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Oosel
The Riot Formation Unclaimed.
2
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Posted - 2013.02.12 11:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
i know we are always getting more tech and better shineys but ive always wondered does ccp continue with the jovian line also.......i know they are already uber and all that jazz but surely their tech will also advance in line with ours. or if the rumours are to be beleived and they are a dieing race have they just taken a well earned break a bit like the greeks did |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2355
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Posted - 2013.02.12 11:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
Oosel wrote:i know we are always getting more tech and better shineys but ive always wondered does ccp continue with the jovian line also.......i know they are already uber and all that jazz but surely their tech will also advance in line with ours. or if the rumours are to be beleived and they are a dieing race have they just taken a well earned break a bit like the greeks did
We're getting one of their ships soon. Apparently booking your flight & accomodation to Iceland BEFORE you buy the tickets for the convention which is pretty much the only reason you wanted to go there in the first place is popular. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
815
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Posted - 2013.02.12 12:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Society of Concious Thought is a bit different from the actual Jove, though |
Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
254
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Posted - 2013.02.12 12:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
For what I've heard, they keep researching, but mostly concentrate on genetics in an attempt to save their race. |
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
111
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Posted - 2013.02.12 14:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Oosel wrote:i know we are always getting more tech and better shineys but ive always wondered does ccp continue with the jovian line also.......i know they are already uber and all that jazz but surely their tech will also advance in line with ours. or if the rumours are to be beleived and they are a dieing race have they just taken a well earned break a bit like the greeks did We're getting one of their ships soon.
Are we? Where is this stated? Yes, I know gnosis is on the test server but I also understood from what the dev's have said that it was unintentional. Nothing I've read has pointed towards the fact the yes, gnosis will be releases on TQ in the future. Malcanis for CSM 8 Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
761
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Posted - 2013.02.12 15:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sable Moran wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Oosel wrote:i know we are always getting more tech and better shineys but ive always wondered does ccp continue with the jovian line also.......i know they are already uber and all that jazz but surely their tech will also advance in line with ours. or if the rumours are to be beleived and they are a dieing race have they just taken a well earned break a bit like the greeks did We're getting one of their ships soon. Are we? Where is this stated? Yes, I know gnosis is on the test server but I also understood from what the dev's have said that it was unintentional. Nothing I've read has pointed towards the fact the yes, gnosis will be releases on TQ in the future. it seems likely considering that CCP is unlikely to waste resources on designing ships it has no intention of releasing and that we also got a SoCT ship for the 5th anniversary. I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
586
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Posted - 2013.02.12 15:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:For what I've heard, they keep researching, but mostly concentrate on genetics in an attempt to save their race. So possibly some innovative implants, or new and interesting combat pharmaceuticals... Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Malcanis for CSM8 |
Abrazzar
736
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Posted - 2013.02.12 15:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
Or a dice roll for Jovian experimental enhancement where we get either a attribute bonus or get biomassed. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
335
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Posted - 2013.02.12 15:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Or they are busy forming biological hiveminds, retroviruses that rewrite any found genome to be more suitable to Jove, biobased nanotech, making themselves far beyond even the immortal soldiers (Templar 1 is a great book go forth and buy it), and more.
The dying bit is annoying though as you could just put them in cryo or outright temporal stasis until a cure is found. Or for real fun slap a few into a scanner and just watch which part of the brains go bad then work out a replacement for those parts. And if it turns out to be the result of depression then just put in a tasp and when ever they start to go suicidal turn on the current and watch as they become all rainbows and sunshine. Frankly I think it would be hilarious if they introduced a Jove capsuleer who turned out to be in the early stages of the disease and so each clone has a random lifespan while the Jovian proper with all the ideas memories and all keep going on. This way you could have him pop in and do some things then go and decide to find out what molten plasma feels like just before the critical info is given.
