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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 31 post(s) |
Wescro
Tash-Murkon Amalgamated Security
247
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Posted - 2013.02.12 19:58:00 -
[451] - Quote
Borlag Crendraven wrote:On top of that Kelduums most recent comments that CCP's treated uni badly for ages and intentionally introduced bugs and features that harm them are downright hilarious. How out of touch can one person really be?
Do you have a link to these comments? James 315-á-áis the only pro-sandbox candidate running for CSM 8. Resist the theme-park invasion from dying MMOs like WoW! Keep the only sandbox MMO alive! Vote 315 4 CSM8!!! |
Borlag Crendraven
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
265
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Posted - 2013.02.12 19:59:00 -
[452] - Quote
Wescro wrote:Borlag Crendraven wrote:On top of that Kelduums most recent comments that CCP's treated uni badly for ages and intentionally introduced bugs and features that harm them are downright hilarious. How out of touch can one person really be? Do you have a link to these comments? http://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtopic.php?p=559364&f=28#p559364 |
baltec1
Bat Country
5169
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:03:00 -
[453] - Quote
Re: Re: 317B ISK Gone from E-UNI: Who Watches The Watchmen?
Terra Infector Adoudel wrote:
Kerplakershtat Rova wrote:What I don't understand is why they'd take it away from a teaching institution. Anything else I could understand, but this sort of seems counter-productive.
E-Uni is treated the same as any other corp. Actually, E-UNI has historically been treated pretty badly by CCP, although probably not on purpose.
From expansions that break things, them 'stealing' our public channel by making it official (which totally broke it for some time) to broken API things and bugs with titles, not to mention the changes to wardec mechanics which were supposed to fix loopholes but in fact made things worse.
In fact, Retribution was the first expansion in years (as long back as I can recall) that didn't break something important to E-UNI. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
2984
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:05:00 -
[454] - Quote
You know what's really funny is that I've been really frustrated by the idea that E-Uni was basically a CCP sanctioned, endorsed, and preferentially treated corporation for the last few years. And now he says CCP has it in for them?
******* mind boggling.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Violet Giraffe
Space Giraffes
11
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:08:00 -
[455] - Quote
ISBoxer is allowed? Is that confirmed by CCP? Sorry for offtopic. |
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:08:00 -
[456] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:You know what's really funny is that I've been really frustrated by the idea that E-Uni was basically a CCP sanctioned, endorsed, and preferentially treated corporation for the last few years. And now he says CCP has it in for them?
******* mind boggling.
-Liang
You know what else is frustrating?
Having a pro botting CSM member.
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baltec1
Bat Country
5172
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:08:00 -
[457] - Quote
Im sorry but the more he speaks the more I want his head on a spike. My CSM choice was removed for far less and made no fuss like this guy. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
603
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:08:00 -
[458] - Quote
Nemo deBlanc wrote:If he created what was effectively his own UI, CCP is foolish to ban someone for improving on the pile of **** they've created.
Seems to me instead of banning the guy CCP should have hired him to fix the Market & LP store UI's
Ripard Teg-á for CSM 8 |
Jonah Gravenstein
Gordian Knot Holdings
5610
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:09:00 -
[459] - Quote
Seems like Eve Uni is all about Eve Uni and sod everyone else, the changes that affected them weren't unique to them, with the exception of the public channel. API bugs, war dec bugs, title bugs etc affect everybody not just them.
Violet Giraffe wrote:ISBoxer is allowed? Is that confirmed by CCP? Sorry for offtopic.
ISBoxer is allowed as long as there is someone at the keyboard physically playing the game. It's merely a framework for multiboxing, however it can be used in conjunction with other software as the basis for bots, that's when it becomes not ok to use.
If it looks like a bot, smells like a bot and acts like a bot, 99% of the time it is a bot. I am Ohm of Borg, Resistance is Voltage/Current. |
Whitehound
769
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:09:00 -
[460] - Quote
Yvsyvs wrote:Katran Luftschreck wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:That is the problem right there. He was using tools which allowed him to rapidly perform actions faster than he otherwise would have been able to on his own. This is covered in the EULA. So pretty much any South Korean Statcraft player is doomed to face false charges and banning, then. Lovely. Exactly this! I have no clue if this guy was really boting, but who decides what is humanly possible? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVEvwNbeK6Ihttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-ofosFtuqs, If only market PvP was this challenging then you had a point, but it is not. It is a very repetitive number game and managing 300 market orders in 10-20 minutes is not anywhere close to being comparable to what you can see in those two videos. SCAM CAT - Titan Jump - I was there - Goon Dog |
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Dante Uisen
Push button receive bacon
22
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:09:00 -
[461] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:An hour ago I thought calls for Kel to resign were a bit over the top. Reading that thread you linked, I am no longer of that opinion.
