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Kary Franks
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
9
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 10:05:00 -
[31] - Quote
Tabor Murn wrote:We welcome the liberated slaves of the Brutor, the Sebiestor, The Vherokior, The Krusual, The Starkmanir, and the Thukker. Why should we treat our brethren who wish to see the Minmatar made whole again different?
Liberated slaves. Slaver. See the difference? Tribes can be whole without the traitors. They are the cancer that was removed for the whole to be healthy again. If you feel that the Tribes are not whole without them, the problem is inside you. I suggest you contemplate on that.
Yes. The slavery of our people has cut us deep. Yes. There has been lot of suffering. Yes. We believe the Ammatar have chosen their path. It is so easy to label us "blinded by hate". At the same time, there seem to be people out there who have such an emptiness inside them, they'd do anything to get it filled. Ask yourself, what is the emptiness that the return of these traitors would fill?
Tabor Murn wrote:All shall respect the might of the tribes!
The might of the tribes has already been there. However, we can still be Six Kin united, strong and free. |
Tabor Murn
Gradient Electus Matari
5
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Posted - 2013.02.18 10:17:00 -
[32] - Quote
Odd, I counted seven in Pator.
You and your Murie brethren keep claiming all are Ammatar, yet the actions such as those of Chief Eleca Valkanir say otherwise.
On a personal note: I have fought for the Minmatar people since I left the gravity well of my birthworld. Call me empty of morality or suggest I am a traitor, and I will kill you Kary Franks. |
N'maro Makari
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
105
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 10:28:00 -
[33] - Quote
Speaking strictly personally, as Minmatar, behaviour here is unbecoming. As I recall, the Elders were the ones who brought the Nefantar back to us, alongside the Starkmanir that they had protected.
Did the Elders not seek us to be united? Did the Defiants not give their lives to this cause? For 7 united tribes?
I hope that the Murientor can bury the hatchet and help build a new, peaceful and stable Republic.
A stable Republic is a blessing to the whole cluster. N'maro Makari Executive Officer The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative |
Gosakumori Noh
Viziam Amarr Empire
92
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 10:33:00 -
[34] - Quote
Now, just a friendly reminder: one sure-fire way for some of the Tribes to raise capital to fight off another one of the Tribes is to sell the Sebiestor back to Amarr. "Unity" is for table thieves, after all. |
Tabor Murn
Gradient Electus Matari
5
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Posted - 2013.02.18 10:38:00 -
[35] - Quote
We've seen what you do to Sebiestor. I'm sure I speak for all when I say, we're not intersted. |
Kary Franks
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
9
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 10:53:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tabor Murn wrote:Odd, I counted seven in Pator.
You and your Murie brethren keep claiming all are Ammatar, yet the actions such as those of Chief Eleca Valkanir say otherwise.
I guess you want Six Kin Developments renamed, then? Even then when that corporation was founded, it was realized that Nefantir are gone. And the spirit of Starkmanir was still present. We were whole as Six Kin before and we can be so in the future.
What actions? Pretty much all that is generally known is this:
News wrote:Nefantar Chief Eleca Valkanir is 78 years old, and spent most of her life as a civil servant within the government of the Ammatar Mandate.
Civil servant within the government of the Ammatar Mandate. 78 years old. She has obviously had the pleasure of enjoying the fruits of slave labour for quite some time. Now. If someone here thinks my tone or language inproper to talk of a chief, then challenge my opinion - GIVE THE PEOPLE FACTS. She has had ample opportunities to share her history with the Minmatar people. Has she? No. The Minmatar people have a right to know the background of all who call themselves Nefantar!
In addition, all those who had dealings with slavery should be brought to justice. Surely we can agree on this? And if this does not apply to Ammatar, why? Also, if someone silently condones slavery, how is that person any better?
Tabor Murn wrote:On a personal note: I have fought for the Minmatar people since I left the gravity well of my birthworld. Call me empty of morality or suggest I am a traitor, and I will kill you Kary Franks.
As have I. And on a personal note for you my friend. Where did I mention even a notion of you having lack of morality or being a traitor? You are a fellow warrior of the Minmatar people and worthy of my respect.
You should save your threats for the enemies of Minmatar! |
Rana Ash
Gradient Electus Matari
151
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 12:57:00 -
[37] - Quote
All have seen here is hear say and no solid proof, you do well to turn your eyes towards the true enemy instead of things you have heard.
