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General Jack Cosmo
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.02.20 06:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
I was wondering some times we start out trying out every ship skill ect then later we start to decide to focuse on certain attributes for example starting out caldari heavy and then changing later to mimitar ships or industry vs pvp!
I propose being able to reclaim skill points by unlearning skills and then applying thos recovered points to want you know want to learn!
I know some will say they dont like it because you can just change things on the fly too much, and i understand that point! Let me ask could we do this and maybe put a penalty on it like getting back only two thirds Sp's, so people wont abuse it?
what do you think of the idea? |
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
650
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Posted - 2013.02.20 07:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
It's been suggested many times before.
No. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
1988
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Posted - 2013.02.20 07:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
As i said in the last thread... there is no such thing as "wasted skill points."
There are simply skills that were useful in the past and helped you get where you are now... and there are skills that you have yet to find useful.
No to "skill reimbursement." Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
General Jack Cosmo
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.02.20 07:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
sorry but you never know if you're ideas are worth anything unlees you post or debate them:)
I am still hoping for alittle support but if not then i quess this post will fall into cyber oblivion in no time :) |
PaNtHeeRa
Rep-X Hashashin Cartel
97
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Posted - 2013.02.20 07:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
It has been suggested before... many times, in fact it gets suggested on a monthly basis or more...
The old players always reply with
"NO"
Im an old player with 135msp, 99%pvp.
And I say, Whatever... It wont hurt a thing except the Character Bazaar. So why not.
Edit: Yeah Yeah, you can buy the character you want on the forums... But you cannot buy the name you want. |
Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
51
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Posted - 2013.02.20 07:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
PaNtHeeRa wrote:It has been suggested before... many times, in fact it gets suggested on a monthly basis or more...
The old players always reply with
"NO"
Im an old player with 135msp, 99%pvp.
And I say, Whatever... It wont hurt a thing except the Character Bazaar. So why not.
Edit: Yeah Yeah, you can buy the character you want on the forums... But you cannot buy the name you want.
I'll go with yes also and the same reasons as above.
I don't see how this could harm the game and the only place this would have an inpact is the character bazaar.
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Bum Shadow
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
25
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Posted - 2013.02.20 07:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
The reason its a bad idea is because after about 40-50m SP there is nothing you cannot do.
Day 1 you're a maxed out amarr BS pilots. Oh today thats not needed we want triage archons. No worries ill just respec now.
Day after that sorry mate, we're going shield tanked. No worries respec caldari.
Day after that we need titan bridge, ahh not a problem mate ill just respec for a titan.
Where as currently although i agree no skills are wasted, if you want something new, you have to devote time to getting it.
Those with 100m+ SP can do a heck of a lot of things to an extremely high level. But they cannot do everything (on a single character anyway) But if they could remap their entire skill set. they would be 100% SP perfect in every role every day.
It would be a mess and never balance out.
The Idea is nice but in reality terrible. A compromise would be perhaps you get 1 skillremap per character and this can only be used within the first 6 months of your character being made. If you dont use it you lose it and if you do use it thats it gone for ever.
other than as a "starter" ability for newbies who spend 2-3 months training pants on head ******** stuff due to being new wanted to correct some early mistakes I think its a bad idea. |
PaNtHeeRa
Rep-X Hashashin Cartel
97
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Posted - 2013.02.20 07:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
I cannot disagree with you on most points. This is somthing that shouldnt be a free to do whenever. Id agree with once in a characters lifetime or even once per account. (but with no end date) |
Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
51
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Posted - 2013.02.20 07:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
PaNtHeeRa wrote:I cannot disagree with you on most points. This is somthing that shouldnt be a free to do whenever. Id agree with once in a characters lifetime or even once per account. (but with no end date)
There was a post about this few weeks back where the OP talked about CCPs interaction also, cause when CCP changes the game some skills just are useless for time being and it was talked that the system could be the same as neural remapping as in once a year or something like that or when CCP lets everyone do it. |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
25
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Posted - 2013.02.20 08:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
No.
EvE is all about choices and consequences. You made your choice when you put skills in training queue. |
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Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
51
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Posted - 2013.02.20 08:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:No.
EvE is all about choices and consequences. You made your choice when you put skills in training queue.
And when CCP decides to remove gallente battleships is still my fault that I trained gallente battleship to 5? Or when a new player starts to play the game and train for industry and finds out that he wants to shoot people is hes fault that he didn't know the game and wasted a year of training time? Or when older players lead yonger players to train something completely useless, is it their fault?
The argument that EvE is about choices is getting realy realy old and seems most of you just love to use it in every single cause you can think of. EvE is about choise but it doesn't mean that everything needs to be like that.
