Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 27 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 31 post(s) |
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:58:00 -
[601] - Quote
Nikolai Lachance wrote:Sariah Kion wrote:So why the biomass and giving away off all iskies and assets after strike one? Disenfranchisement? I might be acquainted with the individual being referred to as "John" but I don't know who that is so I can't speak to his character at all. However, it is not outside the realm of possibility that a person who believes they have done nothing wrong other than be successful at a game be punished with a suspension for it would feel disenfranchised enough to no longer invest their time in said game. Thus, this individual decides to quit. Or maybe he was a botting bastard and just really good at convincing people he was on the up and up. I don't know. Quote:None of this story is believable at this point.
Eve Uni has got themselves caught up in a full scale scandal.
Kelduum Step down from the CSM and Eve Uni now. Your incredulity and assessment of this situation read as disingenuous. That or you're just a drama queen. Quote:How deep does this rabbit hole go at Eve University? CCP should do some more digging around that Corp and its assets in the name of justice. Hmm... leaning toward drama queen.
Sure seems like the drama queens started a whole uproar because they couldnt keep botted isk.
Its always a spin tactic to try and turn the finger pointing in another direction. |
Zimmy Zeta
Red Federation
8019
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:58:00 -
[602] - Quote
After reading through all of this, I just wanted to say thank you to everybody who participated in this thread and provided me with so much first class entertainment. Please don't feed me. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
3009
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:59:00 -
[603] - Quote
Callie Cross wrote: You sure are comfy with your knowledge of their proof. Whether or not they can, how do you know so well?? I would suspect that CCP would ban with far less than 100% proof. If it walks, talks, etc.
So taking the liberty to say that you know for a fact that CCP has proof seems a bit much. Not that this point really matters at all in any way, the people saying that Kelduum is defending botting are either trolling or lacking adequate mental acuity in my opinion.
Yes, I'm quite confident in my ability to detect botting, hacking, spoofing, and cheating in my games. I may not catch every case, but I'm quite positive about the ones I do catch. I assume CCP to be at least as competent as me.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
772
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:00:00 -
[604] - Quote
Nikolai Lachance wrote:A) a delay between when this determination was made and when the ISK was removed, and B) why the determination only seemed to come when Kelduum spoke up about it.
A) Somebody forgot, and B) Somebody was remembered about it.
how hard to understand is that? [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
3009
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:00:00 -
[605] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote: Honestly? I can see some of the difficulty, yeah, which is why I'm not angry at CCP... yet. But I would say it'd do a lot of damage to CCP's position if someone made a video on how this was done. If "John" was legit, wish he would have stuck around to do that at least. If not? Good riddance.
John was botting. Really. I mean it. This is a provable thing, and CCP only bans on 150% proof.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3890
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:01:00 -
[606] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Aren Madigan wrote:baltec1 wrote:Aren Madigan wrote:They should have taken that money away if they had such evidence in the first place rather than allowing him to keep it at all to give it to someone else. An oversight that they fixed. But not before it did significant damage. No damage at all was done, so I'm not sure what your point is here. Upset customers is what one would call PR damage. Don't have to agree with those people, and maybe they are being unreasonable, but its not "nothing" regardless. Granted, if Kelduum is wrong and the guy did bot, he really needs to be smacked for riling people up. Otherwise, I'd say he's perfectly within his rights whether people like it or not. CCP Sreegs is not guilty of causing that damage. Kelduum is. Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:02:00 -
[607] - Quote
Nikolai Lachance wrote:Sariah Kion wrote:So, wait, Kelduum had questions about its legality, and when those questions were confirmed......people are all of a sudden surprised that it was, in fact, illegal ISK. Yes, because the way in which it was communicated cast doubt that any legitimate process was used to make that determination. That being that the ISK was not removed when the player in question was suspended for botting, and because no explanation for why there was A) a delay between when this determination was made and when the ISK was removed, and B) why the determination only seemed to come when Kelduum spoke up about it.
Such a strawman.
Thats what this is boiling down to now.
The man was botting. The isk was llegal. The isk was repossed and destroyed.
All this other white knighting and hang ringing is a side show, a side show which no one with an ounce of sense will believe. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3543
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:02:00 -
[608] - Quote
Quote:Or maybe he was a botting bastard and just really good at convincing people he was on the up and up. I don't know.
Not an argument, just an observation, but most botters are very, very good at convincing people that they don't bot (unless you are one of their partners).