Basically less elves in space more fleshed out race shrouded in mystery as no one found them in time. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
871
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Posted - 2013.02.12 15:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jove = Antarrans
(MOO people get it) EvE Forum Bingo |
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Felicity Love
STARKRAFT
236
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Posted - 2013.02.12 15:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
The Jovians will be the harbingers of change in EVE. None will stand before them and survive.
They will wipe the stars clean of Humanity's filth and we'll all start over again with ZERO skill points and empty wallets -- and NO LAG.
Or not.
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silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
586
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Posted - 2013.02.12 15:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote: And if it turns out to be the result of depression then just put in a tasp and when ever they start to go suicidal turn on the current and watch as they become all rainbows and sunshine.
But will we ever get to meet the Puppeteers, and can I buy a General Products #4 hull?
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Malcanis for CSM8 |
NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
336
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Posted - 2013.02.12 16:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:NEONOVUS wrote: And if it turns out to be the result of depression then just put in a tasp and when ever they start to go suicidal turn on the current and watch as they become all rainbows and sunshine.
But will we ever get to meet the Puppeteers, and can I buy a General Products #4 hull? We have the tech now http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=implant-epilepsy-seizure Turns out it also works on depression.
as for the GP hull
Here's some data for various real materials;
Material (real) Strength (N/cm^2) Specific Density Tensile Compressive Shear Strength g/cm^3
Steel, Mild 386,700 386,700 316,400 482 8.027 Steel, Nickel (3.25%) 703,000 703,000 703,000 894 7.860 Steel, Maraging 2,152,000 1,764,640 2681 8.027 Aluminum 5083 (MIL-A-46026) 35,000 132 2.657 Duralumin 43,400 124 3.510 Aluminum Alloy (7001-T6) 67,500 250 2.700 Titanium (Ti-6AL-4V/MIL-A-46077) 97,000 219 4.420 Titanium (heat-treated beta alloy) 1,380,000 3080 4.480 Carbon Fibre (typical) 200,000 160,000 889 2.250 Carbon Fibre (best available) 827,300 682,000 4472 1.850
Pretty poor and easily defeated by the kiloton level weapons we chuck about
However, here are some materials that we may be able to mass produce in the near future
Material (theoretical) Strength (N/cm^2) Specific Density Tensile Compressive Shear Strength g/cm^3
Monocrystalline Iron 4,600,000 4,600,000 660,000 6013 7.650 Flawless Diamond 10,000,000 50,000,000 12,100,000 28450 3.515 Carbon Nanotube Composite 30,000,000 16,100,000 16,100,000 230769
Let's assume monocrystalline iron is a cheap structural material and can be welded into structures as required. Flawless diamond is reasonably cheap but has to be factory made into specific pieces (which can be quite large, up to ten metres in each dimension) and is fairly brittle. Nanotube composite resembles incredibly strong carbon fibre, with similar costs and properties to current carbon fibre. With these materials high-performance aircraft will get about 100 times harder to damage, if they switch to nanotube composite and keep the same hull mass. Ground vehicles and ships will probably use monocrystalline iron frames with diamond plating or layered carbon armour (actually in practice probably some kind of premanufactured diamond/nanotube composite), for a 60 to 100 fold improvement on RHA per unit mass. Note the carbon nanotubes also have about 50 times the thermal conductivity of steel, which means melting your way through the armour will also be tough. Finally lets say that nanotube based hyperconductors also become mass-producable; these have a resistance of about 1000 times lower than copper (at room temperature), making damage from electric current a very low probability.