If you realy want it to be that way then lets ask the game to be hardcore and add a way to kill a player permanently also. This way you realy need to think what you do and say cause there will always be someone who will backstab you and then your choises actualy do count. |
androch
Chillwater Ltd
38
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Posted - 2013.02.20 08:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
no... part of what makes this game special is the planning out of your skills sometimes a year ahead of time.. what would be the point of specializing if you could just turn around and yank the skills and drop it into something else |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
25
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Posted - 2013.02.20 08:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Azrael Dinn wrote:And when CCP decides to remove gallente battleships is still my fault that I trained gallente battleship to 5? To my knowledge CCP refunds SP should such thing happen.
Azrael Dinn wrote:Or when a new player starts to play the game and train for industry and finds out that he wants to shoot people is hes fault that he didn't know the game and wasted a year of training time? Yes it is.
Azrael Dinn wrote:Or when older players lead yonger players to train something completely useless, is it their fault? Yes it is. For mindlessly following someone's else advice. Older != better. |
androch
Chillwater Ltd
38
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Posted - 2013.02.20 08:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
Azrael Dinn wrote:Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:No.
EvE is all about choices and consequences. You made your choice when you put skills in training queue. And when CCP decides to remove gallente battleships is still my fault that I trained gallente battleship to 5? Or when a new player starts to play the game and train for industry and finds out that he wants to shoot people is hes fault that he didn't know the game and wasted a year of training time? Or when older players lead yonger players to train something completely useless, is it their fault? The argument that EvE is about choices is getting realy realy old and seems most of you just love to use it in every single cause you can think of. EvE is about choise but it doesn't mean that everything needs to be like that. If you realy want it to be that way then lets ask the game to be hardcore and add a way to kill a player permanently also. This way you realy need to think what you do and say cause there will always be someone who will backstab you and then your choises actulay do count. to this ******** statement... any time ccp removes a skill that you invest sp into they reimburse the sp so you can invest it elsewhere, this point is moot |
Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
51
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Posted - 2013.02.20 08:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
androch wrote:Azrael Dinn wrote:Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:No.
EvE is all about choices and consequences. You made your choice when you put skills in training queue. And when CCP decides to remove gallente battleships is still my fault that I trained gallente battleship to 5? Or when a new player starts to play the game and train for industry and finds out that he wants to shoot people is hes fault that he didn't know the game and wasted a year of training time? Or when older players lead yonger players to train something completely useless, is it their fault? The argument that EvE is about choices is getting realy realy old and seems most of you just love to use it in every single cause you can think of. EvE is about choise but it doesn't mean that everything needs to be like that. If you realy want it to be that way then lets ask the game to be hardcore and add a way to kill a player permanently also. This way you realy need to think what you do and say cause there will always be someone who will backstab you and then your choises actulay do count. to this ******** statement... any time ccp removes a skill that you invest sp into they reimburse the sp so you can invest it elsewhere, this point is moot
Ok removes the skill was mayby a over the top but lets say it this way. CCP changes all gallente ships so that you can only use rockets on them. You are completely missing the whole point of the post. |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
25
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 08:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Azrael Dinn wrote:Ok removes the skill was mayby a over the top but lets say it this way. CCP changes all gallente ships so that you can only use rockets on them. You are completely missing the whole point of the post. You should make a point 1st for someone to miss it. Right now you dont. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2478
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 08:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
Azrael Dinn wrote:I don't see how this could harm the game and the only place this would have an inpact is the character bazaar.
Flavour of the month training, which is something CCP doesn't want people being able to do trivially. Add in the fact that the character bazaar would become a desolate wasteland. Apparently booking your flight & accomodation to Iceland BEFORE you buy the tickets for the convention which is pretty much the only reason you wanted to go there in the first place is popular. |
Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
51
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 08:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:Azrael Dinn wrote:Ok removes the skill was mayby a over the top but lets say it this way. CCP changes all gallente ships so that you can only use rockets on them. You are completely missing the whole point of the post. You should make a point 1st for someone to miss it. Right now you dont.
You just do not want to see it as you are so stuck on your own opinion that you do not even want to see other options.
And if it's not obious the point is that you honestly do not always have a choice in the game and other might make choises for you. This is why it would be a good thing to implement a system when you could respec your skills. |
PaNtHeeRa
Rep-X Hashashin Cartel
97
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 09:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
BAH, the character bazaar will still function fine. People will always want to buy more SP. But instead of the cost being based on what skills are trained it will based on the total SP only. It wont make it a wasteland, just change it a bit.
