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Major Trant
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
141
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Posted - 2013.02.16 19:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
When I join the Minmatar Militia I am instantly hunted by the Amarr and Caldari navies when I enter their high sec. What I don't understand as I travel up the ranks of the Minmatar Militia is: Why don't the Minmatar police turn a blind eye to one of their heroes travelling through their high sec?
I am currently a Matar Colonel with a standing of +8.47 with the TLF and +5.21 with the Minmatar Republic. But my sec status is -2.1417 and if I jump into a Minmatar 1.0 system the Minmatar police are on me.
I'm sure plenty of people will say I shouldn't be naughty. But I make this suggestion from a role play perspective. It just seems wrong and would make an interesting perk to offset the fact that half of high sec is instantly out of bounds for you as soon as you join FW, no matter how good your sec status is.
There are actually 10 ranks (I assume all Militia have the same number). How about each rank giving you a 0.5 modifier to your security status in you home faction high sec only. Thus pure pirates types that hit -10 won't get any benefit, but if you do try and keep on top of things then our own police ought to look the other way for someone who is only a 'little' over the threshold for a particular system. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
1958
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Posted - 2013.02.16 20:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
You're actually confusing two different NPC groups.
The Faction Navy will chase and attack you if you are their FW enemy and in their high-sec.
The Faction Police will chase and attack you if you have low security status and in their high-sec. It doesn't care if you are in FW or not.
What other differences are there? The Navy will use webs, primary racial Ewar, and straight out damage. The Police will use webs, scrams, all of its racial Ewar, and straight out damage. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
13
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Posted - 2013.02.16 21:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
I don't actually participate in FW, but this raises an interesting question. When you're out there in FW lowsec, killing and podding each other like they're going to disable aggression during tomorrow's DT, is sec status lost at all? Can I kill 10,000 enemy FW ships and 8,000 enemy FW pods while maintaining my shiny 5.0 sec status or will it start to dip? |
Astroniomix
Thorn Project Ushra'Khan
433
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Posted - 2013.02.16 21:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:I don't actually participate in FW, but this raises an interesting question. When you're out there in FW lowsec, killing and podding each other like they're going to disable aggression during tomorrow's DT, is sec status lost at all? Can I kill 10,000 enemy FW ships and 8,000 enemy FW pods while maintaining my shiny 5.0 sec status or will it start to dip? It treats people in the other faction as war targets. You can do whatever you want to them with no sec status loss. Neutrals however still hurt your sec status. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
13
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Posted - 2013.02.16 22:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Astroniomix wrote:Alvatore DiMarco wrote:I don't actually participate in FW, but this raises an interesting question. When you're out there in FW lowsec, killing and podding each other like they're going to disable aggression during tomorrow's DT, is sec status lost at all? Can I kill 10,000 enemy FW ships and 8,000 enemy FW pods while maintaining my shiny 5.0 sec status or will it start to dip? It treats people in the other faction as war targets. You can do whatever you want to them with no sec status loss. Neutrals however still hurt your sec status.
That's kind of what I suspected. In that case, you got your low sec status by doing criminal acts that are completely separate from your FW service. The penalties associated with your deeds (or misdeeds) are yours to enjoy for free for as long as you keep your low sec status.
If we want to put it into real-world perspective (god, I hate it when people do this but it's convenient), it'd be like asking the police to simply ignore the crimes committed by a member of the army/navy/etc as long as they didn't kill anyone.
That kind of thing is not going to happen. In fact, they'll probably be arrested by the civilian police and then handed over to the military police who will deal with it noticeably more harshly. As a member of the military, you're typically held to a higher standard than the average civilian.
If we want to change the way faction police/faction navies react to FW members' sec status, the appropriate thing to do would be to raise the sec status that provokes a police reaction from 2.0 to 1.5 or so. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
745
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Posted - 2013.02.16 22:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Time to grind up sec.