Now here is a theoretical material based on computer simulations that's far, far beyond these; ring carbon lattice (essentially benzene-like rings interlinked in a 3D structure). The projected properties are;
Material (theoretical) Strength (N/cm^2) Specific Density Tensile Compressive Shear Strength g/cm^3
Ring Carbon (3D Benzene Lattice) 1.0E+15 9.30E+14 9.3E+12 6.2E+12 2.400
Supposedly these remarkable properties (10 billion times as strong as RHA!) come from exploiting shared electron cloud repulsion for strength to supplement the usual covalent molecular bonds. The only way you're going to kill targets like that is with spalling or denaturing; pouring enough energy into the material that it breaks down. If it has thermal breakdown properties similar to diamond (which is probably a lower bound) I'd estimate it requires about 5 KJ/gram to denature, but it's extremely conductive, so melting your way through it will be hard. If we ever become able to produce this material it may take a direct hit with a multimegaton nuke just to kill one battleship equivalent. OTOH it doesn't give you any special protection against neutrons (AFAIK), so enhanced radiation warheads may be the way to go |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
1041
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Posted - 2013.02.12 17:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
No |
Azrin Stella Oerndotte
The Nommo Insurance Fraud.
50
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Posted - 2013.02.12 17:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
I like to imagine that Sansha has taken over Jove space and will soon be a playable faction. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
589
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Posted - 2013.02.12 17:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote: Supposedly these remarkable properties (10 billion times as strong as RHA!) come from exploiting shared electron cloud repulsion for strength to supplement the usual covalent molecular bonds. The only way you're going to kill targets like that is with spalling or denaturing; pouring enough energy into the material that it breaks down. If it has thermal breakdown properties similar to diamond (which is probably a lower bound) I'd estimate it requires about 5 KJ/gram to denature, but it's extremely conductive, so melting your way through it will be hard. If we ever become able to produce this material it may take a direct hit with a multimegaton nuke just to kill one battleship equivalent. OTOH it doesn't give you any special protection against neutrons (AFAIK), so enhanced radiation warheads may be the way to go
IOW, still not as tough as a GP hull.
Fun with materials - Good stuff there.
According to 'Known Space-Niven-cannon' a GP hull is a single molecule, energetically re-enforced by imbedded energy sources. It requires anti-matter impingement to denature it enough to penetrate it. Of course, once it starts to denature, it literally evaporates. Which could be embarasing.
Still enjoyed the post - I'm materials-geeking just a bit there. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Malcanis for CSM8 |
NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
337
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 17:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:IOW, still not as tough as a GP hull. Fun with materials - Good stuff there. According to 'Known Space-Niven-cannon' a GP hull is a single molecule, energetically re-enforced by imbedded energy sources. It requires anti-matter impingement to denature it enough to penetrate it. Of course, once it starts to denature, it literally evaporates. Which could be embarasing. Still enjoyed the post - I'm materials-geeking just a bit there. You seem to be forgetting hybrid rounds fire am shells. Also they killed another hull with a comms laser. And really a single molecule is weak to quite a few things from acids and bases reacting thus altering the structure to short pulse high frequency & amplitude energy systems that cause surface plasma detonations to generation of aniparticles through high intensity LASER strikes to well energizing until the bonds fail (helloo projectiles) The GP hull was only good because the space police ******** all the good techs. Diamond is mono molecular yet we wouldnt armour tanks out of it alone. On the other hand so are carbon nanostructures and while grand they have numerous issues and again can be defeated by local methods. Also if you ship lets light in then you can just flashbake everyone inside with a visible laser and that would be the end of it. Or depending on how dense it is I could use high energy particles or even a theoretical neutrino emission system (we can do that but it acts rather more as a point source than a beam. Kind of hard to get wimps to do what you want) |
bufnitza calatoare
Nex Angelus. Unclaimed.