Dissension with in the tribes serves us no good, it only helps the amarri. Is that what you want?, perhaps we should take a cold hard look at the ones crying about the ammmatar.
See i too can make up enemies, if you so disagree over the ammatar take it up with the elders. I am sure they will listen to you, have you asked them?. Do you know what their intentions where?, no?. |
Gifen Skalkar
Republic Parliament Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.02.18 13:02:00 -
[38] - Quote
As delegate to the Tribal Council for the Brutor Tribe, under the watchful eyes of my Tribal Chief, I declare my support and solidarity for the Nefantar Tribe, and their people.
Welcome home, brothers and sisters. |
Muska Kaltash
Republic Parliament Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.02.18 13:03:00 -
[39] - Quote
As delegate to the Tribal Council for the Thukker Tribe, under the watchful eyes of my Tribal Chief, I declare my support and solidarity for the Nefantar Tribe, and their people.
Welcome home, brothers and sisters. |
Asogur Gertak
Republic Parliament Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.02.18 13:04:00 -
[40] - Quote
As delegate to the Tribal Council for the Starkmanir Tribe, under the watchful eyes of my Tribal Chief, I declare my support and solidarity for the Nefantar Tribe, and their people.
Welcome home, brothers and sisters. |
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Avoli Belvar
Republic Parliament Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.02.18 13:05:00 -
[41] - Quote
As delegate to the Tribal Council for the Krusual Tribe, under the watchful eyes of my Tribal Chief, I declare my support and solidarity for the Nefantar Tribe, and their people.
Welcome home, brothers and sisters. |
Fredur Holgeli
Republic Parliament Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.02.18 13:06:00 -
[42] - Quote
As delegate to the Tribal Council for the Vherokior Tribe, under the watchful eyes of my Tribal Chief, I declare my support and solidarity for the Nefantar Tribe, and their people.
Welcome home, brothers and sisters. |
Silkur Insur
Republic Parliament Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.02.18 13:06:00 -
[43] - Quote
As delegate to the Tribal Council for the Sebiestor Tribe, under the watchful eyes of my Tribal Chief, I declare my support and solidarity for the Nefantar Tribe, and their people.
Welcome home, brothers and sisters. |
Ansher Karhisen
Republic Parliament Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 13:10:00 -
[44] - Quote
I thank you all on behalf of my Tribe for your support and solidarity. It is a heartwarming and humbling feeling for the Nefantar to once again walk among the Matari people.
Thank you again.
|
Gabriel Darkefyre
Gradient Electus Matari
22
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 13:11:00 -
[45] - Quote
I have no issue with the Nefantar provided that they are working in the best interests of the Republic and it's people as a whole. They can believe in whatever they want as long as it doesn't interfere in that duty.
However, conversely, should it come to light that they are working against the interests of the Republic, then.... Well, we know what happens to Traitors...
To the Nefantar, I simply say, you have one chance and the eyes of the Republic are upon you. Don't screw up. |
Alizabeth Vea
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
241
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 14:08:00 -
[46] - Quote
You know what I hate? Form letters. Something other than a copy and paste would mean a lot more. Staff Writer: themittani.com -á If you are going anywhere else to get your Eve News, you are wrong.
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N'maro Makari
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
105
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 14:21:00 -
[47] - Quote
Alizabeth Vea wrote:You know what I hate? Form letters. Something other than a copy and paste would mean a lot more.
All seven tribal delegates just took the time of day to respond to an issue at the same time. Have a pinch of sugar in your coffee. N'maro Makari Executive Officer The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative |
Alizabeth Vea
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
241
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 14:25:00 -
[48] - Quote
N'maro Makari wrote:
All seven tribal delegates just took the time of day to respond to an issue at the same time. Have a pinch of sugar in your coffee.
That's not sugar I put in it, it's crash! Staff Writer: themittani.com -á If you are going anywhere else to get your Eve News, you are wrong.
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Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
3266
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 14:44:00 -
[49] - Quote
Thread owned by tribal delegates
Quote:You know what I hate? Form letters. Something other than a copy and paste would mean a lot more. haters gonna hate.