Just as some of the most ruthless criminals in history were (at the time) considered to be incredibly generous by those that were in their favor.
How many times have we seen this same drama played out, where a friend of someone banned comes on the forums full of outrage because his "totally trustworthy" friend was banned for botting. This person honestly believes he can vouche for his internet buddy because "Hey, I've known this guy for years and he's a good guy. Very generous, doing good deeds every day." Only to have it end up revealed, often by sheepish confession, that the person in question had been heavily botting for years. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
baltec1
Bat Country
5183
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:03:00 -
[609] - Quote
Nikolai Lachance wrote:Sariah Kion wrote:So, wait, Kelduum had questions about its legality, and when those questions were confirmed......people are all of a sudden surprised that it was, in fact, illegal ISK. Yes, because the way in which it was communicated cast doubt that any legitimate process was used to make that determination. That being that the ISK was not removed when the player in question was suspended for botting, and because no explanation for why there was A) a delay between when this determination was made and when the ISK was removed, and B) why the determination only seemed to come when Kelduum spoke up about it.
They forgot to remove the isk and when kelduum sent the mail they realised the mistake and took the correct action. How is this hard for you? |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3543
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:05:00 -
[610] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Nikolai Lachance wrote:Sariah Kion wrote:So, wait, Kelduum had questions about its legality, and when those questions were confirmed......people are all of a sudden surprised that it was, in fact, illegal ISK. Yes, because the way in which it was communicated cast doubt that any legitimate process was used to make that determination. That being that the ISK was not removed when the player in question was suspended for botting, and because no explanation for why there was A) a delay between when this determination was made and when the ISK was removed, and B) why the determination only seemed to come when Kelduum spoke up about it. They forgot to remove the isk and when kelduum sent the mail they realised the mistake and took the correct action. How is this hard for you? Because it's not what they want to hear. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
|
samualvimes
Brothers At Arms Black Core Alliance
14
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:05:00 -
[611] - Quote
Thanks to everyone in this thread for giving me something to do this evening.
Special congratulations to CCP Sreegs for posting on the forums like a Boss again! |
Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1702
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:06:00 -
[612] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Aren Madigan wrote:baltec1 wrote:Aren Madigan wrote:They should have taken that money away if they had such evidence in the first place rather than allowing him to keep it at all to give it to someone else. An oversight that they fixed. But not before it did significant damage. And what damage would that be exactly? Well, that would be the hopes and dreams of internet spaceship nerds, of course! (who I'm sure knew nothing about it before Kelduum's thread, so...) - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Nikolai Lachance
Happy Wheels Logistics
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:07:00 -
[613] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:They forgot to remove the isk and when kelduum sent the mail they realised the mistake and took the correct action. How is this hard for you? That may in fact be what happened. And if so, then so be it. The problem isn't that this happened. The problem is in how it was communicated. The communication created an impression of incompetence covered up for by misconduct. If this was all communicated to Kelduum in the way Sreegs communicated it to us in his initial post here, this wouldn't have been such a big issue, I'm sure.
|
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
458
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:07:00 -
[614] - Quote
Kelduum and is thugs are showing their truth colors, they probably have secret bot classes in E-uni.
+1 to Whores in space for blowing them up. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Finde learth
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
30
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:07:00 -
[615] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Aren Madigan wrote: Honestly? I can see some of the difficulty, yeah, which is why I'm not angry at CCP... yet. But I would say it'd do a lot of damage to CCP's position if someone made a video on how this was done. If "John" was legit, wish he would have stuck around to do that at least. If not? Good riddance.
John was botting. Really. I mean it. This is a provable thing, and CCP only bans on 150% proof. -Liang
Did CCP ban Psyco Groupie on 150% proof? You should know you are lying like CCP. |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
772
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:09:00 -
[616] - Quote
Nikolai Lachance wrote:baltec1 wrote:They forgot to remove the isk and when kelduum sent the mail they realised the mistake and took the correct action. How is this hard for you? That may in fact be what happened. And if so, then so be it. The problem isn't that this happened. The problem is in how it was communicated. The communication created an impression of incompetence covered up for by misconduct. If this was all communicated to Kelduum in the way Sreegs communicated it to us in his initial post here, this wouldn't have been such a big issue, I'm sure. it's still a non-issue, since, aparently, this was escalated six times
[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Nikolai Lachance
Happy Wheels Logistics
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:09:00 -
[617] - Quote
Sariah Kion wrote:Such a strawman. Really? What argument did I misrepresent and attack?
