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Captain Ren
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.02.20 11:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Newb here, managed to get my first ransom last night on a pod I found hiding at a planet in lowsec in me trusty Merlin - But it brought up the question, how the hell do I guess how much I should ransom them for!
I've heard others say "Check their history, who their corp is and how long they have been playing", but 1. I have no idea what is considering an "amazing rich corp", and 2. Looking at the guy from last night, he had been playing 9 months.... so how much should I have ransomed him for?
In the end, I just said 10mill, purely because that paid for my next little Merlin, and I was just having fun that I had caught someone! :D
What would you have ransomed him if you were in my position? |
Kuyira
The Littlest Hobos Whores in space
1
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Posted - 2013.02.20 12:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well I think it depends on what he was actually flying as well and how that was fitted (faction or not etc). Judging from that as well as the age of the character and what he was doing with the ship at thetime you caught him, I'd judge on what to ask. I do think 10 million was to little. Most people, especially of that age, have at least a full +3 set, or all agmentation implants except the charisma. The average pod from acharacter of that age will be worth at least 50 mil I would judge.
I think you could have asked 30 to 40 million as well :). You can always start a little higher, sometimes they try and haggle. That's when you know you they got a pod worth something. |
Cannibal Kane
The African Terrorist
1433
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Posted - 2013.02.20 12:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
if you check any sort of KB history they appear to have alot of kills and losses in low or 0.0. Chances of them having an implant is zero.
That being said I popped a -10 pod in highsec the other day with 130mil worth of implants.
So it really is a guessing game. If somebody is very eager to pay 50mil for a pod. Chances are they sporting some heavy goods that makes the 50mil ransom worth it. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
565
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Posted - 2013.02.20 20:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
A set of basic +3 implants cost 50 mil isk. A set of +3% hardwired costs 100 mil isk.
I would say it is safe to assume that the majority of players over a year old, not in a throw away clone sport.the above 150 mil isk pod. So any amount under saves them isk. This is balanced by their belief you will honor the random and how much further they have to go for safety. For example, 40 jumps into nul, i'm not paying a ransom as there is too much chance I will encounter another gate camp ans die. One jump in to low, I'll pay more as relative safety is a jump away.
The older the toon, the higher the chance of high cost implants. Honestly, if i were to guess a formula, 50 mil per year playing eve, adjust downward based on how far they have to go to get to safety. And if they scoff at the initial demand, cut it by 50 mil with 50 mil being near bottom end.
What do more nefarious ner-do-wells think? |
Cable Udan
The Tuskers
142
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Posted - 2013.02.20 22:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
A characters age isn't always in line with their implants (though nine times out of ten it is). If you scram a pod of a new pilot who joined a corp relatively quickly (i.e. a few days into New Eden) then the chances are it's an alt and he quite possibly be packing some decent brain hardware; I once ransomed a one month old pilot whose Merlin I'd just popped (as well as his two year old friend but he got his pod out). Because he was new I ransomed him for 5 mil. Once he'd paid and I let him go and his mate then mentioned in local that he (the one month old) had bought 20 PLEX's and had a full set of +5s as well as some hardwirings. Obviously there was no way to know that at the time so I don't feel too bad about it.
A general rule of thumb I use is 60-80mil for every year they've been playing, give or take. I've also found that a lot of people don't want to pay out because of the amount of asshats who have dishonoured ransoms which is a shame as I always honour them.
- Cable http://chasingtheblueflash.blogspot.com/ My Pirate Blog |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
8066
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 00:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Pop all pods, it's the only way to be sure "Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
Sabriz Adoudel
Resurgent Threat
20
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Posted - 2013.02.21 00:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
If they decline your first offer, fire a volley at them (maybe ungroup guns first). Some people will offer a little more once their 300m capsule is in deep armor. |
Artaire
The Separatist Consortium
11
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Posted - 2013.02.21 23:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Safe guess is to do it based off ship they were flying in before you popped them. If they are flying t1 nab ship and are 2 weeks old you aren't going to get much. Pop a faction cruiser i.e. vigilant and catch his pod and 300mill + is probably a safe bet.
I tend to always do it that way, failing that minimum of 50-100 mill depending on how old the character is :) |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
2855
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Posted - 2013.02.22 02:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
The trick is you've got to offer them little enough that they think it's worth the gamble of you shooting them anyway. Not many people would pay 100 million whether their implants are worth it or not; that's usually just an added expense to them already losing their ship and clone. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement. |
Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
249
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Posted - 2013.02.22 09:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:if you check any sort of KB history they appear to have alot of kills and losses in low or 0.0. Chances of them having an implant is zero.