Police is police, it doesn't care for you faction standings or fw membership. Navy and police are completely different kind of beasts. Navy can be tanked easily. Police cannot. And they use more than just racial ewar. Trying to tank the police = death. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Frost 3
Desertus Caterva The Interstellar Trade n Terror Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.02.17 04:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
Major Trant wrote:When I join the Minmatar Militia I am instantly hunted by the Amarr and Caldari navies when I enter their high sec. What I don't understand as I travel up the ranks of the Minmatar Militia is: Why don't the Minmatar police turn a blind eye to one of their heroes travelling through their high sec?
I am currently a Matar Colonel with a standing of +8.47 with the TLF and +5.21 with the Minmatar Republic. But my sec status is -2.1417 and if I jump into a Minmatar 1.0 system the Minmatar police are on me.
I'm sure plenty of people will say I shouldn't be naughty. But I make this suggestion from a role play perspective. It just seems wrong and would make an interesting perk to offset the fact that half of high sec is instantly out of bounds for you as soon as you join FW, no matter how good your sec status is.
There are actually 10 ranks (I assume all Militia have the same number). How about each rank giving you a 0.5 modifier to your security status in you home faction high sec only. Thus pure pirates types that hit -10 won't get any benefit, but if you do try and keep on top of things then our own police ought to look the other way for someone who is only a 'little' over the threshold for a particular system.
Manage your security status better and this isn't a problem |
Major Trant
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
141
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 17:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:You're actually confusing two different NPC groups. No. You're failing to comprehend what I wrote.
At no point am I confused as to who is shooting me, in which systems or why. Your definitions are correct, but at no point do they contradict what I wrote. |
Major Trant
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
141
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 18:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
@ Alvatore DiMarco, sabre906 and Frost 3
You are absolutely correct. As I said, I've been naughty, I killed people in low sec that I didn't have the authority to kill with a valid war dec.
I not saying I shouldn't have taken a standing hit for doing that. What I'm saying is that my own faction police should turn a blind eye to that, especially for high ranking Militia members. Afterall the security standing hit is set by Concorde, but it is the faction police that have to enforce it. It makes sense to me from a RP perspective that our own faction police would be sympathetic to us or even bought off.
From a game play point of view, I don't think this suggestion would be OP as we immediately lose free access to half of high sec as soon as we join FW. So to be given a little leeway in one quarter of high sec seems a fair trade off. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14086
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 20:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Why should they turn a blind eye? It makes absolutly no sense that they would. Either don't shoot neutrals, or pay the price.
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
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Quintessen
Nakamori Ventures
31
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Posted - 2013.02.17 23:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
We don't give war heroes a pass on repeated bad behavior. Gen. Soandso was really important in the war, but he keeps murdering people in alleys and taking their stuff... But he was soooo influential. And the military might turn a blind eye and keep giving him promotions, but the police sure aren't. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
749
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Posted - 2013.02.18 00:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
Major Trant wrote:@ Alvatore DiMarco, sabre906 and Frost 3
You are absolutely correct. As I said, I've been naughty, I killed people in low sec that I didn't have the authority to kill with a valid war dec.
I not saying I shouldn't have taken a standing hit for doing that. What I'm saying is that my own faction police should turn a blind eye to that, especially for high ranking Militia members. Afterall the security standing hit is set by Concorde, but it is the faction police that have to enforce it. It makes sense to me from a RP perspective that our own faction police would be sympathetic to us or even bought off.
From a game play point of view, I don't think this suggestion would be OP as we immediately lose free access to half of high sec as soon as we join FW. So to be given a little leeway in one quarter of high sec seems a fair trade off.
No it shouldn't. -10 pirate can gank with zero consequences just by joining FW. It's game breaking. What you need to do is go grind sec. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Major Trant
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
141
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 02:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:No it shouldn't. -10 pirate can gank with zero consequences just by joining FW. It's game breaking. What you need to do is go grind sec. You have a right to your opinion, but I do wish you would read and understand the OP before posting that opinion.