68
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Posted - 2013.02.12 17:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Oosel wrote:i know we are always getting more tech and better shineys but ive always wondered does ccp continue with the jovian line also.......i know they are already uber and all that jazz but surely their tech will also advance in line with ours. or if the rumours are to be beleived and they are a dieing race have they just taken a well earned break a bit like the greeks did We're getting one of their ships soon.
tbh I don't think so... its more than likely the next tourney ship.
with the exception of the remaps. ccp have NEVER given away anything useful as presents. |
NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
337
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 17:54:00 -
[19] - Quote
bufnitza calatoare wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Oosel wrote:i know we are always getting more tech and better shineys but ive always wondered does ccp continue with the jovian line also.......i know they are already uber and all that jazz but surely their tech will also advance in line with ours. or if the rumours are to be beleived and they are a dieing race have they just taken a well earned break a bit like the greeks did We're getting one of their ships soon. tbh I don't think so... its more than likely the next tourney ship. with the exception of the remaps. ccp have NEVER given away anything useful as presents. The spring one was good with all the implants and ships and such. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
2055
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 18:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jove dont invent anymore. Theyre dead. Dead people dont do much...unless theyre zombies.
Wait...can zombies invent? Hmmmmm...You always think that a zombie is driven only by the primal part of the brain, and that really has no higher brain function that is needed for invention.... But then again invention in this game really only requires a spreadsheet..and spreadsheets are usually made by people who wish they were dead... So maybe a zombie can invent.
Answer: Possibly Maybe. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
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bufnitza calatoare
Nex Angelus. Unclaimed.
68
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Posted - 2013.02.12 18:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote:bufnitza calatoare wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Oosel wrote:i know we are always getting more tech and better shineys but ive always wondered does ccp continue with the jovian line also.......i know they are already uber and all that jazz but surely their tech will also advance in line with ours. or if the rumours are to be beleived and they are a dieing race have they just taken a well earned break a bit like the greeks did We're getting one of their ships soon. tbh I don't think so... its more than likely the next tourney ship. with the exception of the remaps. ccp have NEVER given away anything useful as presents. The spring one was good with all the implants and ships and such.
sorry totally forgot about the implants. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
592
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Posted - 2013.02.12 18:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote:silens vesica wrote:IOW, still not as tough as a GP hull. Fun with materials - Good stuff there. According to 'Known Space-Niven-cannon' a GP hull is a single molecule, energetically re-enforced by imbedded energy sources. It requires anti-matter impingement to denature it enough to penetrate it. Of course, once it starts to denature, it literally evaporates. Which could be embarasing. Still enjoyed the post - I'm materials-geeking just a bit there. You seem to be forgetting hybrid rounds fire am shells. Also they killed another hull with a comms laser. And really a single molecule is weak to quite a few things from acids and bases reacting thus altering the structure to short pulse high frequency & amplitude energy systems that cause surface plasma detonations to generation of aniparticles through high intensity LASER strikes to well energizing until the bonds fail (helloo projectiles) The GP hull was only good because the space police ******** all the good techs. Diamond is mono molecular yet we wouldnt armour tanks out of it alone. On the other hand so are carbon nanostructures and while grand they have numerous issues and again can be defeated by local methods. Also if you ship lets light in then you can just flashbake everyone inside with a visible laser and that would be the end of it. Or depending on how dense it is I could use high energy particles or even a theoretical neutrino emission system (we can do that but it acts rather more as a point source than a beam. Kind of hard to get wimps to do what you want) Wait saying the word meaning held back starting with r and ending with d is now a banned word? Learn something new I guess. AM shells I have not forgetten. If you recall your Niven, it took a steady stream of AM to do the job. Also, if you recall your chemistry, not all polymers are terribly reactive to changes in pH. Tearing down a hull with a coms laser was a done in a contrived situation. Nothing is ever safe from the author, not even canon. Come to think of it, neither is EVE safe from CCP. Hmmm.... <.<
Anyway, materials geeking is fun, but I think we're getting too serius here. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Malcanis for CSM8 |
Aion Amarra
1
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Posted - 2013.02.12 19:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote:Note the carbon nanotubes also have about 50 times the thermal conductivity of steel, which means melting your way through the armour will also be tough.
