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Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
888
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 00:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
T2 Rep Amount: 800 @ 400 cost
T1 Rep Amount 600 @ 400 cost
AAR no fuel 450 @ 400 cost
AAR fueled 1350 @ 400 cost.
Reps over 2 minutes:
T2 = 6400
T1= 4800
AAR= 9900
T2 Steel Plate = 4200
If you die faster than 45 seconds the plate does a better job, but as an added bonus the plate has no cap cost.
TL:DR The AAR is useful for fights that last more than 45 seconds.
Which would be useful if it didn't cost cap, A dominix fitted with EANMs plates, and a DC could get all 7 cycles if it used projectiles and didn't use a MWD.
The AAR fills the niche case of :
An arty/ac Dominix with no prop mod or hardeners.
Hey, I just met you... and this is crazy but you popped my Rifter, so don't pod me maybe? |
Skorpynekomimi
450
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Posted - 2013.02.19 00:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
Or, for example, someone who wants an active tank for a mission, but doesn't want a second rep and associated cap use?
Someone with a spare low slot in an armour buffer tank, and wants to rep armour between fights?
Or you could fit a cap booster. |
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
494
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 00:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
the Incursus, Proteus, Legion, Sacrilege, Astarte, Pilgrim, Brutix, Myrm, Eos, Kronos, Paladin, Hyperion and many others disagree
Edit: essentially any fot that uses one rep or any bonused ship can use the same fit and get more repping power in a fit that already accounted for the cap use. wumbo |
Hixeppa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
83
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 00:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tom Gerard wrote: T2 Steel Plate = 4200
Except it's more like 18000 when you add in Slaves/ganglinks/trimarks/skills. |
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
888
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Posted - 2013.02.19 00:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hixeppa wrote:Tom Gerard wrote: T2 Steel Plate = 4200
Except it's more like 18000 when you add in Slaves/ganglinks/trimarks/skills.
That doesn't help the argument for the AAR =P Hey, I just met you... and this is crazy but you popped my Rifter, so don't pod me maybe? |
NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
370
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Posted - 2013.02.19 00:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tom Gerard wrote:
That doesn't help the argument for the AAR =P
That's like arguing that antibiotics doesnt help the argument for leaches. Both will make you feel better, one does so painlessly the other literally bleeds you dry! |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
2783
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Posted - 2013.02.19 00:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tom Gerard wrote:Hixeppa wrote:Tom Gerard wrote: T2 Steel Plate = 4200
Except it's more like 18000 when you add in Slaves/ganglinks/trimarks/skills. That doesn't help the argument for the AAR =P Well, you'd also have to factor in ganglinks, rep rigs, and skills for the AAR as well. Ganglinks alone can almost double local rep amounts.
edit: and throw in slaves as well. If we're talking about survivability, the hp bonus of slaves adds to the time it takes you to die, even if you choose active over buffer. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement. |
Ptraci
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
1268
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 13:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote: That's like arguing that antibiotics doesnt help the argument for leaches.
Nor leeches. Leaching is something that happens to soil. Leeches are the blood sucking parasites. I assume you meant the latter.
EDIT: I tried to restrain my inner grammer ****, I really did. But I couldn't :( |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14098
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 13:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Why is it when I look at this new module, I think meh?
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us
1032
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 14:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Skorpynekomimi wrote: Someone with a spare low slot in an armour buffer tank, and wants to rep armour between fights?
Spare lowslots in armour tanks do not exist.
Mag's wrote:Why is it when I look at this new module, I think meh?
Because with a 60 second reload and without the overheating rigs, it's awful. CISPA - Readin' your secret corptheft mails since 2012 |
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Nalha Saldana
Ordo Drakonis Nulli Secunda
684
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Posted - 2013.02.19 14:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Active armor tank is way faster and more agile then the passive armor tank. |
ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us
1033
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 14:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nalha Saldana wrote:Active armor tank is way faster and more agile then the passive armor tank.