Torn from grace, gotta find your faith or the devils gonna claim your soul
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Sepherim
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
290
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 14:47:00 -
[50] - Quote
Okay, let me get the facts straight in a small chronology:
a) The Ammatar live peacefully in the Ammatar Mandate
b) The "Elder Fleet" comes and kidnaps them to free them
c) They're taken from their homes and sent back to Pator and the Republic, to bad economic conditions
d) They get a representative in the Council
e) Since they're "traitors" they don't have the right to have a Council representative because they believe in God, and thus have to be subject to the decisions of other tribes and their leaders. Oh, and they should never be trusted, doesn't matter what they say or do.
So, which was the point in "freeing" them if you only intended to make them become subjects in your own Republic? Is it that you want your own slaves, then? Because it surely looks that way.
I fought the Defiants since they came to the Bleak Lands, and many of them fell to the lasers of my squad. And I can tell you one thing, even if we were enemies, and even if the Defiants were little more than a big group of terrorists, they believed in your Republic a lot more than you, who claim their legacy, do.
Your ancestors whisper to you? I'm sure they're saying they are ashamed to see what you have become.
PD: it certainly seems like we have a new social trend by repeating statements starting here! I'm sure the Gallente social circles must be full of people doing this now, it's so trendy! Or something... Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Initiate Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander |
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Deerin
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
57
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 15:44:00 -
[51] - Quote
Sepherim wrote:Okay, let me get the facts straight in a small chronology:
You provided no facts. Elder fleet went to Halturzhan according to intel provided by Sisters of EVE to liberate the Starkmanir tribesman and women, enslaved by the Ammatar.
The fact the Ammatar betrayed Amarr and come back to our side after seeing might of the Elder fleet just shows that they they are still traitors in essence. You know it too. You are counting on it too. The fact that you are coming up with arguments for them even by including the Defiants, shows that you want them in the council so they can betray us again.
Alizabeth Vea wrote:You know what I hate? Form letters. Something other than a copy and paste would mean a lot more.
Not in this case Miss Vea. By using an unified text, Tribal Council has made it perfectly clear that they are intending to "win" Ammatar delegate over and form a united Tribal Council. They also made clear that they have heard us and this didn't change their point of view.
We recieved your message Tribal Delegates. Our point of view stands firm. We know that we will be betrayed again. This time we'll be ready for it when it happens.
Our eyes will be on you Mr. Karhisen. Know that Murientor Tribe will
Never trust an Ammatar! |
Sepherim
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
290
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 16:29:00 -
[52] - Quote
Deerin wrote:You provided no facts. Elder fleet went to Halturzhan according to intel provided by Sisters of EVE to liberate the Starkmanir tribesman and women, enslaved by the Ammatar.
Facts:
a) There are no accounts of special violence or problems in the Ammatar Mandate. You can check the logs if you want to, and you'll see no news agencies reported it being a specially violent or complicated region prior to the invasion.
a) The Republic "Elder Fleet" destroyed the main CONCORD station. It's in the history books if you want to check it, I believe there is even video footage of the event.
b) The "Elder Fleet" invaded Amarr sovereign space and faced the Imperial Navy. There are also plenty records of this, and I was there.
c) The "Elder Fleet" took thousands of Minmatarr slaves from their shelters, some willing, some not. Then took them to the Minmtarr Republic. This was done with the aid of part of the Ammatar government. There is also ample historical evidence of this, you can go check upon it if you like.
d) The Empress defeated the "Elder Fleet", there is even video footage of this. The taken slaves were not recovered, though, as the Amarr Empire didn't invade Mimatarr sovereign space.
e) There are ample mentions in the news and elsewhere about the Republic not being able to absorbe such a massive influx of freed slaves all at a time. Something that would be even harder when the Empress freed the ninth generation.
f) They get a representative in the council, which has just replied into this topic, proving not only they have one, but he counts with the backing of the representatives of all tribes.
g) You brand them traitors, claim they have no right to participate in government, and are not to be trusted. You can read it in this same thread. Basically, this means making them powerless in your society, if not even outcasts, and the lowest social class. Akin to slavery, as they would have no voice in government, nor in the issues that guide their lifes, as they should not have a representative and should not be trusted, so they should be watched upon. All because they believe in God.
Is that proof enough for you? Or can you deny any of those facts?
[quote]The fact the Ammatar betrayed Amarr and come back to our side after seeing might of the Elder fleet just shows that they they are still traitors in essence. You know it too. You are counting on it too. The fact that you are coming up with arguments for them even by including the Defiants, shows that you want them in the council so they can betray us again.