And training flavor of the month can be averted in many ways. Just make it once per account. Allows people to fix their mistakes. And yes, skills you dont use are waste... Heh, just look at someone trying to sell a character on the bazaar... People are always trying to use that as an excuse to bring the price down. |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
477
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 11:14:00 -
[20] - Quote
Why is it always soem 3 moth old player proposing sush game breaking changes like this.
Horrible idea.... go and play the game for at least a year before even thinking about suggesting changes to one of the best things about Eve (The skill system)
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
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Jaiimez Skor
I N E X T R E M I S Fidelas Constans
68
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Posted - 2013.02.20 11:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
PaNtHeeRa wrote:BAH, the character bazaar will still function fine. People will always want to buy more SP. But instead of the cost being based on what skills are trained it will based on the total SP only. It wont make it a wasteland, just change it a bit.
And training flavor of the month can be averted in many ways. Just make it once per account. Allows people to fix their mistakes. And yes, skills you dont use are waste... Heh, just look at someone trying to sell a character on the bazaar... People are always trying to use that as an excuse to bring the price down.
Hey I've got a great idea, skillpoints for aurum, you can have whatever you want...
http://www.reactionface.info/sites/default/files/images/1287666826226.png
In all seriousness, best advice I can give a new player who cannot decide what he wants to fly, install singularity, go to mass tests, CCP reward you with 2 million skillpoints on the test server for you to spend whereever, so put them in something you think you might like, have a try about with it, and if you like it start training on the main server for it, if not use the next 2 million to try something else until a remirror. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14125
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 12:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
No.
You're asking for an SP remap, which is game breaking and completely unnecessary.
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
51
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 12:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jint Hikaru wrote:Why is it always soem 3 moth old player proposing sush game breaking changes like this.
Horrible idea.... go and play the game for at least a year before even thinking about suggesting changes to one of the best things about Eve (The skill system)
I've been playing for 7 years and I think something like this would be fine. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1157
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 12:23:00 -
[24] - Quote
Azrael Dinn wrote:Or when a new player starts to play the game and train for industry and finds out that he wants to shoot people is hes fault that he didn't know the game and wasted a year of training time?
I wanted to address this point, as it also covers the idea of other MMO's. In other MMO's I've played, say I rolled a wizard character. I played awhile, reaching a decent level. But I decided I didn't like playing a wizard. I've never seen a game that says "ok fine, you can change that toon into a Fighter, and retain all of your XP"
No I have to roll a new toon and start again.
Bottom line is I cannot think of any MMO type game that lets you take all your XP and essentially reroll on the fly. Why should EVE?
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Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
51
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 12:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Azrael Dinn wrote:Or when a new player starts to play the game and train for industry and finds out that he wants to shoot people is hes fault that he didn't know the game and wasted a year of training time?
I wanted to address this point, as it also covers the idea of other MMO's. In other MMO's I've played, say I rolled a wizard character. I played awhile, reaching a decent level. But I decided I didn't like playing a wizard. I've never seen a game that says "ok fine, you can change that toon into a Fighter, and retain all of your XP" No I have to roll a new toon and start again. Bottom line is I cannot think of any MMO type game that lets you take all your XP and essentially reroll on the fly. Why should EVE?
Isn't EvE abit different cause there are no classes where you choose from (at least like wizzards and warriors) but just a plank charracter. Your right that you can't get the xp in the case of wizzards and warriors back but you can reset all the skills usualy on the character in other MMOs but if you want to be a fighter then you need to make a new toon. But on that toon you can again reset it's skills if you mess it up. Am I completely wrong?
And I'm not totaly sure how to compare other games to EvE cause the game is so different. |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
26
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 13:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
Azrael Dinn wrote: Isn't EvE abit different cause there are no classes where you choose from (at least like wizzards and warriors) but just a plank charracter. Your right that you can't get the xp in the case of wizzards and warriors back but you can reset all the skills usualy on the character in other MMOs but if you want to be a fighter then you need to make a new toon. But on that toon you can again reset it's skills if you mess it up. Am I completely wrong?
And I'm not totaly sure how to compare other games to EvE cause the game is so different.
SP remap in EvE is an equivalent of class change in other MMOS, so:
Quote:In the case of wizards... if you want to be a fighter then you need to make a new toon. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1157
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 13:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
Azrael Dinn wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:Azrael Dinn wrote:Or when a new player starts to play the game and train for industry and finds out that he wants to shoot people is hes fault that he didn't know the game and wasted a year of training time?