40m/s extra is not :way: faster. Armor ships are still inherently slow. Plus buffer ships have far more survivability. CISPA - Readin' your secret corptheft mails since 2012 |
Nalha Saldana
Ordo Drakonis Nulli Secunda
685
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Posted - 2013.02.19 22:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote:Nalha Saldana wrote:Active armor tank is way faster and more agile then the passive armor tank. 40m/s extra is not :way: faster. Armor ships are still inherently slow. Plus buffer ships have far more survivability.
No but 270m/s and 2s align is and thats with the new armor skill and rig skills maxed. With those at IV we are talking about over 300m/s difference, dont forget that mass makes MWD less effective. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
2266
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Posted - 2013.02.19 23:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Why is it when I look at this new module, I think meh?
Its because only 1 is allowed per ship whereas ASB you can fit all you want. If you could fit all the new armor reppers you want , you wouldnt be thinking meh, youd be think Boosh! and/or Ka-kow! Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3581
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 02:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Why is it when I look at this new module, I think meh? I'm keeping an open mind until I can play with them a bit, with all the new tweaks and skills in play. It may end up being fairly viable for certain fits and play styles. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14103
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 02:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Mag's wrote:Why is it when I look at this new module, I think meh? I'm keeping an open mind until I can play with them a bit, with all the new tweaks and skills in play. It may end up being fairly viable for certain fits and play styles. Agreed. It's not that it's cap use or nanite paste is an issue, it isn't. For me it's more about only allowing us to fit one. Maybe even that wouldn't be a problem, if it allowed us to switch between nanite use and standard rep without unloading it.
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us
1054
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 14:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Agreed. It's not that it's cap use or nanite paste is an issue, it isn't. For me it's more about only allowing us to fit one. Maybe even that wouldn't be a problem, if it allowed us to switch between nanite use and standard rep without unloading it.
Main issue with it is that because CCP want to encourage burst tanking they've given it the 60 second reload. This becomes an issue because no hull smaller than a battleship can survive 60 seconds on a non-dedicated buffer. Everything could do with that lowslot. All the AAR is good for (sub-battleship) is improving dualrep fits. CISPA - Readin' your secret corptheft mails since 2012 |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3582
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 16:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
I threw together a triple rep Prophecy last night, mostly just to see if it could be done, but it ended up being too late to actually give it a test run when I got done. It would probably work a lot more efficiently on a Brutix or a Myrmidon, but we'll see.
I will say this, that Prophecy sure moves a lot faster set up like that than they used to with a traditional heavy buffer fit.
AAR's were not available on the market at the time I was on, so I substituted a T1 rep as a placeholder for now.
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that after the AAR burns through it's first load of Nanite Paste (using cap also, but repping 3 times as much) it keeps going running on cap alone (at 2/3rds efficiency). It only stops repping to reload Nanite Paste if you manually stop it, as opposed to an ASB which shuts down to reload more Cap Charges if any are available in your hold regardless of what you may desire.
If I am correct in this, that gives the AAR user a nice bit of needed flexibility, as you have a lot better control over your tactical options at that point.
If I'm incorrect on that, well, I'm sure I'll hear about it soon enough. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Arduemont
Tempest Legion Corcoran State
1229
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 16:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote:Tom Gerard wrote:
That doesn't help the argument for the AAR =P
That's like arguing that antibiotics doesnt help the argument for leaches. Both will make you feel better, one does so painlessly the other literally bleeds you dry!
Actually, sorry to be a **** here, but leaches don't work on infections... So that's not a great comparison. I haven't read the rest of the thread, I just saw that and had to pass comment.
I'll leave now. Sorry. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us
1055
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 16:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Arduemont wrote: Actually, sorry to be a **** here, but leaches don't work on infections... So that's not a great comparison. I haven't read the rest of the thread, I just saw that and had to pass comment.
I'll leave now. Sorry.