Quote:The man was botting. The isk was llegal. The isk was repossed and destroyed. Not in dispute here. It's the manner in which it was handled and communicated that is.
|
Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
75
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:11:00 -
[618] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: CCP Sreegs is not guilty of causing that damage. Kelduum is.
Takes two to tango. Someone screwed up. Someone else esculated the screw up *shrugs*. If the first didn't happen, the second wouldn't have happened. Who is more at wrong? I'm not sure, don't have the whole story, nor are we likely to get it.
Liang Nuren wrote: John was botting. Really. I mean it. This is a provable thing, and CCP only bans on 150% proof.
-Liang
No one is perfect. I'm not going to make a judgement based on loyalty to a company. Nor am I going to make one based on loyalty to my corp. You can shout and scream "THIS IS TRUE! REALLY!" but its ultimately rings hollow. Hell, even if it was based on loyalty, CCP created a game I enjoy, E-UNI provided me a place where I felt I could actually stick with the game and enjoy it. Bam, pulled both ways, so even if I was that sort, I wouldn't be able to make a judgement solidly in my mind. Its not a good way to make decisions regardless though.
If anything this topic shouldn't be about if CCP was right or wrong as no one. NO ONE but CCP or "John" has access to the information needed to prove this. |
baltec1
Bat Country
5185
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:11:00 -
[619] - Quote
Nikolai Lachance wrote:baltec1 wrote:They forgot to remove the isk and when kelduum sent the mail they realised the mistake and took the correct action. How is this hard for you? That may in fact be what happened. And if so, then so be it. The problem isn't that this happened. The problem is in how it was communicated. The communication created an impression of incompetence covered up for by misconduct. If this was all communicated to Kelduum in the way Sreegs communicated it to us in his initial post here, this wouldn't have been such a big issue, I'm sure.
He was told multiple times why it was removed and as with every case the details of the case will not be shared with anyone other than the offender. |
Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1702
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:15:00 -
[620] - Quote
Nikolai Lachance wrote:baltec1 wrote:They forgot to remove the isk and when kelduum sent the mail they realised the mistake and took the correct action. How is this hard for you? That may in fact be what happened. And if so, then so be it. The problem isn't that this happened. The problem is in how it was communicated. The communication created an impression of incompetence covered up for by misconduct. If this was all communicated to Kelduum in the way Sreegs communicated it to us in his initial post here, this wouldn't have been such a big issue, I'm sure. Sreegs has stated multiple times that EXACTLY this was communicated to Kelduum multiple times (6 times). He then still went ahead and made his thread to kick up a stink because he didn't like being told he couldn't know any more.
Really, that's as far as it goes - Kelduum threw his dummy because Daddy said no. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
|
Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
75
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:15:00 -
[621] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:He was told multiple times why it was removed and as with every case the details of the case will not be shared with anyone other than the offender.
Which while understandable, is unfortunate as details make or break everything. Privacy comes first though. |
Callie Cross
Tax Code
5
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:15:00 -
[622] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Callie Cross wrote: You sure are comfy with your knowledge of their proof. Whether or not they can, how do you know so well?? I would suspect that CCP would ban with far less than 100% proof. If it walks, talks, etc.
So taking the liberty to say that you know for a fact that CCP has proof seems a bit much. Not that this point really matters at all in any way, the people saying that Kelduum is defending botting are either trolling or lacking adequate mental acuity in my opinion.
Yes, I'm quite confident in my ability to detect botting, hacking, spoofing, and cheating in my games. I may not catch every case, but I'm quite positive about the ones I do catch. I assume CCP to be at least as competent as me. -Liang
This really isn't a conversation about whether or not he was botting though. I'm sure a pretty decent size of the player base knows something about botting and detection methods even if that isn't their day job as is yours. This is a fairly tech minded crowd.
Everyone keeps jumping on this EUNI CEO SUPPORTS BOTTING bandwagon, but no one can provide a single word of source backing it up.
Where is that source? If it's provided, I'll beg apologies, but it seems to me that this has turned from a simple case of "Why wasn't the ISK taken immediately? Can I get an answer?" To "Self entitled ego mad man leader of E-Uni launches personal attack on CCP and uses brainwashed army to support botting!!!"