-10 pirates wouldn't be able to gank with zero consequences just by joining FW. The best they could get to is -5 and then only by grinding rep with the relevant FW corp - TLF in the case of Minmatar and it would require a standing of something like +9 with them to get the full modifier. They would then still need to work on their sec status to actually be able to enter the relevant high sec without being a flashy red to other players. Then they would have to raise it by a full 0.5 just to be able to enter 0.5 space without the Police attacking and higher levels of high sec would never be reachable for true pirates.
However, I concede that being able to reach a state of not being flashy red when they start from -10, just by killing one NPC pirate would probably be OP. So perhaps a smaller incremental bonus, say 0.25 per level, thus a -10 can only be modified to a maximum of -7.5 and then only by serious grinding of TLF standing.
People posting responses seem to be assuming this is an attempt to legalise pirating or something. The issue though is that with the new FW plexing system, particularly the novice plexes which only allow T1 Frigates in them - FW low sec has become the day tripper's preferred destination, looking for ganks. What are we supposed to do when a neutral comes into a FW plex that we are running? Run away? Wait for him to shoot first? What if he is a kiting fit and you are holding the warp in with a brawler fit. Let him go to range and start the engagement at his optimal? That would be stupid, wouldn't it?
It was originally planned that the FW plex changes would come in at the same time as the ability to buy and sell pirate tags to trade for standing, but the latter got shelved due to lack of time. It has been suggested that FW plexes shouldn't give standing hits to anyone fighting in them. My suggestion would allow people in FW who do actually try to keep on top of their sec status to at least go shopping in the local high sec trading hub when they need to. It will not be a get out of jail card for the true pirate who ganks anyone and everyone he comes across.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14088
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 08:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ahh now we get to the crux. FW plex and you thinking that FW pilots should be treated like special snowflakes, because of it.
How about this. You either don't engage neutrals first, or pay the consequences of getting a sec hit? Like everyone else.......
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Frost 3
Desertus Caterva The Interstellar Trade n Terror Alliance
1
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Posted - 2013.02.18 11:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
Major Trant wrote:@ Alvatore DiMarco, sabre906 and Frost 3
You are absolutely correct. As I said, I've been naughty, I killed people in low sec that I didn't have the authority to kill with a valid war dec.
I not saying I shouldn't have taken a standing hit for doing that. What I'm saying is that my own faction police should turn a blind eye to that, especially for high ranking Militia members. Afterall the security standing hit is set by Concorde, but it is the faction police that have to enforce it. It makes sense to me from a RP perspective that our own faction police would be sympathetic to us or even bought off.
From a game play point of view, I don't think this suggestion would be OP as we immediately lose free access to half of high sec as soon as we join FW. So to be given a little leeway in one quarter of high sec seems a fair trade off.
that defeats the purpose of security status all together. you where bad, concord doesn't forgive.
Run missions and change your sec status to a level you can do what you need to. its not hard to manage.
I just had my alt ganked by a gallente faction warfare and enjoyed watching concord blow her ship to hell. are you saying that because ti was in gallente space they should get a pass cause they are such a distinguished character? if that's what your trying to say then i as respectably as possible say no. |
Major Trant
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
141
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 13:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
Frost 3 wrote:I just had my alt ganked by a gallente faction warfare and enjoyed watching concord blow her ship to hell. are you saying that because ti was in gallente space they should get a pass cause they are such a distinguished character? if that's what your trying to say then i as respectably as possible say no. No that's not what I'm saying. You're getting mixed up with Concord and the Faction police. |
Sarok Zateki
Marabu Red Cat Nomad Society
2
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 13:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
I think you are missing the point.
If you are in FW an some neutral/pirates approach, you cannot engage them preemptively, if you do you take a sec status hit even if they are clearly a threat.
What the OP is saying its why my own faction police will engage me in my faction space,while im fighting for them.
If this were to be changed as the OP suggest, it could be "exploited" for legal piracy: But wouldnt that make you a privateer? |
Sarok Zateki
Marabu Red Cat Nomad Society
2
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 13:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
Now that i think about it FW = UN |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
577
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Posted - 2013.02.18 13:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Why should they turn a blind eye? It makes absolutly no sense that they would. Either don't shoot neutrals, or pay the price.