Technically I woulda thought there would be some argument for them removing septic blood from a recently-infected wound. But what do I know, I'm not a doctor. CISPA - Readin' your secret corptheft mails since 2012 |
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destiny2
Abh Empire Unclaimed.
122
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Posted - 2013.02.20 17:09:00 -
[21] - Quote
the AAR sucks you can only fit 1 aar to any ship i was hopeing to have a dual AAR hyper rep for pvp. |
Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
82
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 17:18:00 -
[22] - Quote
My only problem with the AAR is that holy hell is the paste expensive compared to the caps used for the shield version. Couldn't imagine it'd hurt to adjust for that in some way. Other than that seems fine to me so far. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3588
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 18:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote:My only problem with the AAR is that holy hell is the paste expensive compared to the caps used for the shield version. Couldn't imagine it'd hurt to adjust for that in some way. Other than that seems fine to me so far. I have a feeling the increased demand will spark a new focus on it's production, which ultimately should bring the price down a bit. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14142
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 19:10:00 -
[24] - Quote
Yea, can we get over the cost already. I'm happy to deal with that for the chance of more reps and less restocking.
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
82
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 20:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Aren Madigan wrote:My only problem with the AAR is that holy hell is the paste expensive compared to the caps used for the shield version. Couldn't imagine it'd hurt to adjust for that in some way. Other than that seems fine to me so far. I have a feeling the increased demand will spark a new focus on it's production, which ultimately should bring the price down a bit.
Maybe in theory, but that largely depends on the production cost as well. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
1085
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 20:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
Or I could just warp in the guardians. |
Joran Dravius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
123
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Posted - 2013.02.20 23:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote:Tom Gerard wrote:
That doesn't help the argument for the AAR =P
That's like arguing that antibiotics doesnt help the argument for leaches. Both will make you feel better, one does so painlessly the other literally bleeds you dry! Uh...both won't make you better. You know why they used leeches back in the day? Same reason they burned "witches". Everything bad was blamed on superstitious bull ****. Leeches were a form of bloodletting. Here's what the internet has to say about that:
Wikipedia wrote:Bloodletting (or blood-letting) is the withdrawal of often small quantities of blood from a patient to cure or prevent illness and disease. Bloodletting was based on an ancient system of medicine in which blood and other bodily fluid were regarded as "humors" that had to remain in proper balance to maintain health. It was the most common medical practice performed by physicians from antiquity until the late 19th century, a span of almost 2,000 years.[1] The practice has now been abandoned for all except a few very specific conditions.[2] It is conceivable that historically, in the absence of other treatments for hypertension, bloodletting could sometimes have had a beneficial effect in temporarily reducing blood pressure by reducing blood volume.[3] However, since hypertension is very often asymptomatic and thus undiagnosable without modern methods, this effect was unintentional. In the overwhelming majority of cases, the historical use of bloodletting was harmful to patients.[4] |
Arronicus
Vintas Industries Mistakes Were Made.
244
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 23:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote:My only problem with the AAR is that holy hell is the paste expensive compared to the caps used for the shield version. Couldn't imagine it'd hurt to adjust for that in some way. Other than that seems fine to me so far.
Price is in a spike session, becaue of people buying thinking that price is going to go up, and not much supply having been available due to limited demand. Price will restabilize in the next few weeks to something much more affordable. |
Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
85
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 03:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:Aren Madigan wrote:My only problem with the AAR is that holy hell is the paste expensive compared to the caps used for the shield version. Couldn't imagine it'd hurt to adjust for that in some way. Other than that seems fine to me so far. Price is in a spike session, becaue of people buying thinking that price is going to go up, and not much supply having been available due to limited demand. Price will restabilize in the next few weeks to something much more affordable.
Just looked at how its made... that price isn't going to drop... requires quite a few planetary commodities to make it. The base materials are just too expensive for the price to drop all that much because really, the price right now is not that far above cost. |
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