Come on... |
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:15:00 -
[623] - Quote
Nikolai Lachance wrote:Sariah Kion wrote:Such a strawman. Really? What argument did I misrepresent and attack? Quote:The man was botting. The isk was llegal. The isk was repossed and destroyed. Not in dispute here. It's the manner in which it was handled and communicated that is.
The whole argument has morphed into a misrepresentation and an attack on CCP. This WAS NEVER about CCP and oversight.
This isnt about justice or whats right, its about a corp leader and CSM member throwing a forum tantrum when he couldnt keep botted isk.
The more some of you try to make this out to be about CCP the more ridiculous you look to those who see this whole fiasco for what it is.
|
Darirol
Cold Steel Evolution Nulli Legio
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:17:00 -
[624] - Quote
Finde learth wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Aren Madigan wrote: Honestly? I can see some of the difficulty, yeah, which is why I'm not angry at CCP... yet. But I would say it'd do a lot of damage to CCP's position if someone made a video on how this was done. If "John" was legit, wish he would have stuck around to do that at least. If not? Good riddance.
John was botting. Really. I mean it. This is a provable thing, and CCP only bans on 150% proof. -Liang Did CCP ban Psyco Groupie on 150% proof? You should know you are lying like CCP.
and he escalated and got unbanned and got reimbursed with some plex for every account if i remember right. **** happens and the escalation thing seems to work.
|
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2414
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:18:00 -
[625] - Quote
Callie Cross wrote:Everyone keeps jumping on this EUNI CEO SUPPORTS BOTTING bandwagon, but no one can provide a single word of source backing it up.
Have a good, long read through the E-UNI thread that started all of this.
Apparently booking your flight & accomodation to Iceland BEFORE you buy the tickets for the convention which is pretty much the only reason you wanted to go there in the first place is popular. |
Nikolai Lachance
Happy Wheels Logistics
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:23:00 -
[626] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:He was told multiple times why it was removed and as with every case the details of the case will not be shared with anyone other than the offender. The problem is that being told it was removed because it was illegally obtained is insufficient, given the circumstances. If they had additionally explained why there was a delay in removing it, perhaps indicating that there was an ongoing investigation that had only just been completed, an assurance that the ISK would have been removed eventually, apologies for the inconvenience, and some kind of expression of gratitude for Kelduum's decision to bring it up with them before making use of the ISK (which would have complicated everything), then there wouldn't really be an issue.
Instead, the process made it look like the ISK was confiscated only because Kelduum brought it up and that they really hadn't substantiated the fact that the ISK was illegally obtained and were only saying so to stonewall Kelduum's incredulity.
EVE University lives almost entirely off of donations from others. With the way this was handled, it felt like E-Uni was being punished for Kelduum's due diligence by a security team with carte blanche authority and no oversight. It could have been handled significantly better, for example starting with the response that Sreegs posted in this thread initially.
|
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
975
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:27:00 -
[627] - Quote
At the risk if going slightly off-topic if I may.
By sheer coincidence, I was looking at the Eve-Uni website earlier today with a view to applying so that I could improve my terrible pvp skills.
Think I shall look for a different corp.
Eve-Uni and the game in general would suffer no great loss if their CEO if he was to biomass his character. This is not a signature. |
Nikolai Lachance
Happy Wheels Logistics
3
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:28:00 -
[628] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Callie Cross wrote:Everyone keeps jumping on this EUNI CEO SUPPORTS BOTTING bandwagon, but no one can provide a single word of source backing it up. Have a good, long read through the E-UNI thread that started all of this. And if, upon doing so, you come away with the impression that Kelduum supports botting, you have reading comprehension issues (or a significant personal bias against Kelduum). |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
774
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:30:00 -
[629] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:At the risk if going slightly off-topic if I may.
By sheer coincidence, I was looking at the Eve-Uni website earlier today with a view to applying so that I could improve my terrible pvp skills.
Think I shall look for a different corp.
Eve-Uni and the game in general would suffer no great loss if their CEO if he was to biomass his character. thing is, 3 years ago I would recomend eve-u to any noob that wanted to learn stuff.
nowadays and specially with this crap? hell better get your teaching somewhere. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Sassums
Wormhole Exploration Crew R.E.P.O.
76
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:30:00 -
[630] - Quote
Where do we go to submit feedback regarding the GM's, I have some feedback on issues and rather than throwing them under the bus, I'd prefer not to. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 27 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |