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Posted - 2013.02.20 13:22:00 -
[59] - Quote
How does someone that is AFK extort ISK from the locals? I need to learn how to do that. "My hotdrop was bigger."
"Accidental cyno best cyno." |
Onomerous
Shockwave Innovations Shockwave Sovereign Industries
0
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Posted - 2013.02.20 13:31:00 -
[60] - Quote
Here to prove it is a problem: I was killed by AFK cloakers!! Wait... if they were AFK how could they kill me? If they weren't AFK then it is completely legit.
What was the problem again? ;) |
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