I wanted to address this point, as it also covers the idea of other MMO's. In other MMO's I've played, say I rolled a wizard character. I played awhile, reaching a decent level. But I decided I didn't like playing a wizard. I've never seen a game that says "ok fine, you can change that toon into a Fighter, and retain all of your XP" No I have to roll a new toon and start again. Bottom line is I cannot think of any MMO type game that lets you take all your XP and essentially reroll on the fly. Why should EVE? Isn't EvE abit different cause there are no classes where you choose from (at least like wizzards and warriors) but just a plank charracter. Your right that you can't get the xp in the case of wizzards and warriors back but you can reset all the skills usualy on the character in other MMOs but if you want to be a fighter then you need to make a new toon. But on that toon you can again reset it's skills if you mess it up. Am I completely wrong? And I'm not totaly sure how to compare other games to EvE cause the game is so different.
No it is hard to exactly compare. But the exact comparison isn't the point. The point is the general theme. Bottom line, no MMO that I have ever played would let you do what would the equivalent to a character reroll while retaining all of your accumulated experience. It would be game breaking to the extreme in so many ways. |
Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
51
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 13:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:No it is hard to exactly compare. But the exact comparison isn't the point. The point is the general theme. Bottom line, no MMO that I have ever played would let you do what would the equivalent to a character reroll while retaining all of your accumulated experience. It would be game breaking to the extreme in so many ways.
I don't see it this way. I see Eve's skill points the same as skills in other MMOs and how you have distributed them to the char cause that realy makes the char. Also other MMOs XP I compere to general experience in EvE and the understanding of EvE cause the better you know those the better you are at this game. In other MMOs you just grind up and get top equipment and you don't realy need to think about anything. But this is how I see it and that why I see why CCP should allow us to reset skills in some way. Plus the other things when CCP "fixes" the game and makes some skills pretty useless. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1157
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 13:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
Azrael Dinn wrote:I don't see it this way. I see Eve's skill points the same as skills in other MMOs and how you have distributed them to the char cause that realy makes the char. Also other MMOs XP I compere to general experience in EvE and the understanding of EvE cause the better you know those the better you are at this game. In other MMOs you just grind up and get top equipment and you don't realy need to think about anything. But this is how I see it and that why I see why CCP should allow us to reset skills in some way. Plus the other things when CCP "fixes" the game and makes some skills pretty useless.
Maybe I am missing something. I haven't played many of the more modern "theme park" style MMO's. The ones ive played before you would roll a class. As you get XP you "level". When you level you get points to put into either skills, attributes etc.
In those games you couldnt decide to switch to another class, and then get back all those points you had distributed to then re-distribute with that new class.
This would be as close to a comparison that I can think of. For better or worse, EVE is much more like MMO's of old, than ones of today. Back in the day those MMO's you could make just as many "mistakes" in your point allocation to create a gimped character. MMO's today I guess have dumbed down to the point that this doesn't happen.
Either way, there are so many ways a SP reallocation model of any type would be abused in numerous ways. I can easily think of several without trying very hard.
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Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
51
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Posted - 2013.02.20 14:14:00 -
[30] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Azrael Dinn wrote:I don't see it this way. I see Eve's skill points the same as skills in other MMOs and how you have distributed them to the char cause that realy makes the char. Also other MMOs XP I compere to general experience in EvE and the understanding of EvE cause the better you know those the better you are at this game. In other MMOs you just grind up and get top equipment and you don't realy need to think about anything. But this is how I see it and that why I see why CCP should allow us to reset skills in some way. Plus the other things when CCP "fixes" the game and makes some skills pretty useless. Maybe I am missing something. I haven't played many of the more modern "theme park" style MMO's. The ones ive played before you would roll a class. As you get XP you "level". When you level you get points to put into either skills, attributes etc. In those games you couldnt decide to switch to another class, and then get back all those points you had distributed to then re-distribute with that new class. This would be as close to a comparison that I can think of. For better or worse, EVE is much more like MMO's of old, than ones of today. Back in the day those MMO's you could make just as many "mistakes" in your point allocation to create a gimped character. MMO's today I guess have dumbed down to the point that this doesn't happen. Either way, there are so many ways a SP reallocation model of any type would be abused in numerous ways. I can easily think of several without trying very hard.
It is CCPs problem to balance it and make it unexploitable. I can see many ways how it would anoying and hard. Think about this.
Lets say you could do it once a year. The SP would drop into a SP pool (like the one we the unallocated SPs). If you remove all SP from a skill you will loose that skill and if you want to train it again you would need to accuire the skillbook again. Also all requirements have to be met for the skill you are putting the sp in. You cannot remove just one skill from the middle of somewhere you need to remove the whole skill line then from the top to the place where you are planing it. So no you cannot have all skills in the game with 1sp on each skill you would need to have all the requirements like you need to have now. Now how do you exploit that? |
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