I was thinking the same, after all the CSM was founded to prevent CCP employ's from using their position at CCP to interfere with the game. If there was any truth to the claim that team security was removing isk of banning people wrongfully for boting, it would be something the csm should look into.
The more you read about the person, the more it seem like he is just using the power he was given for his own needs. I wonder how he would have looked at the situation if the 300B had not been donated to eve-uni, it's looking more and more like all he really cared about was getting the isk.
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Din Chao
175
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:10:00 -
[462] - Quote
Violet Giraffe wrote:ISBoxer is allowed? Is that confirmed by CCP? Sorry for offtopic. Yes. It's allowed. |
baltec1
Bat Country
5173
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:14:00 -
[463] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Seems like Eve Uni is all about Eve Uni and sod everyone else, the changes that affected them weren't unique to them, with the exception of the public channel. API bugs, war dec bugs, title bugs etc affect everybody not just them. Violet Giraffe wrote:ISBoxer is allowed? Is that confirmed by CCP? Sorry for offtopic. ISBoxer is allowed as long as there is someone at the keyboard physically playing the game. It's merely a framework for multiboxing, however it can be used in conjunction with other software as the basis for bots, that's when it becomes not ok to use.
About that help channel.
Quote:
Kelduum Revaan:
The public channel was done without our knowledge or consent - apparently someone within CCP decided that we should be listed in the help channels, with all the spam and so on that comes with it, and for a time, we even had no moderator access to the channel
.
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
296
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:15:00 -
[464] - Quote
Wescro wrote:I regret starting this thread. Please stop posting here. The matter seems resolved to me. Cheers CCP Sreegs. Don't. This thread is full of win. And CCP Screegs got lots of likes having a busy day on the forums .
As far as E-Uni leadership is concerned, you couldn't expect anything else really. Remove insurance. |
Xenuria
Marcabian 5th Invasion Fleet
723
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:15:00 -
[465] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:There are a number of things wrong with the assertions being made in other forums, which is a topic I'm sure the author of these posts is familiar with because we discussed them prior to his rather selective reporting of the incident. Here's the facts as we need be concerned from an eve perspective:
1) John was botting. That is not even close to in dispute. 2) We committed an error in not removing the isk before it got to EVE-U. However we did rectify this problem and our logs show that it was discussed and approved prior to either them receiving the isk or petitioning. We apologized to EVE-U however the petition was escalated as high as it could be and the decision remained. We cannot typically share this information with them as it's really none of their business. 3) The only authority higher than the Director of Security for these complaints is the Executive Producer and then the CEO. This is a higher level of escalation than the Customer Service arm and IA automatically looks at our work. I'm not sure why we feel we should be able to escalate higher than the highest reasonable authority but the fact is that this team operates with significant oversight. We believe the issue here to be more that this particular CSM feels he isn't in the loop, something which is quite frankly the only proper way to do business in a unit that handles secrets.
Frankly we're a bit disturbed by the allegations made here given that the person in question waited until they exhausted every resource possible prior to posting this then lamented the lack of an escalation path. Not getting the answer you like isn't a lack of an escalation path and never will be.
M-M-M-MONSTER KILL CSM 8 Candidate Philanthropist Polymath Savant Hero |
Finde learth
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
30
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:16:00 -
[466] - Quote
Violet Giraffe wrote:ISBoxer is allowed? Is that confirmed by CCP? Sorry for offtopic. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1291641&page=10#274 |
Sir SmashAlot
The League of Extraordinary Opportunists Intergalactic Conservation Movement
6
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:17:00 -
[467] - Quote
Learning that a trading bot was smashed with the banhammer warms my heart.
I would love to see a feature like:
BAN OF THE WEEK Trade Bot 317 Billion
Short posts or tweets would make the day of many players. It would also reinforce the idea that persistent enforcement against illegal behaviour is regularly being done.
Thank You.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Gordian Knot Holdings
5610
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:20:00 -
[468] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Quote:
Kelduum Revaan:
The public channel was done without our knowledge or consent - apparently someone within CCP decided that we should be listed in the help channels, with all the spam and so on that comes with it, and for a time, we even had no moderator access to the channel
.