If I do understand OP's point, he's saying his country police is shooting their own army soldiers.
Now I don't do FW so I don't know exactly what game mechanics go for this, but from an outside point of view and if I correctly understood Op, the fact your country police shoots their own army soldiers is rather silly and I should agree with him.
Not knowing that much about FW feel free to correct me, I'm curious about this now.
*removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sarok Zateki
Marabu Red Cat Nomad Society
2
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 13:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Mag's wrote:Why should they turn a blind eye? It makes absolutly no sense that they would. Either don't shoot neutrals, or pay the price. If I do understand OP's point, he's saying his country police is shooting their own army soldiers. Now I don't do FW so I don't know exactly what game mechanics go for this, but from an outside point of view and if I correctly understood Op, the fact your country police shoots their own army soldiers is rather silly and I should agree with him. Not knowing that much about FW feel free to correct me, I'm curious about this now. Edit: if while being FW member OP shoots non FW enemy members, then the criminal mechanics should apply normally, and I suppose it's what happened?
This is like Rambo first blood |
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Major Trant
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
142
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 18:18:00 -
[21] - Quote
People have been trying to draw analogies to real life, but continue to talk in terms of killing people. However, in real life if you kill one person illegally, you are a murderer and no amount or time, military service or charity work will lesson that crime. This is NOT analogous to the way killing people in Eve works, in Eve you can kill a certain quota before you become noticed and hunted by the police and can negate a series of murders altogether even after you have come to the attention of the police, simply by the community service of ratting.
The best analogy that I can think of is a minor traffic violation. If you get caught speeding (in UK) you will get a fine and 3 points on your license. The fine is the equivalent of the Concorde response/Suspect/Criminal flag functionality. The 3 points is similar to a standing hit. If you commit four traffic violations and gain 12 points you get your license taken away for a year. However, you can reduce the number of points simply by time, after 3 years the points expire. Which effectively means you can commit a minor traffic violation once a year on average without any long term consequences beyond the actual fines.
Now lets try and shoe horn this into FW. A brave upstanding patriot steps up to fight for his country and goes off to war. In the middle of that war he is speeding to help colleagues caught in an ambush and gets a speeding ticket by the local police, unsympathetic to his country or his service. International law dictates that any traffic offence committed in any country has to be recognised world wide. Meanwhile half the world sympathetic to his country's enemy declare. "We don't care how clean your license is, we are going to make it as difficult as possible for you if you ever come to our country. As long as you are a soldier you are banned from driving in our country".
Now back in his own country is it really unreasonable to think that his own police might be a little sympathetic to this 'hero'. General SoAndSo, brave, honourable, upstanding pillar of the Militia... the analogy kind of breaks down there, because I don't expect them to turn a blind eye to any new offence, just discount old offences in the count up to whether he should be banned, which is really in the jurisdiction of a judge, but whatever... So they are going to discount points awarded that are over 2 years old, rather than 3. However, if he has committed four offences in the last 2 years, he still gets toasted.
Would offenders, who habitable speed, join the military just to get this benefit, maybe, but it would be less effort to just do the community service of ratting and actually gain access to all of high sec.
The trolls are going to love this one aren't they? LOL. If you are going to blast this post, at least go to the effort of putting it into the context of the OP please. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14092
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 19:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
I'm not even suggesting a link with any real life situation. You're asking to be excluded from any punishment for shooting neutrals. Here let me help you, the clue is in the name.
FACTION WARFARE. Not Faction/Neutral warfare. This means you have consequences for shooting neutrals. How hard is it to understand? Being in FW doesn't make you special or the right to be.
Next you'll be asking for immunity from concord, because you're in FW.
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Quintessen
Nakamori Ventures
35
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Posted - 2013.02.18 23:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
Not really a speeding violation so much as vandalism. Though podding someone ha got to at least be battery. |
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