I see, I should have understood sooner: this is a conspiracy! As Gutter Press would say "astonishing!".
Now, if we get back to the real world, and start thinking instead of repeating empty lines (I know, it's hard, but I believe even you can do it!), you'll see that I have no personal interests on the matter. I don't care where those ex-slaves are or how are their conditions, at least not care in the way you imply: I'm not planning on them being in your coucil so they can betray you, nor I'm counting with all this being a complex plot to thwart the Republic from within, nor any other such evil genius' conspiracy.
I'm just saying: you are betraying the ideals you supposedly have. And the memory of a respected enemy I fought against. As I said earlier, if you listen carefully to those whispers, you'll notice they don't claim what you think they say. Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Initiate Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander |
Scherezad
Lai Dai Research Spacelane Security
550
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 16:49:00 -
[53] - Quote
I am an outsider and will not comment on the troubles that reunification can bring. You are a strong and proud people, close to my heart, and I have every confidence that this momentous occasion is the beginning of a new era in the Cluster of New Eden. Let the light of seven tribes, long-wandering, guide us to new horizons. You have my compliments, children of Matar, and I hold it in confidence that these birthing pains you now feel shall be followed by great joy. |
Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
441
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 17:09:00 -
[54] - Quote
I would respectfully request that PIE and other Amarrian propagandists refrain from posting in this thread. Why must you people insinuate yourselves in our affairs all the time? Haven't you done enough harm to us?
Allow us to have a discussion without your interference, please. I've refrained form posting in many a thread where you Imperials have brought up issues of your so-called faith and debated among yourselves even though they were filled with libel, half-truths and outright lies about my people. Allow us the same freedom.
Thank you for your kind comments Pilot Scherezad and all others wishing our people well at this momentous time. What you want is irrelevant, what you've chosen is at hand. |
Gosakumori Noh
Viziam Amarr Empire
94
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 17:42:00 -
[55] - Quote
Scherezad wrote:You have my compliments, children of Matar, and I hold it in confidence that these birthing pains you now feel shall be followed by great joy.
There you go again, eloquent and noble to a fault. I have great confidence that in some number of decades, your diabolical plans shall be revealed, and you will be worshiped as the gloriously dark god-empress of a thousand thousand stars. I congratulate you on your pending coronation, sweetie!
In the mean time, all else equal, I agree the Matari would enter a period of comfort and joy if they put aside their form letters and welcomed the Nefantar home.
However, "traditionally one of the largest tribes after the Starkmanir, the Nefantar enjoyed great influence and prestige among the Minmatar" ... in times past. Presently, the Nefantar have several advantages. These may not be "fair," but they exist. Most significantly: their numbers did not suffer as those of the other tribes during more interesting times; their resources were not spent fighting a formidable opponent; and the Starkmanir owe them quite a debt.
All else equal, the Nefantar will become the Hegemon in a prosperous, peaceful Republic almost by default.
I welcome this, for the Nefantar shall keep their Faith, and endless war is wearing thin. Nothing worth it should come easily, however, and I do not blame the Murientor for recognizing the very real threat to their culture (if not their creature comforts).
Prior to my unfortunate collision with a poorly placed large naturally occurring orbital body, I envisioned the Krusual leading this charge. The name feels more primal, and Krusual hatred for the Sebiestor aligns with my Peculiar Tastes. But nature abhors vacuum, and the Murientor have filled it with rage. It warms by black little artificial heart to see that at least one of the Tribes still recognizes what it means to be Tribal (as opposed to Not Quite Gallente).
Which is not to criticize the Gallente. They wear such loud clothing, I had not realized what charms lay beneath. But a Crash addict's aerosol and a cowboy in only his boots opened my eyes to their formidable assets. Besides, a civil war in the Republic would give the Federation a nearly bottomless supply of Tragic Victims.