Bah. Head full of mental images of people just building weapons to boil the crew/inner circuitry alive instead of damaging the hull. |
ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us
1024
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Posted - 2013.02.12 19:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:AM shells I have not forgetten. If you recall your Niven, it took a steady stream of AM to do the job. Also, if you recall your chemistry, not all polymers are terribly reactive to changes in pH. Tearing down a hull with a coms laser was a done in a contrived situation. Nothing is ever safe from the author, not even canon. Come to think of it, neither is EVE safe from CCP. Hmmm.... <.< Anyway, materials geeking is fun, but I think we're getting too serius here.
>MRW CISPA - Readin' your secret corptheft mails since 2012 |
fukier
RISE of LEGION
810
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Posted - 2013.02.12 19:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Oosel wrote:i know we are always getting more tech and better shineys but ive always wondered does ccp continue with the jovian line also.......i know they are already uber and all that jazz but surely their tech will also advance in line with ours. or if the rumours are to be beleived and they are a dieing race have they just taken a well earned break a bit like the greeks did We're getting one of their ships soon.
Soct is about as jove as angel ships are. At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |
NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
338
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 20:32:00 -
[26] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:AM shells I have not forgetten. If you recall your Niven, it took a steady stream of AM to do the job. Also, if you recall your chemistry, not all polymers are terribly reactive to changes in pH. Tearing down a hull with a coms laser was a done in a contrived situation. Nothing is ever safe from the author, not even canon. Come to think of it, neither is EVE safe from CCP. Hmmm.... <.< Anyway, materials geeking is fun, but I think we're getting too serius here. The fact remains anti particles will annihilate your hull while liberating quite the significant quantity of hard radiation and for that matter the description bore far more consistency to the Dirac sea model than the more current model borne of general relativity and quantum theory. Plus Braumstrung radiation caused by the braking will do quite well at transmuting the atoms further wrecking your monomolecular shell.
Also polymers tend to react poorly in space for a variety of reasons and the methods to make them work also mean they will fail even more catastrophically in the high energy events that so characterize warfare.
Also the battleship I mentioned earlier? That was a USNAVY Iowa class battleship. So that little Punisher you are flying? You would need something like an Ivy-Mike initiation to destroy it. Destroyers could easily be seeing Tsar Bomba level events to be wrecked. And this is contingent on surface detonations as the further out you go the more energy is wasted (half of which will be even with the surface detonantion.)
So yeah GP hulls are author ****, while Jove hulls are actually supported by real world physics. Which makes for something funny.
Oh wow really? Another word removed by the filter that is the correct and accepted term. Joy. I should start a thread on the accursed word filter and its lack of oversight. Particularly as the game is T and thus language is acceptable. I feel like protesting by making a giant mamary made of cans outside an icebelt. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
602
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 21:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
Jove hulls supported by science. In an internet spaceship MMO. Mm-Hmm.
Dude, seriously, don't be so serious. Materials engineering geeking is fun, but you're headed off the field of play awfully fast there. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Malcanis for CSM8 |
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
The Perfect Harvesting Experience
75
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Posted - 2013.02.13 12:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
I already have a Jove ship, it was given to me 5 years ago by the SfCT. |
NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
343
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 12:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Jove hulls supported by science. In an internet spaceship MMO. Mm-Hmm.
Dude, seriously, don't be so serious. Materials engineering geeking is fun, but you're headed off the field of play awfully fast there. true I wrote a little to much. I suppose its because there is just enough that when compared to the lol energy shields or you cant know of other scifi I am a bit happy.
Now a better question is what is the power source for everything in the game. I mean the t2 ships we at least know due to the thulium products (this only goes into reactors, t2 ships are not in vast demand yet. Do not waste large sums of ISK on stockpiling it. Teiricide of t2 ships is not imminent.) |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2220
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 14:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
Felicity Love wrote:The Jovians will be the harbingers of change in EVE. None will stand before them and survive. They will wipe the stars clean of Humanity's filth and we'll all start over again with ZERO skill points and empty wallets -- and NO LAG. Or not. So you mean to say no more Jita? I can live with that... |
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