Wrong.
We usually have a standard 50 million ransom. However, if the victim was piloting a T3 ship, or if he's older than 2010, we might open with 100 millions.
All in all they get quite a good deal. Between the implants (no matter how cheap) and the clone they won't have to buy, they cut their losses considerably.
You always get fun by trying to ransom. Sometimes it's lucrative, sometimes you get people mad. Sometimes people are just plain weird.
When his Tengu had already been ganked and he didn't contact us at all:
Quote: n++[ 2013.02.06 16:29:27 ] Darius Brinn > Ransom? n++[ 2013.02.06 16:29:35 ] Darius Brinn > 150 millions and you're free. n++[ 2013.02.06 16:30:07 ] Darius Brinn > Hello? n++[ 2013.02.06 16:30:12 ] lanmeimei xu > I'll pay for my ship ,not for my egg
So there went almost another billion. What a waste.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=18759277
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
566
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Posted - 2013.02.22 12:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Don't forget to have fun with ramsoms. Get a pilot to sing I'm a little tea pot on voice coms, requiring they purchase and contract to you 10 exotic dancers from all the stations in the region, post their best fukung.net bookmark, and what not can all be worth as much as isk. |
Kuyira
The Littlest Hobos Whores in space
2
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Posted - 2013.02.22 12:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
The biggest issue with ransoming is if the person you're ransoming actually believes you will honor it. Lately I've seen several cases where it wasn't honored and the person still got popped, being it their pod or their ship. This is the reason I never ever will pay a ransom because I might end up losing the ship/pod + extra isk. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
775
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Posted - 2013.02.24 07:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
Noobs can't afford ransom. And nonnoobs won't pay. Only noobs expect you to honor your ransom these days.
The only reason the guy paid your the 10 mil is because it's chump change. He doesn't expect you to honor it anyway, but the amount is so little it's irrelevant. He notices that you're a young noob and decides to humor you. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
734
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Posted - 2013.02.24 11:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Also, remember that buying a new clone for an older char can stack up in price as well. If they want to keep their skillpoints.... 50-65M and up? Haven't had to upgrade in awhile....
Of course, asking such a small ransom is probably doing yourself a disservice. You should start high and if they refuse to pay, pod them and get the Podmail.
If they pay, pod them anyway.
You'll get useful information - because you can 'see their hand' so to speak and understand where they were negotiating from. And you hurt the victim twice as bad and will often get juicy juicy tears.
No, they'll never pay a ransom again, but what are the odds you'll catch him again? He'll just not pay a ransom to some other dude that isn't you, while you'll make bank.
EDIT: This would be made much more interesting if CCP got off their ass and gave implants slight chance of dropping when processing the corpse. Would give them a purpose beyond Grid-Fu and gag-contracts. |
cratais
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
8
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Posted - 2013.02.24 16:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
you may want to make sure the pilot your trying to ransom has implants first because if they are a pilot like me who don't wear implants they will probaly laugh at you. |
Cannibal Kane
The African Terrorist
1444
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Posted - 2013.02.24 17:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Darius Brinn wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:if you check any sort of KB history they appear to have alot of kills and losses in low or 0.0. Chances of them having an implant is zero. Wrong. We usually have a standard 50 million ransom. However, if the victim was piloting a T3 ship, or if he's older than 2010, we might open with 100 millions. All in all they get quite a good deal. Between the implants (no matter how cheap) and the clone they won't have to buy, they cut their losses considerably. You always get fun by trying to ransom. Sometimes it's lucrative, sometimes you get people mad. Sometimes people are just plain weird. When his Tengu had already been ganked and he didn't contact us at all: Quote: n++[ 2013.02.06 16:29:27 ] Darius Brinn > Ransom? n++[ 2013.02.06 16:29:35 ] Darius Brinn > 150 millions and you're free. n++[ 2013.02.06 16:30:07 ] Darius Brinn > Hello? n++[ 2013.02.06 16:30:12 ] lanmeimei xu > I'll pay for my ship ,not for my egg
So there went almost another billion. What a waste. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=18759277
Maybe if you read the rest of my post you might have noticed the part where I mentioned that you do get 0.0 and pirate (-10) characters with expensive implants.