Oh wait, the channel was public anyway?
In today's news a public channel is public, huge controversy, more at 10
If it looks like a bot, smells like a bot and acts like a bot, 99% of the time it is a bot. I am Ohm of Borg, Resistance is Voltage/Current. |
Whitehound
769
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:20:00 -
[469] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:Wescro wrote:I regret starting this thread. Please stop posting here. The matter seems resolved to me. Cheers CCP Sreegs. Don't. This thread is full of win. And CCP Screegs got lots of likes having a busy day on the forums . As far as E-Uni leadership is concerned, you couldn't expect anything else really. Regarding CCP Sreegs' Likes am I waiting for his statistics to update. It will be entertaining to watch. SCAM CAT - Titan Jump - I was there - Goon Dog |
Mai Khumm
Carbon Circle Tactical Narcotics Team
448
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:20:00 -
[470] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Borlag Crendraven wrote: E-UNI itself is important and good overall for both the newbies the game itself, but its management rising themselves to a pedestal thinking they're untouchable simply needs to stop.
The OLD E-Uni (back in 2007-2008?) was a good and helpful organization. The new one... not so much. IMO. -Liang The new EVE-UNI is stupidly overcomplicated to get in. And when you bend over backwards to meet their requirements, you get rejected because you've met the requirements.
That, was a very interesting conversation... *insert witty saying here* twitter - @AzamiNevinyrall |
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Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:24:00 -
[471] - Quote
Mai Khumm wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Borlag Crendraven wrote: E-UNI itself is important and good overall for both the newbies the game itself, but its management rising themselves to a pedestal thinking they're untouchable simply needs to stop.
The OLD E-Uni (back in 2007-2008?) was a good and helpful organization. The new one... not so much. IMO. -Liang The new EVE-UNI is stupidly overcomplicated to get in. And when you bend over backwards to meet their requirements, you get rejected because you've met the requirements. That, was a very interesting conversation...
Is Eve Uni now just a vehicle and tool for its leadership to grab power in Eve?
All signs point towards------------> Yes
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Google Voices
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
29
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:24:00 -
[472] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Beckie DeLey wrote:A step in the right direction. Now if only they'd punish more people "playing" like this. While i applaud that something is done to people macroing all over the market, it is not really defendible why this guy has to go when The Wis (and others like him) and his macro army can stay. Because ISboxer is allowed.
Of course Isboxer is allowed, how can CCP continue it's ALT proliferation without it? The average player only has one or 2 computers available at most, so running more than a couple of accounts isn't really easy without it.
However the general populace would look at that and say....How is that not cheating? The software is translating user input into a multi-client system, sending the identical input to a number of clients.
"3.You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play."
How does this not fall under patterns of play? A single person is operating a massive army, and it's not possible without the software....You can't run 20 accounts as efficiently by yourself can you?
What it comes down to is money, CCP is only concerned about profit, and the rules only apply when they are in their favor.
Welcome to the hot business plan, sell your customers hundreds of accounts, let them pay for them with in game currency, and depend on a small number of people spending lots of real money on plex, to support their gaming addiction.
Well played CCP, well played....
"Fozzie could not comment on when this issue would be resolved and stated that GÇ£one day Veritas will come up to me and say GÇÿhey I fixed off-grid boostingGÇÖGÇ¥, but he had no idea on a potential timeframe for this sort of miracle." |
sembur
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
6
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:25:00 -
[473] - Quote
http://community.eveonline.com/pnp/eula.asp 6.a.3
Quote:You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game. emphasis mine
tl;dr Hey Cache Scrapers: There is a line. Don't cross it. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3811
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:26:00 -
[474] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Im sorry but the more he speaks the more I want his head on a spike. My CSM choice was removed for far less and made no fuss like this guy.
Your CSM choice proved to be unable to be worth a public position by being weak enough to:
1) Get drunk and then talk public statements. Not even knowing how much alcohol he could bear before going nuts.
2) Treaten somebody in RL, which for now is somewhat worse than cheating in a game.
3) Act all high and mighty about it till he got "CCP nuked" into obliivion and peer pressure forced to public excuses and resignation.
This is also why elections and indirect democracy became a farce over time: influential / rich / with a clapping mob people get zerg-voted into positions of power and then do disasters. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Mai Khumm
Carbon Circle Tactical Narcotics Team
448
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:32:00 -
[475] - Quote
Sariah Kion wrote:Mai Khumm wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Borlag Crendraven wrote: E-UNI itself is important and good overall for both the newbies the game itself, but its management rising themselves to a pedestal thinking they're untouchable simply needs to stop.