Tragic Victims that could be resettled in Syndicate, diluting indigenous ingrates with a very grateful diaspora... and democracy will do the rest. It's such an obvious, sure-fire win, I'd almost believe the Gallente planned the whole thing. |
Salena Ashera
41
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 18:25:00 -
[56] - Quote
I absolutely cannot believe the stupidity expressed by Minmatar here. Salena Ashera; Shandian Lu clan Mystic. |
Uraniae Fehrnah
Viziam Amarr Empire
182
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 18:32:00 -
[57] - Quote
So, men, women, and children seven centuries removed from an "act of betrayal" that in effect saved a different tribe from total genocide, are traitors. These men and women, doing there civic duties of trusting their leaders even if they might disagree at heart with those decisions, are traitors. These men and women who flocked to the Elder Fleet vessels and fled the Mandate alongside the Starkmanir, are traitors.
Does it not occur to you that those that returned to the Republic have, at heart, always been Matari just like those of you who rebelled and took up arms? Certainly those that knew of the plans to shelter the Starkmanir are Matari. Your people were faced with terrible times and horrible choices. The Nefantar elders made the hard choice to do something horrible to prevent something worse. There were no winning options available and surely, in the fullness of time, a living Matari still has hope and the fire of their spirit, even if restrained. One could argue that some Ammatar are more enslaved than the other remaining Matari slaves. They are so enslaved that they believe in the causes and ideas that put them in chains. These men and women who have finally thrown off their chains, who are now free people, the very thing you all wish for and fight for, are traitors?
So tell me, how can these free Nefantar win? If they remain in the Mandate they are considered slavers and traitors. If they defect to the Republic they are considered slavers still and traitors two-fold. There is an old saying, you reap what you sow, and I think it is appropriate here. Be careful how you treat your returning brothers and sisters, for if you treat them as monsters they are more likely to become monsters. |
Kary Franks
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
9
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 18:37:00 -
[58] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:I would respectfully request that PIE and other Amarrian propagandists refrain from posting in this thread. Why must you people insinuate yourselves in our affairs all the time? Haven't you done enough harm to us?
Allow us to have a discussion without your interference, please. I've refrained form posting in many a thread where you Imperials have brought up issues of your so-called faith and debated among yourselves even though they were filled with libel, half-truths and outright lies about my people. Allow us the same freedom.
Thank you for your kind comments Pilot Scherezad and all others wishing our people well at this momentous time.
I agree.
Any Amarr and/or their sympathizers in this thread do not need any discussion in this matter. This is Minmatar matter and for Minmatar. I recommend everyone to just set their comm-equipment to ignore Amarrian messages in this conversation.
"Rana Ash" wrote:All have seen here is hear say and no solid proof, you do well to turn your eyes towards the true enemy instead of things you have heard.
Dissension with in the tribes serves us no good, it only helps the amarri. Is that what you want?, perhaps we should take a cold hard look at the ones crying about the ammmatar.
See i too can make up enemies, if you so disagree over the ammatar take it up with the elders. I am sure they will listen to you, have you asked them?. Do you know what their intentions where?, no?.
You claim that Nefantar treachery lacks solid proof? You mean the subjugation of our people is not proof enough? And also, worry not. I do sometimes hear men can't multitask, but I am more than capable of discussing the matter while concentrating on defending our interests against the Amarr.
Remember. Dissension within the tribes is not our creation. And also. If we ignore important internal matters, it can also help the Amarr. Is that what you want? No. If the Republic is to stay strong, we need to be able to handle even the painful internal matters of all Minmatar.
Murientor tribe warrior does not cry over Ammatar. We do however remember well how the Ammatar took care of our people.
The Elders have said the Nefantar were to protect Starkmanir tribe. The problem is... why did the Nefantar who did not know of the "masterplan" acted their role so brilliantly. Master slavers and rapists. Such people do not deserve to be taken into the fold. Most of the Murientor tribe were lost during we were under Ammatar rule. That is why we do not forget...
Never trust an Ammatar! |
Belanar Colt
The Scope Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 20:11:00 -
[59] - Quote
Especially the ugly avatar ones! I mean, in general... They just plain out ugly! |
Simon Louvaki
Sengokuvaa Corporation
100
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 20:32:00 -
[60] - Quote
Kary Franks wrote: The Elders have said the Nefantar were to protect Starkmanir tribe. The problem is... why did the Nefantar who did not know of the "masterplan" acted their role so brilliantly. Master slavers and rapists. Such people do not deserve to be taken into the fold. Most of the Murientor tribe were lost during we were under Ammatar rule. That is why we do not forget...
Never trust an Ammatar!
So your saying you don't believe the Elders? I'm genuinely interested. The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word.
- The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21 |
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