Read before you reply. Silly people only seeing what they want to see. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS |
Joran Dravius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
152
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Posted - 2013.02.24 21:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
Captain Ren wrote:Newb here, managed to get my first ransom last night on a pod I found hiding at a planet in lowsec in me trusty Merlin - But it brought up the question, how the hell do I guess how much I should ransom them for!
I've heard others say "Check their history, who their corp is and how long they have been playing", but 1. I have no idea what is considering an "amazing rich corp", and 2. Looking at the guy from last night, he had been playing 9 months.... so how much should I have ransomed him for?
In the end, I just said 10mill, purely because that paid for my next little Merlin, and I was just having fun that I had caught someone! :D
What would you have ransomed him if you were in my position? Months old multiplied by 2 million, unless he's in a corp I know to be particularly rich or poor or if he's a very old player. At least that was the rule I used before CCP made piracy unprofitable. There's been a lot of inflation since then though. |
Angelique Duchemin
Divine Intentions
7
|
Posted - 2013.02.24 21:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
I always fly around in a set of basic attribute implants and sometimes in the Improved version but if I was ever ransomed I'd self destruct with a billion isk worth of implants before rewarding piracy. Isk is just toy money but personal dignity is real. |
Joran Dravius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
152
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Posted - 2013.02.24 21:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote:I always fly around in a set of basic attribute implants and sometimes in the Improved version but if I was ever ransomed I'd self destruct with a billion isk worth of implants before rewarding piracy. Isk is just toy money but personal dignity is real. You're right. I know I wouldn't want a billion ISK loss on a killmail. |
Angelique Duchemin
Divine Intentions
7
|
Posted - 2013.02.24 21:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
I guess it's my fault for not yet having developed an appreciation for the supposed value of killmails.
I have a few loss mails you can have for free if you like. Just change the names a bit and I'll credit you if anyone asks. There's like three times 120 million in there after me and a dozen beginners attacked a pirate in our banta and Ibis ships. We shaved half the shield off of his Stiletto, causing him to flee to a safe spot to recover.
Granted he came back and killed us but we had fun none the less. That he then flew around the sector flaunting the kill mails actually made me think less of his accomplishment. |
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Joran Dravius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
153
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Posted - 2013.02.24 21:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote:I guess it's my fault for not yet having developed an appreciation for the supposed value of killmails.
I have a few loss mails you can have for free if you like. Just change the names a bit and I'll credit you if anyone asks. There's like three times 120 million in there after me and a dozen beginners attacked a pirate in our banta and Ibis ships. We shaved half the shield off of his Stiletto, causing him to flee to a safe spot to recover.
Granted he came back and killed us but we had fun none the less. That he then flew around the sector flaunting the kill mails actually made me think less of his accomplishment. No thanks. And for the record, I don't care much about killmails. In that particular case i'd be scared to death people would think I was a permanent high sec resident though.
Cable Udan wrote: I've also found that a lot of people don't want to pay out because of the amount of asshats who have dishonoured ransoms which is a shame as I always honour them. I agree completely. Like I said before in another thread, I think it's the worst behavior in Eve. If you kill someone it only hurts them. If you steal their stuff it only hurts them. If you don't honor a ransom it hurts every pirate in Eve. |
Xylorn Hasher
Sumiyoshi-Kai
99
|
Posted - 2013.02.24 22:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:if you check any sort of KB history they appear to have alot of kills and losses in low or 0.0. Chances of them having an implant is zero.
That being said I popped a -10 pod in highsec the other day with 130mil worth of implants. So you will get 0.0 players with expensive implants as well.
So it really is a guessing game. If somebody is very eager to pay 50mil for a pod. Chances are they sporting some heavy goods that makes the 50mil ransom worth it.
EDIT: Bolded for blind people
Hmm... Then what is this and this and this or this ?
Shall I continue? I have 440 more podkills to show if you like.
As for ransoming PODs I use 200m base + 100m ISK for every 6 months in game formula.
All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana-áconsumption. |
Niveuss Nye
The Advent of Faith
20
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Posted - 2013.02.25 17:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lol....
Since when has anyone ransomed? I have never seen it happen.
Most of the time when I am out in low sec, they just start shooting hoping to kill me before I can warp my pod off when that happens.
Not sure I would trust anyone like that either even if I was traveling around with tons of implants. They would probably take the cash then pod me then I would be out double.