The OLD E-Uni (back in 2007-2008?) was a good and helpful organization. The new one... not so much. IMO. -Liang The new EVE-UNI is stupidly overcomplicated to get in. And when you bend over backwards to meet their requirements, you get rejected because you've met the requirements. That, was a very interesting conversation... Is Eve Uni now just a vehicle and tool for its leadership to grab power in Eve? All signs point towards------------> Yes I have to agree with you obvious forum alt #7535746-d8 *insert witty saying here* twitter - @AzamiNevinyrall |
Judas Lonestar
Wormbro Ocularis Inferno
21
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:33:00 -
[476] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Wescro wrote:Maybe my impression is incorrect here, but I was imagining his "in-game browser script" to not be very different from how EVE-Central calculates profitable trade items for haulers. The reason I say that is arbitrary is because if you stretch it, simply opening a notepad and writing down "buy x units of y" could be considered Quote:...patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency... Now if he was automating keypresses and clicks, then I guess we can all agree it was wrong. But simply using a third party script that doesn't interact with the client, aka doesn't play the game for him, that should be ok. It was allowing him to update 30 market order per minute for up to 20 minutes per day. No person can do that unassisted. His ban was justified as he was basically botting.
You cant, therefore no one can.
Gotchya.
For the record, I dont have a dog in this fight. Banned or not....Wont change what or how I fly. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
2991
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:35:00 -
[477] - Quote
Judas Lonestar wrote: You cant, therefore no one can.
Gotchya.
He admits to writing a program to help him do speed up his market orders. CCP bans him for botting. He provides the source code to CCP. CCP says he was botting.
I'm not sure why we're discussing this?
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1352
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:36:00 -
[478] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Judas Lonestar wrote: You cant, therefore no one can.
Gotchya.
He admits to writing a program to help him do speed up his market orders. CCP bans him for botting. He provides the source code to CCP. CCP says he was botting. I'm not sure why we're discussing this? -Liang
Because of Falcon?
Damn sry, though this was 2011, never mind.
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baltec1
Bat Country
5176
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:36:00 -
[479] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:baltec1 wrote:Im sorry but the more he speaks the more I want his head on a spike. My CSM choice was removed for far less and made no fuss like this guy. Your CSM choice proved to be unable to be worth a public position by being weak enough to: 1) Get drunk and then talk public statements. Not even knowing how much alcohol he could bear before going nuts. 2) Treaten somebody in RL, which for now is somewhat worse than cheating in a game. 3) Act all high and mighty about it till he got "CCP nuked" into obliivion and peer pressure forced to public excuses and resignation. This is also why elections and indirect democracy became a farce over time: influential / rich / with a clapping mob people get zerg-voted into positions of power and then do disasters.
It wasnt a threat it was a joke. A very bad one that even the most tasteless goon cringed at. But at least he had the excuse of being blind drunk in a wizard hat adressing other drunken neckbeards.
This however is someone atempting to get their grubby mits on botted isk and is willing to drag the names of people at CCP through the mud with lies to get it. |
Karbowiak
4M-CORP Raiden.
91
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:37:00 -
[480] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Dante Uisen wrote:Vera Algaert wrote:I'm very sure that you can't modify 30 orders within a minute - whether with macros or by hand. You can use the in-game browser to display market data, which makes it a trivial task to write software that detects when you need to update you orders. All you need to do is use javascript to cycle trough the item you want to sell, this updates the local cache which you can parse to get the items sell prices. From there on all you need to do is verify the weather or not you have the lowest price. You can list the correct price need to undercut by .1 isk, or maybe even manipulate the copy/paste buffer directly to contain the correct value. In the end all you need to do is find the correct order, edit and paste the value. It probably takes more then 2 sec for reach order, but you can do a lot of orders each minute. This is a public know and legal way of managing market orders. I would not recommend anyone do this and I'd ask that you not tell our players what you consider to be legal. The EULA does a decent enough job of that and is contrary to your statement.
Did you just outlaw:
1. using the cache files to get information 2. using javascript to alter the paste buffer 3. regular use of the IGB javascript functions
Cause it sure as hell sounds like it.
Doing any of these things aren't illegal according to the EULA, but i guess using your own tools to give ourselves an advantage in these kind of situations, is botting. |
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