Why would I want them to profit from an already bad situation for me if I am that unfortunate/ make bad decision/ am out piloted? |
Xylorn Hasher
Sumiyoshi-Kai
99
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Posted - 2013.02.25 22:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
Niveuss Nye wrote:Lol....
Since when has anyone ransomed? I have never seen it happen.
Most of the time when I am out in low sec, they just start shooting hoping to kill me before I can warp my pod off when that happens.
Not sure I would trust anyone like that either even if I was traveling around with tons of implants. They would probably take the cash then pod me then I would be out double.
Why would I want them to profit from an already bad situation for me if I am that unfortunate/ make bad decision/ am out piloted?
If you have 4 Billion ISK implants set in your head paying 300-500m is acceptable risk. Personally I always let people go if they pay me ransome. However I never ransome on gate, so if you were caught there - you will be shot on sight. Another thing is, for many Pirates its not worth to take less than 100m ISK ransome killmail is often better choice. All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana-áconsumption. |
Niveuss Nye
The Advent of Faith
21
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Posted - 2013.02.25 23:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
Xylorn Hasher wrote:Niveuss Nye wrote:Lol....
Since when has anyone ransomed? I have never seen it happen.
Most of the time when I am out in low sec, they just start shooting hoping to kill me before I can warp my pod off when that happens.
Not sure I would trust anyone like that either even if I was traveling around with tons of implants. They would probably take the cash then pod me then I would be out double.
Why would I want them to profit from an already bad situation for me if I am that unfortunate/ make bad decision/ am out piloted? If you have 4 Billion ISK implants set in your head paying 300-500m is acceptable risk. Personally I always let people go if they pay me ransome. However I never ransome on gate, so if you were caught there - you will be shot on sight. Another thing is, for many Pirates its not worth to take less than 100m ISK ransome killmail is often better choice.
Precisely. Kill mail> Money.
Most of the ones I know and talk to usually have an alt somewhere making the actual isk. The kill mail means much, much more to them. You and I both know out here in low sec tears> everything else to 90 percent of all pirates at least in my neck of the woods. They have no reason to honor ANYTHING.
Hell, I would get giddy too with that kind of kill mail. Getting 100 mill on top? You are a rarity. Most of the pirates I know shoot first then there is a "gf" in local if I get away, chase them off, I get lucky, or get killed.. They never talk. Niether do I till afterwards. |
Disastro
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
56
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Posted - 2013.02.26 12:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
Captain Ren wrote:Newb here, managed to get my first ransom last night on a pod I found hiding at a planet in lowsec in me trusty Merlin - But it brought up the question, how the hell do I guess how much I should ransom them for!
I've heard others say "Check their history, who their corp is and how long they have been playing", but 1. I have no idea what is considering an "amazing rich corp", and 2. Looking at the guy from last night, he had been playing 9 months.... so how much should I have ransomed him for?
In the end, I just said 10mill, purely because that paid for my next little Merlin, and I was just having fun that I had caught someone! :D
What would you have ransomed him if you were in my position?
Age of toon, security status and the likelihood that he would have valuable implants in the first place usually are the best guides. A one month old toon isnt going to have any valuable implants (very likely anyway. it could happen. Could be an alt). A guy who is -10 may or may not have valuable implants in. But a guy who is +5 is very likely to have valuable implants.
What is valuable in the way of implants? A full set of +5s maybe or perhaps some mining or mission type implants. Perhaps leadership type things.
A guy who has a full set of plus 5s might be willing to pay 50 to avoid losing them. Maybe more. A guy who flies around in plus 2s prob wont want to pay anything to avoid podding.
Basically you need to make it cheap enough that it is worth their while. And its all a guess. You really dont know what anyone else has in the way of implants. I mean you could run a check on kb perhaps and see what pods he has lost in the past but generally you dont wanna be waiting that long. The guy might get back to gate or some other predator may happen along while you are holding the pod. |
Skarned
Inroads
15
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Posted - 2013.02.27 03:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
Snakes and Slaves are often easiest to spot.
If you suspect Slaves, check the KM for total HP. Unless you're outright ganking, you can make a pretty good guess whether slaves and a legion are involved mid-fight.
For Snakes, watch for ludicrous speed.
Otherwise, the <100m bounty advice is sound, adjusted downward for char age. People generally expect to be podded whether they pay or not, best to keep it low so they will consider it. Also, keep in mind that many folks out there will have at least 2 +3 implants in their head no matter where they are or what theyGÇÖre doing; nullsec cannon fodder excluded. |
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